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Should Sorc shields scale of health?
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Digiman✭✭✭✭✭No...Won't solve the problem, shield stacking Wrobel's result from weakening light armor to wet tissue paper with uncapped stats.
Because of that Sorcerers started dying immediately unless they put on 3 different shields. Unless they properly fix the issue with sorcerers survivability, such as proper class self heal and some proper damage reduction abilities that don't require being on each weapon bar then the result will be sorcerers using shields to survive.2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No...runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »Make shields critable, problem solved. One skill make the entire build/crit/ useless. Balance eh...
Nope, that's not a valid option. Not while shields a) can't crit themselves (i.e. I can't get a 17k ward crit)
you get 15-17k without crit even now .
make them critable or add 10 sek cast cd. or bring other 2 underdog classes up to sorc lvl.
pls tell me what chanse magic user/ nm the class/ have agains the sorc? once you get overal dmg reduce from shields and second you get even higher magic dmg reduce form Harness Magicka ( i wont even count the 100+ cp points you spend on Hardy)
I can get 12K with 41,500 magicka and 100 points into Bastion. Only people with 15-17K Wards are Emperors or people making stupid builds to maximize their magicka like Mage Stone and Necropotence, Magelight, Bound aegis togglemancer garbage builds. The players with 1500+ CPs don't exist any more.
We talk abou the shields and you can EASILY stack 15k withou 100 point in bastion and without emperor(and is spamable) I give up. I play templar and sorcs cant kill me / if we match the skills/ and i just move away. Seems you guys love the lack of balance. Enjoy it then. And pls, dont forgeth the exploits, this make it even more funy to play. Cheers.
No one here is saying the harness + hardened shield stack is not OP. We're just saying that individual shield strength is not the problem or the fact they can't be crit.
Do you see ANY sorc runing with only one shield ? So shield stacking is OP,even you cant deni it, but you stil vote no ? seems legit. Open your eyes and start thinking, or soon we will have cyrodil fool of sorcs and nb`s + some random class colored zergs ... Oh waith , he already look like this. Do you enjoy it ?
And i`l tell you what exploits have with all this. I know players, good players, and i watch them on twitch.tv and when they found a bug/inbalance/ or exploit they say - I'll report it, but they never do. Gues why ?:) Most of the players dont go to PTS to find and report bugs, they go only to pick /before others/ the most op skills and to "rule" in cyro. Is the same with inbalanced skills. We all know if we report them to ZoS and IF they balance them we will FINALY have a slight chanse to enjoy a game which is not based on OP classes or skills but is based of player skills to play. But what we do, we find this skills and we "exploit" them on max feeding our ego. Is sad. Many move already, more will follow. Pity.
And the solution to OP shield STACKING is to nerf the sorc shield instead of getting rid of stacking itself? Well THAT makes a whole lot of sense - not.
Said is countless times. Harness is a broken ability against magica builds and should be reworked entirely. Healing ward should have the heal scaling on %hp of the target instead of the shield...Edited by Derra on November 5, 2015 9:08AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭No...runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
No, not lol. I faught a templar yesterday who i had almost killed, literally got him to a point where he had no health left a light attack would have killed him, and poof full health. DK's who can do the same. Nightblades who move so quick they are out of the range of my detect pots before they can even work.
all classes are equally hard to kill, if you die easily all that means is there is a fault in how you built said character.Edited by Lucky28 on November 5, 2015 11:16AMInvictus0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'
What game do you play? When you write some *** like this how do you expect that we will believe to the other things that you wrote.runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
No, not lol. I faught a templar yesterday who i had almost killed, literally got him to a point where he had no health left a light attack would have killed him, and poof full health. DK's who can do the same. Nightblades who move so quick they are out of the range of my detect pots before they can even work.
all classes are equally hard to kill, if you die easily all that means is there is a fault in how you built said character.Because I can!1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No...
What game do you play? When you write some *** like this how do you expect that we will believe to the other things that you wrote.runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
No, not lol. I faught a templar yesterday who i had almost killed, literally got him to a point where he had no health left a light attack would have killed him, and poof full health. DK's who can do the same. Nightblades who move so quick they are out of the range of my detect pots before they can even work.
all classes are equally hard to kill, if you die easily all that means is there is a fault in how you built said character.
I dunno, what game do you play?
Blessing of Restoration can be a stronger heal for a DK than Breath of Life for a Templar. That's thanks to Major Mending from Igneous Shield and Burning Heart passive when you have Spiked Armor active (which is always). A DK I play with gets 12-13k heal crits from BoR, when on my Sorc I get only ~6k crits.
Edited by Maulkin on November 5, 2015 12:13PMEU | PC | AD0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'
And this is a magicka build I guess. Just check how good are magicka DKs. And again first you have to cast a buff then a heal.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
What game do you play? When you write some *** like this how do you expect that we will believe to the other things that you wrote.runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
No, not lol. I faught a templar yesterday who i had almost killed, literally got him to a point where he had no health left a light attack would have killed him, and poof full health. DK's who can do the same. Nightblades who move so quick they are out of the range of my detect pots before they can even work.
all classes are equally hard to kill, if you die easily all that means is there is a fault in how you built said character.
I dunno, what game do you play?
Blessing of Restoration can be a stronger heal for a DK than Breath of Life for a Templar. That's thanks to Major Mending from Igneous Shield and Burning Heart passive when you have Spiked Armor active (which is always). A DK I play with gets 12-13k heal crits from BoR, when on my Sorc I get only ~6k crits.
And these values how did you get them. 6k for sorcs. As a DK with the skills that you listed you have 12% more healing recieved and 30% more healing done from the shield. 6k*1.30*1.12 = 8.7k heal. Even if you have 8 more from Coag blood it will be equal to 9.36k. All the other heal effects are accessible to your sorc too.Edited by Bashev on November 5, 2015 1:04PMBecause I can!1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No...
And this is a magicka build I guess. Just check how good are magicka DKs. And again first you have to cast a buff then a heal.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
What game do you play? When you write some *** like this how do you expect that we will believe to the other things that you wrote.runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
No, not lol. I faught a templar yesterday who i had almost killed, literally got him to a point where he had no health left a light attack would have killed him, and poof full health. DK's who can do the same. Nightblades who move so quick they are out of the range of my detect pots before they can even work.
all classes are equally hard to kill, if you die easily all that means is there is a fault in how you built said character.
I dunno, what game do you play?
Blessing of Restoration can be a stronger heal for a DK than Breath of Life for a Templar. That's thanks to Major Mending from Igneous Shield and Burning Heart passive when you have Spiked Armor active (which is always). A DK I play with gets 12-13k heal crits from BoR, when on my Sorc I get only ~6k crits.
And these values how did you get them. 6k for sorcs. As a DK with the skills that you listed you have 12% more healing recieved and 30% more healing done from the shield. 6k*1.30*1.12 = 8.7k heal. Even if you have 8 more from Coag blood it will be equal to 9.36k. All the other heal effects are accessible to your sorc too.
Yep most of them are. In this case said DK is running 5 x heavy armor and benefits from Rapid Mending and he can also afford better distribution of CPs into Blessed and Quick Recovery because he doesn't have to plonk 100 into bastion or split between Thamaturge and Elemental Expert. No major sacrifice made on the damage for that healing power.
I'm not trying to argue magica sorc is not in a better place than magicka DK. That much is obvious and I've been saying magicka DK needs some buffs. All I'm saying is that like lucky28 said a well built DK can heal impressively quick. Which is a fact and you calling it out as BS was totally wrong.
My statement is still factually correct, that BoR + 42% bonus from igneous and burning heart is a heal on par if not better than BoL (for self heals only). It will reliably give you a burst heal, when BoL's burst can go to other people.
EU | PC | AD0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No...
And this is a magicka build I guess. Just check how good are magicka DKs. And again first you have to cast a buff then a heal.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
What game do you play? When you write some *** like this how do you expect that we will believe to the other things that you wrote.runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
No, not lol. I faught a templar yesterday who i had almost killed, literally got him to a point where he had no health left a light attack would have killed him, and poof full health. DK's who can do the same. Nightblades who move so quick they are out of the range of my detect pots before they can even work.
all classes are equally hard to kill, if you die easily all that means is there is a fault in how you built said character.
I dunno, what game do you play?
Blessing of Restoration can be a stronger heal for a DK than Breath of Life for a Templar. That's thanks to Major Mending from Igneous Shield and Burning Heart passive when you have Spiked Armor active (which is always). A DK I play with gets 12-13k heal crits from BoR, when on my Sorc I get only ~6k crits.
And these values how did you get them. 6k for sorcs. As a DK with the skills that you listed you have 12% more healing recieved and 30% more healing done from the shield. 6k*1.30*1.12 = 8.7k heal. Even if you have 8 more from Coag blood it will be equal to 9.36k. All the other heal effects are accessible to your sorc too.
Yeah but why invest as much into something that isn't as effective?
If the DK (naturally) invested into healing done and received CP (wich are multiplicative), something like 12% healing received and 18% healing done, we'll have those crits, without Dragon Blood.
PS: Before you are giving me crap about this, I know magicka DK isn't in a good place right now and yes, those CP are a major investment (though still less than for a Sorc since you have next to no magic damage anyway).
Btw Maulkin, you know well enough Templar gets Major Mending as well, BoR is not on par with BoR, neither as selfheal nor groupheal.Edited by ToRelax on November 5, 2015 1:35PMDAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'
But the sorc can also put points in these passives and increase his 6k heal for more. But all of you want easy mode: cast shields and do damage. You dont care for increase healing, you can run with 18k health, you can run with 7k resists because anyway your shields do not mitigate, you can reposition fast with bolt escape and you have great range skills for dps as some amazing skills which counter your class weaknesses as mines and defensive rune.
And this is a magicka build I guess. Just check how good are magicka DKs. And again first you have to cast a buff then a heal.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
What game do you play? When you write some *** like this how do you expect that we will believe to the other things that you wrote.runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
No, not lol. I faught a templar yesterday who i had almost killed, literally got him to a point where he had no health left a light attack would have killed him, and poof full health. DK's who can do the same. Nightblades who move so quick they are out of the range of my detect pots before they can even work.
all classes are equally hard to kill, if you die easily all that means is there is a fault in how you built said character.
I dunno, what game do you play?
Blessing of Restoration can be a stronger heal for a DK than Breath of Life for a Templar. That's thanks to Major Mending from Igneous Shield and Burning Heart passive when you have Spiked Armor active (which is always). A DK I play with gets 12-13k heal crits from BoR, when on my Sorc I get only ~6k crits.
And these values how did you get them. 6k for sorcs. As a DK with the skills that you listed you have 12% more healing recieved and 30% more healing done from the shield. 6k*1.30*1.12 = 8.7k heal. Even if you have 8 more from Coag blood it will be equal to 9.36k. All the other heal effects are accessible to your sorc too.
Yeah but why invest as much into something that isn't as effective?
If the DK (naturally) invested into healing done and received CP (wich are multiplicative), something like 12% healing received and 18% healing done, we'll have those crits, without Dragon Blood.
Because I can!2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No...
But the sorc can also put points in these passives and increase his 6k heal for more. But all of you want easy mode: cast shields and do damage. You dont care for increase healing, you can run with 18k health, you can run with 7k resists because anyway your shields do not mitigate, you can reposition fast with bolt escape and you have great range skills for dps as some amazing skills which counter your class weaknesses as mines and defensive rune.
And this is a magicka build I guess. Just check how good are magicka DKs. And again first you have to cast a buff then a heal.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
What game do you play? When you write some *** like this how do you expect that we will believe to the other things that you wrote.runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
No, not lol. I faught a templar yesterday who i had almost killed, literally got him to a point where he had no health left a light attack would have killed him, and poof full health. DK's who can do the same. Nightblades who move so quick they are out of the range of my detect pots before they can even work.
all classes are equally hard to kill, if you die easily all that means is there is a fault in how you built said character.
I dunno, what game do you play?
Blessing of Restoration can be a stronger heal for a DK than Breath of Life for a Templar. That's thanks to Major Mending from Igneous Shield and Burning Heart passive when you have Spiked Armor active (which is always). A DK I play with gets 12-13k heal crits from BoR, when on my Sorc I get only ~6k crits.
And these values how did you get them. 6k for sorcs. As a DK with the skills that you listed you have 12% more healing recieved and 30% more healing done from the shield. 6k*1.30*1.12 = 8.7k heal. Even if you have 8 more from Coag blood it will be equal to 9.36k. All the other heal effects are accessible to your sorc too.
Yeah but why invest as much into something that isn't as effective?
If the DK (naturally) invested into healing done and received CP (wich are multiplicative), something like 12% healing received and 18% healing done, we'll have those crits, without Dragon Blood.
I actually have around 20 points in both healing passives. And 22k HP. with 19k spell resist and 14k armor buffed. But what is that about wanting easy mode? If I wanted easy mode I'd hardly play the way I do and probably wouldn't have played my Sorc all the way through 1.5 either. Don't blame the players with atm strong classes that ZOS doesn't buff yours.Edited by ToRelax on November 5, 2015 1:52PMDAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No...But the sorc can also put points in these passives and increase his 6k heal for more. But all of you want easy mode: cast shields and do damage. You dont care for increase healing, you can run with 18k health, you can run with 7k resists because anyway your shields do not mitigate, you can reposition fast with bolt escape and you have great range skills for dps as some amazing skills which counter your class weaknesses as mines and defensive rune.
What on beelzebub's holy name are you talking about?
1) I do put points into increased healing but as I don't have any passives or abilities that increase my healing there's it's inefficient putting too many there. You add points to what makes your build stronger. Putting points into Bastion instead of Quick Recovery is more beneficial to a sorc while it's the opposite for a DK. I'm still allocating points to defense, just of different form. I'm sorry I don't allocate points inefficiently I guess?
2) What 7k resists? Base is like 12-13k. I have 16k armor and 20k spell resist. Where do you come up with these assumptions?
Sorc can't heal quick. That's a fact. Building a tanky Sorc with very high resistances and best possible healing is extremely inefficient because you don't have anything in the class that synergises with tankiness. It's like you building a DK with 100 CPS into bastion and all your damage in Thaumaturge when the class has 99% elemental damage and a crappy (in size) shield. Pointless.Btw Maulkin, you know well enough Templar gets Major Mending as well, BoR is not on par with BoR, neither as selfheal nor groupheal.
Not the last time I checked. Did something change? It definitely did not use to be the case. Not in 1.6 anywayEU | PC | AD0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'
I dont expect that ZoS will buf directly some classes. Particularly magicka DK or stamina Templ because they did only once so far. It was for the NB. No other class got any buffs that were planed. Sorcs became OP because of the soft cap removal. Stamina classes were buffed indirectly with the CP system which in their favor.
But the sorc can also put points in these passives and increase his 6k heal for more. But all of you want easy mode: cast shields and do damage. You dont care for increase healing, you can run with 18k health, you can run with 7k resists because anyway your shields do not mitigate, you can reposition fast with bolt escape and you have great range skills for dps as some amazing skills which counter your class weaknesses as mines and defensive rune.
And this is a magicka build I guess. Just check how good are magicka DKs. And again first you have to cast a buff then a heal.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
What game do you play? When you write some *** like this how do you expect that we will believe to the other things that you wrote.runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
No, not lol. I faught a templar yesterday who i had almost killed, literally got him to a point where he had no health left a light attack would have killed him, and poof full health. DK's who can do the same. Nightblades who move so quick they are out of the range of my detect pots before they can even work.
all classes are equally hard to kill, if you die easily all that means is there is a fault in how you built said character.
I dunno, what game do you play?
Blessing of Restoration can be a stronger heal for a DK than Breath of Life for a Templar. That's thanks to Major Mending from Igneous Shield and Burning Heart passive when you have Spiked Armor active (which is always). A DK I play with gets 12-13k heal crits from BoR, when on my Sorc I get only ~6k crits.
And these values how did you get them. 6k for sorcs. As a DK with the skills that you listed you have 12% more healing recieved and 30% more healing done from the shield. 6k*1.30*1.12 = 8.7k heal. Even if you have 8 more from Coag blood it will be equal to 9.36k. All the other heal effects are accessible to your sorc too.
Yeah but why invest as much into something that isn't as effective?
If the DK (naturally) invested into healing done and received CP (wich are multiplicative), something like 12% healing received and 18% healing done, we'll have those crits, without Dragon Blood.
I actually have around 20 points in both healing passives. But what is that about wanting easy mode? If I wanted easy mode I'd hardly play the way I do and probably wouldn't have played my Sorc all the way through 1.5 either. Don't blame the players with atm strong classes that ZOS is doesn't buff yours.
But probably you are right, I should ask more for buffs rather than nerfs.
Because I can!0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No...mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
Damn, you're right. It's 30% increased Healing inside the Ritual, but actually, that's even better. So the point still stands.
DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Sentinel✭✭✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'I voted for scaling off of health as then Sorcs could benefit with their shield in a wider variety of builds, such as a stam sorc, a tanky stam and magicka sorc. It doesn't need to be considered a nerf, it would just introduce builds with people finding a balance between offense and defense. Glass cannons will lose from this, yes, but in their place a whole new variety of builds even tankier than before will arise. Im not sure that building offensive stats also building defensive stats is healthy for the game. It promotes glass cannon builds that are not so much 'glass' anymore and achieve the highest of everything.3 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No...I voted for scaling off of health as then Sorcs could benefit with their shield in a wider variety of builds, such as a stam sorc, a tanky stam and magicka sorc. It doesn't need to be considered a nerf, it would just introduce builds with people finding a balance between offense and defense. Glass cannons will lose from this, yes, but in their place a whole new variety of builds even tankier than before will arise. Im not sure that building offensive stats also building defensive stats is healthy for the game. It promotes glass cannon builds that are not so much 'glass' anymore and achieve the highest of everything.
Do you think magicka NBs and Templars are weak or easy to kill? I hope not, and yet a Templar's shield scales with their health, while a NB doesn't even have a class shield. But their heals are scaling with their main offensive stats, max magicka and spell damage, plus magicka allows for more uses obviously, wich is important in the case of Cloak (since that doesn't scale at all).DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Sentinel✭✭✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'@ToRelax
And? I'm looking explicitly at Sorcs at the moment, and how to balance defense vs offense with them. Talking about other classes is a different topic and one ripe with its own balance issues. Other classes are very much imperfect too, and discussion about how to increase diversity with them by reducing the efficiency of glass cannons is another topic, but that doesn't diminish the value of this step with Sorcs.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No...I voted for scaling off of health as then Sorcs could benefit with their shield in a wider variety of builds, such as a stam sorc, a tanky stam and magicka sorc. It doesn't need to be considered a nerf, it would just introduce builds with people finding a balance between offense and defense. Glass cannons will lose from this, yes, but in their place a whole new variety of builds even tankier than before will arise. Im not sure that building offensive stats also building defensive stats is healthy for the game. It promotes glass cannon builds that are not so much 'glass' anymore and achieve the highest of everything.
Lol. How would Hardened Ward scaling off HP give rise to tanky stam/magicka sorcs?
What tanky build relies on wards instead of heals? How many tanky magicka builds (DK or Templar) have more HP than magicka? Even now, if Igneous Shield and Blazing Shield scaled off Magicka instead of HP it would be a buff to magicka tanks.
You know why? Because heals scale off the same offensive stats (magicka/spell damage or stamina/wpn damage for stamina tank). So even tanks are better off throwing loads of points behind their primary damage stat instead of HP.
Sorcs have no exclusivity whatsoever in getting the best out of maximising magicka. It applies to all others too. If you think that making Hardened Ward scale off HP is not a nerf (for a class with no heals like BoL or defense mechanics like Scales) then you are dangerously clueless.
Edited by Maulkin on November 5, 2015 3:11PMEU | PC | AD3 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No...mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
Damn, you're right. It's 30% increased Healing inside the Ritual, but actually, that's even better. So the point still stands.
Definitely not for me.
Ritual is a 2" cast time and then requires you to stay within the Ritual. Which is why most Templars I know don't run it, because it is a huge sacrifice on mobility. It also doesn't buff your heals to everyone, just the heals received. By comparison Igneous Shield is instant, grants you a buff that moves with you, buffs all healing done and gives a small shield.
The only clear advantage I see is the fact one is a class skill and does not require a particular weapon equipped. If BoR was a DK skill you could cast with S&B equipped, DKs would self heal with it much better than Templars currently do with BoL, guaranteed. But since BoL is a smart heal with no LOS checks, they would still be the better group healers.EU | PC | AD0 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭No...runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »Keep your wishes. If you think i QQ then you have some serious problems too. If they fix it with inc class changes, it will be nice. If they dont ... Well we have a million choices. Whatever.
It's hard to take rage QQ seriously, especially when they can't even spell or grammar.0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No...runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »Make shields critable, problem solved. One skill make the entire build/crit/ useless. Balance eh...
Nope, that's not a valid option. Not while shields a) can't crit themselves (i.e. I can't get a 17k ward crit)
you get 15-17k without crit even now .
make them critable or add 10 sek cast cd. or bring other 2 underdog classes up to sorc lvl.
pls tell me what chanse magic user/ nm the class/ have agains the sorc? once you get overal dmg reduce from shields and second you get even higher magic dmg reduce form Harness Magicka ( i wont even count the 100+ cp points you spend on Hardy)
I can get 12K with 41,500 magicka and 100 points into Bastion. Only people with 15-17K Wards are Emperors or people making stupid builds to maximize their magicka like Mage Stone and Necropotence, Magelight, Bound aegis togglemancer garbage builds. The players with 1500+ CPs don't exist any more.
We talk abou the shields and you can EASILY stack 15k withou 100 point in bastion and without emperor(and is spamable) I give up. I play templar and sorcs cant kill me / if we match the skills/ and i just move away. Seems you guys love the lack of balance. Enjoy it then. And pls, dont forgeth the exploits, this make it even more funy to play. Cheers.
No one here is saying the harness + hardened shield stack is not OP. We're just saying that individual shield strength is not the problem or the fact they can't be crit.
Do you see ANY sorc runing with only one shield ? So shield stacking is OP,even you cant deni it, but you stil vote no ? seems legit. Open your eyes and start thinking, or soon we will have cyrodil fool of sorcs and nb`s + some random class colored zergs ... Oh waith , he already look like this. Do you enjoy it ?
And i`l tell you what exploits have with all this. I know players, good players, and i watch them on twitch.tv and when they found a bug/inbalance/ or exploit they say - I'll report it, but they never do. Gues why ?:) Most of the players dont go to PTS to find and report bugs, they go only to pick /before others/ the most op skills and to "rule" in cyro. Is the same with inbalanced skills. We all know if we report them to ZoS and IF they balance them we will FINALY have a slight chanse to enjoy a game which is not based on OP classes or skills but is based of player skills to play. But what we do, we find this skills and we "exploit" them on max feeding our ego. Is sad. Many move already, more will follow. Pity.
*Raises hand*
I only use Conjured ward. No harness magicka, no healing ward. I 1v1'ed another Sorc emperor using my build last week so if anyone needs to open their eyes it is you because you've been wrong with everything you're saying. I'm sure as hell not using exploits but I'm a pretty intelligent guy and I know how to craft a competent set of gear and put together a well rounded build that can handle virtually any situation. That coupled with my knowledge of the mechanics and inner workings of the game makes me a strong PvPer. It's really nothing special to be honest which is why when I hear people throw around all these insults at skilled players I get a little miffed.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »Make shields critable, problem solved. One skill make the entire build/crit/ useless. Balance eh...
Nope, that's not a valid option. Not while shields a) can't crit themselves (i.e. I can't get a 17k ward crit) b) offer 0 armor/spell mitigation. That's the disadvantage of shields as opposed to heals. Their advantages are that they sit on top of your HP (extending it in a way beyond you max HP) and that they can't be crit. It's a different mechanic that adds variety.
Also crit is not useless, I'm running loads of it. Tons of players without shields out there and also when you bring a light armor player's shields down, crit damage really hurts them because their mitigation is crap and no one is running impenetrable, relying on shields for crit protection.
Like Ez says, Crit builds shouldn't be Alpha builds. The go to builds for PvP. They already nerfed blocking which was another anti-crit mechanic, they buffed thief mundus, they fixed impenetrable. If shields can be crit as well, we'll all be running crit builds.
And as stamina builds get higher crits due to medium armor passives and daggers passives this will make the bias towards stamina in PvP even greater. No thanks
They just need to look at the Hardened Ward + Harness Magicka stack. That's the only thing op about shields atm. Everything else is baseless QQ.
Well thank you for being honest. Wish there was more of you and Ezareth.0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
And this is a magicka build I guess. Just check how good are magicka DKs. And again first you have to cast a buff then a heal.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
What game do you play? When you write some *** like this how do you expect that we will believe to the other things that you wrote.runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
No, not lol. I faught a templar yesterday who i had almost killed, literally got him to a point where he had no health left a light attack would have killed him, and poof full health. DK's who can do the same. Nightblades who move so quick they are out of the range of my detect pots before they can even work.
all classes are equally hard to kill, if you die easily all that means is there is a fault in how you built said character.
I dunno, what game do you play?
Blessing of Restoration can be a stronger heal for a DK than Breath of Life for a Templar. That's thanks to Major Mending from Igneous Shield and Burning Heart passive when you have Spiked Armor active (which is always). A DK I play with gets 12-13k heal crits from BoR, when on my Sorc I get only ~6k crits.
And these values how did you get them. 6k for sorcs. As a DK with the skills that you listed you have 12% more healing recieved and 30% more healing done from the shield. 6k*1.30*1.12 = 8.7k heal. Even if you have 8 more from Coag blood it will be equal to 9.36k. All the other heal effects are accessible to your sorc too.
Yep most of them are. In this case said DK is running 5 x heavy armor and benefits from Rapid Mending and he can also afford better distribution of CPs into Blessed and Quick Recovery because he doesn't have to plonk 100 into bastion or split between Thamaturge and Elemental Expert. No major sacrifice made on the damage for that healing power.
I'm not trying to argue magica sorc is not in a better place than magicka DK. That much is obvious and I've been saying magicka DK needs some buffs. All I'm saying is that like lucky28 said a well built DK can heal impressively quick. Which is a fact and you calling it out as BS was totally wrong.
My statement is still factually correct, that BoR + 42% bonus from igneous and burning heart is a heal on par if not better than BoL (for self heals only). It will reliably give you a burst heal, when BoL's burst can go to other people.
Come on man. You lost me.
That Magicka DK you reference has zero chance of killing you. Lol what does the heal matter. Also it's rediculous he is using a non class heal instead of gdb. Buts that is where we are at.0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »Keep your wishes. If you think i QQ then you have some serious problems too. If they fix it with inc class changes, it will be nice. If they dont ... Well we have a million choices. Whatever.
It's hard to take rage QQ seriously, especially when they can't even spell or grammar.
What a terrible comeback.
Was there a point to that? Hush hush. The adults are talking.
And no, I am not one of them. Lol0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No...Darnathian wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
And this is a magicka build I guess. Just check how good are magicka DKs. And again first you have to cast a buff then a heal.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
What game do you play? When you write some *** like this how do you expect that we will believe to the other things that you wrote.runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
No, not lol. I faught a templar yesterday who i had almost killed, literally got him to a point where he had no health left a light attack would have killed him, and poof full health. DK's who can do the same. Nightblades who move so quick they are out of the range of my detect pots before they can even work.
all classes are equally hard to kill, if you die easily all that means is there is a fault in how you built said character.
I dunno, what game do you play?
Blessing of Restoration can be a stronger heal for a DK than Breath of Life for a Templar. That's thanks to Major Mending from Igneous Shield and Burning Heart passive when you have Spiked Armor active (which is always). A DK I play with gets 12-13k heal crits from BoR, when on my Sorc I get only ~6k crits.
And these values how did you get them. 6k for sorcs. As a DK with the skills that you listed you have 12% more healing recieved and 30% more healing done from the shield. 6k*1.30*1.12 = 8.7k heal. Even if you have 8 more from Coag blood it will be equal to 9.36k. All the other heal effects are accessible to your sorc too.
Yep most of them are. In this case said DK is running 5 x heavy armor and benefits from Rapid Mending and he can also afford better distribution of CPs into Blessed and Quick Recovery because he doesn't have to plonk 100 into bastion or split between Thamaturge and Elemental Expert. No major sacrifice made on the damage for that healing power.
I'm not trying to argue magica sorc is not in a better place than magicka DK. That much is obvious and I've been saying magicka DK needs some buffs. All I'm saying is that like lucky28 said a well built DK can heal impressively quick. Which is a fact and you calling it out as BS was totally wrong.
My statement is still factually correct, that BoR + 42% bonus from igneous and burning heart is a heal on par if not better than BoL (for self heals only). It will reliably give you a burst heal, when BoL's burst can go to other people.
Come on man. You lost me.
That Magicka DK you reference has zero chance of killing you. Lol what does the heal matter. Also it's rediculous he is using a non class heal instead of gdb. Buts that is where we are at.
He was only refuting the point made that a DK had no way to go from low health to full health and he is in fact correct. He wasn't arguing anything else. As far as non class heals....well we all understand how that feels ( =Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No...Darnathian wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
And this is a magicka build I guess. Just check how good are magicka DKs. And again first you have to cast a buff then a heal.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
What game do you play? When you write some *** like this how do you expect that we will believe to the other things that you wrote.runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
No, not lol. I faught a templar yesterday who i had almost killed, literally got him to a point where he had no health left a light attack would have killed him, and poof full health. DK's who can do the same. Nightblades who move so quick they are out of the range of my detect pots before they can even work.
all classes are equally hard to kill, if you die easily all that means is there is a fault in how you built said character.
I dunno, what game do you play?
Blessing of Restoration can be a stronger heal for a DK than Breath of Life for a Templar. That's thanks to Major Mending from Igneous Shield and Burning Heart passive when you have Spiked Armor active (which is always). A DK I play with gets 12-13k heal crits from BoR, when on my Sorc I get only ~6k crits.
And these values how did you get them. 6k for sorcs. As a DK with the skills that you listed you have 12% more healing recieved and 30% more healing done from the shield. 6k*1.30*1.12 = 8.7k heal. Even if you have 8 more from Coag blood it will be equal to 9.36k. All the other heal effects are accessible to your sorc too.
Yep most of them are. In this case said DK is running 5 x heavy armor and benefits from Rapid Mending and he can also afford better distribution of CPs into Blessed and Quick Recovery because he doesn't have to plonk 100 into bastion or split between Thamaturge and Elemental Expert. No major sacrifice made on the damage for that healing power.
I'm not trying to argue magica sorc is not in a better place than magicka DK. That much is obvious and I've been saying magicka DK needs some buffs. All I'm saying is that like lucky28 said a well built DK can heal impressively quick. Which is a fact and you calling it out as BS was totally wrong.
My statement is still factually correct, that BoR + 42% bonus from igneous and burning heart is a heal on par if not better than BoL (for self heals only). It will reliably give you a burst heal, when BoL's burst can go to other people.
Come on man. You lost me.
That Magicka DK you reference has zero chance of killing you. Lol what does the heal matter. Also it's rediculous he is using a non class heal instead of gdb. Buts that is where we are at.
It was a response to a comment that said DKs can't heal fast enough. I explained how they can as I play with a DK that does. He is the CC tank in my group. His damage is not too bad, he has plenty of Max Magicka and Spell Damage but his role is not there to be a primary DD. We have 2 NBs and a Sorc for that role
His chances of killing me 1v1, if I'm not afk, are very very small. That is because of two issues:
1) Shield stack of hardened + harness is OP and he'll never get through that
2) Magicka DK doesn't have much burst. Take Flight is phys damage and the execute is useless when playing s&b heavy.
The second is a problem with DKs which needs addressing. The first is an issue with shield stacking which all experienced sorcs keep saying that also needs addressing.
Reducing the size of Hardened to make it scale with HP will make it like a ~5k shield. It still won't solve the problem of stacking two shields against magicka builds as Harness being a Light Armor skill will always scale with magicka. What will happen, is we'll have Sorcs getting instagibbed by stamina builds right left and centre. That is not an acceptable proposal.
The irony of all this, is that the thread was made by a stamina NB who admitted that he "rips though shields" (quote for reference).
Yet despite acknowledging that stam builds have no problem with shields, he's still asking for a nerf to the Sorc shield.nordickittyhawk wrote: »Yeah as stam i rip through shields i just wish magic people could have same benfit as stam.Edited by Maulkin on November 5, 2015 3:31PMEU | PC | AD2 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'I voted for scaling off of health as then Sorcs could benefit with their shield in a wider variety of builds, such as a stam sorc, a tanky stam and magicka sorc. It doesn't need to be considered a nerf, it would just introduce builds with people finding a balance between offense and defense. Glass cannons will lose from this, yes, but in their place a whole new variety of builds even tankier than before will arise. Im not sure that building offensive stats also building defensive stats is healthy for the game. It promotes glass cannon builds that are not so much 'glass' anymore and achieve the highest of everything.
This is essentially my same reason.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>1 -
nordickittyhawk✭✭✭✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'I voted for scaling off of health as then Sorcs could benefit with their shield in a wider variety of builds, such as a stam sorc, a tanky stam and magicka sorc. It doesn't need to be considered a nerf, it would just introduce builds with people finding a balance between offense and defense. Glass cannons will lose from this, yes, but in their place a whole new variety of builds even tankier than before will arise. Im not sure that building offensive stats also building defensive stats is healthy for the game. It promotes glass cannon builds that are not so much 'glass' anymore and achieve the highest of everything.
Well said
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