No stam-regen while blocking killed stam-tanks in PvE

Lancillotto · December 2015

I have a stamina tank and I think that the removal of stamina regeneration while blocking is making things really hard for tanks in PvE.
Unlike magicka, stamina is used for many things: blocking, interrupting, dodge-rolling, attacking, buffing... if now you can't regenerate stamina while blocking, things get really hard. I understand the cost for blocking a hit, but was removal of stamina regen during blocking really necessary?

Perhaps blocking while attacking shouldn't be allowed, you either attack or block, and that could be the right penalty for blocking.

I wonder if this penalty was introduced because people in PvP would turtle up and keep blocking forever, making themselves immune to CC, and spam attacks left and right, but PvE should work differently. In PvP you get a series of buffs and debuffs to adjust for the different mechanics, would it be possible to do the same with blocking?

So, what I suggest would be: keep the no-stam-regen while blocking in PvP, but remove it in PvE.
Alternatively, make attacking impossible while blocking both in PvP and PvE and remove the stam-regen penalty in both.

My tank can't even solo a bunch of wasps in Craglorn any more... and he used to eat them for breakfast before the last patch. I think dungeons are also much harder now for stamina tanks.

Praeficere · December 2015

In my experience, from playing with and playing it myself, Stamina tanks are perfectly as they were in previous patches. Practically no difference. Good practise for you, you can start weaving in heavy attacks between enemy attacks. As I see it, you're in a low-damage tank setup trying to kill a bunch of mobs on your own while blocking and using stamina damage abilities at the same time. The fact that your damage is low means that more stamina is needed to kill them. Just try letting go of that block, use it only for enemy heavy attacks.

TiberX · December 2015

No it didn't

I have a stamina tank, tanked all content ICP,WGT,COA vet ofc , all fine for me , no stam issues. Don't even need shards.

HeroOfNone · December 2015

I don't have too much issue, but my build is made to be low block and generate ultimate to keep up resources. Typically I'll only block when needed.

Other builds rely on block I ng with heavy attacks weaved in and high magicka regen + DK earthen heart abilities to regen their stamina while blocking most of the time.

What class and level are you looking at tanking? You may need to adjust your tactics.

Wollust · December 2015

I started tanking dungeons and stuff with the IC update.. And it's already easy as hell. At least all the dungeons. Resource management? Pop a potion, block intelligent, use a heavy attack, ultimate and helping hands as a DK, siphoning attacks as a NB, spearshard and repentance from your healer.
There is many ways to keep the stamina up, even with no regen.

I really don't think the change affects PvE much. But I dislike the change as well mainly because of PvP, where blocking is just incredibly draining nowadays. I'd love to have back stam regen while blocking, but certainly not because PvE content is too difficult without.

Btw, there were still CC that went through block in PvP. Tanks were certainly not the biggest issue in PvP, which is why I don't believe PvP to be the reason for this change.
And I'm not sure, but I think I read on reddit they didn't want to make tanking just an easy going job of holding block and applying taunt. i might be wrong there though.

And well.. I don't want to be mean, but if you can't solo a bunch of wasps in craglorn, you might need some more practice..

Nifty2g · December 2015

You can't solo a wasp pack? Sounds like you are geared completely wrong, it really isn't that difficult as for the new dungeons I was the tank in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trNzbwuc5yU

Van_0S · December 2015

Lancillotto wrote: »

I have a stamina tank and I think that the removal of stamina regeneration while blocking is making things really hard for tanks in PvE.
Unlike magicka, stamina is used for many things: blocking, interrupting, dodge-rolling, attacking, buffing... if now you can't regenerate stamina while blocking, things get really hard. I understand the cost for blocking a hit, but was removal of stamina regen during blocking really necessary?

Perhaps blocking while attacking shouldn't be allowed, you either attack or block, and that could be the right penalty for blocking.

I wonder if this penalty was introduced because people in PvP would turtle up and keep blocking forever, making themselves immune to CC, and spam attacks left and right, but PvE should work differently. In PvP you get a series of buffs and debuffs to adjust for the different mechanics, would it be possible to do the same with blocking?

So, what I suggest would be: keep the no-stam-regen while blocking in PvP, but remove it in PvE.
Alternatively, make attacking impossible while blocking both in PvP and PvE and remove the stam-regen penalty in both.

My tank can't even solo a bunch of wasps in Craglorn any more... and he used to eat them for breakfast before the last patch. I think dungeons are also much harder now for stamina tanks.

Your only solution is to be a magicka tank.

Edit: or farm CP by being a stamina DPS for a short time.

Leon119 · December 2015

i completed SO as a stamina tank with random tanking sets i had from previous patches since i didnt craft a vr16 set (3 eternal yokeda, 5 pariah, 2 blood spawn, 2 resilient yokeda ).
its not the stam regen at fault here its you

Shader_Shibes · December 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

You can't solo a wasp pack? Sounds like you are geared completely wrong, it really isn't that difficult as for the new dungeons I was the tank in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trNzbwuc5yU

Does Swaggasm use macros? Just his Whip/medium attack weave looks very mechanical.

Not bothered just curious.

Nifty2g · December 2015

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

You can't solo a wasp pack? Sounds like you are geared completely wrong, it really isn't that difficult as for the new dungeons I was the tank in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trNzbwuc5yU

Does Swaggasm use macros? Just his Whip/medium attack weave looks very mechanical.

Not bothered just curious.

nah, light attacks btw
the stutter you see would be from the ping, since we both play on 280+ ping, if you want your light attacks to hit on something like this you need to wait a bit, it's odd timing for the weaving that you get used to

robkrush · December 2015

You are correct. The no stam regen is BS. I much preferred tanking before. I switched to DPS and haven't looked back.

daemonios · December 2015

I don't know about soloing (but tank gear was never good for soloing, do I'd get myself full DPS gear for that). In PvE dungeons the no stamina regen does make you have to watch your resources, but it's not hard and certainly not impossible.

My tank is still running with VR14 gear and I've tanked every single dungeon at VR16, including WGT and ICP hard modes. Don't perma-block, use skills that give you stamina back, ask your healer for shards if he's a templar.

eliisra · December 2015

Bosses these days dies so fast because of CP and power stacked dps, you also take less dmg because of CP.

In most cases you wont even have time to run out of stamina before a boss is down.You could probably still tank most VR dungeons in light armor, because ESO PvE

Bosses also do a lot of other things, besides hitting the tank with 25k heavy attacks. They channel, drop AoE on the ground, place random DoTs, talk smack or summon some add. If you use audio and visuals, you know when it's safe to drop block and regen stam or use a heavy attack. So generally speaking, it's not a big deal.

But I kinda agree that "no stam regen while blocking" hurts stamina tanks more. Magicka tanks always have their main attribute regen up and going, even when blocking. It's not the most balanced solution. Pretty much all 2.1 blanket nerfs creates imbalance between builds/classes in difference ways.

kongkim · December 2015

Nah it's fine you just need to adjust your build and play style for it and not get stuck on old ways.

NBrookus · December 2015

I've adjusted but it sure took all the fun out of tanking.

Vangy · December 2015

The only issue I had with tanking post patch is that I was running a sub par tank set up due to my main being DPS. I could just swap some gear and walla, I was a perfectly viable tank. Now though thats out the window. You need dedicated CPs, proper gear set up with proper enchants etc. I run 5H/1m/1L imperial DK for tanking. 5 Armor master, 2 engin, 2 seducer with footmans jewellery. Ive got some pretty sick reduced block cost due to CP, with reduced magicka and stamian costs. The problem is, I had to swap so much to go from tank to DPS. 3 K for CP, sometimes i need to reset some skills (12k++), and tanking just burns through tri pots. So eventually I shelved tanking lol and went full dps. I do have a sorc for dps and heals and she dosent need all that much maintenance. She face rolls with DPS and just need to swap skills around for healing. No cp reset and minimal gear swaps needed.

In short, just dont try to run a sub par tank (ie makeshift tank) while being specced into DPS for CP and gear etc. You need a dedicated tank to be able to effectively take on the new content. Pre patch it was very much possible to run a gimmicky tank build with your cps thrown around everywhere with non optimal gear that is better suited for dps than tanking, but now you cant do that.

shugg · December 2015

TiberX wrote: »

No it didn't I have a stamina tank, tanked all content ICP,WGT,COA vet ofc , all fine for me , no stam issues. Don't even need shards.

Agree, i have done the same - its not as fun as before - i have also tanked all content in my 2h tanking build no issurs

Digiman · December 2015

It wasn't really in PvP that was the problem, I think ZoS realized that all Tanks had to do is stack stamina regen to cheese through content.

I would garner a guess that your setup seemed to capitalize it, like most patches that stuff was changed. It's not just Tank roles that have gone through the ringer DPS and healing have had drastic changes to them also forcing players to weave heavy attacks for resources.

It sounds like you need to relearn your class like the rest of us.

Destyran · December 2015

Why couldnt they just tac it on to the *** battle spirit passive lol to make it pvp only

Wollust · December 2015

Destyran wrote: »

Why couldnt they just tac it on to the *** battle spirit passive lol to make it pvp only

Because the whole thing is not about PvP but rather about the PvE side

Justice31st · December 2015

Get the engine guardian set.

Shader_Shibes · December 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

You can't solo a wasp pack? Sounds like you are geared completely wrong, it really isn't that difficult as for the new dungeons I was the tank in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trNzbwuc5yU

Does Swaggasm use macros? Just his Whip/medium attack weave looks very mechanical.

Not bothered just curious.

nah, light attacks btw
the stutter you see would be from the ping, since we both play on 280+ ping, if you want your light attacks to hit on something like this you need to wait a bit, it's odd timing for the weaving that you get used to

Ahh ok, so that's why, Never seen the animation like that before. Must suck having to play with that ping, but doesn't seem to bother you guys one bit, hat's off. I find it absurd they don't have a Oceanic server.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO · December 2015

With a nightblade stam tank, I can say with certainty that OP was wrong

, the 'light' attacks of most anything is tankable with PASSIVE mitigation. The new syphoning attacks is neutered for tanks, but I'll forgive the change for what it did to my DPS. Basically I can do most boss fights by light attack weaving through my buffs, blocking only when necessary. Then when [snip] hits the fan, I've got full stamina, full magicka 3 self heal DoTs ticking all at once 20% dodge chance and probably enough ultimate to drop a veil while I sit there holding block and being practically immortal.

Helgi_Skotina · December 2015

Stam regen in blocj brings in permablock - with good stam recovery it can be really forever and a player who permablocks cant be killed fast. So o recovery is a good idea.