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Damage VS Defense
Forestd16b14_ESO
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OK at this point it's pretty sure to say the whole HA thing is basically a dead horse now and sure players wanna say "stop beating it". But thing is we can't despite the horse being dead we can't. As PVP has show that HA is just totally useless and even starting to be outclassed in pve by of course damage shields because there the only defense in this game that can actually stand up to the ridicules amount of damage some players can achieve.
Like I'm sure some one can do the math for me and show the level of damage some players can achieve and with how HA is there is no way the defense of HA can compete against it either though HA is suppose to offer the best defense in the game that clearly isn't the case and even if a player get to the "good level" that so many other player have said about HA you know full golden vr16 with 400+ CP they still need damage shields to absorb the damage player can deal.
Sorry ranting I know very long story short HA either needs to be buffed to have the same level of defense compared to the level of damage a player can get or the other option which would of course "cheese" off alot of players and damage comes down to the same level as defense is on cause how it is now there is just this giant gap that is making HA just totally useless cause HA defense can not compare to damage or damage shields.
So @ZOS can you guys please find a way to make HA more than a cosmetic item and maybe add in some decent tank sets. Like really ? Trial by fire? Really ????
Like I'm sure some one can do the math for me and show the level of damage some players can achieve and with how HA is there is no way the defense of HA can compete against it either though HA is suppose to offer the best defense in the game that clearly isn't the case and even if a player get to the "good level" that so many other player have said about HA you know full golden vr16 with 400+ CP they still need damage shields to absorb the damage player can deal.
Sorry ranting I know very long story short HA either needs to be buffed to have the same level of defense compared to the level of damage a player can get or the other option which would of course "cheese" off alot of players and damage comes down to the same level as defense is on cause how it is now there is just this giant gap that is making HA just totally useless cause HA defense can not compare to damage or damage shields.
So @ZOS can you guys please find a way to make HA more than a cosmetic item and maybe add in some decent tank sets. Like really ? Trial by fire? Really ????
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Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Heavy Armor increases your Passive Defenses. The biggest issue with it is most players use abilities and builds that directly counter those defenses (Penetration).
That said I know some players who use heavy armor who wreck others as much as anyone else. I'm pretty sure Sabre Ali won a 1 v 1 tournament using Reactive Armor.
Heavy Armor could use some tweaks for sure but to call it "totally useless" is being melodramatic.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Heavy Armor increases your Passive Defenses. The biggest issue with it is most players use abilities and builds that directly counter those defenses (Penetration).
That said I know some players who use heavy armor who wreck others as much as anyone else. I'm pretty sure Sabre Ali won a 1 v 1 tournament using Reactive Armor.
Heavy Armor could use some tweaks for sure but to call it "totally useless" is being melodramatic.
Perhaps but again HA can only "wreck others" as you said as I said at full golden vr 16 wit 400+ CP. Not every single HA user has that.
Look how it stands is any one can slap on LA or MA they literally just got from killing a NPC doesn't have to be a set and can take full advantage of the armors passives and still win while HA has to be at vr16 gold level and have to have 400+ CP to make up for the damage and resource management LA and MA offer and even then that 25K+ res goes down the drain due to penetration effects and players easily getting 3k+ damage with out buffs or so I hear.
So yes some players can make HA goddess like and wreck other players but they have to put alot of gold, materials, and CP into it while LA and MA just requires you to just wear it. That's the problem here.
HA needs buffed simple and it's skill needs re-worked to to actually benefit HA users instead of MA users.0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Heavy Armor increases your Passive Defenses. The biggest issue with it is most players use abilities and builds that directly counter those defenses (Penetration).
That said I know some players who use heavy armor who wreck others as much as anyone else. I'm pretty sure Sabre Ali won a 1 v 1 tournament using Reactive Armor.
Heavy Armor could use some tweaks for sure but to call it "totally useless" is being melodramatic.
Perhaps but again HA can only "wreck others" as you said as I said at full golden vr 16 wit 400+ CP. Not every single HA user has that.
Look how it stands is any one can slap on LA or MA they literally just got from killing a NPC doesn't have to be a set and can take full advantage of the armors passives and still win while HA has to be at vr16 gold level and have to have 400+ CP to make up for the damage and resource management LA and MA offer and even then that 25K+ res goes down the drain due to penetration effects and players easily getting 3k+ damage with out buffs or so I hear.
So yes some players can make HA goddess like and wreck other players but they have to put alot of gold, materials, and CP into it while LA and MA just requires you to just wear it. That's the problem here.
HA needs buffed simple and it's skill needs re-worked to to actually benefit HA users instead of MA users.
The issue is if you buff it then those players already enjoying great success with it are going to become that much stronger. High CPs open up build possibilities for all armor wearers not just Heavy. If I wasn't at CP cap there is no way I'd have the sustain necessary to run with zero magicka regen on my gear or enchants. I'd have to completely rework my build to account for other weaknesses.
What they really need to do is make it so that the 5pc heavy armor passive makes your stamina regen 50% while blocking. I think something along those lines would make it far more desirable and useful without making it too powerful.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube4 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The thing is heavy armour can only mitigate 50% of the damage, 50% mitigation isn't much when players are dishing out two or three skill combo's which can kill players.
They need to find a way to make the skill line of heavy armour offer far stronger defences without the base armour mitigation itself being made stronger otherwise it becomes too strong.
That's my thoughts any way.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
SturgeHammer✭✭✭✭I wouldn't mind seeing a small version of the Reactive Armor effect tacked onto a heavy armor passive, maybe .5%/1% bonus damage mitigation per piece while cc'ed.First-in-Line - Swings-for-Lethal
Green-Thumb - Scale-Factor
Hist-Tree-Major - A-Late-One
Needs-Some-Help - Dead-Last0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Passive health regen in PvP is silly bad.
Instead of an already nerfed and unusable resource passive, how about (like the other sets) a passive that modifies damage? Both light armor and medium armor increase the damage to their respective source, it would make sense if heavy armor had a mitigation passive that does not simply add to the armor rating (as there is a cap, a passive adding to armor rating is meh at best) a damage mitigator beyond the armor rating would actually make HA playable.0 -
I would love to see a passive that requires 5 piece heavy that was like "reduces damage taken by x for each piece equipped". Or even just a flat % regardless of how many pieces. -5% or -10% damage is a big boost without changing the way armor works and the 5piece requirement makes you dedicate to receive the benefit.0 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Passive health regen in PvP is silly bad.
Instead of an already nerfed and unusable resource passive, how about (like the other sets) a passive that modifies damage? Both light armor and medium armor increase the damage to their respective source, it would make sense if heavy armor had a mitigation passive that does not simply add to the armor rating (as there is a cap, a passive adding to armor rating is meh at best) a damage mitigator beyond the armor rating would actually make HA playable.
They already have that and ZOS calls it reduce block cost by 20% ..... yea0 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The thing is heavy armour can only mitigate 50% of the damage, 50% mitigation isn't much when players are dishing out two or three skill combo's which can kill players.
They need to find a way to make the skill line of heavy armour offer far stronger defences without the base armour mitigation itself being made stronger otherwise it becomes too strong.
That's my thoughts any way.
They need to make the armor good with out making blocking OP like it was a week or 2 after PC launch. Yea kinda one of the reasons HA got nerf so bad to begin with cause of course players abused it and players block casting fire ring and impulse and bat swarms didn't help either.0 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The thing is heavy armour can only mitigate 50% of the damage, 50% mitigation isn't much when players are dishing out two or three skill combo's which can kill players.
They need to find a way to make the skill line of heavy armour offer far stronger defences without the base armour mitigation itself being made stronger otherwise it becomes too strong.
That's my thoughts any way.
To me the problem seems to be that armor penetration comes without any downsides (mace + sharpened + CPs) while you need to sacrifice a lot to get high armor rating.
I think armor/spell penetration needs to be looked at (again), it might be easier to balance if it were percentage based like crits.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer0 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »The thing is heavy armour can only mitigate 50% of the damage, 50% mitigation isn't much when players are dishing out two or three skill combo's which can kill players.
They need to find a way to make the skill line of heavy armour offer far stronger defences without the base armour mitigation itself being made stronger otherwise it becomes too strong.
That's my thoughts any way.
To me the problem seems to be that armor penetration comes without any downsides (mace + sharpened + CPs) while you need to sacrifice a lot to get high armor rating.
I think armor/spell penetration needs to be looked at (again), it might be easier to balance if it were percentage based like crits.
Well as I said in my other HA post http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/225175/heavy-armor-needs-buffed-already/p1 I suggested a passive that increases penetration effects cause as far as I know you can block damage can reduce crit damage but you can not block or reduce penetration damage.
Why I love penetration effects but at they same time hate it.0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We need a passive that you regenerate stamina while blocking - 50% or another passive while blocking you regenerate stamina but your spell power and weapon power are decreased with 80%.Because I can!0 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We need a passive that you regenerate stamina while blocking - 50% or another passive while blocking you regenerate stamina but your spell power and weapon power are decreased with 80%.
Maybe but IMO will stamina Regen while blocking solve anything for HA you're just delaying stuff longer plus pretty sure a player can drain your stamina faster than that 1000 something stamina Regen can restore every 2 seconds. Reason it's called DPS and not DE2S (damage every 2 seconds) after all.0 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭Heavy Armor increases your Passive Defenses. The biggest issue with it is most players use abilities and builds that directly counter those defenses (Penetration).
That said I know some players who use heavy armor who wreck others as much as anyone else. I'm pretty sure Sabre Ali won a 1 v 1 tournament using Reactive Armor.
Heavy Armor could use some tweaks for sure but to call it "totally useless" is being melodramatic.
But that has nothing to do with heavy armor v.s other armor types. It's the 5 piece bonus of Reactive that's ridiculously powerful especially 1v1, since you cant burst down players wearing it, after you cc them. If the set came in light or medium, would be even better.
Been a different story if the guy used another heavy set and won the tournament.
But I dont think heavy is useless either, it's good for PvE tanking at least
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Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »We need a passive that you regenerate stamina while blocking - 50% or another passive while blocking you regenerate stamina but your spell power and weapon power are decreased with 80%.
Maybe but IMO will stamina Regen while blocking solve anything for HA you're just delaying stuff longer plus pretty sure a player can drain your stamina faster than that 1000 something stamina Regen can restore every 2 seconds. Reason it's called DPS and not DE2S (damage every 2 seconds) after all.
Then passive that increase the cap to 75% when you wear 5 or more pieces heavy armor or 5% more per 1 piece.
Also as the other stated players do not need special gear for penetration. They just equip 1 weapon and the rest are passives.Because I can!0 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Heavy Armor increases your Passive Defenses. The biggest issue with it is most players use abilities and builds that directly counter those defenses (Penetration).
That said I know some players who use heavy armor who wreck others as much as anyone else. I'm pretty sure Sabre Ali won a 1 v 1 tournament using Reactive Armor.
Heavy Armor could use some tweaks for sure but to call it "totally useless" is being melodramatic.
But that has nothing to do with heavy armor v.s other armor types. It's the 5 piece bonus of Reactive that's ridiculously powerful especially 1v1, since you cant burst down players wearing it, after you cc them. If the set came in light or medium, would be even better.
Been a different story if the guy used another heavy set and won the tournament.
But I dont think heavy is useless either, it's good for PvE tanking at least
If reactive came in light or med then PVP be super broken cause if CC and CC immunity wasn't broken enough as it was.0
