Race and class change

xboxone1Q · October 2015

Is that ever going to happen anytime soon, or do I have a better chance to wait until hell freezes over

Paazhahdrimaak · October 2015

I hope you have to wait that long. I hope those two things are never implemented.
They both are completely unnecessary. If you want to spend crowns buy experience scrolls and start an alt.

xboxone1Q · October 2015

I have a vet 14 Templar, vampire I would like to change my Templar my alt is a vet 1 dragonknight, werwolf. Those are the only two I plan on using, I don't see the need for more than 2. That is why i need an option to change a race or class.

NinjaApacHe · October 2015

I'm in for race change not class.

ferhestr · October 2015

I heard that ZOS is working in the race/name change
Anyone knows if this is going to happen in the near future?
I definitely need this change to get a correct build to mi only V16 character.
I think also that race change and class cjhange are not the same

Jokerz Fury · October 2015

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

I hope you have to wait that long. I hope those two things are never implemented.
They both are completely unnecessary. If you want to spend crowns buy experience scrolls and start an alt.

ew that's a disgusting idea. I can't even get my first character to V1 without getting too bored and taking a long break, and I've been playing since like August of last year or something.

newtinmpls · October 2015

I hope not ever.

Skiserony · October 2015

They mentioned it a long time ago, there was also rumoured (can't actually confirm it) that it was going to be implemented when the races had some adjustment (which was with IC). Now there hasn't been any info about it lately so not sure what their plan is and if they're going to implement it.

I see race change as a good thing because it's not a huge difference and doesn't actually involve to the gameplay much, but class change however will change too much to actually implement it. I don't think class change will happen.

shadowwraith666 · October 2015

Race change i can go along with, but instead of class change i would rather have the ability to buy/unlock the other class skill lines

Ender1310 · October 2015

Race change not class change. Although theoretical it would be more lore friendly for class change. Oddly enough this would solve my problem s too. But I'd rather race change.

newtinmpls · October 2015

shadowwraith666 wrote: »

Race change i can go along with, but instead of class change i would rather have the ability to buy/unlock the other class skill lines

I'd like to see classes dissembled totally.

Cadelay · October 2015

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

I hope you have to wait that long. I hope those two things are never implemented.
They both are completely unnecessary. If you want to spend crowns buy experience scrolls and start an alt.

I agree that class change is idiotic, but being against race change for that reason is an ignorant thing to say.

No, I am not starting a new alt and grinding my 13k achievement points and all my titles just because I didn't know that I shouldn't be a Khajit months ago. Plus they changed racials around on us.

Paazhahdrimaak · November 2015

I have my main with all my in game achievements and skill lines maxed out. And the rest are just for fun. My main makes them awesome armor, they fly through the game. All the alts have different play styles, things they do and won't do. I don't worry about titles and every little single crafting node on secondary characters.
@Cadelay

Your missing out on more than half the game not having other characters.

My theory is a lot of people don't want to start alts is because they bought bag space/ mount carry upgrades from the crown store and don't want to pay in game gold or more real money again for another character.

Alucardo · November 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

I hope not ever.

Agreed, but I have a bad feeling they will

Tito86 · November 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

I hope not ever.

I hope too

TheShadowScout · November 2015

Race change is pretty likely to come, probably either hand-in-hand with, or in the wake of, some "barbershop" character recustomization feature. Since that would fit well with TG and DB stuff, we might see it early in 2016...
Too many people want this for ZOS not to take their money.
I can understand them too, even though I never would change any of my characters just for some ***... uhm... fuggly passives. Yes, not even the nord sorceror or the argonian dragonknight. I build mine as -characters- after all, not as collection of super-effective stats. (I might be using a race change option though if they added new races to the crown store... maormer for example would fit one of my character ideas better then the current race, so that could tempt me... mere effectiveness on the other hand, never)

Class change on the other hand... that is somewhat unlikely to ever be implemented. It would be a much bigger can of worms to code thanks to all the class skills, thus require much more paid code-jockey time, and is desired by a lot less people, since most just make alts for all four classes (many even for each class twice to cover both stamina and magica builds). Thus - much more investment, much less profit, means most likely never be implemented.

Jayne_Doe · November 2015

From an RPG and even a logical perspective, class change makes more sense. Your character would be essentially training in new skills. No longer want to be a DK, then train with a master Templar to change your class. That makes sense to me that someone could change their class with proper training.

What doesn't make sense to me is that someone can go from being a Khajit to an Orc. WTF?? I guess through some dark Daedric ritual, one could change their race, so...fine, I guess.

I understand that race changes might be more palatable since you're only changing a few passives, but would it really be that much harder to implement a class change? Also, does it really affect any balance in the game if suddenly a player had a new Templar to play rather than their old DK, as opposed to rolling a new alt?

newtinmpls · November 2015

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

From an RPG and even a logical perspective, class change makes more sense. Your character would be essentially training in new skills.

<snip>

What doesn't make sense to me is that someone can go from being a Khajit to an Orc. WTF?? ?

Yup!

TheShadowScout · November 2015

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

What doesn't make sense to me is that someone can go from being a Khajit to an Orc. WTF??

As opposed to going from, say, Dunmer to Argonian, or Breton to Goblin, or... Orc to Monkey? Yeah, all those happen in the game, thanks to alchemy or cursed artifacts.

Its in the lore.
There is precedent.

Not to mention, they could still decide to forego any in-character changes, and go for a OoC "character retcon" mechanic instead.
Though I really would prefer former... visit some alchemist in coldhabrour, drink the mystical potion, wake up in a changed body, that sort of thing...

Jayne_Doe · November 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

What doesn't make sense to me is that someone can go from being a Khajit to an Orc. WTF??

As opposed to going from, say, Dunmer to Argonian, or Breton to Goblin, or... Orc to Monkey? Yeah, all those happen in the game, thanks to alchemy or cursed artifacts.

Its in the lore.
There is precedent.

Not to mention, they could still decide to forego any in-character changes, and go for a OoC "character retcon" mechanic instead.
Though I really would prefer former... visit some alchemist in coldhabrour, drink the mystical potion, wake up in a changed body, that sort of thing...

Guess you didn't read the sentence immediately following what you quoted above. Go back and read my original post and you'll see that I did make allowance for some mystical transformation. Also, the ones currently in-game are all temporary, not permanent. And, I'm fine with race change, it's just that class change to me seems to be as logical a change (i.e. receiving new training) as a race change (from some Daedric ritual or whatever).

TheShadowScout · November 2015

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Go back and read my original post and you'll see that I did make allowance for some mystical transformation.

I did read that. Just saying, sufficiently advanced alchemy can do it too, and that would seem way more accessible then asking Clavicus Vile for a favor, getting wabbajacked or something in form of "daedric ritual"

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Also, the ones currently in-game are all temporary, not permanent.

Not so.
There is no indication the ones I referred to are temporary, although they can be reversed.
The Dunmer in Greenshade turning himself Argonian through a potion trying for Khajiit? No indication he did not expect the transformetion to be permanent! Not his fault that his alchemy skill just wasn't up to the right task... okay, so it IS his fault, but that doesn't mean a better alchemist cannot get the potion right for the correct race

The people (including poor Stibbons) in Rivenspire getting Goblinized through the emerald chalice? Permanent unless some mage works on reversing the transformation.
The orc in Sentinel that got turned Monkey? You have to do the quest to get the alchemist to give you the reversal potion. The people getting turned rat or dog in the same quest? Every indication this is a permanent state of affairs (especially the dog transformation would be... iffy for the wife if merely temporary...)

There are temporary transformations as well, agreed. Skin-stealer questline in Shadowfen. Werewolves. Etc. But that doesn't figure into the matter at hand.

Though I have to agree, "new training" to adjust your class would be a lot more easy to come by then an alchemical race change potion.
However... new training -usually- doesn't make you forget all your old training, yes? Thus "class change" would not be the right way to depict that...

If anything, I would like to see "new training" implemented as some sort of "class morph"... perhaps like the notion I often post when the topic comes up...

Personally I would think the best way to add more "classes" is to give each class, say, three different "class morphs", each with its own new skill/passives line. Perhaps becoming available after completing cadwells silver/gold... to reward people who do play through that – which incidentally would also give people the whole of cadwells gold to focus on making this new skill line… (a "reward" for finishing cadwells gold might be some alliance change quest, but that is another topic, to be discussed elsewhere…)
Some possibilities:

Dragonknight
• Gladiator (offensive self buffs & warcries; color: red/orange)
• Pyromancer (flame resist and even more fire; color: yellow/blue - gas flame!)
• Warlord (defensive group buffs, AoE standards, color: purple/gold)

Nightblade
• Illusionist (illusion summoning, mind magic; color: red/black - NPC illusionist)
• Monk (melee support & assorted “matrial arts” magic; color: blue/purple)
• Ranger (animal summoning and nature magic; color: brown/green)

Sorceror
• Cryomancer (ice magic, color: white/clear - NPC cryomancer)
• Necromancer (death magic and undead summoning; color: cyan - NPC coldfire)
• Spellsword (melee support & buff magic; color: yellow/orange – golden lightning!)

Templar
• Shaman (nature magic, totems, summons; color: green/brown)
• Crusader (melee support and aura-style buff magic; color: white/gold – holy light)
• Witch-hunter (counterspells, spell resistance/shields, silencing; color: purple/red)

Another possible idea was to not only have an added skill line with its own flavor of visual effects, but maybe even morph the existing effects to match.
So for example if a sorceror goes necromancer, their spells might be color-shifted to necromancer "coldfire" cyan, and if they turn cryomancer, their dark magic crystals will turn ice-ish in effects, spells will get color-shifted to white-blue or white-purple, or a nightblade going ranger would have their reddish effects recolored to something nature-ish green & brown... that sort of stuff. For more visual goodieness and varietee between classes.
Perhaps even morph the spell effects to some degree... like, for summoned armor might look daedric on normal sorc, worm cult / lich on necromancer, and ice armor on cryomancer, etc.
That idea might perhaps take a bit too much coding to be viable though... I'd be happy with pure color shifts.

...of course, all those quick ideas are just very rough concepts, without much consideration but character fluff. I merely tried to give some options, and went for three instead of just two "magica-specialization / stamina specialization" - It's supposed to be more for added character diversity then anything else after all.

Thus for example with nightblades, there might be one magica-caster based with "illusionist", one stamina melee based with "monk" (Yes, a nod at the old D&D class of the name, the first “martial arts” powered class I remember in fantasy gaming) and one pet based as "ranger" since nightblades mesh very well with bow, and giving them woodland creatures for the "hunter" playstyle would seem applicable.

Similar thoughts for the sorceror - spellsword for stamina sorcerors, cryomancer since ice staves have no matching skill line yet (while fire and lightning staves sort of have), and necromancer because all too many people really, really want that...

Templar... the druid/shaman is a very natural idea, between breton wyressess, argonian treeminders and bosmer spinners, nature magic meshes very well with Templar healing and sunlight-powered spells; crusader is for stamina templars as the class name has been appearing in TES games before, despite tamrielic religions having less a focus on "cross" then where the name originated, and my "witch-hunter" idea is kinda inspired by the spanish inquisition (Yes, I know noone expected that ), its "warhammer" imperial counterpart and also "Dragon Age", I admit it... seems logical to set up the aedric-flavored templars as natural enemies of the more deadric-flavored sorcerors...

Dragonknight I had the fewest ideas, since I kinda dislike that class. More fire magic for dragonknight magica-casters with pyromancer is a natural first thought... so then I went with "leader-style group play support" and "berserker-style single combatant" flavors, though there may be better ideas then those...

The skills itself are also just rough concepts - some I am quite happy with, others I feel might benefit from more thought and ideas… but it's a start I suppose, a proof of concept kind of notion, something like that… with ample room for refinement and reworking.
(also note that many of those I "borrowed" from existing mobs without knowing the actual in-game name of the abilities, just by remembering what I could from the time some mob used them unsuccessfully against one of my characters, so please, don't get too hung up on the names I used here, all right? )

In any case, since more diversity is always something I would love to see... much more fun having more choices in realizing your "perfect" character, especially since the limited number of skills one can actually use at any one time (5+U) makes people having to think and choose anyhow, so adding more active skills only increases a characters choices, not exactly their power...

And yes, spellcrafting might be able to cover some of those... but spellcrafting won't give you passives, which these skill lines should.

Jayne_Doe · November 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Go back and read my original post and you'll see that I did make allowance for some mystical transformation.

I did read that. Just saying, sufficiently advanced alchemy can do it too, and that would seem way more accessible then asking Clavicus Vile for a favor, getting wabbajacked or something in form of "daedric ritual"

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Also, the ones currently in-game are all temporary, not permanent.

Not so.
There is no indication the ones I referred to are temporary, although they can be reversed.
The Dunmer in Greenshade turning himself Argonian through a potion trying for Khajiit? No indication he did not expect the transformetion to be permanent! Not his fault that his alchemy skill just wasn't up to the right task... okay, so it IS his fault, but that doesn't mean a better alchemist cannot get the potion right for the correct race
The people (including poor Stibbons) in Rivenspire getting Goblinized through the emerald chalice? Permanent unless some mage works on reversing the transformation.
The orc in Sentinel that got turned Monkey? You have to do the quest to get the alchemist to give you the reversal potion. The people getting turned rat or dog in the same quest? Every indication this is a permanent state of affairs (especially the dog transformation would be... iffy for the wife if merely temporary...)

There are temporary transformations as well, agreed. Skin-stealer questline in Shadowfen. Werewolves. Etc. But that doesn't figure into the matter at hand.

Though I have to agree, "new training" to adjust your class would be a lot more easy to come by then an alchemical race change potion.
However... new training -usually- doesn't make you forget all your old training, yes? Thus "class change" would not be the right way to depict that...

If anything, I would like to see "new training" implemented as some sort of "class morph"... perhaps like the notion I often post when the topic comes up...

Ahh...yes, thanks for reminding me of those quests. When you mentioned Goblin, I was thinking of the quest in Stonefalls, where you can temporarily change yourself into a goblin with the Shadowsilk Gem and as for Monkey, I was thinking of the quest where you are temporarily changed into a monkey to get through a certain area (can't remember which quest).

I like your idea of morphing the classes into specializations (ala Dragon Age). Quite some good initial concepts, too. Thanks for the good read!