Time to revisit the magicka dual-wielding Vs. staff debate.

kupacmac · November 2015

Trihugger wrote: »

zerosingularity wrote: »

kupacmac wrote: »

I have two questions about this topic for those using DW or 2H on a magicka Sorc:
What is your main spam attack for single target and for AoE?

Do you stand in melee range and weave in light attacks (i.e. cancel animations)?

For a Magicka Sorc, you either spam Trapping Webs (PVP mostly), Curse, Daedric Mines(PVP mostly), Liquid Lightning, Or Mage's Fury (Can't forget Overload on DW bar!). Most still use Destruction Staffs and weave Crushing Shock and medium fire staff attacks for dps.

I agree that the sheer gap in damage between destro and swords needs to close, it has gotten way out of hand.

This guy hit it pretty much on the head but I'm going to expand a bit. For PvE you cannot even begin to have a prayer for sustaining your damage without using a destruction staff in the way he mentioned. Let me explain why: elemental drain + that resto staff ability's name that escapes me (<3 healers that use both).

Force pulse costs about 500 magicka less than Trapping Webs and you will not be able to Medium weave. Considering the mana difference, that equates to roughly two procs of elemental drain you're not receiving per however long it takes you to attack (roughly ~1.5s). The amount of "stuff" you'd have to do to facilitate this deficit (Atronach mundus, Minimum 2 Reduced Cost Runes on Jewelry, etc) wholly negate any benefit received otherwise. (You also run into some serious problems if you consider CP points as you'd still spend in Elemental Expert since overload + liquid lightning + mage's wrath remain the bulk of your damage).

TL;DR - For PvE Sorcerers there is no viable work around to using a Destruction Staff. Quite frankly Magicka sorcerers are only "cutting edge" viable because of overload. You take that away and the whole thing implodes.

Good information there Trihugger. That's about what I thought. Sure you get more spell damage from DW/2H, but compare that to the damage and efficiency of Force Pulse with med attack weaving versus whatever people are spamming otherwise, and I just can't see a good use case for going anything other than Destruction Staff for PvE. And there is nothing for AoE spam that's even remotely comparable to Impuse (whichever morph) for a magicka Sorc.

Ezareth · November 2015

I'm going to try this out for the first time tonight and see what the difference makes (in VMSA).

Trihugger · November 2015

@kupacmac

Don't get me wrong, for trials and the like the 2nd bar is definitely dual wielding swords. Toss things on there like Mage's Wrath, Liquid Lightning, etc that you can one-and-done or you're now just spamming anyway (Execute).

vMSA changes all the rules since you're required to be self-sufficient all the while dealing with crazy things. Destro/Resto would be my setup in that singular instance.

Joy_Division · November 2015

I think some people are confusing the issue.

I'm not trying to advocate that a magicka user should always use two swords because it is always better.

I'm pointing out the stupidity that magicka users always lose hundreds and hundreds of spellpower just to use the weapons they are supposed to use.

And everyone loves to bring up DPs. It's not just about DPS. If I heal, I am forced to use the piece of trash restoration staff and have to just eat all that lost spell damage because someone made a simplistic and myopic argument that just because medium weave + force pulse is roughly the same DPS as two swords, everything is just fine.

AFrostWolf · November 2015

Can I just point out that a spell sword user worked in skyrim because you had a sword in one hand and a spell in the other.
You're points are spot on. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to use dual swords. You should if you want but it should be equal too staffs.

Resipsa131 · November 2015

Maybe a slight buff to spell crit for staffs anymore and you'd upset the balance; as a magicka NB you lose out on light attack weaves, ultimate generation, and sweet spectral bow procs. DW is nice for the execute bar but doesn't have the same functionality as destro