Erondil wrote: »

here are how sieges are being used atm... dont want to imagine how it will be next patch. Help smaller groups a lot indeed.

Erondil wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @Turelus @Xsorus here are how sieges are being used atm... dont want to imagine how it will be next patch. Help smaller groups a lot indeed.

Morostyle wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @Turelus @Xsorus here are how sieges are being used atm... dont want to imagine how it will be next patch. Help smaller groups a lot indeed.

I'm not sure why you guys posted these videos? They don't actually show siege being very effective? Are you saying if it had been changed you guys would of been wiped?

Didn't post the video for the sake of the Sieges - I actually didnt really notice how much they siege a 8-11 man group
I think Erodil henced to the thread - due to people keep saying, that pugs/zergs NEVER use sieges

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Morostyle wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @Turelus @Xsorus here are how sieges are being used atm... dont want to imagine how it will be next patch. Help smaller groups a lot indeed.

I'm not sure why you guys posted these videos? They don't actually show siege being very effective? Are you saying if it had been changed you guys would of been wiped?

Didn't post the video for the sake of the Sieges - I actually didnt really notice how much they siege a 8-11 man group
I think Erodil henced to the thread - due to people keep saying, that pugs/zergs NEVER use sieges

Ahh..I was confused there..Pugs use siege... Its just not very effective

Well basically at the end of the first video you can see sieges everywhere,and its the reason we wiped.

I think you wiped more had to do with you getting hit by another large group; oh and the fact you all were standing on a flag instead of clearing the area.

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Morostyle wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @Turelus @Xsorus here are how sieges are being used atm... dont want to imagine how it will be next patch. Help smaller groups a lot indeed.

I'm not sure why you guys posted these videos? They don't actually show siege being very effective? Are you saying if it had been changed you guys would of been wiped?

Didn't post the video for the sake of the Sieges - I actually didnt really notice how much they siege a 8-11 man group
I think Erodil henced to the thread - due to people keep saying, that pugs/zergs NEVER use sieges

Ahh..I was confused there..Pugs use siege... Its just not very effective

Well basically at the end of the first video you can see sieges everywhere,and its the reason we wiped.

I think you wiped more had to do with you getting hit by another large group; oh and the fact you all were standing on a flag instead of clearing the area.

Why were we standing on the flag?Because otherwise the outpost would have flipped. Thats the game mechanics and thats the main reason unpurgeable meatbag will be terrible for us. We cant totally clear everything or they would have flipped the keep just by being many. And even if we did, they would have all ressed in our back (its another problem). The size of the group we faced is not really a problem alone, we kill groups of this size everyday, the problem is they can put sieges everywhere and ress everybody while we cant spare members to camp corpses/clear sieges/put sieges.

And that's the problem..you've decided that you should be able to stand on a flag and fight overwhelming odds while being hit by siege and it not be a problem...

Which is weird; cause I think back to DAOC when there were hib or alb groups on Bled Bridge in that game camping it...I'd set up like 8 or 9 Catapults and just pelt them through the walls mind you...over and over again interrupting them so they couldn't even cast a heal.... and like none of them expected to live from it..There were no posts on the forums about it... They just accepted that camping that spot didn't work out cause I was there.

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Morostyle wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @Turelus @Xsorus here are how sieges are being used atm... dont want to imagine how it will be next patch. Help smaller groups a lot indeed.

I'm not sure why you guys posted these videos? They don't actually show siege being very effective? Are you saying if it had been changed you guys would of been wiped?

Didn't post the video for the sake of the Sieges - I actually didnt really notice how much they siege a 8-11 man group
I think Erodil henced to the thread - due to people keep saying, that pugs/zergs NEVER use sieges

Ahh..I was confused there..Pugs use siege... Its just not very effective

Well basically at the end of the first video you can see sieges everywhere,and its the reason we wiped.

I think you wiped more had to do with you getting hit by another large group; oh and the fact you all were standing on a flag instead of clearing the area.

Why were we standing on the flag?Because otherwise the outpost would have flipped. Thats the game mechanics and thats the main reason unpurgeable meatbag will be terrible for us. We cant totally clear everything or they would have flipped the keep just by being many. And even if we did, they would have all ressed in our back (its another problem). The size of the group we faced is not really a problem alone, we kill groups of this size everyday, the problem is they can put sieges everywhere and ress everybody while we cant spare members to camp corpses/clear sieges/put sieges.

And that's the problem..you've decided that you should be able to stand on a flag and fight overwhelming odds while being hit by siege and it not be a problem...

Which is weird; cause I think back to DAOC when there were hib or alb groups on Bled Bridge in that game camping it...I'd set up like 8 or 9 Catapults and just pelt them through the walls mind you...over and over again interrupting them so they couldn't even cast a heal.... and like none of them expected to live from it..There were no posts on the forums about it... They just accepted that camping that spot didn't work out cause I was there.

How are we supposed to keep the outpost then? Arent you admitting right there that sieges help outnumbering side in a keep defence ,and it will goes even worse after the change?

What makes you think you're suppose to keep the outpost? and siege will most certainly help the outnumbering side in keep defense. But its not the reason you died in that fight..you died because you stacked up on a small area and expected to live. It will also get worse after the patch if you continue to do that as well.

I mean I can tell you exactly where you lost that fight

12:20 seconds in the video...Your groups runs by a bunch of people on siege..and instead of clearing them real quick and setting it on fire..Which would of taken all by 10 to 20 seconds...you ran in and tried to bomb people on the flag..and got killed for it...Yes its possible they would of taken the keep while you were doing that..But at the same time you would of cleared the siege and been able to clear out the enemy before retaking the keep (Since the walls don't auto repair)

You basically tried utilizing stacking in a spot with multiple AOEs to live..when in reality..you shouldn't expect to live...

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Morostyle wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @Turelus @Xsorus here are how sieges are being used atm... dont want to imagine how it will be next patch. Help smaller groups a lot indeed.

I'm not sure why you guys posted these videos? They don't actually show siege being very effective? Are you saying if it had been changed you guys would of been wiped?

Didn't post the video for the sake of the Sieges - I actually didnt really notice how much they siege a 8-11 man group
I think Erodil henced to the thread - due to people keep saying, that pugs/zergs NEVER use sieges

Ahh..I was confused there..Pugs use siege... Its just not very effective

Well basically at the end of the first video you can see sieges everywhere,and its the reason we wiped.

I think you wiped more had to do with you getting hit by another large group; oh and the fact you all were standing on a flag instead of clearing the area.

Why were we standing on the flag?Because otherwise the outpost would have flipped. Thats the game mechanics and thats the main reason unpurgeable meatbag will be terrible for us. We cant totally clear everything or they would have flipped the keep just by being many. And even if we did, they would have all ressed in our back (its another problem). The size of the group we faced is not really a problem alone, we kill groups of this size everyday, the problem is they can put sieges everywhere and ress everybody while we cant spare members to camp corpses/clear sieges/put sieges.

And that's the problem..you've decided that you should be able to stand on a flag and fight overwhelming odds while being hit by siege and it not be a problem...

Which is weird; cause I think back to DAOC when there were hib or alb groups on Bled Bridge in that game camping it...I'd set up like 8 or 9 Catapults and just pelt them through the walls mind you...over and over again interrupting them so they couldn't even cast a heal.... and like none of them expected to live from it..There were no posts on the forums about it... They just accepted that camping that spot didn't work out cause I was there.

How are we supposed to keep the outpost then? Arent you admitting right there that sieges help outnumbering side in a keep defence ,and it will goes even worse after the change?

What makes you think you're suppose to keep the outpost? and siege will most certainly help the outnumbering side in keep defense. But its not the reason you died in that fight..you died because you stacked up on a small area and expected to live. It will also get worse after the patch if you continue to do that as well.

I mean I can tell you exactly where you lost that fight

12:20 seconds in the video...Your groups runs by a bunch of people on siege..and instead of clearing them real quick and setting it on fire..Which would of taken all by 10 to 20 seconds...you ran in and tried to bomb people on the flag..and got killed for it...Yes its possible they would of taken the keep while you were doing that..But at the same time you would of cleared the siege and been able to clear out the enemy before retaking the keep (Since the walls don't auto repair)

You basically tried utilizing stacking in a spot with multiple AOEs to live..when in reality..you shouldn't expect to live...

If you think let the keep turns and retake it would have been easier, you're pretty naive or never played in such group agaisnt such numbers. People would have have ressed everytime we go to another place (another issue that needs to be looked at) and put sieges everywhere. We would have never been able to turn the flags back,especially considering the npc respawn and the duration of the fight (most of us were almost oom at this point).

It would of been hell of a lot easier then stacking in a small enclosed area and eating multiple AOEs

Sanct16 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Morostyle wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @Turelus @Xsorus here are how sieges are being used atm... dont want to imagine how it will be next patch. Help smaller groups a lot indeed.

I'm not sure why you guys posted these videos? They don't actually show siege being very effective? Are you saying if it had been changed you guys would of been wiped?

Didn't post the video for the sake of the Sieges - I actually didnt really notice how much they siege a 8-11 man group
I think Erodil henced to the thread - due to people keep saying, that pugs/zergs NEVER use sieges

Ahh..I was confused there..Pugs use siege... Its just not very effective

Well basically at the end of the first video you can see sieges everywhere,and its the reason we wiped.

I think you wiped more had to do with you getting hit by another large group; oh and the fact you all were standing on a flag instead of clearing the area.

Why were we standing on the flag?Because otherwise the outpost would have flipped. Thats the game mechanics and thats the main reason unpurgeable meatbag will be terrible for us. We cant totally clear everything or they would have flipped the keep just by being many. And even if we did, they would have all ressed in our back (its another problem). The size of the group we faced is not really a problem alone, we kill groups of this size everyday, the problem is they can put sieges everywhere and ress everybody while we cant spare members to camp corpses/clear sieges/put sieges.

And that's the problem..you've decided that you should be able to stand on a flag and fight overwhelming odds while being hit by siege and it not be a problem...

Which is weird; cause I think back to DAOC when there were hib or alb groups on Bled Bridge in that game camping it...I'd set up like 8 or 9 Catapults and just pelt them through the walls mind you...over and over again interrupting them so they couldn't even cast a heal.... and like none of them expected to live from it..There were no posts on the forums about it... They just accepted that camping that spot didn't work out cause I was there.

How are we supposed to keep the outpost then? Arent you admitting right there that sieges help outnumbering side in a keep defence ,and it will goes even worse after the change?

What makes you think you're suppose to keep the outpost? and siege will most certainly help the outnumbering side in keep defense. But its not the reason you died in that fight..you died because you stacked up on a small area and expected to live. It will also get worse after the patch if you continue to do that as well.

I mean I can tell you exactly where you lost that fight

12:20 seconds in the video...Your groups runs by a bunch of people on siege..and instead of clearing them real quick and setting it on fire..Which would of taken all by 10 to 20 seconds...you ran in and tried to bomb people on the flag..and got killed for it...Yes its possible they would of taken the keep while you were doing that..But at the same time you would of cleared the siege and been able to clear out the enemy before retaking the keep (Since the walls don't auto repair)

You basically tried utilizing stacking in a spot with multiple AOEs to live..when in reality..you shouldn't expect to live...

@Xsorsus
It is obvious that you don't have any experience with the style we play. Clearing sieges outside is totally pointless as people would have just rezzed everyone outside and replaced sieges. We would have traded the keep for 10 seconds of not getting sieged - which is pretty bad trade when you consider that retaking it would be even harder since you need to flip both flags again with sieges pointing everywhere. In the end we wiped because we lost 4 people to meteor fall damage bug which we cant do anything against.

The problem is that as a smaller group you can't stop people rezzing everyone in your back. Sieges are placed incredibly fast... So unless you camp the corpses they will just get rezzed and start sieging again. If they are going to buff sieges I think it is very important that killing someone actually means SOMETHING at least. It feels like the current state of the games is 100 times worse than with FCs so in my opinion a cooldown on getting rezzed is a must. Adding an increasing time to place a siege and slowing down the time it takes to turn it would also be good imo.

If you watch more of our videos you should notice that we are moving A LOT. We barely ever stand still somewhere unless we need to turn a flag back fast. However with siege being this easy to deploy and turn, you can't even "outmaneuver" the siege guys in many cases. On the other hand the big group of attackers will have enough people to take care of your sieges so you can only get 1-2 shots in and possibly lose one of your groupmates for it. So for a small group there is no way to avoid being hit by siege and unpurgable meatbags would destroy every small-medium sized group getting hit by it. And please don't start with "stop being a ball group" kind of comments. When you fight 2-3 times your number the last thing you want to do as a already relatively small group to split up even more. Staying in range of support skills like purge and maneuver aswell as heals in mandatory.

sorry for repeating myself, kinda tired atm

Sanct16 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Morostyle wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @Turelus @Xsorus here are how sieges are being used atm... dont want to imagine how it will be next patch. Help smaller groups a lot indeed.

I'm not sure why you guys posted these videos? They don't actually show siege being very effective? Are you saying if it had been changed you guys would of been wiped?

Didn't post the video for the sake of the Sieges - I actually didnt really notice how much they siege a 8-11 man group
I think Erodil henced to the thread - due to people keep saying, that pugs/zergs NEVER use sieges

Ahh..I was confused there..Pugs use siege... Its just not very effective

Well basically at the end of the first video you can see sieges everywhere,and its the reason we wiped.

I think you wiped more had to do with you getting hit by another large group; oh and the fact you all were standing on a flag instead of clearing the area.

Why were we standing on the flag?Because otherwise the outpost would have flipped. Thats the game mechanics and thats the main reason unpurgeable meatbag will be terrible for us. We cant totally clear everything or they would have flipped the keep just by being many. And even if we did, they would have all ressed in our back (its another problem). The size of the group we faced is not really a problem alone, we kill groups of this size everyday, the problem is they can put sieges everywhere and ress everybody while we cant spare members to camp corpses/clear sieges/put sieges.

And that's the problem..you've decided that you should be able to stand on a flag and fight overwhelming odds while being hit by siege and it not be a problem...

Which is weird; cause I think back to DAOC when there were hib or alb groups on Bled Bridge in that game camping it...I'd set up like 8 or 9 Catapults and just pelt them through the walls mind you...over and over again interrupting them so they couldn't even cast a heal.... and like none of them expected to live from it..There were no posts on the forums about it... They just accepted that camping that spot didn't work out cause I was there.

How are we supposed to keep the outpost then? Arent you admitting right there that sieges help outnumbering side in a keep defence ,and it will goes even worse after the change?

What makes you think you're suppose to keep the outpost? and siege will most certainly help the outnumbering side in keep defense. But its not the reason you died in that fight..you died because you stacked up on a small area and expected to live. It will also get worse after the patch if you continue to do that as well.

I mean I can tell you exactly where you lost that fight

12:20 seconds in the video...Your groups runs by a bunch of people on siege..and instead of clearing them real quick and setting it on fire..Which would of taken all by 10 to 20 seconds...you ran in and tried to bomb people on the flag..and got killed for it...Yes its possible they would of taken the keep while you were doing that..But at the same time you would of cleared the siege and been able to clear out the enemy before retaking the keep (Since the walls don't auto repair)

You basically tried utilizing stacking in a spot with multiple AOEs to live..when in reality..you shouldn't expect to live...

@Xsorsus
It is obvious that you don't have any experience with the style we play. Clearing sieges outside is totally pointless as people would have just rezzed everyone outside and replaced sieges. We would have traded the keep for 10 seconds of not getting sieged - which is pretty bad trade when you consider that retaking it would be even harder since you need to flip both flags again with sieges pointing everywhere. In the end we wiped because we lost 4 people to meteor fall damage bug which we cant do anything against.

The problem is that as a smaller group you can't stop people rezzing everyone in your back. Sieges are placed incredibly fast... So unless you camp the corpses they will just get rezzed and start sieging again. If they are going to buff sieges I think it is very important that killing someone actually means SOMETHING at least. It feels like the current state of the games is 100 times worse than with FCs so in my opinion a cooldown on getting rezzed is a must. Adding an increasing time to place a siege and slowing down the time it takes to turn it would also be good imo.

If you watch more of our videos you should notice that we are moving A LOT. We barely ever stand still somewhere unless we need to turn a flag back fast. However with siege being this easy to deploy and turn, you can't even "outmaneuver" the siege guys in many cases. On the other hand the big group of attackers will have enough people to take care of your sieges so you can only get 1-2 shots in and possibly lose one of your groupmates for it. So for a small group there is no way to avoid being hit by siege and unpurgable meatbags would destroy every small-medium sized group getting hit by it. And please don't start with "stop being a ball group" kind of comments. When you fight 2-3 times your number the last thing you want to do as a already relatively small group to split up even more. Staying in range of support skills like purge and maneuver aswell as heals in mandatory.

sorry for repeating myself, kinda tired atm

I don't have any experience in your style of play? Which is that? Being out numbered fighting at objectives? Because I guarantee you i have far more then you do. hence why I was able to spot where you screwed up in that video...You got wiped because you tried to rely on stacking to keep a flag from turning.. While getting pelted by siege you intentionally ignored and past right by... Its not like it was just a couple of you as well..You could of damn near instantly killed most of those players at that siege..and while they probably would of ressed some what..you would of stopped a large portion of that siege from hitting ya while stacking....

Now as for the rest of your post about rezzing....The game doesn't need cooldown on Rezzing..It needs a bloody Rez penalty like DAOC had.

And closing..You're not really a ball group until you start getting into around 12+ in my opinion...But at the same time..Stop stacking on flags when you're getting pelted by siege should be common sense to you by now.

~12 ppl grp fighting around objectives in THIS game.

1st of all we had to rez the guys that died on the breach earlier. Waiting for all the guys inside to flip the keep and start repairing wouldn't help with that so there was no time to clear the outside. Then the have to flip the flag back in order to preserve the tick and not lose the outpost. Only mistake I see rewatching the fight was to not pull out to the postern door after the flag was safe. If we would the keep flip to EP they would get guards which would make it harder and eventually we would have to take the 2nd flag back anyway with the same amount of sieges from outside.

How else are you gonna flip the flag if you don't stack on it? Send 2 guys there to tank the sieges alone?

Anyway, I don't think this discussion will get anywhere other than you coming up with more DAOC stuff and some total general advise like "dont stack on the flag" without bringing up any realistic solutions So I'll just say: Sieges will do *** for small groups but just favour big groups.

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Borrowing this thread due to beeing to lazy to make a new one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfpOps9jARw

I manged to pick songs that blocked the vid in 156 countries. fak.