Devs can not ignore truth about IC

Helgi_Skotina · November 2015

pronkg wrote: »

yeah tanky as you probably are you take ages killing those mobs. And don't forget you are battle leveled. Try any other class built for pvp/dps at v16 and you'll notice the difference.

Meanwhile with the proper gear finally I was able to kill 1 of the banner men solo lol gave me 1200 tell var stones

Still I think the mobs being tough is fine. NB is just ridiculously OP in imperial city environment that's why people stop playing the DLC, it's just annoying and frustrating, so yeah there's better content out there which doesn't do that to people.

You soloed banner? Tell more.

Paske · November 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are looking at Imperial City updates in the future but will give more details on those as they get on our Development server. Many suggestions here are being taken into account regarding any changes to IC.

Thank goodness.

As a PVP player - IC was great at beginning, but now there is no reason to go there. Simply no incentive.

The only thing that is of any use are monster teeth and that is for agility ring alone.
Anything beyond that - no one really cares.

Giving players rewards to do IC and intertwine IC with Cyro would be amazing.

Islyn · November 2015

I loved the OP really great ideas! It's sad that such a massive place is all but abandoned....

These ideas could take various forms all over tamriel.

Well said!!

Jura23 · November 2015

Paske wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are looking at Imperial City updates in the future but will give more details on those as they get on our Development server. Many suggestions here are being taken into account regarding any changes to IC.

Thank goodness.

As a PVP player - IC was great at beginning, but now there is no reason to go there. Simply no incentive.

The only thing that is of any use are monster teeth and that is for agility ring alone.
Anything beyond that - no one really cares.

Giving players rewards to do IC and intertwine IC with Cyro would be amazing.

I think it's yctually wise to farm IC now that it's not crowded. Once they add new cool stuff to buy, you will be ready. Like ppl who were saving AP made a fortune once they added Akaviri motif.

zornyan · November 2015

pronkg wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

IC is nothing more than an NB ganker playground.. for other classes, there are way too many mobs in there and most of them do way too much damage.. I don't mind getting a mob add during a fight, but when that mob is 5x more dangerous than the PvP player you're fighting, something is wrong.

Fact that you can't do 3 steps without running into a pack of mobs, doesn't help.. or 2 steps and running into an NB, since that's all that's left down there.

We knew from a start that it was going to be NB heaven.. nothing was done to balance it out, so this is what we're left with.

Wtf are you talking about? Mobs aren't difficult at all, I've got my vr7 templar in there atm and none of the mobs pose a relative threat bar the bannermen.

I normally do a big loop in areas pulling groups of 8-12 mobs at a time.

yeah tanky as you probably are you take ages killing those mobs. And don't forget you are battle leveled. Try any other class built for pvp/dps at v16 and you'll notice the difference.

Meanwhile with the proper gear finally I was able to kill 1 of the banner men solo lol gave me 1200 tell var stones

Still I think the mobs being tough is fine. NB is just ridiculously OP in imperial city environment that's why people stop playing the DLC, it's just annoying and frustrating, so yeah there's better content out there which doesn't do that to people.

Really tanky? With 21k health in IC with food buffs? And light armor?

No, battle leveling doesn't give you huge stats remember? My vr7 has less health and less magicka and less spell damage than my vr16 templar.

On my vr16 I normally just run into mobs and pull as many as possible, never go below 80% health with sweeps, don't even need to heal myself.

Mobs die very quick, to do my normal rotation which includes a big loop of a certain area is approx 12 minutes, and equates to about 60-70 mobs, and a few ogrims/daedroth.

Including time running I get decent xp per hour.

pronkg · November 2015

Soun

zornyan wrote: »

pronkg wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

IC is nothing more than an NB ganker playground.. for other classes, there are way too many mobs in there and most of them do way too much damage.. I don't mind getting a mob add during a fight, but when that mob is 5x more dangerous than the PvP player you're fighting, something is wrong.

Fact that you can't do 3 steps without running into a pack of mobs, doesn't help.. or 2 steps and running into an NB, since that's all that's left down there.

We knew from a start that it was going to be NB heaven.. nothing was done to balance it out, so this is what we're left with.

Wtf are you talking about? Mobs aren't difficult at all, I've got my vr7 templar in there atm and none of the mobs pose a relative threat bar the bannermen.

I normally do a big loop in areas pulling groups of 8-12 mobs at a time.

yeah tanky as you probably are you take ages killing those mobs. And don't forget you are battle leveled. Try any other class built for pvp/dps at v16 and you'll notice the difference.

Meanwhile with the proper gear finally I was able to kill 1 of the banner men solo lol gave me 1200 tell var stones

Still I think the mobs being tough is fine. NB is just ridiculously OP in imperial city environment that's why people stop playing the DLC, it's just annoying and frustrating, so yeah there's better content out there which doesn't do that to people.

Really tanky? With 21k health in IC with food buffs? And light armor?

No, battle leveling doesn't give you huge stats remember? My vr7 has less health and less magicka and less spell damage than my vr16 templar.

On my vr16 I normally just run into mobs and pull as many as possible, never go below 80% health with sweeps, don't even need to heal myself.

Mobs die very quick, to do my normal rotation which includes a big loop of a certain area is approx 12 minutes, and equates to about 60-70 mobs, and a few ogrims/daedroth.

Including time running I get decent xp per hour.

Sounds very good indeed

Catblade · November 2015

If the devs are taking notes from this thread, try not putting one shot dungeon mechanics into a pvp zone. What's the point of pvp if i have to pve monsters that hit for 30k? In Cyrodiil the ads are fine because they are in set places, maybe take the same approach to IC and give us some space to actually fight each other and not one shot dungeon bosses. If we wanted dungeons we wouldn't be pvp players. I went into IC expecting a huge PVP battle and what i got was a dungeon with gankers included and pve players who won't fight to save their lives.

Recremen · November 2015

With the improved loading screens, I wouldn't even mind if IC got some substantive PvP objectives of its own. Here's hoping they improve the experience!

Sting864 · November 2015

zornyan wrote: »

You make it sound like because you pve you can't defend yourself against a player? Surely a dedicated pve player will have a certain setup, like dps and healing, and have experienced some of the hardest content in game.

Gankers are the single easiest targets for me, they all usually follow the same cookie cutter build, and have zero defence. Just have a little awareness and don't leave yourself widely open to attack, I see stupid things though, like players farming mobs and not waiting 5 secs in between to regen resources, so relying on heavy attack weaves etc.

Defending against A ganker is easy... A gank squad?? Not so much... As a NB, I enjoy ganking gankers, so I feed them some of their own medicine. They wait for some player to get to low health fighting a sewer monster or whatever, then they attack THAT guy... Then I attack them while THEY'RE low health and take THEIR TV stones...

nordickittyhawk · November 2015

Guys id like to add alot of you are talking about IC sewers only i was talking about both sewers and up top. sewers was made for stones mostly and upstairs was pretty much strict pvp, just keep that in mind. I just want life back in the city... it should not be a grind fest in there, it should be a place where pvpers can fight in a new enviroment.

nordickittyhawk · November 2015

Lefty_Lucy wrote: »

DISCLAIMER: Incoming cold hard truth.

@nordickittyhawk I love your original suggestions. All of these things would give people a reason to go to the Imperial City. Right now on PC NA, I don't even waste my time trying to find PvP in the IC anymore. It's dead. Done. Empty.

Your suggestions would help solve the problem of the IC being useless, but I believe a bigger problem still exists. Even if all of your suggestions were implemented, we would still have zergs running around to accomplish these objectives. That's a problem. That's been the problem since beta. Zergs.

I would still be disappointed with PvP in ESO if these changes were implemented, because they don't solve the largest problem with ESO's PvP content.

The PvP content in this game has never focused on the individual and their skill level. It has always focused on how large the group of players is. That is a damn shame. It tears me apart, because I love this game's combat so much, but I hate this game's PvP content. It could be so good. But instead, it is absolute garbage.

We need structured small scale PvP. We need it. If anyone thinks small scale PvP is unnecessary ESO, it's only because they can't visualize the potential it has.

It doesn't even have to be arenas. What happened to the PvP portion of the Justice System? Zergs won't exist in true open world PvP like this. What about a duel feature? Anywhere in the open world, interact with someone and request a duel. What about a death match feature? Again, anywhere in the open world, form a group and interact with another group's leader to initiate a XvX structured fight.

These things existed in Tera. If they existed in ESO, this game would be so much better.

I'm sorry. I hate to say this. But this game is dead if small scale PvP doesn't come soon. The current content (both PvP and PvE) in this game will not support a lasting healthy population. I believe twitch is a good indication of how healthy a game is. ESO has never had a good presence on twitch, and it never will without structured small scale PvP. Never. It's already dying on twitch.

This game has challenging combat that would be rewarding on an individual level if only we had a system for small scale PvP. I have been begging for this since Beta. Literally. My first evaluation of this game pleaded for better PvP content that did not reward you just because your group was larger.

The Imperial City is just as rewarding to zergs as Cyrodiil is. Just because there are tight hallways instead of big open fields doesn't mean small scale PvP will happen.

What saddens me is I think it's almost too late for ESO. PvP has always been an afterthought. The *** step child of content in this game.

I don't want to quit ESO. I just wish I wanted to play ESO still.

Heartbroken. Truly.

@left_lucy

dont worry i dont take offence or anything like that.

I understand zergs would be a huge problem thats why i added stuff like placing objects on Horrors as i noticed that zergs cant stack on these bosses and they mostly get them selves killed. Thou they might make counters knowing them... 100% understand your problem and they do need to fix this Aoe type zerg crap not only for IC but Cyro as well.

NobleNerd · November 2015

Lately I would say PvP in general has taken a good hit. Population has drastically decreased since the aftermath of IC. There is one less campaign on the roster (not sure when it actually disappeared, but one of the 7days is gone) and IC has definitely seen a decline in activity.

I think there are 2 factors that played into the lack of interest in IC and this happened even before Orsinium...

TV Stones drop rate. Even setting it to 80% instead of the original 100% design was to punishing for many players. On many other threads and especially the ones during the PTS many made great suggestions of a gradual increase to the TV Stones lost rate instead of constant punishment. May want to take a look back at those.
No direct connection with IC access and the war in Cyrodiil. During the high times of IC Cyrodiil was a ghost town due to Cyrodiil not having a direct impact and connection to IC. Now many are done with IC (gear, etc.) and fight in Cyrodiil on the 30 day campaigns at least, but there is a power divide with the new IC armor and those who didn't grind IC previously. The other day it took my guild group of 8 players over 10 min to kill 1 vr16.

We lost the PvP campaign buffs from PvE and with it some incentive to even care about the war. There just is little incentive to continue fighting in either Cyrodiil or IC. There needs to be a connection with the war and the rest of the world... possible political influence that changes game play.... or opening up raids or group dungeons when objectives are met in the war... or how about PvP arenas for XvX fights and having them tied to collecting PvP tokens to enter(?).

Before any of this I think most of us that PvP would say..... fix the lag and performance issues in large scale fights first!

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · November 2015

Bunneh wrote: »

You just don't get it, do you? Many of us enjoy PvE, and whilst we may join PvP in Cyrodil periodically, it's entirely elective. Placing fun PvE questing and sewer running in a ganker's paradise merely frustrated many of us PvE focused players.

I speak for my friends and myself when I say we were tired of losing our stones to tiresome kiddie NB's who wait for people fighting bosses etc. to be low on hits, then jump in, steal stones then DS off, or CP loaded untouchables/time-rich grinders who need an entire zerg to take down wander around slaughtering small groups etc.

The appearance of Orsinium was a blessed relief, and meant we could put the frustrations of IC behind us, and give two fingers to the gankers who are now QQ'ing here.

The increased mats supply means we can now craft v16 armour sets and not have to rely on running quests with ridiculous drop rates with mechanics that some players simply find too difficult to cope with, for whatever reason.

So you soloed IC bosses and loss stones when a player killed you so you're mad now? You would be mad if you died at any point before or after a boss fight.

Full health or edge of death PvE players always say it's unfair when they die mixing the two was a bad idea.

Frenkthevile · November 2015

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Bump IC was so disappointing mostly because of all the load screens.

This.
It took me 15-30 mins to enter IC from Deshaan, until last patch .

Frenkthevile · November 2015

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Telvar stones should never have been lootable. By making them lootable they ensured that 90% of the player base would have nothing to do with IC once they could avoid it.

Now the stones have become irrelevant but the damage is done, the place has gotten the reputation as an annoying ganker heaven. It is the gankers (and insane concentration of mobs everywhere) that caused the zergs in there btw.

They could get people back in there if they made it worthwhile for the pve player base to enter like being able to buy any of the dropped set items from the expansion for a good amount of stones plus player to player loot being taken out of the game.

Then when people actually have a reason to go there, you can introduce all kind of fun pvp elements.

So true!

newtinmpls · November 2015

In reply to the title - devs aren't the ones with any power

Digerati · November 2015

I would absolutely love there being some sort of arena queue system that ties IC and Cyrodiil together...

For every one PvEr who jumps on the forums and wants to push the focus away from PvP, there's 50 people who would absolutely love to play ESO if it weren't for all of the PvE you have to do to gain access to the PvP...

PvP queues could be that quick/consistent means for character progression through PvP we NEED.

KerinKor · November 2015

Nermy wrote: »

OP, I really like your ideas. It would definitely breathe a little life into what has become a wasteland. I haven't been back to IC since I enough mats and stuff to kit out my DK in v16 gear..

May,be just maybe, it's a wasteland because PVE players who are prepared to put up with PVP jerks ganking simply left.

It was fatuous to put a perfectly good PVE content inside a PVP area, it's likely deserted because those that would enjoy it simply won't got there.

Enodoc · November 2015

KerinKor wrote: »

It was fatuous to put a perfectly good PVE content inside a PVP area, it's likely deserted because those that would enjoy it simply won't got there.

Yeah, and IMO that applies to both sides. The PvE players won't go there because they're fed up of being ganked, and the PvP players won't go there because there's no objectives to fight over. Instead of being a great place for both types of players, like the original plans suggested, it ended up being a wasted opportunity with no sticking factor for either group.

Prabooo · November 2015

Helgi_Skotina wrote: »

pronkg wrote: »

yeah tanky as you probably are you take ages killing those mobs. And don't forget you are battle leveled. Try any other class built for pvp/dps at v16 and you'll notice the difference.

Meanwhile with the proper gear finally I was able to kill 1 of the banner men solo lol gave me 1200 tell var stones

Still I think the mobs being tough is fine. NB is just ridiculously OP in imperial city environment that's why people stop playing the DLC, it's just annoying and frustrating, so yeah there's better content out there which doesn't do that to people.

You soloed banner? Tell more.

Please !

I_killed_Vivec · November 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

It was fatuous to put a perfectly good PVE content inside a PVP area, it's likely deserted because those that would enjoy it simply won't got there.

Yeah, and IMO that applies to both sides. The PvE players won't go there because they're fed up of being ganked, and the PvP players won't go there because there's no objectives to fight over. Instead of being a great place for both types of players, like the original plans suggested, it ended up being a wasted opportunity with no sticking factor for either group.

There was a time when PvPers were saying that the "care bears" should stay away, that zone was for PvP.

Well with Wrothgar the PvEers are now staying away, so why aren't the PvPers delighted? Or was it really that the PvPers wanted to prey on the "care bears" all along, and it's no fun if they aren't turning up to be ganked?

IC could be improved, and the OP's suggestions make sense. But if PvP enjoyment is dependent on ganking "care bears" then nothing will improve IC because future DLC will give PvEers better things to do...

zornyan · November 2015

Tbh i love the city, I love going to the districts and seeing how it's a war zone, but I think they could make it more valuable for instance having some areas able to be controlled, I don't get why I can go into areas in the sewers that have DC banners, but no troops, maybe we could take certain key points of the sewers and have some of our troops move in? After all we are fighting for control of the city.

The best thing could be being able to take control of districts, and when that happens daedra will still be there fighting that factions troops, but with a few dotted around to assist us.

Best thing about the sewers for me is the XP, got 2.5 vr levels in under a couple hours last night, whilst getting enough trophies to open 4 vaults, which equal roughly 200k worth of sales, and dropped items for vr16 mats and tel var stones for more mats

Good money + good xp + good mats.

Volkodav · November 2015

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Bunneh wrote: »

You just don't get it, do you? Many of us enjoy PvE, and whilst we may join PvP in Cyrodil periodically, it's entirely elective. Placing fun PvE questing and sewer running in a ganker's paradise merely frustrated many of us PvE focused players.

I speak for my friends and myself when I say we were tired of losing our stones to tiresome kiddie NB's who wait for people fighting bosses etc. to be low on hits, then jump in, steal stones then DS off, or CP loaded untouchables/time-rich grinders who need an entire zerg to take down wander around slaughtering small groups etc.

The appearance of Orsinium was a blessed relief, and meant we could put the frustrations of IC behind us, and give two fingers to the gankers who are now QQ'ing here.

The increased mats supply means we can now craft v16 armour sets and not have to rely on running quests with ridiculous drop rates with mechanics that some players simply find too difficult to cope with, for whatever reason.

So your upset because you mindlessly want to grind stones on a 'pvp/pve zone' and cry because tou get killed by gankers which mind you the devs said that IC is great for nightblades because of the enviroment. so your upset on going in there without knowing the concept of the 'risk'. So you want the devs to know that you like there content being empty all there hard work n effort into so you dont get ganked..... you sir are just ... no ... god no.

And yet,gankers get to "farm" us PvErs? That's ok,right? Gankers dont want to do the work themselves,but want to take it away from those who do take the time and work to get those rewards? Ganksters are just lazy players.

Docmandu · November 2015

zornyan wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

IC is nothing more than an NB ganker playground.. for other classes, there are way too many mobs in there and most of them do way too much damage.. I don't mind getting a mob add during a fight, but when that mob is 5x more dangerous than the PvP player you're fighting, something is wrong.

Fact that you can't do 3 steps without running into a pack of mobs, doesn't help.. or 2 steps and running into an NB, since that's all that's left down there.

We knew from a start that it was going to be NB heaven.. nothing was done to balance it out, so this is what we're left with.

Wtf are you talking about? Mobs aren't difficult at all, I've got my vr7 templar in there atm and none of the mobs pose a relative threat bar the bannermen.

I normally do a big loop in areas pulling groups of 8-12 mobs at a time.

Yeah on my VR1 templar I can also do that... because.. strong heals and healing jabs... for a bit more challenge, respec your templar to stamina and try 8-12 mobs.. then we'll talk again.

Docmandu · November 2015

Lefty_Lucy wrote: »

*I* need structured small scale PvP. *I* need it.

There.. fixed it for you... now go play Blade & Soul or any other arena pvp game if YOU really want that.

Docmandu · November 2015

Paske wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are looking at Imperial City updates in the future but will give more details on those as they get on our Development server. Many suggestions here are being taken into account regarding any changes to IC.

Thank goodness.

As a PVP player - IC was great at beginning, but now there is no reason to go there. Simply no incentive.

The only thing that is of any use are monster teeth and that is for agility ring alone.
Anything beyond that - no one really cares.

Giving players rewards to do IC and intertwine IC with Cyro would be amazing.

Let's hope they don't fix IC by creating new super powerful MUST have items that can only be gained by grinding out items in IC... instead of.. making IC actually fun to play.

First on my list would be, remove half of the mobs down there.

Volkodav · November 2015

Docmandu wrote: »

Paske wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are looking at Imperial City updates in the future but will give more details on those as they get on our Development server. Many suggestions here are being taken into account regarding any changes to IC.

Thank goodness.

As a PVP player - IC was great at beginning, but now there is no reason to go there. Simply no incentive.

The only thing that is of any use are monster teeth and that is for agility ring alone.
Anything beyond that - no one really cares.

Giving players rewards to do IC and intertwine IC with Cyro would be amazing.

Let's hope they don't fix IC by creating new super powerful MUST have items that can only be gained by grinding out items in IC... instead of.. making IC actually fun to play.

First on my list would be, remove half of the mobs down there.

First on my list would be making it to where you can even get into the gates to see what it is like.Take away the damn monster that spawns while you are trying,all alone,to kill all the other baddies.There are four of them,and another that spawns.At lease give us the chance to get in anyway.Lol!
(yes,..I know tons of you have no problem,.but there are those of us who just cannot seem to kill those jerks at the gate) XD

Khenarthi · November 2015

Digerati wrote: »

For every one PvEr who jumps on the forums and wants to push the focus away from PvP, there's 50 people who would absolutely love to play ESO if it weren't for all of the PvE you have to do to gain access to the PvP...

Do you really believe PVPers outnumber PVErs 50 to 1?! And thar ESO is all about PVP?

As someone who enjoys all aspects of the game but with a preference for questing... I 'm astounded at your estimate.

I_killed_Vivec · November 2015

Khenarthi wrote: »

Digerati wrote: »

For every one PvEr who jumps on the forums and wants to push the focus away from PvP, there's 50 people who would absolutely love to play ESO if it weren't for all of the PvE you have to do to gain access to the PvP...

Do you really believe PVPers outnumber PVErs 50 to 1?! And thar ESO is all about PVP?

As someone who enjoys all aspects of the game but with a preference for questing... I 'm astounded at your estimate.

As demonstrated by the release of Wrothgar - give the PvEers some new PvE to do and they abandon IC. At which point you get PvPers complaining how empty IC has become...

I wouldn't be surprised if a ridiculously large proportion of players are playing ESO because it's the nearest thing to a new Elder Scrolls game, and love Wrothgar because it looks so much like Skyrim. They might see PvP as an unexpected bonus, they might hate it. But what they really want is "Skyrim Online".

olsborg · November 2015

Keep hakeijo(enchanting) and other items such as that to IC only, that brings incentive to keep hunting/pvping there.