@Geemarc

I Agree with you on about 95% of that. They DO need a viable measure of progress post 50, and it needs to be something regular and consistent. And they can't just drop VR...that would be disastrous. But I do feel that they plan on making the transition worth it...otherwise they wouldn't be taking so much time and effort on it.

The key is providing a stead and measurable path to progression, without making it into a typical "level cap cycle" seen in most MMO's. I think this is where the CP system had it's origins. The first time I saw something like this was Diablo3 with their paragon points (I'm sure it started earlier then that, but thats where i was exposed to the "dual" leveling system). VR in many ways is a "dual" leveling system, where you go from 1-50, then start another style of leveling.

I think the biggest issue is simply that VR doesn't really do anything except provide a much slower methodology of tracking your progress. And if you've been monitoring the threads on the subject, you can easily see how many people are unhappy with the pace of exp in VR. Even if they did nothing more then switch the 16 VR levels to 30 regular levels (as mentioned in a few threads), this would alleviate allot of frustration with players. Sounds over-simplistic, but It would make a difference.

That still won't solve the problem of long term progression...the reason the CP are here in the first place. Ultimately we'll have to see their solution overall...personally, I'd be happy with just having CP. But i can understand why others would want another method of measuring progress. We'll see what they come up with.

I think the biggest roadblock is that in spite of the lack of anything of measurable value with VR levels (except a measly 16 skill points), they DO provide an easy way to lock out gear. it's the lazy MMO's way of saying, "this gear is too high for you, you need to progress your character more before you can wear it." I perhaps shouldn't say lazy as much as easy. it's doable in other ways, but it does take careful planning and utilizing other mechanics in it's place.

But they have plenty of time. with Thieves guild/DB on the horizon, it's still 6 months out or more (given a 3 month DLC cycle). And they've been working on it for awhile now. But I think the larger reason behind this is it's more then just getting rid of VR levels. The previous Elder game in ESO WAS the VR levels. i think people don't necessarily see it this way all the time, but it's the truth. At game release, there WASN'T anything to do except Caldwell. so what other MMO's start doing at level cap (raiding as a popular example), we did caldwell instead. even with the addition of craiglorn, the elder game in ESO wasn't much to scream about. so they're not just getting rid of the VR levels. Indeed, they realized that the elder game they designed wasn't working. So were not just seeing a changing in leveling curve, were seeing a restructuring of the elder game.

On a side note I didn't realize that the console editions were so limited! (I only play PC). That would be frustrating, and I hope they do add more QoL to the consoles, sooner rather then later.

I remember some info that Vet ranks were planned to be removed after Orsinium.
Orsinium was originally planned to have Vet 18.
"after Orsinium" could be seen as: Removal of Vet rank once they are "Vet 20"

Because there were a lot of people upset during IC that Orsinium would come at Vet 18. Upset because of the high amount of difficult to get Mats, Orsinium came as Vet 16.


So... the following scenario is a bit speculative.....
If they plan to coincide removal as intended with level 20.
We see the 2016-Q1 DLC (Thieves Guild?) as Vet 18.
and the 2016-Q2 DLC (Dark Brotherhood?) as "Vet 20" and the removal of Vet ranks.

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

It's not only possible, it will make the game infinitely better.

Can you explain how please .


ZOS has said they are not going to revamp end game so silver and gold is not going away just access it differently. The only thing I can think of is making the leveling curve the same from 1 to 66 or whatever the new end level would be.

Did you not read the 1.5 pages of discussion after that comment? Just pointing out that there are plenty of reasons discussed there. I don't feel the need to repeat them.

And to the point of silver/gold going away, I do agree that it can't and shouldn't...but it does need to be changed drastically. There simply isn't enough elder game material outside of silver/gold yet to actually get to the "cap", whatever it may be once VR is dead. But there are definitely a few areas I think silver/gold could improve (adding for purpose of discussion):

1) open questing, no more being locked behind the story (a.k.a linear progress). all areas unlocked...no more having to run Ebonheart pact after Alderai Dominion, etc.
2) one server. put veterans in same instances that levelers are in. no more isolating someone because they are a veteran. I remember when i first hit vet levels and went to the main city and wondered where everyone was. There were about 2 people there...period.
3) IF we have Levels at that time (say, they drop VR and go with lvls 50-80 or something like that), then the gap between needs to be shorter.
4) silver/gold needs to scale like orsinium. personally, I think they should have scaled in the reverse direction. that would have made it 10x easier to combine both Vet areas and 1-50 areas, as the vets could scale to the level of those areas, and play and quest with the lower level players and actually feel like they are in the area, not just sightseeing.

although this is a thread about VR, I do think it's important to discuss S/G as well, in addition to the other possible things they would need to do to make the transition a reality. There is a ton of things that need adjustment. Gear, group instancing, crafting, etc. BUT...I think it's worth it. VR in it's design is self limiting, it's forcing players into an overly long progression path with little reward, it forces players into the MMO pit of endless gear recycling, and it makes adventuring in lower areas redundant. creating a more flexible progression path (CP is an example of a good start) allows them much more creativity and openess in creating/adding new elder game areas.