ZoS Balance Suggestions
Ishammael
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Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx67g75
Wrobel Quote:
Since we get so little info about plans and so forth, I'm going to do a line-by-line of this quote.
Sounds great! Here are some DK abilities to start with: Fiery Grip, obsidian shield, both morphs of stone fist, both morphs of inferno, both morphs of dragon blood, both morphs of ash cloud, one morph of igneous weapons.
There are two ways to interpret this: (1) that you mean you will make DoTs have longer duration, or (2) that DoTs will be harder to purge.
If (1), please re-evaluate because DoT duration isn't the issue. If (2), good idea.
"Effectiveness" is a vague word and therefore hard to determine meaning. If meaning is "more damage," that's good. If meaning is "fix broken ones" that's better. The root problem is that Templar skills are mechanically awkward and there are several significant trades you have to make. Here is a list:
1. Toppling charge still bugs out. Otherwise it is a good skill.
2. Puncture / Biting are both solid. Just fix bonus damage vs. shields bug.
3. Radiant destruction went from great to so-so. Reasons: (1) dodge-able, (2) lowered tick rate reduces total damage applied because you almost never get someone for the full beam. Also, there is some damage wonkiness. @Joy_Division can you explain better?
4. Solar barrage vs. Dark flare. Both of these skills are great. In fact, I want to use both. No class in the game has a skill morph this difficult to make. In fact, I would love for more skills to follow this model, e.g. two great skills that are totally different.
5. That one pew-pew skill, dunno the name. It does basically zero damage, and has a fire DoT. Its bad. Make the projectile move faster and do magic damage.
Side note: templar ultimates are terrible. Suggestions: Increase Nova damage, increase radial sweep damage, throw out Rite of Passage.
This is really good. Please share what your ideas are!
As a side note -- you need to evaluate Hardened + Harness against all magicka builds.
This is the real LOL idea. Nightblades have the best passives in the game. They don't need buffs, and their flavor is good. In fact, they are so good I don't even know where to start. I'll break down the highlights:
1. Master Assassin: +10% spell/wpn dmg while invis. +100% stun duration. Really, really good.
2. Pressure points. +crit for each assasin skill slotted. Solid
3. Hemorrage. +10% crit damage, +minor savagery after a crit. Super good considering you always get criticals out of stealth.
4. Refreshing shadows. +15% mana/hp/stam regen. So good. This multiplies with: vampire, armor, CPs, willow's path (1.15*1.1*1.2*1.25*1.15 = 2.18!!!!!!!). Better than Battle Roar, better than Capacitor.
5. Dark Veil. +15% shadow skill duration. Solid.
6. Catalyst. +12 ult for potion. Solid
7. Magicka Flood. +8% mana!!!! So good. Enough said.
8. Soul siphoner. +3% healing for each siphoning ability. Solid.
Do i even need to make a comparison to DK and Sorc passives that increase health regen only? Or the block passives on templar and DK which are no longer viable?
Wrobel Quote:
Overall we're looking at buffing some of the less used ability morphs.
DK - We're looking at making their dots stick to targets longer. Templar - Increasing effectiveness of some of their damage abilities. Sorcerer - Making more active abilities instead of toggles. Nightblade - Morph and passive ability improvements.
Since we get so little info about plans and so forth, I'm going to do a line-by-line of this quote.
Overall we're looking at buffing some of the less used ability morphs.
Sounds great! Here are some DK abilities to start with: Fiery Grip, obsidian shield, both morphs of stone fist, both morphs of inferno, both morphs of dragon blood, both morphs of ash cloud, one morph of igneous weapons.
DK - We're looking at making their dots stick to targets longer.
There are two ways to interpret this: (1) that you mean you will make DoTs have longer duration, or (2) that DoTs will be harder to purge.
If (1), please re-evaluate because DoT duration isn't the issue. If (2), good idea.
Templar - Increasing effectiveness of some of their damage abilities.
"Effectiveness" is a vague word and therefore hard to determine meaning. If meaning is "more damage," that's good. If meaning is "fix broken ones" that's better. The root problem is that Templar skills are mechanically awkward and there are several significant trades you have to make. Here is a list:
1. Toppling charge still bugs out. Otherwise it is a good skill.
2. Puncture / Biting are both solid. Just fix bonus damage vs. shields bug.
3. Radiant destruction went from great to so-so. Reasons: (1) dodge-able, (2) lowered tick rate reduces total damage applied because you almost never get someone for the full beam. Also, there is some damage wonkiness. @Joy_Division can you explain better?
4. Solar barrage vs. Dark flare. Both of these skills are great. In fact, I want to use both. No class in the game has a skill morph this difficult to make. In fact, I would love for more skills to follow this model, e.g. two great skills that are totally different.
5. That one pew-pew skill, dunno the name. It does basically zero damage, and has a fire DoT. Its bad. Make the projectile move faster and do magic damage.
Side note: templar ultimates are terrible. Suggestions: Increase Nova damage, increase radial sweep damage, throw out Rite of Passage.
Sorcerer - Making more active abilities instead of toggles.
This is really good. Please share what your ideas are!
As a side note -- you need to evaluate Hardened + Harness against all magicka builds.
Nightblade - Morph and passive ability improvements.
This is the real LOL idea. Nightblades have the best passives in the game. They don't need buffs, and their flavor is good. In fact, they are so good I don't even know where to start. I'll break down the highlights:
1. Master Assassin: +10% spell/wpn dmg while invis. +100% stun duration. Really, really good.
2. Pressure points. +crit for each assasin skill slotted. Solid
3. Hemorrage. +10% crit damage, +minor savagery after a crit. Super good considering you always get criticals out of stealth.
4. Refreshing shadows. +15% mana/hp/stam regen. So good. This multiplies with: vampire, armor, CPs, willow's path (1.15*1.1*1.2*1.25*1.15 = 2.18!!!!!!!). Better than Battle Roar, better than Capacitor.
5. Dark Veil. +15% shadow skill duration. Solid.
6. Catalyst. +12 ult for potion. Solid
7. Magicka Flood. +8% mana!!!! So good. Enough said.
8. Soul siphoner. +3% healing for each siphoning ability. Solid.
Do i even need to make a comparison to DK and Sorc passives that increase health regen only? Or the block passives on templar and DK which are no longer viable?
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FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Source:
Side note: templar ultimates are terrible. Suggestions: Increase Nova damage, increase radial sweep damage, throw out Rite of Passage.
Oh the pain of being a stam sorc with completely crap ultimate options.. Also I LOVE novas!!!2 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭You're not ESO. How do you expect someone to care about your suggestions?
Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU3 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
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Will you synergize my nova?
Also, negate still stronk.Edited by Ishammael on November 23, 2015 3:46PM0 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
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Meteor does more damage for significantly less ultimate. It's a nova that's already synergized the moment you cast it. And it costs less. Nova does has the great 30% damage reduction, but that's only if the enemies stand in it. It's ridiculously easy to move out of, and it's not like the templar has the option of hitting you with ranged attacks. It's completely countered by negate, and the DoT damage is completely negligible. If a negate goes off 3 seconds later you got nothing out of the nova unless it was synergized. IF it was synergized, because in order to synergize a nova you have to stand directly on top of the egg yolk and cycle through three other synergies just to get to the nova. Why don't ultimate synergies have priority? The stun is meh. The enemy probably all has CC immunity by the time you can actually synergy it. I'd rather it pull enemies to the center.
I love Nova but it's extremely situational, and I think an ultimate should be able to help you no matter what situation you are in.1 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
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I suspect that's why he loves it.
Meteor does more damage for significantly less ultimate. It's a nova that's already synergized the moment you cast it. And it costs less. Nova does has the great 30% damage reduction, but that's only if the enemies stand in it. It's ridiculously easy to move out of, and it's not like the templar has the option of hitting you with ranged attacks. It's completely countered by negate, and the DoT damage is completely negligible. If a negate goes off 3 seconds later you got nothing out of the nova unless it was synergized. IF it was synergized, because in order to synergize a nova you have to stand directly on top of the egg yolk and cycle through three other synergies just to get to the nova. Why don't ultimate synergies have priority? The stun is meh. The enemy probably all has CC immunity by the time you can actually synergy it. I'd rather it pull enemies to the center.
I love Nova but it's extremely situational, and I think an ultimate should be able to help you no matter what situation you are in.
Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
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Meteor does more damage for significantly less ultimate. It's a nova that's already synergized the moment you cast it. And it costs less. Nova does has the great 30% damage reduction, but that's only if the enemies stand in it. It's ridiculously easy to move out of, and it's not like the templar has the option of hitting you with ranged attacks. It's completely countered by negate, and the DoT damage is completely negligible. If a negate goes off 3 seconds later you got nothing out of the nova unless it was synergized. IF it was synergized, because in order to synergize a nova you have to stand directly on top of the egg yolk and cycle through three other synergies just to get to the nova. Why don't ultimate synergies have priority? The stun is meh. The enemy probably all has CC immunity by the time you can actually synergy it. I'd rather it pull enemies to the center.
I love Nova but it's extremely situational, and I think an ultimate should be able to help you no matter what situation you are in.
As a melee magicka Templar, dawnbreaker is a better ultimate with nova slotted for group play. If I'm ranged, I'll be using elemental dmg making meteor a sexier option despite the counters.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
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Meteor does more damage for significantly less ultimate. It's a nova that's already synergized the moment you cast it. And it costs less. Nova does has the great 30% damage reduction, but that's only if the enemies stand in it. It's ridiculously easy to move out of, and it's not like the templar has the option of hitting you with ranged attacks. It's completely countered by negate, and the DoT damage is completely negligible. If a negate goes off 3 seconds later you got nothing out of the nova unless it was synergized. IF it was synergized, because in order to synergize a nova you have to stand directly on top of the egg yolk and cycle through three other synergies just to get to the nova. Why don't ultimate synergies have priority? The stun is meh. The enemy probably all has CC immunity by the time you can actually synergy it. I'd rather it pull enemies to the center.
I love Nova but it's extremely situational, and I think an ultimate should be able to help you no matter what situation you are in.
As a melee magicka Templar, dawnbreaker is a better ultimate with nova slotted for group play. If I'm ranged, I'll be using elemental dmg making meteor a sexier option despite the counters.
Which is funny, because you'd think it'd be Radial Sweep, except with Dawnbreaker you can actually hit something and do more damage when you do.1 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
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Meteor does more damage for significantly less ultimate. It's a nova that's already synergized the moment you cast it. And it costs less. Nova does has the great 30% damage reduction, but that's only if the enemies stand in it. It's ridiculously easy to move out of, and it's not like the templar has the option of hitting you with ranged attacks. It's completely countered by negate, and the DoT damage is completely negligible. If a negate goes off 3 seconds later you got nothing out of the nova unless it was synergized. IF it was synergized, because in order to synergize a nova you have to stand directly on top of the egg yolk and cycle through three other synergies just to get to the nova. Why don't ultimate synergies have priority? The stun is meh. The enemy probably all has CC immunity by the time you can actually synergy it. I'd rather it pull enemies to the center.
I love Nova but it's extremely situational, and I think an ultimate should be able to help you no matter what situation you are in.
As a melee magicka Templar, dawnbreaker is a better ultimate with nova slotted for group play. If I'm ranged, I'll be using elemental dmg making meteor a sexier option despite the counters.
Which is funny, because you'd think it'd be Radial Sweep, except with Dawnbreaker you can actually hit something and do more damage when you do.
Dawnbreaker of smiting is super strong, especially with 100 CP in thaum.2 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
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Meteor does more damage for significantly less ultimate. It's a nova that's already synergized the moment you cast it. And it costs less. Nova does has the great 30% damage reduction, but that's only if the enemies stand in it. It's ridiculously easy to move out of, and it's not like the templar has the option of hitting you with ranged attacks. It's completely countered by negate, and the DoT damage is completely negligible. If a negate goes off 3 seconds later you got nothing out of the nova unless it was synergized. IF it was synergized, because in order to synergize a nova you have to stand directly on top of the egg yolk and cycle through three other synergies just to get to the nova. Why don't ultimate synergies have priority? The stun is meh. The enemy probably all has CC immunity by the time you can actually synergy it. I'd rather it pull enemies to the center.
I love Nova but it's extremely situational, and I think an ultimate should be able to help you no matter what situation you are in.
As a melee magicka Templar, dawnbreaker is a better ultimate with nova slotted for group play. If I'm ranged, I'll be using elemental dmg making meteor a sexier option despite the counters.
Which is funny, because you'd think it'd be Radial Sweep, except with Dawnbreaker you can actually hit something and do more damage when you do.
Dawnbreaker of smiting is super strong, especially with 100 CP in thaum.
I'm pointing out how Templars have a melee range class ult designed for doing damage, and it's completely useless especially compared to Dawnbreaker which is very similar to that Templar ult.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I saw this quote and agree it's begging for more specifics. ZoS, do you remember last time you totally revamped skills in your secret laboratory with no player input?
I can say now, my DoTs not sticking to my targets is not the reason my (magicka) DK is no longer fun to play. The PvP meta is so predicated on burst damage and survivability based on mobility/escape (as opposed to class mechanics), that DKs are still going to struggle even with a DoT that "sticks" to enemies. The total damage from these DoTs is *not* noticeably higher than the high damage spamables being thrown out there that making them stick longer is not something I am looking forward to. Make chains reliable and predictable, give the DK some survival mechanic not undermined by a global penalty (i.e. stam blocking nerf), and do something with the redundant inferno skill (i.e. give us back a functional equivalent to the old one) are things I'm more concerned with than DoTs
As for templars, my concerns match the OP's. Regarding Radiant Destruction, ZoS claims they fixed a bug that fails to give it its execute bonus, which may or may not have been responsible for what some of my PvE Templar friends were asserting: namely Radiant was a DPS loss until the enemy was at 15%. The core issue with Radiant now however is that it is a channel and thus locks you into a defenseless state and ZoS has decided that channels are now dodge-able, thus channels are 100% disadvantageous with no corresponding benefits. The "pew-pew" skill he refers to is Sun Fire, which I agree is underwhelming.
I am also of the belief the collectively, NB passives are the best in the game. Why they are singled out for specific attention is puzzling to me.
@Manoekin take on Nova is insightful and much the same could be said for DK standard. Why their synergy activation, which is 100% essential to get anything out of these ultimates, was given such a small area to interact and why they do not take priority over other synergies is very frustrating.6 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
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Meteor does more damage for significantly less ultimate. It's a nova that's already synergized the moment you cast it. And it costs less. Nova does has the great 30% damage reduction, but that's only if the enemies stand in it. It's ridiculously easy to move out of, and it's not like the templar has the option of hitting you with ranged attacks. It's completely countered by negate, and the DoT damage is completely negligible. If a negate goes off 3 seconds later you got nothing out of the nova unless it was synergized. IF it was synergized, because in order to synergize a nova you have to stand directly on top of the egg yolk and cycle through three other synergies just to get to the nova. Why don't ultimate synergies have priority? The stun is meh. The enemy probably all has CC immunity by the time you can actually synergy it. I'd rather it pull enemies to the center.
I love Nova but it's extremely situational, and I think an ultimate should be able to help you no matter what situation you are in.
As a melee magicka Templar, dawnbreaker is a better ultimate with nova slotted for group play. If I'm ranged, I'll be using elemental dmg making meteor a sexier option despite the counters.
Which is funny, because you'd think it'd be Radial Sweep, except with Dawnbreaker you can actually hit something and do more damage when you do.
Dawnbreaker of smiting is super strong, especially with 100 CP in thaum.
I'm pointing out how Templars have a melee range class ult designed for doing damage, and it's completely useless especially compared to Dawnbreaker which is very similar to that Templar ult.
The dmg morph is for sustain DPS in pve.
The pvp morph is empowering sweeps.
Pop that when surrounded and the amount of dmg mitigation you get is absurd. Use it on my "escape" bar for utility.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
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Meteor does more damage for significantly less ultimate. It's a nova that's already synergized the moment you cast it. And it costs less. Nova does has the great 30% damage reduction, but that's only if the enemies stand in it. It's ridiculously easy to move out of, and it's not like the templar has the option of hitting you with ranged attacks. It's completely countered by negate, and the DoT damage is completely negligible. If a negate goes off 3 seconds later you got nothing out of the nova unless it was synergized. IF it was synergized, because in order to synergize a nova you have to stand directly on top of the egg yolk and cycle through three other synergies just to get to the nova. Why don't ultimate synergies have priority? The stun is meh. The enemy probably all has CC immunity by the time you can actually synergy it. I'd rather it pull enemies to the center.
I love Nova but it's extremely situational, and I think an ultimate should be able to help you no matter what situation you are in.
As a melee magicka Templar, dawnbreaker is a better ultimate with nova slotted for group play. If I'm ranged, I'll be using elemental dmg making meteor a sexier option despite the counters.
Which is funny, because you'd think it'd be Radial Sweep, except with Dawnbreaker you can actually hit something and do more damage when you do.
Dawnbreaker of smiting is super strong, especially with 100 CP in thaum.
I'm pointing out how Templars have a melee range class ult designed for doing damage, and it's completely useless especially compared to Dawnbreaker which is very similar to that Templar ult.
The dmg morph is for sustain DPS in pve.
The pvp morph is empowering sweeps.
Pop that when surrounded and the amount of dmg mitigation you get is absurd. Use it on my "escape" bar for utility.
Lol. Just delaying the inevitable. Would rather have the option to actually do damage.2 -
C0pp3rhead✭✭✭✭
Meteor does more damage for significantly less ultimate. It's a nova that's already synergized the moment you cast it. And it costs less. Nova does has the great 30% damage reduction, but that's only if the enemies stand in it. It's ridiculously easy to move out of, and it's not like the templar has the option of hitting you with ranged attacks. It's completely countered by negate, and the DoT damage is completely negligible. If a negate goes off 3 seconds later you got nothing out of the nova unless it was synergized. IF it was synergized, because in order to synergize a nova you have to stand directly on top of the egg yolk and cycle through three other synergies just to get to the nova. Why don't ultimate synergies have priority? The stun is meh. The enemy probably all has CC immunity by the time you can actually synergy it. I'd rather it pull enemies to the center.
I love Nova but it's extremely situational, and I think an ultimate should be able to help you no matter what situation you are in.
As a melee magicka Templar, dawnbreaker is a better ultimate with nova slotted for group play. If I'm ranged, I'll be using elemental dmg making meteor a sexier option despite the counters.
Which is funny, because you'd think it'd be Radial Sweep, except with Dawnbreaker you can actually hit something and do more damage when you do.
Dawnbreaker of smiting is super strong, especially with 100 CP in thaum.
I'm pointing out how Templars have a melee range class ult designed for doing damage, and it's completely useless especially compared to Dawnbreaker which is very similar to that Templar ult.
The dmg morph is for sustain DPS in pve.
The pvp morph is empowering sweeps.
Pop that when surrounded and the amount of dmg mitigation you get is absurd. Use it on my "escape" bar for utility.
Lol. Just delaying the inevitable. Would rather have the option to actually do damage.
The real problem with it is that it has a range of only 5 meters when melee range is defined as under 8 meters. Even when surrounded by enemies you're going to hit only half of them, especially if you're fighting on a hill."Things which are alike in nature grow to look alike, and the speaking stones have lain a long time lookin' at the sun. Some believe they descend with the lightning, but I believe they are on the ground and are projected downward by the bolt."
Fear my moustache powers.
Tastes-New-Blood - V14 Argonian Templar
Giblets N Bits - V2 Imperial Nightblade
Skruyue N'Alyutu - V1 Altmer Sorcerer
Jolbie Firecrotch - L31 Nord Dragonknight
Vehemence - - Valhalla's Guard1 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Problem with templars are easier than it seems, just look: Templars lack of:
-AOE CC
-root
-escape
-resorce managment skills/passives
-burst damage
-usefull ultimate.
Just need to be fixed at least something from this list. And fix damn bugged skills.1 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Great break down.
Also, holy batsh-t nb passives trump everyone else's. WTB refreshing shadows passive for dk plox.1 -
contact.opiumb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Problem with templars are easier than it seems, just look: Templars lack of:
-AOE CC
-root
-escape
-resorce managment skills/passives
-burst damage
-usefull ultimate.
Just need to be fixed at least something from this list. And fix damn bugged skills.
Templars don't need only this, but also :
. a complete passive revamp
. a complete ressource management revamp
. a complete healing tree revamp (yes, stamplar have only one tree to use aka spears)
. a complete shield revamp
etc etc etc etc...0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »Problem with templars are easier than it seems, just look: Templars lack of:
-AOE CC
-root
-escape
-resorce managment skills/passives
-burst damage
-usefull ultimate.
Just need to be fixed at least something from this list. And fix damn bugged skills.
Templars don't need only this, but also :
. a complete passive revamp
. a complete ressource management revamp
. a complete healing tree revamp (yes, stamplar have only one tree to use aka spears)
. a complete shield revamp
etc etc etc etc...
I think it obvoius that they won't do complete revamp at any point.0 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can someone post a comprehensive list of Templar abilities/passives and the problems. Spoiler the explanations though, so it's not a wall of text. I need this for reasons and because I don't have time right now.0 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can someone post a comprehensive list of Templar abilities/passives and the problems. Spoiler the explanations though, so it's not a wall of text. I need this for reasons and because I don't have time right now.
@Joy_Division already did it: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/227012/my-take-on-templars/p10 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can someone post a comprehensive list of Templar abilities/passives and the problems. Spoiler the explanations though, so it's not a wall of text. I need this for reasons and because I don't have time right now.
@Joy_Division already did it: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/227012/my-take-on-templars/p1
Got it. Thanks for posting the link. I'll have to read through that later
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