Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

And once the "new" players ( I can only assume you meant new players when referencing the "catch-up" mechaninc with the way your post is worded...) get within a certain percentage of established players' CP, then the catch up mechanic cancels out. The new players will still be behind the more established players, and then the grind kicks in and it will be much worse than it is now.

New players will only progress at the same rate once they have actually caught up, otherwise they will continue to converge on the more established players. ZOS can continue to tweak the scaling formula over time to insure that the gap never gets too large.

In any MMO the people who play more will always be ahead of those who play less, not much can be done about that. This system is the closest ZOS has come to making it so that casual players are not so terribly far behind.

kupacmac wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

And oh yeah, no one has come up with an argument for the new system beyond "oh it will make the game more alt-friendly because CP is account-wide so gear and stuff will be immediately available."

That in itself is a huge upgrade. Alts are an incredibly important asset to an MMO. They keep people playing.

Also, several people have mentioned several other perks to this conversion, including but not limited to:

Freedom to go anywhere and do anything to earn CP.

Not being forced to do group content in order to progress (Craglorn)
One leveling system.

In a nutshell:
Freedom.

There were non-issues because you could already do them and like Geemarc said, could be addressed without removing veteran ranks.

Right so now they are addressing those issues AND giving us the added bonus of not having to level up alts past 50. How is that NOT a better system than leaving vet ranks in place and giving us those freedoms but still requiring people to level alts individually?

I'm getting the impression that people voting that the new system is worse than VR are really voting this is worse than just removing VR (and not having any progression after level 50). That's 2 completely different things.

Then why not go all the way? When you create a new character it's has everything that you highest character already has. So no levelling at all. There has already been a thread about researched traits being shared with all alts. No matter which why you look at it for alts, you still have to train your mount on it (1,200 hours for that to happen) get their crafting levels up if you are that way inclined, and get to level 50.

They brought in a CP cap because people cried like hell when some ground out like no other and got 900 CP, gaining the achievement to spend 300 CP in Mage, Thief and Warrior and they became monsters in PvP because of this. CP level is going to rise beyond 900, this is inevitable. The new system is going to do very little for the casual player. Yes they will get 10 CP a day, but the monsters are already waiting for them. We know that all xp gained after we reach the current cap in CP is going to be banked. So those monsters have a massive head start. The casual player is never going to catch up. The Monsters of PvP will always be at CP cap.

We know that gear level is going to be tied with amount of CP earned. I think an example given was V16 gear is going to require 160 CP. Well, how long before people start calling for 300 CP gear, then 500 CP gear. Why would I get 1 skill point for every 10 levels up to 160 CP, should I not get a skill point for every 10 CP earned? Get ready for these questions because that is what will come next. What keeps people in MMOs is the chase, not the grind. Make the chase fun, people hang around. And chasing The Monsters of PvP is not going to be fun. Them bitter pills better have a sweet coating.

Is battle levelling going to be effected by CP?

So now people have to grind cp's to wear gear which means some of us, even though we've been max level but maybe don't have a lot of cp's will all of the sudden not be able to equip top tier gear? How will this effect crafting?

One pro I see about this is making a new char and getting to lvl 50 you will have all your cp's, so leveling alts will be even more of a breeze...

Turelus wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

A lot of posters are neglecting the fact that with each CP cap increase the formula for earning CP will also change. So players with low amounts of CP will always earn CP quickly at first especially as the cap continues to increase. Also, these same players are assuming that the CP requirement for gear will be high or that there will be excessive power creep on these new sets, which has no information to suppport it at this time. Keep in mind that CP are an account-based stat so even if you have a new acccount, once you reach the required CP amount then all of your characcters will also have that amount of CP. It is far simpler than having to level every alt up to the max level.

But for all of that, why do we need the gear based of CP? Why not have flat rates for level 50 gear and let progression come from the CP levels.

Then we can finally have all sets equal and start seeing balance passes on them tweaking them here and there to change the meta but without the "this one has bigger numbers because you number is bigger thus you should wear it".

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them. We do know that level 50 items will be better than level 46 items but that does not mean it translates to CP restricted items. We also have no idea how high these CP requirements will go. If the current v16 items are converted to 160 CP, then using the new formula that is like v5 (or less with enlightenment). Also, CP progress is universal for every character on an account so once a characcter reaches level 50 they will have no leveling left to do if that acccount has the required CP already. It is a far better solution than needing to regrind every character on an account to the new max level.

I will admit that there are potential concerns but without more evidence these are simply unfounded at this point. Once we get more information then we can make suggestions for ZOS to improve the system but based on what information we have the new CP requirement is vastly superior to the current veteran ranks. For now, most of the concerns over the new system are based on worst-case scenarios and have no basis (at least not yet).

vamp_emily wrote: »

Does anyone have the link to the discussion where they talked about why they decided to remove vet levels and what their plans are? I tried searching for it but kind of got lost in the results.

I don't know if I like the fact that they are removing vet levels, but I personally am liking champion points. What I like about it the most is how you can make your character a little different than other characters; depending on where you put your points.

It's been planned for well over a year- here's one of the discussions; there are probably more you can find on the Developer Discussions page:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/143784/champion-system-clarification/p1

Champion Points were always intended to replace Veteran Ranks.

It sounds awful. Imagine this will create more gaps between players and max level gear, more grind, more ____s to give, and I'm about out of those.

This is a much more fluid system. They should have launched with something more like this.

Also, they need to remove Cadwell's silver & gold and just make the world completely open. I should be able to encounter other alliances in all zones (but not fight them because it isn't contested territory). There is enough PvE content available now that they don't have to force you to do quests in other alliance areas. Can I get an amen?

wayfarerx wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

So now people have to grind cp's to wear gear which means some of us, even though we've been max level but maybe don't have a lot of cp's will all of the sudden not be able to equip top tier gear? How will this effect crafting?

They described the VR to CP conversion that will keep everyone able to wear their current (in some cases top-tier) gear. Add in the catch-up mechanic and the fact that you can progress evenly on any alt you feel like playing at the moment and I'm really not sure what the problem is.

There was only 2 options so I default went with the fear change option The poll needed an I'm ambivalent option.

For example if leveling alts is easier, then that is a great bonus. If there are champion rank crafting mats, then that is more of what people don't really want.

I am getting the very distinct impression that most of the people unhappy with this conversion do not want any type of progression. Sounds to me like a lot of people aren't upset because Vet Ranks are being removed, they are upset because Vet Ranks are being replaced with a different form of progression. I'm getting the impression that people were hoping for some kind of hard cap on character levels that would stay forever.

Maybe that's what ES fans want, but I can assure you that the MMO fans want/crave/need progression.

I cannot think of one other AAA MMO that does not increase level/gear caps in increments along with content expansions. Maybe there are a few, but not many. I would love to see a few people come clean, stop suggesting that this conversion is a bad form of progression, and just admit that you are angry because they aren't stopping progression.

The problem is that progression due to level increasing comes with the feeling of regression because a bunch of items are suddenly underleveled. The most noticeable of these items is crafted gear.

The Paragon system was why I permanently quit Diablo 3.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

The Paragon system was why I permanently quit Diablo 3.

While I enjoy the Paragon system in D3, I also have a character that is Paragon 300+.

But in the same light as running everything off of CP, my son who has a character who just hit Lvl 70 in D3, looks at my Paragon level and it really crushes his will to try to adventure with me.

I see the same issues with trying to run post-lvl50 off of nothing but CP.

Arreyanne wrote: »

So does this mean caldwells is now off the table and 1-50 alliance areas are all one character can do?

i hope not