Is there any great S&B and Bow build out there?

ChefZero · October 2015

I'm thinking about a Stamina build without snipe, steel tornado and wrecking blow for small scale. I like shield bash, reflect and bombard on bow. I don't like the fotm stamina builds atm and wanna make my own hardcore-mega-badass-like-link-from-zelda-build!!

Ideas?

NinjaMyk · November 2015

I would go nightblade for a number of reasons. They have a class stamina based execute and neither s/b or bow has a real execute. They also have a lot of crit boosting passive a that work well with the bow being your main way of dealing damage. Mark target will help you debuff armor making your bow hit harder. Dark cloak allows you to escape and put distance between you to continue using bow. No momentum (2h) or hidden dagger (dw) leaves you with sap essence and potions to get the 20% damage buff and considering you probably want to open fights from range with the bow I would look into the potions. Also grim focus works well with a bow in my opinion especially a weighted one as getting off the 4 light attacks to activate assassins will is easy and it can take the place of snipe as your high single target dps.

Jitterbug · November 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

to be honest there is no "great" S&B + bow build.
the best you can get is an ok´ish build as those two weaponlines do not synergize at all.

They might not synergize all that well but they do supplement each other.
Bow needs an armor debuff which SnB can provide, and as the OP doesn't want to use Snipe as healing debuff, SnB can provide that too. On the other hand SnB lacks range which bow obviously provides.

The thing lacking from any non-2H build is the Rally buff to weapon damage and healing.
So I might amend Vigor to my build above as Critical Surge has a tendency to be unreliable for healing.

I chose Sorcerer because Critical Surge provides the buff to weapon damage also lacking from not going 2H.

NinjaMyk · November 2015

ChefZero wrote: »

NinjaMyk wrote: »

I would go nightblade for a number of reasons. They have a class stamina based execute and neither s/b or bow has a real execute. They also have a lot of crit boosting passive a that work well with the bow being your main way of dealing damage. Mark target will help you debuff armor making your bow hit harder. Dark cloak allows you to escape and put distance between you to continue using bow. No momentum (2h) or hidden dagger (dw) leaves you with sap essence and potions to get the 20% damage buff and considering you probably want to open fights from range with the bow I would look into the potions. Also grim focus works well with a bow in my opinion especially a weighted one as getting off the 4 light attacks to activate assassins will is easy and it can take the place of snipe as your high single target dps.

Yes my thoughts were similar and i am a NB. Problem is the absence of 2H heal. And how do i dps with bow in PvP, mid attack silver leash cancel?

Your damage output will suffer due to lack of snipe as I'm sure you are aware but that's not to say you cannot make it work as long as your not expecting to pull same dps as a snipe spammer. I don't actually know for sure myself and would love for you to update me on how this works out but my first thought is to use your heavy attacks and try and stack critical. Maybe pulling back your bow fully from stealth the pressing poison injection button so both land with milliseconds of each other. Have grim focus up before you take shot then hit a couple of medium attacks followed by a magnum shot if they running at you to knock back quick light attack followed by assassins will. At this point switch to s/b and charge in a few surprise attacks followed by killers blade. This is all just speculative and obviously your opponent is not going to stand there and let you do that without fighting back or healing/escaping. I think you would need a weighted bow to get your shots off quicker

As for healing your going to need vigor morphed to resolving vigor their just isn't another option there. Also you would want to max alchemy and have 20% wep damage pots on your quick slot

Based on all this maybe you should try:

Main bar

Bow:
Poison injection
Magnum shot
Piercing mark
Camo hunter (for crit rating plus small proc chance of extra damage)
Relentless focus
Soul harvest as ultimate for an extra assassination ability on bar to increase crit

Back up bar:

Sword and shield:
Ambush/ invasion
Surprise attack
Killers blade
Resolving vigor
Dark cloak
Personal choice on ultimate

Like I said purely speculative and I have never ran this setup it's just best I can think of considering the parameters you set and would need to test it to make improvements. If you do try it let me know your opinions

Edit - p.s. If your not fussed about a gap closer and would prefer them to come to you, you can slot defensive stance instead for perks of slotting it and because bouncing spells back at caster is fun. Never get bored of watching sorcs stumbling around asking for the license plate of the truck that just hit them when you return their frag to sender.

SneaK · November 2015

Link has been doing it well for years.

I would imagine it being something like -

Reverb Bash
Ransack (or any spammable DPS, Surprise Attack, Whip, Jabs)
Variable (execute if class has one, or shield if not)
Vigor
Defensive Stance (or Scales, or a CC like Talons or Hysteria)
Dawnbreaker

Poison Inject
Bombard or Caltrops (AOE Snare)
Shuffle
Retreating Maneuvers
Class Ability (CC, Heal, Shield, something)
Open

No idea how this would go, but seems like it'd be fun.

Reeko · November 2015

ChefZero wrote: »

Reeko wrote: »

If your opponent is close enough to interupt you your doing bow wrong lol.

But yes it is slow but still the hardest hitting bow move you got.

@Reeko I use also S&B and I don't wanna avoid melee fights. So, of course they could interupt snipe. But that's the idea of this build, wanna play a balls-of-steal-build! Maybe without cloak, cause efficient purge is better if you don't need to stealth.

Think about using of Venom Arrow and Bombard. For big group pvp maybe Arrow Barrage, Caltrops and Veil of Blades. Definitely no Shield Charge cause gapcloser is waist if I can do also range dps.

It may work but you are for sure making things harder for you. Nobody is just gonna stand in a volley or veil of blades. If a ranged person kites you, not having a gap closer or a good ranged dps skill will put you ar a disadvantage. If you snipe from point blank you wont get the full damage from the bow passive which would then make almost any melee attack better. Cloak costs less than purge and going invis is the whole point to being a nb in pvp, so many passives and synergies you would be missing out on. At this point it would almost be better to just make a dk or templar with this build.

Sorry to be blunt. In all honosty if it somehow works for you then go for it! You asked for critics opinion and i just don't see this working too well.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · November 2015

ChefZero wrote: »

I'm thinking about a Stamina build without snipe, steel tornado and wrecking blow for small scale. I like shield bash, reflect and bombard on bow. I don't like the fotm stamina builds atm and wanna make my own hardcore-mega-badass-like-link-from-zelda-build!!
Ideas?

My build

Bow Main/Buff bar for Melee range combat.

Poison Injection: have to have this down 24/7, the damage turns good after they drop below 50%. Plus Stamina lacks useful DoTs so this really helps

Relentless Focus: damage buff and 10% Stamina regeneration buff (with the heavy nerf to Refreshing Shadows this is needed).

Dark Cloak: drops four DoTs, Shadow Barrier and if you plan on staying at range Attack, Mark and move behind a tree and rock while they hold down block waiting for the next attack.

Evil Hunter: bonus damage, 10% and stamina return.

FOCUSED AIM: bonus damage to players with you Mark (from Focused Aim) plus buffing all Bow range by 5m.

I know you don't like the meta/FOTM right now but I have played Stamina Nightblades since early Beta now that we have a band wagon I'm not jumping ship to feel unique.

Ultimate - Flawless Dawnbreaker: 8% more damage with Bow you need all the help you can get for damage.

One Hand and Shield

Suprise Attack: great DPS and Shadow Barrier so 5120 Armor and Spell resistance.

Invasion: less damage then Ambush but has a great CC take a few steps back and force a block or CC break both kill stamina so have at it.

Mirage: 20% miss chance for 26 seconds and 950~ Armor and Spell Resistance added to the Shadow Barrier buff you will keep a 6k Armor and Spell Resistance Buff at all times.

Piercing Mark: anti FOTM Nightblade power plus a 5120 Armor and Spell Resistance debuff.
Or
Power Extraction: AoE so can counter Cloak still plus you get the 20% weapons damage buff you lack without Twohanded weapons.

Now why this over Sap Essence? Both deal magic damage Sap heals and also buffs spell damage so better Ultimate damage. Well Extraction hits with nearly 3k more damage. More then making up for the missing heal

Vigor: Heal.

Ultimate - Incapacitating Strike: if you are dying, it's a sweet knock down. Other wise same damage as Soul Harvest.

Gear: 5 Hundings Rage (2 light or 2 heavy depends on if you need a little more regen or little more armor). 3 Ashen Grip damage or Night's Silence for stamina regen. Agility jewelry of course.

Hope it helps

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · November 2015

@ChefZero you're build simply wouldn't work from the sound of it you don't want to use Gap Closers, Cloak or Snipe. All of which is needed for that set up.

I got your or wanting to use Snipe but in PvP it's range is 42m at base and 47m after the first hit 10% more with bow attacks and 920 Armor reduction for 10 seconds not using it you will only have Poison Areow for ranged attacks. Bombard is great but wouldn't really stop players from running around for too long. Volley is weak and they need to stand in it for any real damage. Magnum Shot it good but it's range is lower then Steel Tornado.

Bow lacks strong Range out side of DoTing with Poison Arrow and Snipe or DoT with Poison Arrow buff up and go Melee.

Without the range of Snipe you will not be able to kill any one the turns and run with no gap closer and no long range DPS outside of a DoT you will lose many kills.

Yes Efficient Purge is better then Cloak same cost but purge gets Curse, debuffs and reduce the effectiveness of debuffs and DoTs coming for a time but you lose Stealth stunning with Suprise Attack.

Not using powers that your build will need cause PvP Sheepeople jumped on the Bandwagon is not a smart move and will just kill your build.

Reeko · November 2015

I really want to help you make this work so i respecced my nightblade from magicka to stamina and picked up a swrd and shield. This is the conclusion i cae to:

Sword and board woud best be used as your buff bar. Make sure to run 5 med 2 heavy and make the 2 heavy your chest and legs/helmet with reinforced. Same goes for the sheld.

You will want to spec heavily into stamina with maybe a pinch of health.

On your skill bars i found what worked best for me was:

Sword and Board:
Absorb Magicka (since vigor is basicly your onky heal this helps)
Vigor (your main heal)
Shuffle (help you escape and avoid damage)
Mass Hysteria (use when you need to break from melee and get into ranged)
Heroic Slash (helps with a slew of things)

Ultimate: Soul Tether (nice aoe stun plus heals)

Bow:
Dark Cloak (removes dots and escape)
Piercing Mark (up your dmg)
Magnum Shot (helps keep enemys at bay)
Poison Injection (nice dot dmg as long as they dont purge)
Lethal Arrow/or if you insist on not useing it try Swallow Soul for more heals (Lethal Arrow helps with dmg and provides a nice heal debuff from the whole desease thing)

Ultimate: Flawless Dawnbreaker (more wpn dmg)

I ran with 5 Hundings, 1 Molag Kena and 2-3 Nights Silence for stam recovery when in sword n board. Warrior Mundus stone. Sharpened on Bow but you could also do Precise (im Khajiit so i didnt need it) and Defending on sword for more tankiness.

Strategy/Playstyle:
Stay in stealth with bow. Open with mark then lethal followed by atk weave poison inject. If they start getting close magnum shot otherwise switch to s&b and hit them with heroic slash and try to make distance till you can switch back to bow and continue dps.

This is not my usual way of playing but it was fun as a change of pace! Only thing lacking is heals and a way to buff your dmg. Had to use wpn dmg/wpn crit potions alot.

Hope this helps! Tested the build for several hours a day for about 3 days.

i3ig_Gun · October 2015

build a stam sorc, and go bow and 2Hander, and watch the bleeding happen

revonine · October 2015

i3ig_Gun wrote: »

build a stam sorc, and go bow and 2Hander, and watch the bleeding happen

That. Hit like trucks. Move like jet fighters.

ChefZero · October 2015

i3ig_Gun wrote: »

build a stam sorc, and go bow and 2Hander, and watch the bleeding happen

Do you use Snipe or Wrecking Blow in this build?

i3ig_Gun · October 2015

Both

ChefZero · October 2015

ok so.. no ^^

LadyStormStrider · October 2015

theoretically as a long time elderscrolls player and someone who 98% of the time plays hybrids first thing that comes to mind is focusing snb on shield/defenseive abilities and center your bow around hard hitting offense relying largely on health and good gear. but thats just one theory.

SneaK · October 2015

What class? I'd like to help you theory craft this...

ThatNeonZebraAgain · October 2015

For a long time I ran 1h/Shield and Bow on my stamina NB, so let me try and remember some things about it. Keep in mind this way about a year ago through last January, so the metas, gearing, etc were much different (though I know I based my gear around 5pc Hunding's Rage). Also, the character played a tank in PvE, so that translated over to sacrificing some stamina for more health. The build was very fun for solo PvP because of its balance of tankiness/survivability and damage, and actually might be relevant again now that sustain is more important. The build didn't kill fast (unless I could get a good jump from stealth), but because it was not a common one I often could tell that I caught people off guard because they don't know how to react to my tactics.

@LadyStormStrider was close to my approach. The basic idea I had was to deal your best damage at range with the Bow bar, and then decent damage combined with survivability/utility when engaged in melee. Basically, build so you don't have to run away if someone gets in your face, just swap bars and throw down. You also don't need gap closers because you are comfortable at range. The trick is making sure you can deal enough damage to kill somebody while also having proper buffs (e.g. Major damage), debuffs (mainly armor reduction), and enough heals/defensive abilities (e.g. Mass Hysteria, Absorb Magic, and Cloak) to stay alive.

With this in mind, the 1h/shield bar is about defense and creating space between you and the enemy so you can switch back to bow to dish out damage. One cool thing is that this allows use of Veil of Blades as both defensive and offensive ability: say the enemy closes in on you and you drop veil -- if they stay in they will take a lot of damage, but likely they will roll out of it at which point you just stay in your veil and switch to bow to freely spam attacks while receiving a big chunk of mitigation. You similarly use Mass Hysteria to both drain stamina and put space between you and the enemy; Shadow Image and Dark Cloak are also a great tools for creating space. Balancing Magicka-based and Stamina-based abilities is important as well so you don't run out of Stamina for damage, blocking, and CC breaking.

If I had to translate this to today's abilities, it would be something like this:

1h/shield bar:
-Sap Essence- Small heal, but more importantly grants Major damage buff while proccing good Siphoning line passives
-Dark Cloak- Great for creating breathing room and proccing Shadow Barrier and Master Assassin buffs
-Heroic Slash- Decent damage, quick animation to easily animation cancel. While the Minor Maim buff overlaps with Shadow Image, the Minor Heroism buff cancels this out as it helps to regen ult faster for VoB
-Absorb Magic- More mitigation and a great heal
-Mass Hysteria- Forces enemy stamina drain and creates space for ranged attacks
-Veil of Blades- great defensive and offensive ability for melee and range like I described

Bow bar:
-Mark Target (either morph)- Long duration Major armor debuff and heal on kill. This skill is another reason why I chose Heroic Slash over Surprise Attack as melee damage ability.
-Mirage- Major Evasion+Minor resistance buffs with long duration make this a key defensive ability
-Snipe (either morph)- Damage at range
-Poison Arrow (either morph, but I love the interrupt against Sorcs and Temps)- damage at range
-Shadow Image- Great at creating space, also reduces enemy damage (could swap this for Vigor to avoid having duplicate Maim debuffs and allow for another heal)
-Flawless Dawnbreaker- Passively buffs damage (Soul Assault might be another choice)

In terms of gear, I would go 5 Medium+2 Heavy (Chest, Legs, or Head), with 5pc Hunding's Rage, 1pc Molag Kena, 1pc Blood Spawn. Other sets would round out the stats you need most (probably stam regen and damage). The new Maelstrom 1h sword might be useful for this build too.

Hope this helps!

Huggalump · November 2015

I just started running a build very much like this. I sometimes have snipe on my bar, but it's still adjusting.

Here's a look: http://www.twitch.tv/huggalump/v/24106453

EDIT: I'm not sure if the video is linking properly. It's in my highlights under "1h/bow build"

Jitterbug · November 2015

Personally I would go for something like

this

I think

Tankqull · November 2015

to be honest there is no "great" S&B + bow build.
the best you can get is an ok´ish build as those two weaponlines do not synergize at all.

Jura23 · November 2015

Sypher mentioned in one of his recent vids that health regen stacking builds are rare, but effective. So thats what Im working on currently - health regen S/b / bow templar build. Im curious myself how that will turn out.

Jitterbug · November 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

Sypher mentioned in one of his recent vids that health regen stacking builds are rare, but effective. So thats what Im working on currently - health regen S/b / bow templar build. Im curious myself how that will turn out.

In my limited experience you go very low on damage to maintain a high health regen.
I don't think it's all that fun without 12 legendary BiS and 400ish cps.

Jura23 · November 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Sypher mentioned in one of his recent vids that health regen stacking builds are rare, but effective. So thats what Im working on currently - health regen S/b / bow templar build. Im curious myself how that will turn out.

In my limited experience you go very low on damage to maintain a high health regen.
I don't think it's all that fun without 12 legendary BiS and 400ish cps.

Yeah, now that I think about it, its probably not the best idea since Im also dedicated heavy armor user (5/1/1). Would make my dmg too low. I still need to think about it a bit more. I will consider jewelry enchants to be +weapon dmg and going food instead of drinks.

Speaking about bars, I think the front S/B bar is pretty much given - Toppling charge, Repentance, Defensive Stance, Ransack, Biting Jabs

Jitterbug · November 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Sypher mentioned in one of his recent vids that health regen stacking builds are rare, but effective. So thats what Im working on currently - health regen S/b / bow templar build. Im curious myself how that will turn out.

In my limited experience you go very low on damage to maintain a high health regen.
I don't think it's all that fun without 12 legendary BiS and 400ish cps.

Yeah, now that I think about it, its probably not the best idea since Im also dedicated heavy armor user (5/1/1). Would make my dmg too low. I still need to think about it a bit more. I will consider jewelry enchants to be +weapon dmg and going food instead of drinks.

Speaking about bars, I think the front S/B bar is pretty much given - Toppling charge, Repentance, Defensive Stance, Ransack, Biting Jabs

I'm playing with something like this

It's a magicka dragonknight health regen build. Probably the most hipster build out there right now

The idea is taking advantage of 5pc. Orgnum's Scales and 5 pc. Permafrost. And then I'm guessing 2 pc. Torug's and the Resto wasted unless you have Master's.

It's utterly silly, and probably useless. It's fun to theorycraft though :-P

ChefZero · November 2015

NinjaMyk wrote: »

I would go nightblade for a number of reasons. They have a class stamina based execute and neither s/b or bow has a real execute. They also have a lot of crit boosting passive a that work well with the bow being your main way of dealing damage. Mark target will help you debuff armor making your bow hit harder. Dark cloak allows you to escape and put distance between you to continue using bow. No momentum (2h) or hidden dagger (dw) leaves you with sap essence and potions to get the 20% damage buff and considering you probably want to open fights from range with the bow I would look into the potions. Also grim focus works well with a bow in my opinion especially a weighted one as getting off the 4 light attacks to activate assassins will is easy and it can take the place of snipe as your high single target dps.

Yes my thoughts were similar and i am a NB. Problem is the absence of 2H heal. And how do i dps with bow in PvP, mid attack silver leash cancel?

Reeko · November 2015

ChefZero wrote: »

NinjaMyk wrote: »

I would go nightblade for a number of reasons. They have a class stamina based execute and neither s/b or bow has a real execute. They also have a lot of crit boosting passive a that work well with the bow being your main way of dealing damage. Mark target will help you debuff armor making your bow hit harder. Dark cloak allows you to escape and put distance between you to continue using bow. No momentum (2h) or hidden dagger (dw) leaves you with sap essence and potions to get the 20% damage buff and considering you probably want to open fights from range with the bow I would look into the potions. Also grim focus works well with a bow in my opinion especially a weighted one as getting off the 4 light attacks to activate assassins will is easy and it can take the place of snipe as your high single target dps.

Yes my thoughts were similar and i am a NB. Problem is the absence of 2H heal. And how do i dps with bow in PvP, mid attack silver leash cancel?

Problem is, Snipe (and its morphs) is the main dps ability for bows. The fact you refuse to use it will hinder you greatly.

Here is what i would personally use:

S&B:
Ambush or Shielded Assault for more defensive play style (Your gap closer)
Surprise Attack (Main dps)
Reverberating Bash (Your cc and heal reduction utility)
Absorb Magick or Defensive Stance for more offensive play style (your gonna love this move)
Vigor (your main heal)
Ultimate: Soul Tether for more heals or Soul Harvest for more dps

Bow:
Piercing Mark (your main counter to nb and a decent side heal)
Dark Cloak (your main mode of escape)
Poison Injection (good dot, helps with dps)
Lethal Arrow (your main dps move and healing debuff)
Mass Hysteria or Dark Shades (either aoe cc for 1vx or extra dps for pesky dk blockers)
Ultimate: Flawless Dawnbreaker for dps or Ice Comet for ranged damage

Hope this helps!

ChefZero · November 2015

@Reeko Snipe isn't good for dps cause so many reasons. Hits/seconds is so low and you need a faster rotation against block to drain the stamina. Also you're interruptable. Think midattack PI cancel should be better.

Reeko · November 2015

ChefZero wrote: »

@Reeko Snipe isn't good for dps cause so many reasons. Hits/seconds is so low and you need a faster rotation against block to drain the stamina. Also you're interruptable. Think midattack PI cancel should be better.

If your opponent is close enough to interupt you your doing bow wrong lol.

But yes it is slow but still the hardest hitting bow move you got.

Prabooo · November 2015

yes, there is ...

http://imgur.com/0fDL96x

Calboy · November 2015

sorc pvp 1h/s with bow

ChefZero · November 2015

Reeko wrote: »

If your opponent is close enough to interupt you your doing bow wrong lol.

But yes it is slow but still the hardest hitting bow move you got.

@Reeko I use also S&B and I don't wanna avoid melee fights. So, of course they could interupt snipe. But that's the idea of this build, wanna play a balls-of-steal-build! Maybe without cloak, cause efficient purge is better if you don't need to stealth.

Think about using of Venom Arrow and Bombard. For big group pvp maybe Arrow Barrage, Caltrops and Veil of Blades. Definitely no Shield Charge cause gapcloser is waist if I can do also range dps.

Minno · November 2015

Working on a magicka varient of a S&B /bow build for templars.

S&B would be the rush in, deal with it aspect while the bow is your escape bar.

So far it works for my playstyle.

Stigant · November 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

Personally I would go for something like

this

I think

Whis seems like a lot of fun to play ... Will definetly try something similar in non-vet Cyro to try it out

The Elder Scrolls Online

Is there any great S&B and Bow build out there?

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