Rally or Critcal Surge?

Scora · November 2015

As a stamina sorcerer im having trouble deciding one which to use?

They both seem good with Rally being a more reliable heal while Critical Surge is dependent on me getting Critical hits but has the potential for giving huge heals.

what's your preference? ^^

Emma_Overload · November 2015

You can do most PvE with just Surge. You're probably going to want to add Rally for PvP, though, because crit heals become incredibly unreliable against human players for some reason.

Alucardo · November 2015

Yeah I use both. Crit surge alone is fine in PvE, especially in public dungeons and such. The more things surrounding you, the better.
But as Emma said, use Rally in PvP if you can. It's too good and reliable to pass up. Crit surge is great in tight spaces packed full of players, like inside keeps.

ADarklore · November 2015

As others above noted... Rally works great against single targets, whereas Critical Surge really shines against mobs- the more targets, the more critical heals you receive.

lynog85 · November 2015

Scora wrote: »

As a stamina sorcerer im having trouble deciding one which to use?

They both seem good with Rally being a more reliable heal while Critical Surge is dependent on me getting Critical hits but has the potential for giving huge heals.

what's your preference? ^^

both

Groggolo · November 2015

You will need a very high crit chance values to make use of critical surge in PvP, as many people run impenetrable equip

Marukeru · November 2015

Groggolo wrote: »

You will need a very high crit chance values to make use of critical surge in PvP, as many people run impenetrable equip

Well, if one uses a 2H weapon for the charge, that is a free critical every time, right? Of course stacking CritChance as well is a nice boost in chance to heal, but Critical Charge seems to be an ideal match for the Critical Surge skill.

Stannum · November 2015

I use surge for PvE.
For PvP i use crit surge on one bar and Forward Momentum on another.

Septimus_Magna · November 2015

Groggolo wrote: »

You will need a very high crit chance values to make use of critical surge in PvP, as many people run impenetrable equip

I dont think many players still use impenetrable tbh.

Crits have become more reliable in pvp, blocking and dmg shields still give 100% crit immunity though.

Septimus_Magna · November 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Groggolo wrote: »

You will need a very high crit chance values to make use of critical surge in PvP, as many people run impenetrable equip

I dont think many players still use impenetrable tbh.

Crits have become more reliable in pvp, blocking and dmg shields still give 100% crit immunity though.

Edit: the more interesting question is what weapons you should use for your DW and 2H bar on a stam sorc.

Jumper45 · November 2015

Id say depends on your crit chance. If its high surge if not rally.

Ahzek · November 2015

PvE (especially Group content) surge is more than enough.
PvP I use both due to reasons stated above.
(note 100% crit chance doesnt help against shields)

f047ys3v3n · November 2015

Mmm, crit surge and build for crit. Precise, Hundigs, Briarheart. It is like Briarheart was made for stam sorcs. I switched to this in PVP from my magica Templar. It is like twice the damage output in most fights. Though the heals are a bit less in solo and small fights they are massive when the zergs collide. I can't believe what I can survive through now and how high the DPS numbers are. I'm sure a lot of that it that magica is a steaming pile of feces when compared to spinning blades in PVP but I'm still quite enamored with being able to heal with that dps. I have also grown very enamored with the way everything on a stam sorc seems to synergize. My heal key is also my major weapon damage buff and lasts a freaking long time. On a magica build the only major spell damage buff is a worthless 12 second skill that needs a target to cast and does basically no damage.

Lovin the stam sorc with the crit surge. It's like a PVP dream machine.

Cathexis · November 2015

I have found rally to be generally more useful but it hinges on a lot of things: damage, crit, if you actually want to use 2 hand, healing bonuses, how many people you are fighting.

Personally I think people overvalue surge, I find the heals very circumstantial - often too circumstantial.

cschwingeb14_ESO · November 2015

If you want to rely on surge, you need to have enough mitigation to last you through a break free and attack on someone that might dodge roll a couple times. That's why rally+surge is so good

ADarklore · November 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

Personally I think people overvalue surge, I find the heals very circumstantial - often too circumstantial.

You mean situational? Yes, situational because Surge doesn't do much against single targets, where it shines is against mobs as long as you have high critical strike chance. Nothing like going in against a swarm of adds, using Critical Surge and Steel Tornado, and hardly seeing your health drop at all as you cut them all down.

Without the high rate of critical strikes seen against mobs, using Critical Surge against a single target for healing is pretty pointless and that is where Rally would be a better choice.

Stannum · November 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Personally I think people overvalue surge, I find the heals very circumstantial - often too circumstantial.

You mean situational? Yes, situational because Surge doesn't do much against single targets, .....
Without the high rate of critical strikes seen against mobs, using Critical Surge against a single target for healing is pretty pointless and that is where Rally would be a better choice.

Really? In PvE it's almost any DPS build has more then 40% crit chanse and indeed it's usually near 50% so you have every second hit healing in avarage that's with high stamina sorc armour (bound armament + thundering presence) gives sorcs very high survivability. And when you need garateed heal you always may use crit rush. And another point is 2% dmg surge provides when you have it on the bar.
So PvE builds need surge only.
In PvP you need all the healing you can get so it's good idea to have both surge and momentum on different bars, but I prefer not rally morph but fotward momentum as it gives you shot immobilize/snair immunuty.

ADarklore · November 2015

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Really? In PvE it's almost any DPS build has more then 40% crit chanse and indeed it's usually near 50% so you have every second hit healing in avarage that's with high stamina sorc armour (bound armament + thundering presence) gives sorcs very high survivability. And when you need garateed heal you always may use crit rush. And another point is 2% dmg surge provides when you have it on the bar.
So PvE builds need surge only.

You also do realize that Crit Surge's healing is based upon damage done, right? Which means that against mobs using Steel Tornado, your damage done will be much higher than against single targets... hence the reason Crit Surge is best against mobs IMO. Any healing is better than none, but Surge against single targets with 50% crit, you're only getting healing half the time and even then it's based on your damage output. Rally on the other hand is a constant healing that isn't affected because it isn't tied to crits or damage done, hence the reason it's better against single targets IMO.

Stannum · November 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Really? In PvE it's almost any DPS build has more then 40% crit chanse and indeed it's usually near 50% so you have every second hit healing in avarage that's with high stamina sorc armour (bound armament + thundering presence) gives sorcs very high survivability. And when you need garateed heal you always may use crit rush. And another point is 2% dmg surge provides when you have it on the bar.
So PvE builds need surge only.

You also do realize that Crit Surge's healing is based upon damage done, right? Which means that against mobs using Steel Tornado, your damage done will be much higher than against single targets... hence the reason Crit Surge is best against mobs IMO. Any healing is better than none, but Surge against single targets with 50% crit, you're only getting healing half the time and even then it's based on your damage output. Rally on the other hand is a constant healing that isn't affected because it isn't tied to crits or damage done, hence the reason it's better against single targets IMO.

Seems like you do not understand the mechenics. Surge heal has cd, each hit of tornado has separatelly counted crit chance, so you can be healed only by one target hit anyway. So spamming tornado will heal you on cd, on single target attack you will crit aproximitelly 1/3 more rare (with 50%) but if you compare dmg from tornado one-target strike and from WB you will realize that overall healing will not be less.

ADarklore · November 2015

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Seems like you do not understand the mechenics. Surge heal has cd, each hit of tornado has separatelly counted crit chance, so you can be healed only by one target hit anyway. So spamming tornado will heal you on cd, on single target attack you will crit aproximitelly 1/3 more rare (with 50%) but if you compare dmg from tornado one-target strike and from WB you will realize that overall healing will not be less.

Seems YOU don't understand... true you can be healed by only one target hit at a time... but you have more chances to hit a target critical more frequently with Steel Tornado in a mob than you do using Steel Tornado against a single target.

Stannum · November 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Seems like you do not understand the mechenics. Surge heal has cd, each hit of tornado has separatelly counted crit chance, so you can be healed only by one target hit anyway. So spamming tornado will heal you on cd, on single target attack you will crit aproximitelly 1/3 more rare (with 50%) but if you compare dmg from tornado one-target strike and from WB you will realize that overall healing will not be less.

Seems YOU don't understand... true you can be healed by only one target hit at a time... but you have more chances to hit a target critical more frequently with Steel Tornado in a mob than you do using Steel Tornado against a single target.

Again what's more efficient when you are healed 3 times by 50% of 7k strikes or 2 times by 50% of 15k strikes during the same period?

EgoRush · November 2015