pronkg wrote: »

Dual wield provides more power instead of utility. Basicly matter of preference

How does it provide more power? Aren't the passives all made for stamina?

5% dmg increase for DW

Thanks guys!

TheHereticMonk wrote: »

Weirdly spell damage scales off max magicka and weapon damage.
As dual wield with the passives provides the most weapon damage it therefore provides the most spell damage.

That's not true, is it? Spell damage is its own thing like weapon damage.

Junkogen wrote: »

TheHereticMonk wrote: »

Weirdly spell damage scales off max magicka and weapon damage.
As dual wield with the passives provides the most weapon damage it therefore provides the most spell damage.

That's not true, is it? Spell damage is its own thing like weapon damage.

Spell damage does not scale off max magicka. Magicka skills however do.

all weapons provide spell damage however only destruction and restoration skills scale of spelldamage and max magicka.

Dual wield provides The highest spell damage if you include that dual sword passive which does affect all damage you do

TheHereticMonk wrote: »

@pronkg the more attribute points you have in magicka the greater the damage any magicka based skills do.
I'm 99.9% sure this is correct. If not, I'd be grateful if you could please provide evidence, as all the builds I've looked at indicate it does.

pronkg wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

TheHereticMonk wrote: »

Weirdly spell damage scales off max magicka and weapon damage.
As dual wield with the passives provides the most weapon damage it therefore provides the most spell damage.

That's not true, is it? Spell damage is its own thing like weapon damage.

Spell damage does not scale off max magicka. Magicka skills however do.

Try and read next time. Spell damage is different from Magic damage. Spell damage does not scale of max magicka, magic damage does

@pronkg that was big of you, really appreciate the apology even though I was being dumb and probably deserved it.
This is why I like the eso forums, people are generally cool and friendly.
Anyhow, water under the bridge and all that.

Not sure what you mean about spell damage not being a stat. If I go to my character screen I have spell damage listed next to weapon damage. What I don't have listed is spell power but I see it discussed a fair bit.

I get what you're saying about the champion points tree example. That makes sense.
Equally what @zornyan said about some skills only scaling off max magicka makes sense. In the case of Hardened Ward it does no damage so spell damage wouldn't be a factor with it. Simple.

So if I get what you're saying, both max magicka and spell damage (or spell power even? This needs clarifying) effect the damage done by any offensive magicka costing skill. More max magicka = more damage and more spell damage/power = more damage.

@zornyan stated that for every 10.1 magicka you have you get +1 spell power (where is this spell power stat? This is getting ridiculous I can only find a spell damage stat on my character screen)
@pronkg states that magicka has no effect on spell power.

One of you has to be wrong or else I'm missing something fundamental here.

Either way both max magicka and spell damage and/or power increase damage with magicka costing offensive skills.
How to increase magicka is straightforward.
How to increase spell damage and or power (whatever ) is not. I know jewlery enchants do it and also weapon damage does. But if increasing your max magicka doesn't then how else do you?

I'm really sorry if I'm being stupid here, I just want to get my head wrapped around this and then we can all get back to playing ESO!
There's a lot of conflicting (and unclear) information on this subject out there.

@pronkg Thank you!

That is much clearer now. So now I can just forget about worrying about spell power and further confusing myself.

I can confirm 100% that you are right and increasing magicka has no effect on spell damage (feel free to roll eyes and say I told you so). Before your most recent post, in an attempt to figure it out myself, I did a full respec and put one point into magicka, used a spell, checked damage rinse and repeat. Yes, it was a huge waste of gold but strangely satisfying.

I misunderstood @zornyan. What they were saying was that, for spells which scale off magicka and spell damage, one point increase in spell damage increases the damage output of a spell by the same amount as 10.1 points into magicka.
So this goes to show, gaining a point in spell damage is ten times more effective than gaining a point in magicka with regards to increasing the damage delivered by a spell.

So glad this is sorted now!

Again, a huge thank you for holding my hand and getting me there

TheHereticMonk wrote: »

Funnily enough this answers the other thing I was wondering; which is better Mage or Apprentice stone?
Clearly Apprentice unless you really, really like Wards.

You're welcome.

Apprentice provides a little bit more dmg I think yes. It all depends on your build and preference, I keep tweaking and gaining higher overal stats, I love that about this game. Just hit a 33.400 crystal frag crit today and I'm positive I can gain more

zornyan wrote: »

TheHereticMonk wrote: »

Funnily enough this answers the other thing I was wondering; which is better Mage or Apprentice stone?
Clearly Apprentice unless you really, really like Wards.

Not necessarily ,

For instance say you only have a 20% buff to spell power, but say, by using a set of skills you get 30% buff to magicka.

Using a raw bonus can then equal more, for instance swapping from mage to apprentice changes my tooltip on puncturing sweeps by 8 points of damage. Yet I find 2k more magicka far more resourceful than 200 odd spell damage, as although my damage is basically identical, my resource is now far higher too.

True,

I haven't calculated it exactly on my sorc so I don't know why, but I seem to hit way harder with apprentice.
And resources are no issue for me usually

In hindsight that was a poor analogy as quantum physics is maths based, the great universal language.
But you get my drift.

They really do need for information for the sheet (plus fix the bugs)

They need to clarify that spell damage is a completely independent stat, not the totality of other stats.

They need to show how max magicka and spell damage effect the amount of damage from spells.

Only here do we learn 10.1 magicka equals 1 spell damage.

They need to show what spell damage actually translates into stats.

So for each 1 spell damage how much damage more would a spell do?

I would like the mundus stones to show the actual stats provided.

So 10.1 magicka translates to 1 spell damage, however this is not reflected in the character sheet right? As example if I increase my magicka by 1010 the character sheet would not show spell damage increase of 100?

Imo it seems like increasing magicka means more spells and more damage, while spell damage is just slightly more damage?

And there is no stat shown for magicka cost reduction?

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS logic: What makes better for magic users? 2 metal swords.

There is logic behind this.

The logic is they want users to be able to use more weapons to vary their builds. The reason close range weapons provide the most spell damage is because you're at disadvantage cause you can't use light and heavy attacks from range causing you not to load any ult regeneration. So typically magicka builds use dual swords on their back bar for finishing skills or for example Overload on sorcs. Using it as main weapon is not viable as dps.

As for having no stats on consoles. Zenimax stated they are working on combat text, so be patient. Increasing spell damage and magicka does show on the tooltip of all your skills that are affected. You can see it change. However your crit damage/ spell penetration etc these numbers you'll
Never see without addons.

As for any magicka user I would say getting between 3 and 4 k spell damage while having between 40 and 50k magicka is close to a maxed out build.