Devs can not ignore truth about IC

nordickittyhawk · November 2015

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

You make it sound like because you pve you can't defend yourself against a player? Surely a dedicated pve player will have a certain setup, like dps and healing, and have experienced some of the hardest content in game.

Gankers are the single easiest targets for me, they all usually follow the same cookie cutter build, and have zero defence. Just have a little awareness and don't leave yourself widely open to attack, I see stupid things though, like players farming mobs and not waiting 5 secs in between to regen resources, so relying on heavy attack weaves etc.

how do you defend yourself vs 2-3 NB hiding in the corner who attacks you when you are low HP from fighting the mobs?

have more players? your out matched? ... then try escape... or die to a sweeper? thats like saying oh im 2 people and zerg is coming in cyrodill... admit defeat

Korah_Eaglecry · November 2015

With their schedule. I have to question if they ever will get back around to addressing IC in its current state.

zornyan · November 2015

As above, infact I think pve players are the worst in IC as they ball group up in massive zergs and troll through the sewers.

Also I've near enough exclusively been in IC since release, I've been ganked approx 8 times in total, and only twice did they kill me. But I always deposit anything over 2k stones, with my average being 3k per hour, maybe more I'm happy to lose that if needed.

Tandor · November 2015

I know and respect the fact that IC is a PvP DLC, but the fact is that they'd sell a lot more copies and have more people in IC if there was a PvE instance of it with a direct access from the main open world. A lot of pure PvEers will have been put off by all the zerg reports, and others won't even have given the DLC a moment's thought from the outset because of the PvP element. Limiting a DLC to one playstyle inevitably restricts its appeal and long-term popularity.

Docmandu · November 2015

IC is nothing more than an NB ganker playground.. for other classes, there are way too many mobs in there and most of them do way too much damage.. I don't mind getting a mob add during a fight, but when that mob is 5x more dangerous than the PvP player you're fighting, something is wrong.

Fact that you can't do 3 steps without running into a pack of mobs, doesn't help.. or 2 steps and running into an NB, since that's all that's left down there.

We knew from a start that it was going to be NB heaven.. nothing was done to balance it out, so this is what we're left with.

Xendyn · November 2015

I'd be happy if they just put it back to what it was supposed to be.
Access objectives and District control.

zornyan · November 2015

Docmandu wrote: »

IC is nothing more than an NB ganker playground.. for other classes, there are way too many mobs in there and most of them do way too much damage.. I don't mind getting a mob add during a fight, but when that mob is 5x more dangerous than the PvP player you're fighting, something is wrong.

Fact that you can't do 3 steps without running into a pack of mobs, doesn't help.. or 2 steps and running into an NB, since that's all that's left down there.

We knew from a start that it was going to be NB heaven.. nothing was done to balance it out, so this is what we're left with.

Wtf are you talking about? Mobs aren't difficult at all, I've got my vr7 templar in there atm and none of the mobs pose a relative threat bar the bannermen.

I normally do a big loop in areas pulling groups of 8-12 mobs at a time.

Enodoc · November 2015

Since we're doing ideas for improving IC (PvP Objectives FTW!) I thought I'd drop in a link to my thread:
District Control Concept and why Imperial City needs it

temjiu · November 2015

As a mostly PvE player, I gotta say that IC doesn't attract me much. I took a break and recently came back to the game, IC was out in-between those times. I have very little reason to go there honestly.

I wouldn't be surprised if a large portion of the PvE base that was in there on IC release was ONLY in there because there was nothing else, literally, for them to do to gain better gear/stats/whatever. it was the new endgame, so unless you wanted to repeat what you were doing for months before that, you tried IC.

I don't think IC is bad at all, sounds like a great place for PvP and some hybrid mixed battles. I'm actually happy that they may revisit it for our PvP players. But I don't think it will ever get back the populations it had before, simply because there are other options now, and there are many players who would avoid PvP zones if they could. so +1 for IC love! But if it's all the same, ill cheer you from the sidelines

Rex-Umbra · November 2015

Bump IC was so disappointing mostly because of all the load screens.

Gilvoth · November 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are looking at Imperial City updates in the future but will give more details on those as they get on our Development server. Many suggestions here are being taken into account regarding any changes to IC.

in morrowind, the sewers of mournhold lead us to one of the dark brotherhood sanctuaries.
could the imperial city sewers do something similar in the future for eso?
i hope they do

JD2013 · November 2015

I certainly would like to see new things added to Imperial City, because it is a big and gorgeosu area with nothing to do except collect TV Stones.

Brian Wheeler has now indicated they are looking into new things for it, so we shall see.

A district control/capture the flag mechanic seems fun, but there needs to be something in place to discourage zergs to control the districts.

Some more quests would be welcome, too. For shiny rewards!

nordickittyhawk · November 2015

JD2013 wrote: »

I certainly would like to see new things added to Imperial City, because it is a big and gorgeosu area with nothing to do except collect TV Stones.

Brian Wheeler has now indicated they are looking into new things for it, so we shall see.

A district control/capture the flag mechanic seems fun, but there needs to be something in place to discourage zergs to control the districts.

Some more quests would be welcome, too. For shiny rewards!

The giant bosses stop that

Lefty_Lucy · November 2015

DISCLAIMER: Incoming cold hard truth.

@nordickittyhawk I love your original suggestions. All of these things would give people a reason to go to the Imperial City. Right now on PC NA, I don't even waste my time trying to find PvP in the IC anymore. It's dead. Done. Empty.

Your suggestions would help solve the problem of the IC being useless, but I believe a bigger problem still exists. Even if all of your suggestions were implemented, we would still have zergs running around to accomplish these objectives. That's a problem. That's been the problem since beta. Zergs.

I would still be disappointed with PvP in ESO if these changes were implemented, because they don't solve the largest problem with ESO's PvP content.

The PvP content in this game has never focused on the individual and their skill level. It has always focused on how large the group of players is. That is a damn shame. It tears me apart, because I love this game's combat so much, but I hate this game's PvP content. It could be so good. But instead, it is absolute garbage.

We need structured small scale PvP. We need it. If anyone thinks small scale PvP is unnecessary ESO, it's only because they can't visualize the potential it has.

It doesn't even have to be arenas. What happened to the PvP portion of the Justice System? Zergs won't exist in true open world PvP like this. What about a duel feature? Anywhere in the open world, interact with someone and request a duel. What about a death match feature? Again, anywhere in the open world, form a group and interact with another group's leader to initiate a XvX structured fight.

These things existed in Tera. If they existed in ESO, this game would be so much better.

I'm sorry. I hate to say this. But this game is dead if small scale PvP doesn't come soon. The current content (both PvP and PvE) in this game will not support a lasting healthy population. I believe twitch is a good indication of how healthy a game is. ESO has never had a good presence on twitch, and it never will without structured small scale PvP. Never. It's already dying on twitch.

This game has challenging combat that would be rewarding on an individual level if only we had a system for small scale PvP. I have been begging for this since Beta. Literally. My first evaluation of this game pleaded for better PvP content that did not reward you just because your group was larger.

The Imperial City is just as rewarding to zergs as Cyrodiil is. Just because there are tight hallways instead of big open fields doesn't mean small scale PvP will happen.

What saddens me is I think it's almost too late for ESO. PvP has always been an afterthought. The *** step child of content in this game.

I don't want to quit ESO. I just wish I wanted to play ESO still.

Heartbroken. Truly.

Alucardo · November 2015

Lefty_Lucy wrote: »

...

I wish I could agree more than once. Small scale PVP really is needed. I've been in a few small scale resource fights that went on for an hour, and people were having an absolute blast. Nobody even cared about the actual resource itself, they were just having fun with open field, small scale PVP. It was the most fun I've had in ESO since I started, and I'm not even joking.
If we had more of that, this game would be near perfection, and Cyrodiil would light up once again. Nowadays I'm seeing a lot of people in Wrothgar, because PVE is more entertaining than getting crapped on by zerg trains.

Oh, you know what happened on nonvet last night? Two AD vet groups decided it would be a good idea to join Blackwater to help AD get emp. They sure succeeded. After DC and EP became completely demoralised they logged, and the ones left were no where near enough to stop anything from happening, so they went out to gank.
They could literally take two keeps at once and there was nothing anyone could do about it. How is this fun? Why would I want to log on to a mess like that?

But hey, no worries. We got Wrothgar, then Thieves guild is coming, and player housing. Meanwhile Cyrodiil will still be broken for the people who enjoy this game for PVP.

I'm with you on the last part as well @Lefty_Lucy . I have no intention of quitting, but I wish I had a reason to log on each day. Hard to explain, but I'm feeling kind of empty right now. The joy is gone.

Aimora · November 2015

Bunneh wrote: »

You just don't get it, do you? Many of us enjoy PvE, and whilst we may join PvP in Cyrodil periodically, it's entirely elective. Placing fun PvE questing and sewer running in a ganker's paradise merely frustrated many of us PvE focused players.

I speak for my friends and myself when I say we were tired of losing our stones to tiresome kiddie NB's who wait for people fighting bosses etc. to be low on hits, then jump in, steal stones then DS off, or CP loaded untouchables/time-rich grinders who need an entire zerg to take down wander around slaughtering small groups etc.

The appearance of Orsinium was a blessed relief, and meant we could put the frustrations of IC behind us, and give two fingers to the gankers who are now QQ'ing here.

The increased mats supply means we can now craft v16 armour sets and not have to rely on running quests with ridiculous drop rates with mechanics that some players simply find too difficult to cope with, for whatever reason.

I just wished they had made a PvE only version of IC for the ones that want to go there but don't want to PvP

Alucardo · November 2015

Aimora wrote: »

I just wished they had made a PvE only version of IC for the ones that want to go there but don't want to PvP

It basically is a PVE version now. I literally find nothing down there but mobs.

Aimora · November 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Aimora wrote: »

I just wished they had made a PvE only version of IC for the ones that want to go there but don't want to PvP

It basically is a PVE version now. I literally find nothing down there but mobs.

Yay super may go in there finally to do the quests

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · November 2015

Telvar stones should never have been lootable. By making them lootable they ensured that 90% of the player base would have nothing to do with IC once they could avoid it.

Now the stones have become irrelevant but the damage is done, the place has gotten the reputation as an annoying ganker heaven. It is the gankers (and insane concentration of mobs everywhere) that caused the zergs in there btw.

They could get people back in there if they made it worthwhile for the pve player base to enter like being able to buy any of the dropped set items from the expansion for a good amount of stones plus player to player loot being taken out of the game.

Then when people actually have a reason to go there, you can introduce all kind of fun pvp elements.

Personofsecrets · November 2015

I actually enjoy sewers the most when there is a low population there. It's nice to not encounter zergs non-stop, but still get good fights.

hrothbern · November 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are looking at Imperial City updates in the future but will give more details on those as they get on our Development server. Many suggestions here are being taken into account regarding any changes to IC.

Happy to hear that. IC is a grand setting for fantastic fights.

The OP sounds as a very good approach to me !

Completely others are possible as well.

At this moment I name IC for myself "Ganker City".
And that gave me a thought for a completely other direction than OP.
Why not refocus Imperial City (NOT the Sewers) to Duelling?
The IC DLC was for PVP. Small scale PVP would fit well and it could still be combined with OP.

And of course, once in a duel, other players cannot help. After the fight a cool down time etc.
The thrill of ganking, or being ganked is great. But going solo being ganked by a Group is IMO a waste of enjoyable play time.
Working out details would become a wall of paper.
So here just the thought.
But it would also be great if it would be possible to handle not only 1 vs 1 duels but also 2 vs 2 etc.
Of cours, with most players going solo, most duels will be 1 vs 1.
Imagine.... roaming through IC with a group of 4, picking up loot and XP along the way, and ready for duelling with any other group of 4. I would really enjoy that challenge !

NoMoreChillies · November 2015

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

have more players? your out matched? ... then try escape... or die to a sweeper? thats like saying oh im 2 people and zerg is coming in cyrodill... admit defeat

so your answer to getting ganked is to roll with more people.......ZERG.

Jura23 · November 2015

Speaking about IC, I little bit envy reds on EU server. They own the gated campaign long term, so they can farm IC all day long with no risk.

Justice31st · November 2015

Yea, night blade gankers ruined Imperial City for me. I won't go back unless to grind some champion points on fast spawning mobs.

Sandmanninja · November 2015

If they removed PvP altogether, this game would be perfect.

Gankers complaining that there are no PvE'ers to prey upon.
Serves them right.

Just introduce a PvP Flag concept and then everyone wins.
Say, You can only change your flag status either at your base or outside IC (just like changing normal/vet mode in a dungeon).
That would keep people from removing their flagged status while in the city.

Justice31st · November 2015

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

Bunneh wrote: »

You just don't get it, do you? Many of us enjoy PvE, and whilst we may join PvP in Cyrodil periodically, it's entirely elective. Placing fun PvE questing and sewer running in a ganker's paradise merely frustrated many of us PvE focused players.

I speak for my friends and myself when I say we were tired of losing our stones to tiresome kiddie NB's who wait for people fighting bosses etc. to be low on hits, then jump in, steal stones then DS off, or CP loaded untouchables/time-rich grinders who need an entire zerg to take down wander around slaughtering small groups etc.

The appearance of Orsinium was a blessed relief, and meant we could put the frustrations of IC behind us, and give two fingers to the gankers who are now QQ'ing here.

The increased mats supply means we can now craft v16 armour sets and not have to rely on running quests with ridiculous drop rates with mechanics that some players simply find too difficult to cope with, for whatever reason.

This pretty much sums it up
PVE players got farmed by Gankers = Gankers the only ones having fun.

^This. Wouldn't be surprised if op is a night blade.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · November 2015

IC should have been a regular PVE update. Everyone told them IC was a horrible idea. It only encourages grief play. Of course noone wants to go back there after they get whatever it was they wanted. Noone wants to be killed and looted by other players. Killed maybe but not looted. Its not fun hence why the place is deserted not even 3 months after launching basically.

Meanwhile Orsinium is packed with people. So hopefully Zenimax learns from this debacle and doesnt ignore its base to try and make itself into some uber pvp game.

kongkim · November 2015

Sandmanninja wrote: »

If they removed PvP altogether, this game would be perfect.

Gankers complaining that there are no PvE'ers to prey upon.
Serves them right.

Just introduce a PvP Flag concept and then everyone wins.
Say, You can only change your flag status either at your base or outside IC (just like changing normal/vet mode in a dungeon).
That would keep people from removing their flagged status while in the city.

That would ruin the game for sooo many. PVP flaging is something for the wors in any pvp game.

Helgi_Skotina · November 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

IC should have been a regular PVE update. Everyone told them IC was a horrible idea. It only encourages grief play. Of course noone wants to go back there after they get whatever it was they wanted. Noone wants to be killed and looted by other players. Killed maybe but not looted. Its not fun hence why the place is deserted not even 3 months after launching basically.

Meanwhile Orsinium is packed with people. So hopefully Zenimax learns from this debacle and doesnt ignore its base to try and make itself into some uber pvp game.

Then just dont go to IC because it is a PvP zone. And it is designed to kill and loot players. Play orsinium.

pronkg · November 2015

zornyan wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

IC is nothing more than an NB ganker playground.. for other classes, there are way too many mobs in there and most of them do way too much damage.. I don't mind getting a mob add during a fight, but when that mob is 5x more dangerous than the PvP player you're fighting, something is wrong.

Fact that you can't do 3 steps without running into a pack of mobs, doesn't help.. or 2 steps and running into an NB, since that's all that's left down there.

We knew from a start that it was going to be NB heaven.. nothing was done to balance it out, so this is what we're left with.

Wtf are you talking about? Mobs aren't difficult at all, I've got my vr7 templar in there atm and none of the mobs pose a relative threat bar the bannermen.

I normally do a big loop in areas pulling groups of 8-12 mobs at a time.

yeah tanky as you probably are you take ages killing those mobs. And don't forget you are battle leveled. Try any other class built for pvp/dps at v16 and you'll notice the difference.

Meanwhile with the proper gear finally I was able to kill 1 of the banner men solo lol gave me 1200 tell var stones

Still I think the mobs being tough is fine. NB is just ridiculously OP in imperial city environment that's why people stop playing the DLC, it's just annoying and frustrating, so yeah there's better content out there which doesn't do that to people.