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Needed balance changes for Veteran Maelstrom Arena!
Zinaroth
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Having finished Veteran Maelstrom Arena as a Nord Stamina Templar I have a couple of things that HAS to change in there to make it a better experience.
Overall I am happy with the tuning, but some things do stand out in there and warrant a change.
My clear was specially difficult given I am playing what is probably THE worst class/build for soloing, whether it's of PvE or PvP nature.
But this is not a rant about the terrible spot Stamina Templars are, I am sure ZOS in their divine wisdom already know how to make us more viable in the upcoming class balancing, instead I will focus on the arena:
Currently people have to spend several hours inside an arena, personally it took me five hours for my clear. I do realize that as you practice it gets better, but this is a very long time commitment, especially for me.
- I propose a system where you can continue on your arena progress, like on normal, so I can continue my progress the next day.
The auto attacks from mobs are way too high; the worst are the archers! When you have more than one of these spawning it becomes a fuckfest with spamming dodge roll and heals. Insane incoming unavoidable damage is never a fun mechanic. The melee dudes are not too bad since they can be kited, and the casters do not hit very fast so they are okay, however the archers are ridiculous!
- I propose to nerf the auto attack damage of certain mobs in there by 25-50%.
The Serrated Blades on stage 2 are too penalizing; not only are you getting penalized majorly for being melee but it works double - you're taking damage from standing in them AND they stack a bleed on you.
- I propose either making the bleed cleanseable (let us Templars actually benefit from our class abilities like everyone else please?), making it not stack or removing it alltogether. No need for a double edged penalty system.
The Lamie Queen on stage 3 melee hits for too much; 9k hits on me wearing medium armor (no I was not using an armor buff because Templars don't have a reliable one unless spamming Rune Focus every 7-8 seconds)
- I propose nerfing her auto attack damage by about 25%.
The ranged mobs on stage 5 stay in the frozen water, and you have to endanger yourself by either running out there and try to kill them fast as melee, or try to awkwardly drag them on to a platform by running out into the water on the opposite side, dragging all manner of crap with you.
- I propose that ranged mobs either spawn on a certain platform and will never leave that platform, making you able to go out of range by going through water while getting shot at to another platform OR make the ranged mobs only attack you when they are on a platform and not in the middle of frozen water.
The nightblade mobs on stage 6 still has the sparks ability (which was removed from the game), rendering you unable to hit them, this is even more frustrating as a templar since it renders us unable to hit ANY NEARBY MOBS with our channeled Jabs.
- I propose removing this ability, it does not provide any depth to the arena.
The flowers in stage 7 do not respawn between tries and sometimes you start out with very unlucky location because you wiped and they are still there, thus having to use a speed buff and try to clear as many without getting hit, as possible, before the stage begins.
- I propose removing all flowers when you wipe and only having three spawn around the arena as you ress again, more will come during the fight anyway, surely, and you won't start out at a disadvantage.
The lightning casters that spawn and is supposed to provide a shield for the boss in stage 7 sometimes take way too long and you die from the boss, furthermore as a Templar I am sometimes having a horrible time aiming my Jabs correct (because it has some *** aiming mechanic since 1.6), this means I am sometimes very unlucky and I hit the mob with the knockback, removing the shield and again dying to the boss.
- I propose you make them cast the shield faster and possibly give them CC immunity during the cast. It's not like you need to CC them during that anyway and you can still kill them should you want that.
The behemoths that spawn in stage 8 and are warded with a stone melee hits for over 10k auto attacks on my Stamina Templar in medium gear, even when the stone is down, this is too much.
- I propose you nerf his auto attack damage by around 25%.
The fire casters throughout stage 8 and during the boss fight spawn at very inconvenient times, just when you get the 3 stones down, during your short window of time where you can damage the boss. I guess this is intended and it is fine, but you either have to kill these adds when they spawn, or try to survive the fire wave special attack they do.
- I propose forcing the fire casters that spawn during the boss fight to instantly start their channeled attack so you can go and interrupt that if you please, and return to boss while still having them auto attack you. This will still promote skillfull play but lessen the disadvantage melee have during this entire stage.
The daedroths on stage 9 are *** ***, I think I speak for everyone when I say that this *** needs to be fixed. They will fire breathe on you and FOLLOW you while doing so, dealing immense damage, it does not make it better when there are other adds around OR during the last boss where it's making every single melee guy pull the hair off his head in frustration.
- I propose either making the fire breath a cone attack and forcing the daedroth to stand still OR nerf its damage by 50% OR root the daedroth in place while he breathes but still allow him to turn towards you, making it an attack where you want to get some range on him. The last one would just make ranged even stronger in here so I would lean towards solution one or two. But this *** needs an immediate fix!
The nightblade mobs on stage 9 have Soul Tether which they will fire off at a random time. I have not had too much problems with this, but if you're unlucky they will completely annihilate you. This is a normal mob using an instant non telegraphed ability that hits insanely hard and CCs you, it adds to the RNG and it does not promote depth.
- I propose you remove this ability from their arsinal, it's enough that they have whirlwind, which hits hard aswell, but which you can avoid.
The Spectral Explosion (or whatever it is called) synergy from gathering three ghosts during the boss fight on stage 9 is not usable in WW form! I have tested this 4-5 times and each time I couldn't use it and died to the OP breath spamming daedroth (which also needs fixing). This is basically forcing me to hold off my WW until the daedroth spawn and I have used the synergy, making it insanely hard to set up a burst phase on the boss.
- I propose you fix this bug?!
With the above changes in mind the arena would still be really difficult and you would still have to be on your toes, but you would get rid of a big number of those "WTF" moments where you just have magically appearing incoming damage which killed you in 0.5 seconds because you weren't mid dodge roll. I hope you guys agree, if not please tell me what you disagree with below and why you disagree.
I sincerely hope that ZOS employees read this post, and hopefully there will be some fixes if not already tomorrow, then in the coming week, for some of the issues I listed here.
Edited by Zinaroth on November 9, 2015 4:30PM Overall I am happy with the tuning, but some things do stand out in there and warrant a change.
My clear was specially difficult given I am playing what is probably THE worst class/build for soloing, whether it's of PvE or PvP nature.
But this is not a rant about the terrible spot Stamina Templars are, I am sure ZOS in their divine wisdom already know how to make us more viable in the upcoming class balancing, instead I will focus on the arena:
Currently people have to spend several hours inside an arena, personally it took me five hours for my clear. I do realize that as you practice it gets better, but this is a very long time commitment, especially for me.
- I propose a system where you can continue on your arena progress, like on normal, so I can continue my progress the next day.
The auto attacks from mobs are way too high; the worst are the archers! When you have more than one of these spawning it becomes a fuckfest with spamming dodge roll and heals. Insane incoming unavoidable damage is never a fun mechanic. The melee dudes are not too bad since they can be kited, and the casters do not hit very fast so they are okay, however the archers are ridiculous!
- I propose to nerf the auto attack damage of certain mobs in there by 25-50%.
The Serrated Blades on stage 2 are too penalizing; not only are you getting penalized majorly for being melee but it works double - you're taking damage from standing in them AND they stack a bleed on you.
- I propose either making the bleed cleanseable (let us Templars actually benefit from our class abilities like everyone else please?), making it not stack or removing it alltogether. No need for a double edged penalty system.
The Lamie Queen on stage 3 melee hits for too much; 9k hits on me wearing medium armor (no I was not using an armor buff because Templars don't have a reliable one unless spamming Rune Focus every 7-8 seconds)
- I propose nerfing her auto attack damage by about 25%.
The ranged mobs on stage 5 stay in the frozen water, and you have to endanger yourself by either running out there and try to kill them fast as melee, or try to awkwardly drag them on to a platform by running out into the water on the opposite side, dragging all manner of crap with you.
- I propose that ranged mobs either spawn on a certain platform and will never leave that platform, making you able to go out of range by going through water while getting shot at to another platform OR make the ranged mobs only attack you when they are on a platform and not in the middle of frozen water.
The nightblade mobs on stage 6 still has the sparks ability (which was removed from the game), rendering you unable to hit them, this is even more frustrating as a templar since it renders us unable to hit ANY NEARBY MOBS with our channeled Jabs.
- I propose removing this ability, it does not provide any depth to the arena.
The flowers in stage 7 do not respawn between tries and sometimes you start out with very unlucky location because you wiped and they are still there, thus having to use a speed buff and try to clear as many without getting hit, as possible, before the stage begins.
- I propose removing all flowers when you wipe and only having three spawn around the arena as you ress again, more will come during the fight anyway, surely, and you won't start out at a disadvantage.
The lightning casters that spawn and is supposed to provide a shield for the boss in stage 7 sometimes take way too long and you die from the boss, furthermore as a Templar I am sometimes having a horrible time aiming my Jabs correct (because it has some *** aiming mechanic since 1.6), this means I am sometimes very unlucky and I hit the mob with the knockback, removing the shield and again dying to the boss.
- I propose you make them cast the shield faster and possibly give them CC immunity during the cast. It's not like you need to CC them during that anyway and you can still kill them should you want that.
The behemoths that spawn in stage 8 and are warded with a stone melee hits for over 10k auto attacks on my Stamina Templar in medium gear, even when the stone is down, this is too much.
- I propose you nerf his auto attack damage by around 25%.
The fire casters throughout stage 8 and during the boss fight spawn at very inconvenient times, just when you get the 3 stones down, during your short window of time where you can damage the boss. I guess this is intended and it is fine, but you either have to kill these adds when they spawn, or try to survive the fire wave special attack they do.
- I propose forcing the fire casters that spawn during the boss fight to instantly start their channeled attack so you can go and interrupt that if you please, and return to boss while still having them auto attack you. This will still promote skillfull play but lessen the disadvantage melee have during this entire stage.
The daedroths on stage 9 are *** ***, I think I speak for everyone when I say that this *** needs to be fixed. They will fire breathe on you and FOLLOW you while doing so, dealing immense damage, it does not make it better when there are other adds around OR during the last boss where it's making every single melee guy pull the hair off his head in frustration.
- I propose either making the fire breath a cone attack and forcing the daedroth to stand still OR nerf its damage by 50% OR root the daedroth in place while he breathes but still allow him to turn towards you, making it an attack where you want to get some range on him. The last one would just make ranged even stronger in here so I would lean towards solution one or two. But this *** needs an immediate fix!
The nightblade mobs on stage 9 have Soul Tether which they will fire off at a random time. I have not had too much problems with this, but if you're unlucky they will completely annihilate you. This is a normal mob using an instant non telegraphed ability that hits insanely hard and CCs you, it adds to the RNG and it does not promote depth.
- I propose you remove this ability from their arsinal, it's enough that they have whirlwind, which hits hard aswell, but which you can avoid.
The Spectral Explosion (or whatever it is called) synergy from gathering three ghosts during the boss fight on stage 9 is not usable in WW form! I have tested this 4-5 times and each time I couldn't use it and died to the OP breath spamming daedroth (which also needs fixing). This is basically forcing me to hold off my WW until the daedroth spawn and I have used the synergy, making it insanely hard to set up a burst phase on the boss.
- I propose you fix this bug?!
With the above changes in mind the arena would still be really difficult and you would still have to be on your toes, but you would get rid of a big number of those "WTF" moments where you just have magically appearing incoming damage which killed you in 0.5 seconds because you weren't mid dodge roll. I hope you guys agree, if not please tell me what you disagree with below and why you disagree.
I sincerely hope that ZOS employees read this post, and hopefully there will be some fixes if not already tomorrow, then in the coming week, for some of the issues I listed here.
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MLRPZ✭✭✭✭✭Some fixes are good, some are too much, we need to keep this instance HARD and by hard I mean, you have to be proud of yourself when you get you're shiny a*s out of there with you bound on pickup lootAD // Marc the Epic Goat // Templar // AR50
EP // The Goatfather // Templar // AR44
AD // Unforgoatable // Sorc // AR33
EP // You Goat Rekt // NB // AR28
EP // Bill Goats // Swarden // AR28
AD // Goat Ya // NB // AR24
AD // Unforgoatten // StamDK // AR 21
DC // Egoatcentric // Stamsorc // AR16
and many unused PVE chars
REMOVE FACTION LOCKAoE RatsRIP Zerg SquadRIP Banana Squad IncNot your typical goat2 -
Kaliki✭✭✭✭I agree with almost all of your points. Very good summary of some of the problems that cause RNG-based deaths that are not fun.
Only the fire casters in arena 8 I think is just your rythmn - I remember killing them before/waiting for them to spawn and had no problem.
And about the Daedroths: can't you just strafe sideways and make a tight circle around them to be faster than them?
I am a magicka templar so they are easier by default due to harness magicka, so I might ne wrong. Just noticed that I can survive them pretty well in melee range.- Templars: Slower by Design® -0 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭The clear response Is "roll sorc" or L2P. I have yet to L2P on my DK so I guess it's time to /roll sorc.Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB2 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some fixes are good, some are too much, we need to keep this instance HARD and by hard I mean, you have to be proud of yourself when you get you're shiny a*s out of there with you bound on pickup loot
Which are good? Which are too much?I agree with almost all of your points. Very good summary of some of the problems that cause RNG-based deaths that are not fun.
Only the fire casters in arena 8 I think is just your rythmn - I remember killing them before/waiting for them to spawn and had no problem.
And about the Daedroths: can't you just strafe sideways and make a tight circle around them to be faster than them?
I am a magicka templar so they are easier by default due to harness magicka, so I might ne wrong. Just noticed that I can survive them pretty well in melee range.
Thanks. Yeah I know it's about rhytm, but the time between fire caster spawning and the two fire atronachs spawning is about 15 second. But you might be right.
I pop Quick Cloak for the daedroths and run around them in circle, this WILL help me avoid SOME of the ticks, but they rotate really fast so it's not reliable. Also doing this will most likely disorient yourself in the arena because you need to run so fast. It's not a viable solution IMO and shouldn't be needed. The daedroths are the biggest problem in the entire arena and the most important one to fix. It is a brick wall for every stamina user going in there to the point of absurdity.0 -
Ichnaea✭✭✭✭Save feature - Yes please
Archers - Tweak damage a little in mobs. Argonian archers are annoying but don't need to be nerfed. A good cc on one while dps'ing other works really well. Lightning splash + rune prison is awesome for this. DK reflect and SB reflect are good as well.
Stage 2 - My easiest stage. Blades are a pain but I've practiced so much now that I honestly never even hit them (don't use levers at all anymore). Walk in direction of outer blade...when it starts to get close wait for next blade in to pass and follow it. Pass outer blade and go back on that track. Repeat. Bleed stack could be fixed anyways.
Stage 3 Lamia Queen - 25% is too much I feel. The whole fight is supposed to be a kite/slow dps fight with dps only being done at scream/poison launch/lightning, and kiting the rest of the time. When I'm not kiting I am killing adds or dps'ing her. 5%-10% damage on claw strikes I would say.
Stage 5 - My hardest stage (other than 9 of course). The ogres/archer combo is stupidly hard. If you don't kill them fast enough more crap spawns and you have an entire funeral procession following you. Your funeral. I agree with your points on this.
Stage 6 NB mobs - Agree
Stage 7 flowers - RNG does not have a place in "difficulty". Agree on this one.
Stage 7 boss - RNG point above. Still an easy boss regardless of RNG. Agree
Stage 8 behemoths - Don't really have a problem with this stage. I also am a magicka sorc so I don't know the tribulations of other classes. I would say 10% - 15%
Stage 9 Crematorial Guards (guardians?) - Yea, the bane of the entire arena. There are mechanics/skills that make them easier but they still hit too hard and are too fast. I agree with your points on this...wholeheartedly. They are the reason I haven't finished the boss fight...well it was 8:30 in the morning as well and I'd had enough.
Stage 9 NB's - Agree. RNG point above.
Stage 9 Spectral Explosion - I'm not a WW but agree it's a bug/not working as intended. Unless Zeni thinks WW for stage 9 is cheese enough, lol. Sorry
All in all, good points and suggestions. The arena is not INSANELY difficult but it could use some small tweaks mostly to do with "lazy difficulty" and RNG. I understand it is meant to be end game content, but I feel your build/class has to be too specific and min/max to do well. If you look at the leaderboards you can tell which classes have it easier or harder. If nerfing Maelstrom makes it easier on classes that have it more difficult, imagine how easy it would be for those that already had it easy (sorc).
This could be an insanely dumb idea but here goes. What if they applied class modifiers based on the leaderboards, and the socres of that given class? 100 sorcs on leaderboard with amazing score gets a modifier of some sort (to a certain max) to make it more difficult. Templars have 15 on leaderboard with average scores so templars get a modifier that decreases difficulty (to a certain max). If you wanted to opt out of modifier that made it easier, you could. If you opted out maybe it would increase your score somehow. This whole idea is probably not fair and would inspire exploiters, but you never know.AD
Mishi - V16 Wood Elf Nightblade
Zach Vane - V16 Imperial Nightblade
Clara Bonny - V16 Breton Templar
Sherman Bradley - V16 Imperial Templar
One Knight Standard - V16 Imperial Dragonknight
Unemployed Merlin - V16 High Elf Sorcerer
Ice Hinged Mice Elf - V16 Dunmer Dragonknight2 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Crematorial guards have been goofy enemies since their introductionEdited by Personofsecrets on November 10, 2015 2:38AM0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There are 3 things in the entire post that I'd support.
1. Save feature.
2. Make lightning casters cast their shield faster.
3. Make spectral explosion work for WW if it really doesn't.Edited by timidobserver on November 10, 2015 2:37AMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)3 -
Saving progress is really good idea .
Still dont have experience of rounds above 6.
I play mag DK so our experiences are somewhat different. For example stage 2 - those spinning blades - i dont need to run , hide almost nothing i just move in opposite direction of spinning blade in order to reduce time of contact with spinning blade. I am holding my ground spamming harness magica and killing. All the way till i clear boss i need maybe 3-4 times to heal up myself.
I agree that difficulty balance should exist across classes and resource drivers ( stam/mag) but it will be almost impossible to achieve.Edited by tino.antoninieb17_ESO on November 10, 2015 7:51AM0 -
Katinas✭✭✭✭The auto attacks from mobs are way too high; the worst are the archers! When you have more than one of these spawning it becomes a fuckfest with spamming dodge roll and heals. Insane incoming unavoidable damage is never a fun mechanic. The melee dudes are not too bad since they can be kited, and the casters do not hit very fast so they are okay, however the archers are ridiculous!
- I propose to nerf the auto attack damage of certain mobs in there by 25-50%.
- This is the ridiculous autoattacks of archers in stage 7. I died in literally one or two seconds after the wave of archers spawn. They spawn spread out and you cannot interrupt or CC them all at once so you get autoattacked for a quarter of your health in an instant from three sides. Stacking shields was the only wayt to survive the initial burst.
- Save feature is a must. Please allow us to save progress and continue the next day or the next time you log in. If that means you disqualify yourself from competitive leaderboards - so be it. Using save feature might lower your score by a factor of "Divide by 100" or something like that so that you would not be able to get a good score anyway.
- The channeled mechanic by the last boss on stage 9 that needs to be interrupted should (upon successfully interrupting the boss) stun all mobs or at least delay their attacks. I do not have a reliable interrupt so I had to rely on a class-based gapcloser which is a publicly known bug since the early days. Toppling Charge is such a clumsy skill which prevents you from swapping weapon and delays your next attack putting you in a position equal to being CC'd. Interruping boss and finding yourself dead because mobs took advantage of you being unable todo anything in the next couple of seconds is just so frustrating.
2 - This is the ridiculous autoattacks of archers in stage 7. I died in literally one or two seconds after the wave of archers spawn. They spawn spread out and you cannot interrupt or CC them all at once so you get autoattacked for a quarter of your health in an instant from three sides. Stacking shields was the only wayt to survive the initial burst.
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Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I really dont think we need nerfs in rounds 2 and 3! Once you learn the mechanics they are not at all difficult even on an non-optimized build.
Here's the thing with the archers and ranged fighters in general on every stage - zoS already is handy out nerf candy in that you can have a buff that reflects every projectile. Just learn when a concentration of ranged adds spawn and grab it. If you don't wnat to use them because you are going for a high score ... that's an ego problem, not the arena is too hard problem.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.1 -
AlcastClass RepresentativeJoy_Division wrote: »I really dont think we need nerfs in rounds 2 and 3! Once you learn the mechanics they are not at all difficult even on an non-optimized build.
Here's the thing with the archers and ranged fighters in general on every stage - zoS already is handy out nerf candy in that you can have a buff that reflects every projectile. Just learn when a concentration of ranged adds spawn and grab it. If you don't wnat to use them because you are going for a high score ... that's an ego problem, not the arena is too hard problem.
That is what I do, but WHY am I as Stamina DD supposed to work with Sigils when Magicka classes simply can bolster incoming dmg with shields.
I also would like to get a high score and with spamming sigils like a crazy dude it aint going to happen.
I can be done in 1h as Stam build, but then i spammed sigils like crazy and I will NOT get the extra points from no sigil used. If I do not use sigils at all, then well I am just dead as f.
Edited by Alcast on November 10, 2015 8:41AMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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iliatha✭✭✭
- This is the ridiculous autoattacks of archers in stage 7. I died in literally one or two seconds after the wave of archers spawn. They spawn spread out and you cannot interrupt or CC them all at once so you get autoattacked for a quarter of your health in an instant from three sides. Stacking shields was the only wayt to survive the initial burst.
so whats the problem ? You have to press your shield or dodge roll button to not die when they spawn. Job done, after that its a fight like every other in arena. Why should it be changed ?[*] Save feature is a must. Please allow us to save progress and continue the next day or the next time you log in.
Why should a feature get implemented that allows you to complete the arena no matter how long you have to play ? If the runs take too long you could just try to get better at the stages that cost you the most time.
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Katinas✭✭✭✭Why should a feature get implemented that allows you to complete the arena no matter how long you have to play ? If the runs take too long you could just try to get better at the stages that cost you the most time.
This feature should get implemented to allow you to complete the arena no matter how long you have to play.Edited by Katinas on November 10, 2015 9:04AM3 -
- This is the ridiculous autoattacks of archers in stage 7. I died in literally one or two seconds after the wave of archers spawn. They spawn spread out and you cannot interrupt or CC them all at once so you get autoattacked for a quarter of your health in an instant from three sides. Stacking shields was the only wayt to survive the initial burst.
so whats the problem ? You have to press your shield or dodge roll button to not die when they spawn. Job done, after that its a fight like every other in arena. Why should it be changed ?[*] Save feature is a must. Please allow us to save progress and continue the next day or the next time you log in.
Why should a feature get implemented that allows you to complete the arena no matter how long you have to play ? If the runs take too long you could just try to get better at the stages that cost you the most time.
Will u explain me - what u have against feature (saving progress) which completely penalize those who use it in regard to score ? How that feature can be detrimental for you ? U do understand that some people dont have on disposal 3-4 hours every time they want to play. Sometimes people have 1 hour or so ... One who is really good as u are probably shouldnt care who just barely completed arena. U should care for people who are on top 20% of leaderboards. Or u find that those who barely completed are your competition ?
Someone who got to stage 10 , received phone call and has to shoot - he could continue later and receive reward - thats fair and i think u shouldnt have any rational argument against that.Edited by tino.antoninieb17_ESO on November 10, 2015 9:11AM0 -
fanta✭I hope they don't nerf the arena, they just need to fix these broken damage/mechanic to be more melee friendly. And most importantly ZoS needs to find a way to fix magicka Sorc's ward, otherwise everyone should just run magicka Sorc for arena, it's way too easy for this class.0
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Preyfar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For me, it's the bugs which get me most. I've not passed Maelstrom Vet 3 because of the Stranglers. They pull me, fling me over across the map, and as I'm being pulled over the water I'm taking damage from the water. Then, once I get I reach the strangler, I instantly teleport back to where I was (instead of being at the strangler like I'm supposed to) and it's REALLY disorientating. In the short span of time while being pulled over the water from across the arena I can rack of 12-15K damage from the water as I'm pulled. And yeah, I get strangler management is a part of it, but stranglers are rather frustrating for melee classes especially since sometimes they respawn instantly the moment the you kill them.
I totally don't mind the challenge of it, but the bugs of constantly teleporting back and forth is irksome.
After an hour of lather, rinse, repeat I gave up. I'd love to continue where I left off, but I can't. Most of the people I know who survived it ended up spending 6-8 hours in there. I don't have that kind of time commitment. I'm DEFINITELY in that camp who wants to be able to continue. I don't care if it hurts or even wipes me score, being able to get in practice without having to slog through every other previously completed stage again would be amazing.
I think ZOS could simply add a save state for the last round you were on, and offer a crystal at the starting area. Smash the crystal, reset the arena. Just give the crystal a timer so people don't endlessly farm the first level.Edited by Preyfar on November 10, 2015 9:55AM2 -
tengri✭✭✭✭✭Saving progress between stages is a must have.
Why is this not there already?
Hey, it's *** solo content and that means I am to do it at my own pace whenever I have the free time.
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Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭timidobserver wrote: »There are 3 things in the entire post that I'd support.
1. Save feature.
2. Make lightning casters cast their shield faster.
3. Make spectral explosion work for WW if it really doesn't.
You're probably playing magicka templar, you should try and fight the daedroths as stamina, and you'd put that on your list too.
My friend @Alcast who also posted in this thread made a great video about this issue, everyone should check it out (don't think anyone can argue that he is not an experienced player and he already completed the arena on all classes as stamina):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrxgprPugpE
But back to the thread...
It's nice to see a lot of people agree with most of my point and it's also nice to see some people who disagree with some of the point voicing their opinion on this thread.
There will always be people who are too elitist to see beyond their own nose tip and don't want anything changed, we should just ignore these people.
To be honest my two biggest points here are:
- the daedroths / crematorial guards
- being able to save progress which in turn penalizes your time score
I feel that with the daedroths being brought in line I could actually succesfully do a run in under 2 hour since it takes me a littler over 1 hour to get to the last stage.
As a final remark I would like to remind all the Magicka Sorcerers posting on this thread that the problems us stamina users encounter in there might not be an issue at all for you guys, so keep in mind you're currently the strongest build in the game at the moment, though most of you have been very humble with this. Modesty is a virtue.
Let's keep the thread ging and hopefully this will reach ZOS!Edited by Zinaroth on November 10, 2015 10:12AM1 -
Kas✭✭✭✭✭The auto attacks from mobs are way too high; the worst are the archers! When you have more than one of these spawning it becomes a fuckfest with spamming dodge roll and heals. Insane incoming unavoidable damage is never a fun mechanic. The melee dudes are not too bad since they can be kited, and the casters do not hit very fast so they are okay, however the archers are ridiculous!
- I propose to nerf the auto attack damage of certain mobs in there by 25-50%.- This is the ridiculous autoattacks of archers in stage 7. I died in literally one or two seconds after the wave of archers spawn. They spawn spread out and you cannot interrupt or CC them all at once so you get autoattacked for a quarter of your health in an instant from three sides. Stacking shields was the only wayt to survive the initial burst.
- Save feature is a must. Please allow us to save progress and continue the next day or the next time you log in. If that means you disqualify yourself from competitive leaderboards - so be it. Using save feature might lower your score by a factor of "Divide by 100" or something like that so that you would not be able to get a good score anyway.
- The channeled mechanic by the last boss on stage 9 that needs to be interrupted should (upon successfully interrupting the boss) stun all mobs or at least delay their attacks. I do not have a reliable interrupt so I had to rely on a class-based gapcloser which is a publicly known bug since the early days. Toppling Charge is such a clumsy skill which prevents you from swapping weapon and delays your next attack putting you in a position equal to being CC'd. Interruping boss and finding yourself dead because mobs took advantage of you being unable todo anything in the next couple of seconds is just so frustrating.
i still take my reflect seal in arena 7, stage 4, wave 3. you can take it right after you killed the previous wave, the archer of the previous wave spawns very close to the reflect sigil. i agree, that doing it without sigils would be nice, but tbh i expect the arena to be nerfed anyway sooner or later and until then, you could even aim for top1 (non sorc??) in a run where you take a couple of high-value sigils
on topic: i agree with almost everything. however, not so much with the conclusion. imho adding some mobs with shieldbreaker ability (like town guards) and a few more that cast negate could balance the whole thing as well. to compensate for the negates etc, the haste sigil could grant cc immunity as well. I'd prefer an arena that is very, very hard for everyone with sigils that make it somewhat doable for the masses but affect your scoreEdited by Kas on November 10, 2015 10:17AM@bbu - AD/EU
Kasiia - Templar (AR46)
Kasiir Aberion - Sorc (AR38)
Dr Kastafari - Warden (~AR31)
+ many others1 - This is the ridiculous autoattacks of archers in stage 7. I died in literally one or two seconds after the wave of archers spawn. They spawn spread out and you cannot interrupt or CC them all at once so you get autoattacked for a quarter of your health in an instant from three sides. Stacking shields was the only wayt to survive the initial burst.
-
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »There are 3 things in the entire post that I'd support.
1. Save feature.
2. Make lightning casters cast their shield faster.
3. Make spectral explosion work for WW if it really doesn't.
You're probably playing magicka templar, you should try and fight the daedroths as stamina, and you'd put that on your list too.
My friend @Alcast who also posted in this thread made a great video about this issue, everyone should check it out (don't think anyone can argue that he is not an experienced player and he already completed the arena on all classes as stamina):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrxgprPugpE
Alcast seems to be doing fine. Much better than me on my Magicka Templar atleast.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j7TQ6BppnRw
As far as I can tell, it is easier on a Stamplar because you can easily get enough dps with WW to push the boss hard enough to only have to deal with one Daedroth toward the end, which you can spectral explosion. Worst case scenario the defense buff will let you handle one Daedroth pretty easily.
V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
AlcastClass Representativetimidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »There are 3 things in the entire post that I'd support.
1. Save feature.
2. Make lightning casters cast their shield faster.
3. Make spectral explosion work for WW if it really doesn't.
You're probably playing magicka templar, you should try and fight the daedroths as stamina, and you'd put that on your list too.
My friend @Alcast who also posted in this thread made a great video about this issue, everyone should check it out (don't think anyone can argue that he is not an experienced player and he already completed the arena on all classes as stamina):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrxgprPugpE
Alcast seems to be doing fine. Much better than me on my Magicka Templar atleast.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j7TQ6BppnRw
As far as I can tell, it is easier on a Stamplar because you can easily get enough dps with WW to push the boss hard enough to only have to deal with one Daedroth toward the end, which you can spectral explosion. Worst case scenario the defense buff will let you handle one Daedroth pretty easily.
You can circle them and not get a lot of damage at all.
The Issues I have with arena:
Stage 3:
Stranglers rek you because of pullbug and RIP you dead if mobs shoot ranged attacks WHILE you get pulled + reloaction bug.
Stage 6. Hitbox issues and WW bugged..
Stage 7: NPC puts bubble up too late = RIP. Flower Explode while in blue buble = RIP.
Stage 8: Prebossstage the boss almost every attack oneshots you.
Stage 9: While shieldspammers have a easy time upstairs with crystals (well they have easy time anywhere actually) we have to deal with a nasty DoT that actually can kill us if we are too SLOW killing crystals. (Sure no magicka users even noticed that yet LOL)
I will probably create a angry video about arena and how ZOS favours shieldspammers and magicka users a lot over stamina and call them words and stuff bc I AM very ANGRY. Almost ragequit after every run I do in vMAEdited by Alcast on November 10, 2015 4:46PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭You have pointed out that the arena is very melee unfriendly which is an undeniable fact.
However, and forgive my lack of knowledge regarding stamina here, wouldn't it be a solution to bring a bow as your secondary weapon for this? Most of your problems would be fixed by simply having some means of ranged damage with you.
Other than that, the only thing I can say that really needs to be adjusted are the crematorial guards. Those are just plain stupid.
I don't think a save feature should be implemented either. Veteran dragonstar arena doesn't have one. Why should this have one? The lack of a save feature is the way the difficulty gets artificially boosted, and I don't think this is a bad thing. Like I said, think vet DSA, think trials with limited souls, etc. I also know vet MSA also has souls, but I don't think you'll ever burn through all 500 souls even after spending roughly 10 hours in there. If a save feature is to be introduced, the amount of souls should be reduced to keep an artificial feeling of difficulty IMO. I'd say from 500 souls to 100 souls, maybe even lower.1 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭You have pointed out that the arena is very melee unfriendly which is an undeniable fact.
However, and forgive my lack of knowledge regarding stamina here, wouldn't it be a solution to bring a bow as your secondary weapon for this? Most of your problems would be fixed by simply having some means of ranged damage with you.
Dunno, sounds a bit like trying to complete Arena hardcasting Crystal Fragments or Dark Flare. Bow has no instant dps ability with moderate dmg. Also not the best dps. I dont play stamina much, but Focused Aim in there with the casting time and the movement being slowed while trying to get it of, sounds annoying. At least with Wrecking Blow or Jabs, stamina players cant get interrupted.
2 -
leipatemeibbaa✭✭✭@Dymence not everyone have continuous 10 hours to spend in the arena as you did the first two week on PTS.
I understand you were able to get through all 9 stages with about one hour, but to be honest how many hours of practices before you get there.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »There are 3 things in the entire post that I'd support.
1. Save feature.
2. Make lightning casters cast their shield faster.
3. Make spectral explosion work for WW if it really doesn't.
You're probably playing magicka templar, you should try and fight the daedroths as stamina, and you'd put that on your list too.
My friend @Alcast who also posted in this thread made a great video about this issue, everyone should check it out (don't think anyone can argue that he is not an experienced player and he already completed the arena on all classes as stamina):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrxgprPugpE
Alcast seems to be doing fine. Much better than me on my Magicka Templar atleast.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j7TQ6BppnRw
As far as I can tell, it is easier on a Stamplar because you can easily get enough dps with WW to push the boss hard enough to only have to deal with one Daedroth toward the end, which you can spectral explosion. Worst case scenario the defense buff will let you handle one Daedroth pretty easily.
You can circle them and not get a lot of damage at all.
The Issues I have with arena:
Stage 3:
Stranglers rek you because of pullbug and RIP you dead if mobs shoot ranged attacks WHILE you get pulled + reloaction bug.
Stage 6. Hitbox issues and WW bugged..
Stage 7: NPC puts bubble up too late = RIP. Flower Explode while in blue buble = RIP.
Stage 8: Prebossstage the boss almost every attack oneshots you.
Stage 9: While shieldspammers have a easy time upstairs with crystals (well they have easy time anywhere actually) we have to deal with a nasty DoT that actually can kill us if we are too SLOW killing crystals. (Sure no magicka users even noticed that yet LOL)
I will probably create a angry video about arena and how ZOS favours shieldspammers and magicka users a lot over stamina and call them words and stuff bc I AM very ANGRY. Almost ragequit after every run I do in vMA
I do not agree with many of the OPs points, but yours are pretty reasonable. I am all for bug fixes, but I am wary of direct nerfs to the difficulty. I am more in favor of class/skill balancing as opposed to nerfing the difficulty of the arena itself. Given the amount of useless garbage in the restoring light tree, they should be able to find a skill or morph that they can replace to help Stamplar out with sustained self heals.
Personally, my biggest issue with the arena is all of the BoP stuff. Once you get your desired gear, there is no reason to keep doing it. BoE is one of the things that kept people running Vet Dsa for so long.
V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
AlcastClass RepresentativeYou have pointed out that the arena is very melee unfriendly which is an undeniable fact.
However, and forgive my lack of knowledge regarding stamina here, wouldn't it be a solution to bring a bow as your secondary weapon for this? Most of your problems would be fixed by simply having some means of ranged damage with you.
Other than that, the only thing I can say that really needs to be adjusted are the crematorial guards. Those are just plain stupid.
I don't think a save feature should be implemented either. Veteran dragonstar arena doesn't have one. Why should this have one? The lack of a save feature is the way the difficulty gets artificially boosted, and I don't think this is a bad thing. Like I said, think vet DSA, think trials with limited souls, etc. I also know vet MSA also has souls, but I don't think you'll ever burn through all 500 souls even after spending roughly 10 hours in there. If a save feature is to be introduced, the amount of souls should be reduced to keep an artificial feeling of difficulty IMO. I'd say from 500 souls to 100 souls, maybe even lower.
Bow is 100% useless since the nerf in 1.6. does NO damage at all. + slows you downhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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AlcastClass Representativetimidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »There are 3 things in the entire post that I'd support.
1. Save feature.
2. Make lightning casters cast their shield faster.
3. Make spectral explosion work for WW if it really doesn't.
You're probably playing magicka templar, you should try and fight the daedroths as stamina, and you'd put that on your list too.
My friend @Alcast who also posted in this thread made a great video about this issue, everyone should check it out (don't think anyone can argue that he is not an experienced player and he already completed the arena on all classes as stamina):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrxgprPugpE
Alcast seems to be doing fine. Much better than me on my Magicka Templar atleast.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j7TQ6BppnRw
As far as I can tell, it is easier on a Stamplar because you can easily get enough dps with WW to push the boss hard enough to only have to deal with one Daedroth toward the end, which you can spectral explosion. Worst case scenario the defense buff will let you handle one Daedroth pretty easily.
You can circle them and not get a lot of damage at all.
The Issues I have with arena:
Stage 3:
Stranglers rek you because of pullbug and RIP you dead if mobs shoot ranged attacks WHILE you get pulled + reloaction bug.
Stage 6. Hitbox issues and WW bugged..
Stage 7: NPC puts bubble up too late = RIP. Flower Explode while in blue buble = RIP.
Stage 8: Prebossstage the boss almost every attack oneshots you.
Stage 9: While shieldspammers have a easy time upstairs with crystals (well they have easy time anywhere actually) we have to deal with a nasty DoT that actually can kill us if we are too SLOW killing crystals. (Sure no magicka users even noticed that yet LOL)
I will probably create a angry video about arena and how ZOS favours shieldspammers and magicka users a lot over stamina and call them words and stuff bc I AM very ANGRY. Almost ragequit after every run I do in vMA
I do not agree with many of the OPs points, but yours are pretty reasonable. I am all for bug fixes, but I am wary of direct nerfs to the difficulty. I am more in favor of class/skill balancing as opposed to nerfing the difficulty of the arena itself. Given the amount of useless garbage in the restoring light tree, they should be able to find a skill or morph that they can replace to help Stamplar out with sustained self heals.
Personally, my biggest issue with the arena is all of the BoP stuff. Once you get your desired gear, there is no reason to keep doing it. BoE is one of the things that kept people running Vet Dsa for so long.
Balancing stuff would be good yes, but do you think ZOS is capable of doing that...? I can say for good they will nerf the arena instead of fixing classes https://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You have pointed out that the arena is very melee unfriendly which is an undeniable fact.
However, and forgive my lack of knowledge regarding stamina here, wouldn't it be a solution to bring a bow as your secondary weapon for this? Most of your problems would be fixed by simply having some means of ranged damage with you.
Other than that, the only thing I can say that really needs to be adjusted are the crematorial guards. Those are just plain stupid.
I don't think a save feature should be implemented either. Veteran dragonstar arena doesn't have one. Why should this have one? The lack of a save feature is the way the difficulty gets artificially boosted, and I don't think this is a bad thing. Like I said, think vet DSA, think trials with limited souls, etc. I also know vet MSA also has souls, but I don't think you'll ever burn through all 500 souls even after spending roughly 10 hours in there. If a save feature is to be introduced, the amount of souls should be reduced to keep an artificial feeling of difficulty IMO. I'd say from 500 souls to 100 souls, maybe even lower.
Bow is 100% useless since the nerf in 1.6. does NO damage at all. + slows you down
how dare you insult my bow0