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Why is ZOS changing the veteran ranks to something else?
Azurephoenix999
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As far as I can tell, they're replacing Veteran Ranks with Champion points (e.g. the number of champion points you have earned on your account determines what post-50 equipment you can access).
As far as I can tell the only differences here appear to be:
Aside from the first point, it's basically the same system under a different name.
In order to implement the system with less hassle, they could simply change the name to "Champion System" and "Champion Ranks"), change the symbol from a shield to...a star or something, then make it so that it's account wide (XP from all level 50 characters contributes to it, all characters get skill and attribute points upon a rank up, and all level 50 characters can equip gear of up to their account's Champion Rank).
In addition, I believe that they should see if they can get to VR 20 before making the change (for the sake of getting to the next round number).
As far as I can tell the only differences here appear to be:
- Post level 50 progression is account-wide.
- Requirements for post-50 equipment & consumables are the total number of champion points you've got.
- We'll get an attribute point and skill point every 10 (or whatever) CPs up to a certain amount to compensate for the points we would've gotten in the veteran system (if it turns out this isn't done, everyone that came before will be at a permanent advantage. It wouldn't be fair on new players).
- Veteran Ranks will be completely gone.
Aside from the first point, it's basically the same system under a different name.
In order to implement the system with less hassle, they could simply change the name to "Champion System" and "Champion Ranks"), change the symbol from a shield to...a star or something, then make it so that it's account wide (XP from all level 50 characters contributes to it, all characters get skill and attribute points upon a rank up, and all level 50 characters can equip gear of up to their account's Champion Rank).
In addition, I believe that they should see if they can get to VR 20 before making the change (for the sake of getting to the next round number).
Guildmaster of Spectral Liberty - Xbox One - European Megaserver
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wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Azurephoenix999 wrote: »As far as I can tell, they're replacing Veteran Ranks with Champion points (e.g. the number of champion points you have earned on your account determines what post-50 equipment you can access).
As far as I can tell the only differences here appear to be:- Post level 50 progression is account-wide.
- Requirements for post-50 equipment & consumables are the total number of champion points you've got.
- We'll get an attribute point and skill point every 10 (or whatever) CPs up to a certain amount to compensate for the points we would've gotten in the veteran system (if it turns out this isn't done, everyone that came before will be at a permanent advantage. It wouldn't be fair on new players).
- Veteran Ranks will be completely gone.
Aside from the first point, it's basically the same system under a different name.
In order to implement the system with less hassle, they could simply change the name to "Champion System" and "Champion Ranks"), change the symbol from a shield to...a star or something, then make it so that it's account wide (XP from all level 50 characters contributes to it, all characters get skill and attribute points upon a rank up, and all level 50 characters can equip gear of up to their account's Champion Rank).
In addition, I believe that they should see if they can get to VR 20 before making the change (for the sake of getting to the next round number).
Well it's not exactly the same, CP has a catch up mechanic and VR does not. Also, I imagine it's quite confusing for new players to have two different endgame progression systems, so one needs to go. I imagine at this point it's easier to just scrap VR all together rather than try to transform it into something similar to the champion system.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion1 -
Catblade✭✭✭✭Still have to go all the way through Cadwell's silver and gold for skill points and skyshards. Pointless change1 -
Azurephoenix999✭✭✭✭✭
Well it's not exactly the same, CP has a catch up mechanic and VR does not. Also, I imagine it's quite confusing for new players to have two different endgame progression systems, so one needs to go. I imagine at this point it's easier to just scrap VR all together rather than try to transform it into something similar to the champion system.
Not really. It takes about 10 minutes tops to explain.
After you hit level 50, you become Veteran Rank 1. Veteran Ranks are basically the endgame versions of levels. There are currently 16 Veteran Ranks to go through.
Also once you hit level 50, you can earn Champion Points. If you earn a CP with one character, it gets given to all of your characters. They are used to unlock permanent passive abilities.Guildmaster of Spectral Liberty - Xbox One - European Megaserver1 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
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Right now you have to go ALL the way through, flipping almost every POI and completing every quest. That's a lot more work than just doing the main quest chain and grabbing skyshards. Also, under the new system Caldwell's is optional as opposed to mandatory.Still have to go all the way through Cadwell's silver and gold for skill points and skyshards. Pointless change
I have a couple V1s that are waiting for this change. Once the vet ranks are gone I can use them to run dungeons or PvP with the limited builds they have now and occasionally pop into silver or gold if I need extra skill points. If I did that with them now I'd just get aggravated when I got a V1 engine guardian helm drop or whatever.Azurephoenix999 wrote: »
Well it's not exactly the same, CP has a catch up mechanic and VR does not. Also, I imagine it's quite confusing for new players to have two different endgame progression systems, so one needs to go. I imagine at this point it's easier to just scrap VR all together rather than try to transform it into something similar to the champion system.
Not really. It takes about 10 minutes tops to explain.
After you hit level 50, you become Veteran Rank 1. Veteran Ranks are basically the endgame versions of levels. There are currently 16 Veteran Ranks to go through.
Also once you hit level 50, you can earn Champion Points. If you earn a CP with one character, it gets given to all of your characters. They are used to unlock permanent passive abilities.
Yeah it's not rocket science, but it is weird. I imagine removing them from the game makes things simpler not only for the players, but for the devs as well (as a professional developer myself my favorite thing to do is delete code, nothing is better for the health of a piece of software).@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion0 -
Ampnode✭✭✭✭Because it would be easier to work with the Champion Point system instead of Veteran Ranks. ZoS intends to expand the game by a lot in the future. More content is going to come out. That calls for more gear, which also requires some sort of progression system. And personally, I'd like that progression to not be with VR. This punishes new players for absolutely no reason. What happens if they didn't get rid of VR? We'd have VR 30, or even 50, at some point. Do you realize how LONG that would take? Not only just new players, but players who just want to create a new character. Yeah, I'd prefer not to grind out 30, or even 50, VR levels every character when I can just have CPs that are account wide. Once I get level 50 on a new character, I can just immediately wear the gear that's on my main. Amazing, right?PC NA - CP640+
Characters:
Amp - Magicka Nightblade
Amp - Magicka Sorcerer
Amp - Magicka Templar
Amp - Stamina Dragonknight
Amp - Stamina Templar
Amp - Magicka Dragonknight
Amp - Stamina Sorcerer
Amp - Stamina Nightblade0 -
Catblade✭✭✭✭
Right now you have to go ALL the way through, flipping almost every POI and completing every quest. That's a lot more work than just doing the main quest chain and grabbing skyshards. Also, under the new system Caldwell's is optional as opposed to mandatory.Still have to go all the way through Cadwell's silver and gold for skill points and skyshards. Pointless change
I have a couple V1s that are waiting for this change. Once the vet ranks are gone I can use them to run dungeons or PvP with the limited builds they have now and occasionally pop into silver or gold if I need extra skill points. If I did that with them now I'd just get aggravated when I got a V1 engine guardian helm drop or whatever.Azurephoenix999 wrote: »
Well it's not exactly the same, CP has a catch up mechanic and VR does not. Also, I imagine it's quite confusing for new players to have two different endgame progression systems, so one needs to go. I imagine at this point it's easier to just scrap VR all together rather than try to transform it into something similar to the champion system.
Not really. It takes about 10 minutes tops to explain.
After you hit level 50, you become Veteran Rank 1. Veteran Ranks are basically the endgame versions of levels. There are currently 16 Veteran Ranks to go through.
Also once you hit level 50, you can earn Champion Points. If you earn a CP with one character, it gets given to all of your characters. They are used to unlock permanent passive abilities.
Yeah it's not rocket science, but it is weird. I imagine removing them from the game makes things simpler not only for the players, but for the devs as well (as a professional developer myself my favorite thing to do is delete code, nothing is better for the health of a piece of software).
I only do the main quest chain and grab the skyshards as it is. What else do you have to do?0 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
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Right now you have to go ALL the way through, flipping almost every POI and completing every quest. That's a lot more work than just doing the main quest chain and grabbing skyshards. Also, under the new system Caldwell's is optional as opposed to mandatory.Still have to go all the way through Cadwell's silver and gold for skill points and skyshards. Pointless change
I have a couple V1s that are waiting for this change. Once the vet ranks are gone I can use them to run dungeons or PvP with the limited builds they have now and occasionally pop into silver or gold if I need extra skill points. If I did that with them now I'd just get aggravated when I got a V1 engine guardian helm drop or whatever.Azurephoenix999 wrote: »
Well it's not exactly the same, CP has a catch up mechanic and VR does not. Also, I imagine it's quite confusing for new players to have two different endgame progression systems, so one needs to go. I imagine at this point it's easier to just scrap VR all together rather than try to transform it into something similar to the champion system.
Not really. It takes about 10 minutes tops to explain.
After you hit level 50, you become Veteran Rank 1. Veteran Ranks are basically the endgame versions of levels. There are currently 16 Veteran Ranks to go through.
Also once you hit level 50, you can earn Champion Points. If you earn a CP with one character, it gets given to all of your characters. They are used to unlock permanent passive abilities.
Yeah it's not rocket science, but it is weird. I imagine removing them from the game makes things simpler not only for the players, but for the devs as well (as a professional developer myself my favorite thing to do is delete code, nothing is better for the health of a piece of software).
I only do the main quest chain and grab the skyshards as it is. What else do you have to do?
Well I have stayed away from silver/gold for awhile now, since the drop from 1,000,000 xp to 850,000 xp... but before that change you had to fully clear each zone to even hope to get anywhere near max level (v14 at the time). Given that we have to get to v16 now the amount of xp needed is about the same. Do you get close to max from just the main quest and skyshards now, or are you doing supplemental leveling in Cyrodiil / Wrothgar?@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion1 -
Catblade✭✭✭✭
Right now you have to go ALL the way through, flipping almost every POI and completing every quest. That's a lot more work than just doing the main quest chain and grabbing skyshards. Also, under the new system Caldwell's is optional as opposed to mandatory.Still have to go all the way through Cadwell's silver and gold for skill points and skyshards. Pointless change
I have a couple V1s that are waiting for this change. Once the vet ranks are gone I can use them to run dungeons or PvP with the limited builds they have now and occasionally pop into silver or gold if I need extra skill points. If I did that with them now I'd just get aggravated when I got a V1 engine guardian helm drop or whatever.Azurephoenix999 wrote: »
Well it's not exactly the same, CP has a catch up mechanic and VR does not. Also, I imagine it's quite confusing for new players to have two different endgame progression systems, so one needs to go. I imagine at this point it's easier to just scrap VR all together rather than try to transform it into something similar to the champion system.
Not really. It takes about 10 minutes tops to explain.
After you hit level 50, you become Veteran Rank 1. Veteran Ranks are basically the endgame versions of levels. There are currently 16 Veteran Ranks to go through.
Also once you hit level 50, you can earn Champion Points. If you earn a CP with one character, it gets given to all of your characters. They are used to unlock permanent passive abilities.
Yeah it's not rocket science, but it is weird. I imagine removing them from the game makes things simpler not only for the players, but for the devs as well (as a professional developer myself my favorite thing to do is delete code, nothing is better for the health of a piece of software).
I only do the main quest chain and grab the skyshards as it is. What else do you have to do?
Well I have stayed away from silver/gold for awhile now, since the drop from 1,000,000 xp to 850,000 xp... but before that change you had to fully clear each zone to even hope to get anywhere near max level (v14 at the time). Given that we have to get to v16 now the amount of xp needed is about the same. Do you get close to max from just the main quest and skyshards now, or are you doing supplemental leveling in Cyrodiil / Wrothgar?
I have to supplement in cyrodiil. I use an xp pot and spend about 50 mins a day grinding.1 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Right now you have to go ALL the way through, flipping almost every POI and completing every quest. That's a lot more work than just doing the main quest chain and grabbing skyshards. Also, under the new system Caldwell's is optional as opposed to mandatory.Still have to go all the way through Cadwell's silver and gold for skill points and skyshards. Pointless change
I have a couple V1s that are waiting for this change. Once the vet ranks are gone I can use them to run dungeons or PvP with the limited builds they have now and occasionally pop into silver or gold if I need extra skill points. If I did that with them now I'd just get aggravated when I got a V1 engine guardian helm drop or whatever.Azurephoenix999 wrote: »
Well it's not exactly the same, CP has a catch up mechanic and VR does not. Also, I imagine it's quite confusing for new players to have two different endgame progression systems, so one needs to go. I imagine at this point it's easier to just scrap VR all together rather than try to transform it into something similar to the champion system.
Not really. It takes about 10 minutes tops to explain.
After you hit level 50, you become Veteran Rank 1. Veteran Ranks are basically the endgame versions of levels. There are currently 16 Veteran Ranks to go through.
Also once you hit level 50, you can earn Champion Points. If you earn a CP with one character, it gets given to all of your characters. They are used to unlock permanent passive abilities.
Yeah it's not rocket science, but it is weird. I imagine removing them from the game makes things simpler not only for the players, but for the devs as well (as a professional developer myself my favorite thing to do is delete code, nothing is better for the health of a piece of software).
I only do the main quest chain and grab the skyshards as it is. What else do you have to do?
Well I have stayed away from silver/gold for awhile now, since the drop from 1,000,000 xp to 850,000 xp... but before that change you had to fully clear each zone to even hope to get anywhere near max level (v14 at the time). Given that we have to get to v16 now the amount of xp needed is about the same. Do you get close to max from just the main quest and skyshards now, or are you doing supplemental leveling in Cyrodiil / Wrothgar?
I have to supplement in cyrodiil. I use an xp pot and spend about 50 mins a day grinding.
That right there is why I hate the VR system. It's either grind the same quests on each alt, or grab an XP pot and head to cracked wood cave... every day... for an hour. I know some people like grinding mobs, but nothing in this game pushes me away faster than running around in a circle spamming AOEs.
It's one thing if you want to grind up to the CP cap, needing to grind endlessly for that is fine with me because I don't want or need to do it. However, having to grind something just to get to the real endgame is bad design. I put up with it while waiting for the 1.6 update and waiting for console release, but now that the devs are pushing the game forward again it's time to put an end to the 13 million xp grind monster.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion1 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Still have to go all the way through Cadwell's silver and gold for skill points and skyshards. Pointless change
But you no longer feel forced to run the gauntlet. You can do it at your own pace and not suffer for it. So, actually a very reasonable change with an actual point to it.
Its like we have a bunch of newcomers on the forums that werent here when CP was rolled out and they think CP was always here and always apart of the system. CP came along with the intent to replace VRs with it.
Now people think that ZOS should half *** it and leave VRs because people rushed to the top on one character and think everyone else should suffer through it over and over again.Edited by Korah_Eaglecry on November 25, 2015 1:52AMPenniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax1 -
Artjuh90✭✭✭✭✭
✭the dutch have a saying for it:
beter to turn half way then to drop the whole way down0 -
Catblade✭✭✭✭I'm pretty sure the cp cap will be the new requirement for equipping gear. So eventually instead of having to grind to VR16 we will have to grind to X amount of CP. At first it's all "yay my alts are there quicker" But i feel eventually down the road it's going to turn into a nightmare grind. If you don't believe me then remember I said it now because if you think suddenly everything is going to become faster and easier you're dreaming. Look at the past two DLC if anything ZOS is slowing down progression. BOP mats locked behind paywalls but you guys think this will be different? Seriously stop drinking the kool aideEdited by Catblade on November 25, 2015 2:08AM1
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wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm pretty sure the cp cap will be the new requirement for equipping gear. So eventually instead of having to grind to VR16 we will have to grind to X amount of CP. At first it's all "yay my alts are there quicker" But i feel eventually down the road it's going to turn into a nightmare grind.
From what they've said the CP level for top-end gear will be 160 when VRs go away, well short of the 501 cap. It would be pretty foolish of them to put any gear at the cap (and they've said they're not going to).
There are, of course, many ways they could screw this transition up, but that's no reason for them not to try and fix the screw ups that we're stuck with today.
If the kool aide tastes like VR removal then I'll have seconds please.Edited by wayfarerx on November 25, 2015 2:09AM@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion0 -
Catblade✭✭✭✭I'll be here on the forum to soak up the tears when this goes horribly wrong don't worry. If anything it will be worth that good long laugh.Edited by Catblade on November 25, 2015 2:10AM2