I'm with Rayste... I do not understand the point in removing them. They're free skill points....

Is the pvp community just butt hurt they have to level a little bit more before they can join their mindless zergs for a few days and then hop to the next game like they always do...?

I do not understand removing VR levels either... I almost have 7 VR16s now...

Jitterbug wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

Will this incentivize more people to return to the game?

Yes.

Also, Vet Ranks was a poor solution to a demand from the forums, reviewers, and youtubers (immense, thick, unruly whine) to see all content on one character. They knew it was bad when they did it, but sort of pre-launch panicked I think.

You know, even now I hear people tell me they heard Angry Joe said the game sucked so they didn't want to play it?

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

Will this incentivize more people to return to the game?

Yes.

Also, Vet Ranks was a poor solution to a demand from the forums, reviewers, and youtubers (immense, thick, unruly whine) to see all content on one character. They knew it was bad when they did it, but sort of pre-launch panicked I think.

You know, even now I hear people tell me they heard Angry Joe said the game sucked so they didn't want to play it?

Hah! Just remembered those Shoddyboys hyping it up as the game to end all games of all time only to be disappointed it didn't live up to their expectations. ^.^

Alphashado wrote: »

Vet ranks are a terrible game design for many reasons that have been discussed endlessly. You can find hundreds of threads discussing all these reasons by doing a forum search. They are sloppy design, and it's even worse now with v15/v16 in relation to crafting and gear.

Mainly though, vr1 is such a shock to people that have just finished the main story, that it turns many people away. Such a drastic change to the leveling format at level 50 is shocking to people who thought they were close to level cap..... Then they realize quite rapidly that they aren't even close to cap. It's bad design.

Yeah that's the thing.

Finished the marathon, yay. Nope. Once more, from the top. 3 times and change.

Xendyn wrote: »

Yes, I remember soo many newer players coming into the guild.

player: Yay! I made it to 50! I beat Molag Bal!

us: Grats, you're now 1/3 of the way thru...

player:

future will be: all those exp you just did dont count and you are at 1/10 on the way ...

One thing I saw mentioned in the AUA on reddit, they are thinking of linking gear to champion points. So every new character you get to 50 would be able to use the same level gear as you other existing maxed characters.

Prior to launch, fans made it clear that they wanted as open-world an experience as possible, like with previous TES titles. We would have been restricted to one faction's zones, which is distinctly the opposite of open-world. A good open-world game requires the ability to go to all of the game's zones on one character.

But rather than making the world completely open from the beginning or making level-cap the point when the world opens up, the entire world was treated as a linear experience. Veteran Ranks are just another level grind to keep the world and content closed off in a linear fashion.

I'm not sure how people keep posting that "they don't understand", people have already explained the 'why' a million times over.

It's to open up end game quicker, making the game accessible to people at level 50 rather than forcing them to grind through two additional factions worth of quests. It's pretty simple, and yeah, by lessening the levelling grind (which was needlessly long in the first place imo) it makes the game much more accessible to new players wanting to play with the friends at end game.

Although. CP discrepancies will cause massive power disparities for people at cap, so I'm not convinced that their current planned solution actually addresses this issue at all.

Trihugger wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

I'm not sure how people keep posting that "they don't understand", people have already explained the 'why' a million times over.

It's to open up end game quicker, making the game accessible to people at level 50 rather than forcing them to grind through two additional factions worth of quests. It's pretty simple, and yeah, by lessening the levelling grind (which was needlessly long in the first place imo) it makes the game much more accessible to new players wanting to play with the friends at end game.

Although. CP discrepancies will cause massive power disparities for people at cap, so I'm not convinced that their current planned solution actually addresses this issue at all.

You pretty much negated your own argument here lol. You're exactly right though, they're trading the vet levels for the CP levels and that will act as the gate to end game. So I ask all of you wizards saying that we've rehashed the point of why vet levels are so bad ad nauseum.... what makes their current plan any different? IMO it has the ability to be far more limiting and time consuming to reach end game, especially with their current end game balance with vMSA being around 300 CP. For reference with the catch up I was around 120 at the end of v16.

When I say I don't understand why they're removing vet levels, I am implying that I also understand what they're trading them for.

Yeah I kind of did, didn't I?

Thing is, their intent is to open up the game, but the reality is that by the sounds of it, they're trading one gating system for another, which doesn't solve the problem at all. Guess coming up with a solution that didn't include numbered progression was too messy a concept but the result looks like we'll have the same problem, just with a different system.

Trihugger wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

I'm not sure how people keep posting that "they don't understand", people have already explained the 'why' a million times over.

It's to open up end game quicker, making the game accessible to people at level 50 rather than forcing them to grind through two additional factions worth of quests. It's pretty simple, and yeah, by lessening the levelling grind (which was needlessly long in the first place imo) it makes the game much more accessible to new players wanting to play with the friends at end game.

Although. CP discrepancies will cause massive power disparities for people at cap, so I'm not convinced that their current planned solution actually addresses this issue at all.

You pretty much negated your own argument here lol. You're exactly right though, they're trading the vet levels for the CP levels and that will act as the gate to end game. So I ask all of you wizards saying that we've rehashed the point of why vet levels are so bad ad nauseum.... what makes their current plan any different? IMO it has the ability to be far more limiting and time consuming to reach end game, especially with their current end game balance with vMSA being around 300 CP. For reference with the catch up I was around 120 at the end of v16.

When I say I don't understand why they're removing vet levels, I am implying that I also understand what they're trading them for.

There is a huge difference between a vr2 character trying to run a v16 dungeon and a 150 cp character running with 350 cp characters. The discrepancy between V1-V16 is MUCH larger than 0-500 CP. especially since CP has diminishing returns and a catch up mechanic that makes the most potent returns easy to get. Plus CP is account wide, therefore alternate characters can enjoy endgame content w/o having to grind through the same endless content.

Alphashado wrote: »

Trihugger wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

I'm not sure how people keep posting that "they don't understand", people have already explained the 'why' a million times over.

It's to open up end game quicker, making the game accessible to people at level 50 rather than forcing them to grind through two additional factions worth of quests. It's pretty simple, and yeah, by lessening the levelling grind (which was needlessly long in the first place imo) it makes the game much more accessible to new players wanting to play with the friends at end game.

Although. CP discrepancies will cause massive power disparities for people at cap, so I'm not convinced that their current planned solution actually addresses this issue at all.

You pretty much negated your own argument here lol. You're exactly right though, they're trading the vet levels for the CP levels and that will act as the gate to end game. So I ask all of you wizards saying that we've rehashed the point of why vet levels are so bad ad nauseum.... what makes their current plan any different? IMO it has the ability to be far more limiting and time consuming to reach end game, especially with their current end game balance with vMSA being around 300 CP. For reference with the catch up I was around 120 at the end of v16.

When I say I don't understand why they're removing vet levels, I am implying that I also understand what they're trading them for.

There is a huge difference between a vr2 character trying to run a v16 dungeon and a 150 cp character running with 350 cp characters. The discrepancy between V1-V16 is MUCH larger than 0-500 CP. especially since CP has diminishing returns and a catch up mechanic that makes the most potent returns easy to get. Plus CP is account wide, therefore alternate characters can enjoy endgame content w/o having to grind through the same endless content.

The account wide element is a good point that I'd forgotten. Still, it'd be nice for people to put 'gating content and gear behind numbers as the only means of progression' to one side to focus on the bigger picture - in game experiences.

To the poster who said that VR ranks are altogether more powerful than CP 1-500....you are wrong, a VR rank gives you mgick/ Stam/ health, skill points and access to better gear. CPs after VRs are removed give magick, stamina and health, no skill points, access to better gear, AND THE CP PASSIVES. its dumb they are continuing the gear gate....THATS the issue with VRs right now isn't the grind to level completely, but the gear gating. If you can imagine vet ranks giving skill points, achievements, dyes, and costumes without being a gear gate, (lvl 50 gear is top gear)...congratulations zos would have just solved the problem of power creep, outdated content...there would still be much we could grind for, and play towards gear wise. The WHOLE GAME would still be relevant! But they are replacing I with cps...so the only thing changing as I see it is account wide leveling which is great...but still, its a slap in the face

Alphashado wrote: »

There is a huge difference between a vr2 character trying to run a v16 dungeon and a 150 cp character running with 350 cp characters. The discrepancy between V1-V16 is MUCH larger than 0-500 CP. especially since CP has diminishing returns and a catch up mechanic that makes the most potent returns easy to get. Plus CP is account wide, therefore alternate characters can enjoy endgame content w/o having to grind through the same endless content.

Your entire argument is using current standards and implying all vr16 gear will be usable as soon as you ding 50. News flash: they will not. For arguments sake, a VR 2 equivalent in CP will be as gimp then as it is now because "good" gear will all require some vr16'esque # of CP's. Idk what is so difficult about this concept. We're replacing one gate for another and LOSING the skill points.

Also, you're ... extremely misinformed if you think 0-500 CP is less beneficial than the 16 VR ranks. The first comparison was much more realistic.

Trihugger wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

There is a huge difference between a vr2 character trying to run a v16 dungeon and a 150 cp character running with 350 cp characters. The discrepancy between V1-V16 is MUCH larger than 0-500 CP. especially since CP has diminishing returns and a catch up mechanic that makes the most potent returns easy to get. Plus CP is account wide, therefore alternate characters can enjoy endgame content w/o having to grind through the same endless content.

Your entire argument is using current standards and implying all vr16 gear will be usable as soon as you ding 50. News flash: they will not. For arguments sake, a VR 2 equivalent in CP will be as gimp then as it is now because "good" gear will all require some vr16'esque # of CP's. Idk what is so difficult about this concept. We're replacing one gate for another and LOSING the skill points.

Also, you're ... extremely misinformed if you think 0-500 CP is less beneficial than the 16 VR ranks. The first comparison was much more realistic.

Due to diminishing returns, the 1st 90 CP are far more potent then the remaining 410 would be. And 90 CP is easy to get and even easier to get with the catch up system. You are assuming the best endgame gear will require the character to be at the cp cap? Do we know this for sure? How do we know it won't be at 350 for example? Nothing is even set in stone yet.