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The problem isn't macros, it's animation cancelling, and we might be stuck with it.
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kuscoe✭✭✭I love the combat system in ESO as it is at this very moment. In fact, this is what hooked me to the game in the first place and what has kept me here. The fact that despite being an RPG, it plays very much like an action oriented game with fast-paced combat, demand for quick reflexes, and the option to improve your performance by improving your skill with the given interface. I don't want to play runescape. I don't want to play World of Warcraft. I don't want to play final fantasy. I want to play ESO. If a fundamental change is made that might jeopardize this most cherished aspect of the game to me, I can't guarantee I'll stick around.
Removing animation canceling in my view will definitely make the game more clunky and unresponsive. This is because it will disable our ability to weave and chain abilities as we currently can, and that is a staple of how combat works in this game. Period. Feel free to disagree, idc. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, sure. But here is my opinion: Don't fix what ain't broken. Cus then you run the risk of actually breaking what was and is the shining success of this game, its brilliant combat system.
And just a side note, if you can't compete in PvP now and can't complete vet dungeons and you think animation canceling is the reason, I guarantee you will still suck should this be removed.
In short: Git gud and L2P. Stop trying to fundamentally change the game to cater to your incompetence. A fundamental change like this is like opening pandora's box, and will have much broader and resounding ramifications than you can readily anticipate.
Clunky how? Point .3 second to input a skill after a light attack then press block in a instance or have the animations play out? Or do you use macros for it instead?
It's broken, being unable to respond to stream of instant attacks in less then a second isn't skill, it's borderline speed hacking.
I have used animation canceling and I don't like it. A person in real life can't swing a baseball bat then run immediately to first base right as the ball is hit without following through with the swing.
Removing it won't cause a pandera's box of problems, you can still move and do other things. Especially considering THE WHOLE POINT OF ANIMATION CANCELING REQUIRE INSTANT ABILITIES!
My solution is logically simple, using such abilities in animation cancelling increases the cost by 50%, light attacks do less damage when animated cancelled.
After all if you not putting all your effort into attack you are wasting energy and not completing a swing only weakens the landing.
Especially when I try to chop a person with sword but stop halfway to use a thrust instead.
From a technical standpoint it is next to impossible to reduce damage based on a animation cancel
just l2pEdited by kuscoe on November 9, 2015 6:41PM1 -
Skiserony✭✭✭It's not an exploit either, it's a fair mechanic.
It is the very definition of an exploit:
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."
Even though it was not planned for this to happen, it is not an exploit because it is the intention of ZoS to keep this. So no exploit whatsoever. As long ZoS says it doesn't, it isn't one. Sometimes unintended things turn to be quite alright and they are intended. Once ZoS says it's an exploit, I totally agree with you.Imo Animation cancelling is a good feature. If we get rid of that the combat gameplay will be much less responsive. And once combat gameplay fails in ESO we're pretty much done.
Do you even know how animation canceling works!?
You have to press the sequence buttons in less then a 0.2 seconds, otherwise it won't register and the animation plays out.
Your outright lying and using a illogical fallacy. Combat wouldn't become clunky, it would be the same. The only difference is you wouldn't have a massive amount of damage done to you without being able to respond to each attack in the reaction you would if it wasn't done through animation canceling.
Are you serious? Good way to have a discussion. Thanks. The gameplay is really responsive right now, and your definition is actually just speculation since you have never played it without animation cancelling. But I get the point you're making and I'm not going to say you're wrong about it because I haven't played it that way either. But I think it's quite hard to state that the game will be more responsive if we drop animation cancelling.
Yes I surely do know how it works, I use it myself a lot. Tbh it makes gameplay harder and more effective, it's not like it's screwing certain people also, it's available for everyone. It's a bit harder but after a while you do it without thinking about it. I do get the frustration, but it's not wrong to use this. It's not an exploit. It's more a mechanic you can use if you want.
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rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭From a technical standpoint it is next to impossible to reduce damage based on a animation cancel
just l2p
LOL? Force the animation through. The only time that it can be broken is during a dodge roll.
A heavy attack should be a choice made that you follow through with on the animation.
Same goes for light attacks.
Skills should also be a choice and players should have to go through the animation. The only time that it could be cut is during a dodge roll, but while dodging add a hidden timer base off animation time. So after the dodge you have to wait until doing next skill.
That is just small examples. It could easily be balance, and the fact that many of us want it to be fix, for a tougher more rewarding combat. I think the people who depend on it need to l2p.0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@rager82b14_ESO That doesn't even make sense. Next time before hitting submit, make sure your post is logically coherent.
What you're telling me to do is relearn how to play on a completely different system. And what I'm saying is, I like combat in the game as it is and I don't wanna see it changed. I'm not just talking about 'invisible hits', (which fyi there's no such thing because an animation still happens, just a shorter one). I'm talking about things like weaving medium attacks with crushing shock on a Destro staff. Animation canceling is what facilitates that. W/o ani canceling, the very fluid manner in which crushing shock and the destro staff can be utilized now would not be possible. If you don't know what I'm talking about, refer to this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=w5HVCt8v03k
This is just one example how removing this mechanic would make the game clunky, unresponsive, and stale.Edited by CyrusArya on November 9, 2015 7:01PM2 -
Digiman✭✭✭✭✭
From a technical standpoint it is next to impossible to reduce damage based on a animation cancel
just l2p
I know how to use animation canceling. It's frustratingly simple that it's criminal especially with macroing.
And it's not impossible to implement really add a debuff that lasts the time it takes to implement animation canceling which would be 0.2 sec 50% light attack decrease when the attack lands on the mob, 50% increase cost in abilities used with the next 0.2 seconds
Or add an exhaustion debuff when the person completes an animation canceling sequence that stacks with each priority used in the chain that reduces the damage and increases there cost for 2 seconds.
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rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭@rager82b14_ESO That doesn't even make sense. Next time before hitting submit, make sure your post is logically coherent.
What you're telling me to do is relearn how to play on a completely different system. And what I'm saying is, I like combat in the game as it is and I don't wanna see it changed. I'm not just talking about 'invisible hits', (which fyi there's no such thing because an animation still happens just, just a shorter one). I'm talking about things like weaving medium attacks with crushing shock on a Destro staff. Animation canceling is what facilitates that. W/o ani canceling, the very fluid manner in which crushing shock and the destro staff can be utilized now would not be possible. If you don't know what I'm talking about, refer to this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=w5HVCt8v03k
This is just one example how removing this mechanic would make the game clunky, unresponsive, and stale.
How does that make sense? That is how the game is suppose to be played?? Even the developers said it was unintended to cancel animations. We was suppose to follow through with each skill that we did full animation before we could do another. Yet, the developers are either unskilled or just plain lazy to fix the combat that they themselves wanted.
The fluid matter that you are talking about is nothing but a exploit of the system. Each skill and attack you do is a choice that you make and should have to follow all the way through with it. That choice is what makes a rewarding engaging combat.
What you guys want is some weird twitch base fps combat, that you can swing a blade or use spells at lighting speed. That is the dumbest thing ever and not engaging at all.
Animation cancel removes a lot of the consequences of the choice you make. We want it back.Edited by rager82b14_ESO on November 9, 2015 7:08PM2 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Or maybe the developers saw that what emerged, even if unintended, was far superior to the original design. Clearly we have differing opinions on this so let's agree to disagree. I've made my points.
Maybe if you learned to play, you'd see just how engaging and rewarding the fluid combat system currently in place is.3 -
asneakybanana✭✭✭✭✭There's no exploit about it. It's how zos designed their Gcd system so that every type of attack has its own Gcd timer. So basic attacks such as light attack and heavy attack have their own timer, skills have their own timer, bash has its own timer, and weapon swap has its own timer. SoSo in essence you can chain all 4 of those things together if you wanted to and do 4 animations in 1 second however you can never cast 2 skills or 2 basic attacks within their same Gcd period.
Also weaving and animation cancelling makes combat interesting and fluid especially in a game with no cool downs. If there was no weaving we would simply just sit there and spam crushing shock over and over again and literally would take no skill to do both pve and pvp successfully. With animation cancelling you will see a top player running all 4 of those animations in 1 second and that will be far more successful than someone trying to spam just skills on them. Please stop crying about the most enjoyable part of combat in this game and l2p.Asneakybanana AD DK Former emperor of Chrysamere and Chillrend. World first hardmode Hel'ra and Quake con winner (Alliance rank 25)Sweat Squad
Asneakyhabenero EP DK Former emperor of Thornblade, Haderus. World first vMA Dk clear (Alliance rank 39)
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Asneakypineapple EP Temp Former empress of Azuras Star and Haderus (Alliance rank 22)
Asneakypickle EP NB Former empress of Trueflame (Alliance rank 47)
Crowned 27x on 12 different campaign cycles | 200M+ AP earned
Fastest AA clear ever: 5:42 | Fastest HRC clear ever: 5:27 | NA first HM MoL
609k Mag Sorc vMA
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2x Tick Tock Tormentor5 -
rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Or maybe the developers saw that what emerged, even if unintended, was far superior to the original design. Clearly we have differing opinions on this so let's agree to disagree. I've made my points.
Maybe if you learned to play, you'd see just how engaging and rewarding the fluid combat system currently in place is.
Oh you want to play that card? Ok...
For every Beta tester like myself, who help give them ideas, who wanted to help shape the game better in many ways, to get told by Developers that they would not do so and so because of Immersion reasons. That they would leave this in of all things, that not only breaks immersion but also takes the skill out of the combat. Is laughable.
I think you are scared, that the combat could get tougher for you, and you want to keep riding this easy mode. Lets not pretend animation cancel is a hard thing to do. It is stupid, it is bad game design, and the developers are getting called out for it. It also forces players to use this loophole just to compete.
If they wanted things to stay like this. Why even have animations in the first place? What a waste of time and resources *rolls eyes*Edited by rager82b14_ESO on November 9, 2015 7:14PM0 -
Digiman✭✭✭✭✭refer to this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=w5HVCt8v03k
This is just one example how removing this mechanic would make the game clunky, unresponsive, and stale.
Yes it would be a hindrance considering his ENTIRE BUILD IS BUILT AROUND ANIMATION CANCELING!Imo Animation cancelling is a good feature. If we get rid of that the combat gameplay will be much less responsive. And once combat gameplay fails in ESO we're pretty much done.
Do you even know how animation canceling works!?
You have to press the sequence buttons in less then a 0.2 seconds, otherwise it won't register and the animation plays out.
Your outright lying and using a illogical fallacy. Combat wouldn't become clunky, it would be the same. The only difference is you wouldn't have a massive amount of damage done to you without being able to respond to each attack in the reaction you would if it wasn't done through animation canceling.
Are you serious? Good way to have a discussion. Thanks. The gameplay is really responsive right now, and your definition is actually just speculation since you have never played it without animation cancelling. But I get the point you're making and I'm not going to say you're wrong about it because I haven't played it that way either. But I think it's quite hard to state that the game will be more responsive if we drop animation cancelling.
Yes I surely do know how it works, I use it myself a lot. Tbh it makes gameplay harder and more effective, it's not like it's screwing certain people also, it's available for everyone. It's a bit harder but after a while you do it without thinking about it. I do get the frustration, but it's not wrong to use this. It's not an exploit. It's more a mechanic you can use if you want.
I have played it with animation canceling. The whole damn system is around it is about using instant attacks in a priority sequence to skip the animations then done again with a new attack sequence after.
It makes it so it's impossible for other player to respond to the attack sequence before the damage of all attacks are applied.
I can sequence a light or medium attack, follow it up with a damage ability, switch to a weapon bar then put a defensive ability up or another damage ability then block before you finish your first attack. Then reapply my sequence.
It abuses the time between those attacks in a similar method to speed hacking because it doesn't give the player the time necessary to defend or use a different strategy to respond before the majority of there health disappeared in what seemed like a lag spike.
It's an exploit, and ZoS says otherwise because they have no idea how to control it. This was exactly the same problem with block casting.1 -
rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭rager82b14_ESO wrote: »
I have played it with animation canceling. The whole damn system is around it is about using instant attacks in a priority sequence to skip the animations then done again with a new attack sequence after.
It makes it so it's impossible for other player to respond to the attack sequence before the damage of all attacks are applied.
I can sequence a light or medium attack, follow it up with a damage ability, switch to a weapon bar then put a defensive ability up or another damage ability then block before you finish your first attack. Then reapply my sequence.
It abuses the time between those attacks in a similar method to speed hacking because it doesn't give the player the time necessary to defend or use a different strategy to respond before the majority of there health disappeared in what seemed like a lag spike.
It's an exploit, and ZoS says otherwise because they have no idea how to control it. This was exactly the same problem with block casting.
Bingo, It dumbs down the game and the combat. The fact it has gone on this long is embarrassing.0 -
Skiserony✭✭✭
I have played it with animation canceling. The whole damn system is around it is about using instant attacks in a priority sequence to skip the animations then done again with a new attack sequence after.
It makes it so it's impossible for other player to respond to the attack sequence before the damage of all attacks are applied.
I can sequence a light or medium attack, follow it up with a damage ability, switch to a weapon bar then put a defensive ability up or another damage ability then block before you finish your first attack. Then reapply my sequence.
It abuses the time between those attacks in a similar method to speed hacking because it doesn't give the player the time necessary to defend or use a different strategy to respond before the majority of there health disappeared in what seemed like a lag spike.
It's an exploit, and ZoS says otherwise because they have no idea how to control it. This was exactly the same problem with block casting.
And what happens then? Spamming one skill constantly? Is that what's better?
It's not an exploit if ZoS itself says it's an exploit. EVEN if was unintended. That obvious right?Or maybe the developers saw that what emerged, even if unintended, was far superior to the original design. Clearly we have differing opinions on this so let's agree to disagree. I've made my points.
I'm gonna go with what Cyrus said. This thread is going to go on endless and I'm afraid it won't be much of a difference. People are going to start raging in here so I'm gonna leave it with this.
One last thing though, I do get your points and I see the frustration. I'm not disagreeing with your reasoning either because it makes sense, most of them do. This thread is just a bunch of personal opinions and mine is that I think animation cancelling is good and should not be removed. Just wanted to be clear, have no intentions on raging on someone.
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eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭I love the combat system in ESO as it is at this very moment. In fact, this is what hooked me to the game in the first place and what has kept me here. The fact that despite being an RPG, it plays very much like an action oriented game with fast-paced combat, demand for quick reflexes, and the option to improve your performance by improving your skill with the given interface. I don't want to play runescape. I don't want to play World of Warcraft. I don't want to play final fantasy. I want to play ESO. If a fundamental change is made that might jeopardize this most cherished aspect of the game to me, I can't guarantee I'll stick around.
Removing animation canceling in my view will definitely make the game more clunky and unresponsive. This is because it will disable our ability to weave and chain abilities as we currently can, and that is a staple of how combat works in this game. Period. Feel free to disagree, idc. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, sure. But here is my opinion: Don't fix what ain't broken. Cus then you run the risk of actually breaking what was and is the shining success of this game, its brilliant combat system.
And just a side note, if you can't compete in PvP now and can't complete vet dungeons and you think animation canceling is the reason, I guarantee you will still suck should this be removed.
In short: Git gud and L2P. Stop trying to fundamentally change the game to cater to your incompetence. A fundamental change like this is like opening pandora's box, and will have much broader and resounding ramifications than you can readily anticipate.
Clunky how? Point .3 second to input a skill after a light attack then press block in a instance or have the animations play out? Or do you use macros for it instead?
It's broken, being unable to respond to stream of instant attacks in less then a second isn't skill, it's borderline speed hacking.
I have used animation canceling and I don't like it. A person in real life can't swing a baseball bat then run immediately to first base right as the ball is hit without following through with the swing.
Removing it won't cause a pandera's box of problems, you can still move and do other things. Especially considering THE WHOLE POINT OF ANIMATION CANCELING REQUIRE INSTANT ABILITIES!
My solution is logically simple, using such abilities in animation cancelling increases the cost by 50%, light attacks do less damage when animated cancelled.
After all if you not putting all your effort into attack you are wasting energy and not completing a swing only weakens the landing.
Especially when I try to chop a person with sword but stop halfway to use a thrust instead.
From a technical standpoint it is next to impossible to reduce damage based on a animation cancel
just l2p
Please teach my templar how to animation cancel Puncturing Sweep or Radiant Oppression...
Please teach Dual Wielders how to animation cancel Flurry...
It's not a l2p issue when cancelling a skill stops the channelling entirely lol.
While I agree that it's to complicated to change dmg or cost, based on whether the skills was cancelled, ZOS still needs to look into this (1.5 year to late)
Skills aren't balanced based on how smooth they cancel or weave, while some cant be cancelled at all. This always created imbalance and fotm go-to builds in both PvE and PvP. ZoS only seem to look at how much dmg a skill potentially does, when tweaking, not how much you can speed it up by shortening the animation. It was always a problem.0 -
Arreyanne✭✭✭✭The only problem I have with animation cancelling is if it becomes the mainstay for content such as what DCUO has done.
All there content now is balanced off the cancelling animation's during combat. I would go find the post on their forums but I dont want to.
The dev's there have stated it, that all the content was being designed for combat with animation cancelling and if a player couldn't animation cancel as well or not at all then they most likely wouldn't be able to complete the encounter( RAIDS)
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Wily_Wizard✭✭✭ontheleftcoast wrote: »Why does this matter? Because rollover is indistinguishable from macros. Open up any text editor you want, even something as primitive as 'notepad.exe'. Next put your fingers over the keys on the home row (ASDF and HJKL for you QWERTY users). Now press and release all 8 keys at once. I'll do it three times -- dfklha khjlfa hjkladf -- that's rollover in action. Notice not all the keys are pressed, the 's' and 'j' keys didn't come thru the first time, the 'd' and 's' the next, and only the 's' was dropped on the last press. This is not the same as pressing all 8 keys in order without releasing them, that results in the following -- asdffffffff -- after some amount time the auto-repeat kicks in and the remaining keys are ignored.
I've been curious about this too, and I ran across an ARTICLE that make me want to pull one of my old PS2 keyboards out of the storage bin and see if it really recognizes every single key input(versus USB keyboard).
PS: scroll down to the section - "PS/2 vs USB Technical Limitations"
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Edited by Wily_Wizard on November 9, 2015 7:53PM0 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭It's really a programming/animation issue. If you have ever played any serious shoooters the reload animation can be canceled at any time but the reload effect only takes place once the reload animation shows the magazine being inserted into the weapon. You can program when the effect occurs during the animation. The problem is that ESO allows you to cancel the animation entirely and still benefit from the effect. It would be akin to reload canceling without even needing to play the animation. Could you imagine the imbalance with a LMG that normally requires several second to reload?
While not every skill can be animation canceled, the ones that allow it provide a significant damage bonus and allow players to react more quickly without the risk of being interrupted. Having to time your animation cancels usually requires skill, but ESO lets you do it whenever you want so long as the input is registered. It's just bad programming.0 -
rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hiero_Glyph wrote: »It's really a programming/animation issue. If you have ever played any serious shoooters the reload animation can be canceled at any time but the reload effect only takes place once the reload animation shows the magazine being inserted into the weapon. You can program when the effect occurs during the animation. The problem is that ESO allows you to cancel the animation entirely and still benefit from the effect. It would be akin to reload canceling without even needing to play the animation. Could you imagine the imbalance with a LMG that normally requires several second to reload?
While not every skill can be animation canceled, the ones that allow it provide a significant damage bonus and allow players to react more quickly without the risk of being interrupted. Having to time your animation cancels usually requires skill, but ESO lets you do it whenever you want so long as the input is registered. It's just bad programming.
Yup, and they are playing it off like it is a feature is laughable.0 -
purple-magicb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭lol! thank the dev-gods for animation cancelling or we might have a combat system that's sluggish and unresponsive. I don't think I could handle that ;-)I don't comment here often but when I do, I get [snip]0 -
rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »lol! thank the dev-gods for animation cancelling or we might have a combat system that's sluggish and unresponsive. I don't think I could handle that ;-)
I don't think you understand what you are talking about.0 -
MrGrimey✭✭✭✭✭The problem isnt macros or anim canceling. It's the damn lag! It's the fact that rolling with a zerg is the only viable option in PvP, AOE caps, Zerg AP gain and the massive lag that these zerg groups cause. Animation cancelling isn't even that strong in this game, there is still a small global cooldown for every abilityThe only problem I have with animation cancelling is if it becomes the mainstay for content such as what DCUO has done.
All there content now is balanced off the cancelling animation's during combat. I would go find the post on their forums but I dont want to.
The dev's there have stated it, that all the content was being designed for combat with animation cancelling and if a player couldn't animation cancel as well or not at all then they most likely wouldn't be able to complete the encounter( RAIDS)
First off, you are very wrong, unless you haven't played DCUO within the last year and few months. They completly nerfed animation canceling/jump cancelling . They added weapon mastery and Advanced power mechanics. they had a great combat system and messed it up because people didn't want to animation cancel. Weapon mastery and advanced mechanics made every class play the same and destroyed PvP. I'd rather ESO not follow the footsteps of DCUO.1 -
rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
First off, you are very wrong, unless you haven't played DCUO within the last year and few months. They completly nerfed animation canceling/jump cancelling . They added weapon mastery and Advanced power mechanics. they had a great combat system and messed it up because people didn't want to animation cancel. Weapon mastery and advanced mechanics made every class play the same and destroyed PvP. I'd rather ESO not follow the footsteps of DCUO.
Oh they fixed it? Hmmm, time to check out DCUO. Sounds like they did the smart thing. We can only hope ZOS can do the same.0 -
MrGrimey✭✭✭✭✭rager82b14_ESO wrote: »
First off, you are very wrong, unless you haven't played DCUO within the last year and few months. They completly nerfed animation canceling/jump cancelling . They added weapon mastery and Advanced power mechanics. they had a great combat system and messed it up because people didn't want to animation cancel. Weapon mastery and advanced mechanics made every class play the same and destroyed PvP. I'd rather ESO not follow the footsteps of DCUO.
Oh they fixed it? Hmmm, time to check out DCUO. Sounds like they did the smart thing. We can only hope ZOS can do the same.
Like I said, game balance and pvp is ruined as a result... Enjoy
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Artjuh90✭✭✭✭✭
✭Animation cancelling doesn't equate to responsive combat. That's a lame excuse to keep such an exploit in the game. Responsive combat means your character reacts as you execute your skills. When I use animation cancelling I feel disconnected from my character. He's doing one thing on screen while I'm having him do something else... something I don't even see. If I use attack #1 and then instantly use attack #2, the responsive reaction would be attack #1 gets interrupted and attack #2 starts.
It's something you practice, and it does feel more reesponsive actually. Being able to weapon swap immediately, or block the moment you give the command to, fire a light or heavy attack right when you want to and not a little bit after the animation. It is more responsive, even for those who have,'t mastered animation cancelling yet. It's not that hard, just keep trying to do it.
It's not an exploit either, it's a fair mechanic.
well if you don't have animation cancelling it get's as responsive actually but you have to choose between damaging and blocking for example and not having best of both world so this can be said the other way around0 -
rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭rager82b14_ESO wrote: »
First off, you are very wrong, unless you haven't played DCUO within the last year and few months. They completly nerfed animation canceling/jump cancelling . They added weapon mastery and Advanced power mechanics. they had a great combat system and messed it up because people didn't want to animation cancel. Weapon mastery and advanced mechanics made every class play the same and destroyed PvP. I'd rather ESO not follow the footsteps of DCUO.
Oh they fixed it? Hmmm, time to check out DCUO. Sounds like they did the smart thing. We can only hope ZOS can do the same.
Like I said, game balance and pvp is ruined as a result... Enjoy
That can always be fixed and tweaked. The fact that they fixed the problem is pretty nice.0 -
purple-magicb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭rager82b14_ESO wrote: »purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »lol! thank the dev-gods for animation cancelling or we might have a combat system that's sluggish and unresponsive. I don't think I could handle that ;-)
I don't think you understand what you are talking about.
So you seriously think this combat system is responsive? lol! What was your last MMO? Pong?
Try weapon swapping during combat and let me know how that goes!
If they did do away with animation cancelling - pvp would be ok but they would have to adjust npc enemy rapid fire.
BTW I love this thread! Let the debhate rage on! :-DI don't comment here often but when I do, I get [snip]0 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭rager82b14_ESO wrote: »Hiero_Glyph wrote: »It's really a programming/animation issue. If you have ever played any serious shoooters the reload animation can be canceled at any time but the reload effect only takes place once the reload animation shows the magazine being inserted into the weapon. You can program when the effect occurs during the animation. The problem is that ESO allows you to cancel the animation entirely and still benefit from the effect. It would be akin to reload canceling without even needing to play the animation. Could you imagine the imbalance with a LMG that normally requires several second to reload?
While not every skill can be animation canceled, the ones that allow it provide a significant damage bonus and allow players to react more quickly without the risk of being interrupted. Having to time your animation cancels usually requires skill, but ESO lets you do it whenever you want so long as the input is registered. It's just bad programming.
Yup, and they are playing it off like it is a feature is laughable.
It could be a feature if ZOS set fixed points within the animation where the effect would occur. Take any animation that requires bringing your character's hands together. The effect should always have to play up until the point in the animation where the hands touch in order for the effect to occcur. At any point after that you should be able to cancel the remainder of the animation. If you cancel the animation before that point the effect is canceled entirely.
This is where skillful play comes in as you want to cancel the end of the animation but not lose the effect, which requires precise timing. Now in high latency situations this is difficult to manage but as long as a skill cannot cancel another skill there would never be an issue with chaining inputs before the animations were complete. You would need to input a block, bash, or weapon swap to cancel the remainder of a skill's animation. This is the way ESO should work as it promotes skillful play but does not provide an unfair for doing so. I mean could you imagine if a Templar could animation cancel Jabs? Yet a NB can animation cancel several attacks following an Ambush.Edited by Hiero_Glyph on November 9, 2015 8:49PM0 -
thelordoffelines✭✭✭✭✭rager82b14_ESO wrote: »@rager82b14_ESO That doesn't even make sense. Next time before hitting submit, make sure your post is logically coherent.
What you're telling me to do is relearn how to play on a completely different system. And what I'm saying is, I like combat in the game as it is and I don't wanna see it changed. I'm not just talking about 'invisible hits', (which fyi there's no such thing because an animation still happens just, just a shorter one). I'm talking about things like weaving medium attacks with crushing shock on a Destro staff. Animation canceling is what facilitates that. W/o ani canceling, the very fluid manner in which crushing shock and the destro staff can be utilized now would not be possible. If you don't know what I'm talking about, refer to this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=w5HVCt8v03k
This is just one example how removing this mechanic would make the game clunky, unresponsive, and stale.
How does that make sense? That is how the game is suppose to be played?? Even the developers said it was unintended to cancel animations. We was suppose to follow through with each skill that we did full animation before we could do another. Yet, the developers are either unskilled or just plain lazy to fix the combat that they themselves wanted.
The fluid matter that you are talking about is nothing but a exploit of the system. Each skill and attack you do is a choice that you make and should have to follow all the way through with it. That choice is what makes a rewarding engaging combat.
What you guys want is some weird twitch base fps combat, that you can swing a blade or use spells at lighting speed. That is the dumbest thing ever and not engaging at all.
Animation cancel removes a lot of the consequences of the choice you make. We want it back.
Oor maybe the devs care more about having a fluid and reactive combat system than they do about stopping animation canceling to appease the few who have a problem with animation canceling.
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rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »rager82b14_ESO wrote: »purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »lol! thank the dev-gods for animation cancelling or we might have a combat system that's sluggish and unresponsive. I don't think I could handle that ;-)
I don't think you understand what you are talking about.
So you seriously think this combat system is responsive? lol! What was your last MMO? Pong?
Try weapon swapping during combat and let me know how that goes!
If they did do away with animation cancelling - pvp would be ok but they would have to adjust npc enemy rapid fire.
BTW I love this thread! Let the debhate rage on! :-D
No the words you are using don't mean what you think they do. I hit a button an action happens. What many of us are asking for is a combat that is base off more choice.
It is a balance problem as well, as some skills have this loophole others don't making the combat feel clunky and broken.0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So much misinformation in this thread from the bads. Animation cancelling is great for the game and increases the inputs needed to maximize your output. The game is already incredibly low on inputs per seconds needed and any further reduction would make it mind numbing.
You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points1 -
rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭So much misinformation in this thread from the bads. Animation cancelling is great for the game and increases the inputs needed to maximize your output. The game is already incredibly low on inputs per seconds needed and any further reduction would make it mind numbing.
I think you got your words wrong. Having more consequences base off what attack you use takes more skill than animation canceling. The ones who want a easier combat is the ones who want to keep it. So you calling the wrong group "bads" buddy.0