Maelstrom Arena is Elite Level, not Veteran

Defilted · November 2015

Docmandu wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I was planning to wait until the weekend to focus on the arena, but I guess I need to go ahead and do it if I want to experience the intended difficulty. Judging by the amount of whining, next week's forecast is cloudy with an 80% chance of nerfs.

I can already imagine the emergency meeting @ ZOS called in by the sales guys...

It is NoNerfNovember. There is no Nerfs allowed! It was already called on the forums. ZOS you must resist the temptation to Nerf so that I can experience this content prior to nerf on the XBOX.

Please let it just be hard! We have already seen it is not impossible. I watched vid of Vet16 Templar beat the last boss this morning.

Ghost-Shot · November 2015

The patch has been out for one day and there are already several completions, no nerfs needed. It took two full patches for the first hard mode Sanctum clear and you didnt see any of us asking for nerfs to kill it, we just had to get good.

maxlax28b14_ESO · November 2015

Alright guys, maybe for once, something is meant to be ridiculously hard, look at sanctum. It took people months to complete, and people already have completes... You think that's elite?? Clearing and the first day of launch, please, just go and learn. Spend the countless hours as we all do to learn adapt and have fun. if you don't like it learn to play the mmo, or adapt, or just simply leave

baratron · November 2015

I am expecting to find Maelstrom Arena very hard because I play best as part of a team. I'm used to playing as Healer and doing around 5-10k DPS while I heal the rest of the group, with my Tank to sponge up the damage and a couple of "elite" (cough) DPSes each doing double the DPS that I manage.

A few months ago I was here on the forum whining about how impossible Veteran Crypt of Hearts was. I've since completed it a whole bunch of times, along with Veteran City of Ash and Veteran White-Gold Tower and Veteran Imperial City Prison, all at v16 on hard mode. It's a case of learning mechanics and working with your group to make sure that you have the right skills between you. Adjusting the group's build.

I am expecting Maelstrom Arena to be impossibly difficult at the beginning because there'll only be me. I know I don't do good DPS because I literally can't hit the buttons quickly enough. I'll have to make sure that my build is right, and as a Magicka-based Sorc I'll be losing one slot already by having Inner Light on both bars. But y'know? I am looking forward to the challenge of having to solo something.

I remember how ridiculous Veteran Imperial City Prison was when it was released, and how 4 x v16s struggled with it at v1. And how those same 4 players managed it relatively easily at v16 on hard mode last week. New content should be hard, you shouldn't expect to be able to complete it first time without dying a whole load.

Ezareth · November 2015

CarbonHD wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

As I said, you're arguing semantics. You are in fact a normal player and a version of the Arena was designed for your pleasure. If you find the Normal mode of the Arena is perhaps too easy for you, should you not instead be lobbying for it to be buffed to a suitable level of difficulty until you're able to get your big boy britches on and head into Vet mode?

Lobbying it to be buffed to a suitable level? The day of the reading comprehension class at your school you were absent, right? In no post nor opinion in this thread I have requested the arena to be nerfed. OMG! As mentioned above, you may "L2r".

Also, I don't want to nor can change my class as it has been explained above. I have time for just one character, not several VR16 classes as other players have, so if Devs created imbalanced stuff that's then the situation, not a L2p to try to have the PERFECT WARRIOR FOR X CLASS to complete a dungeon.

r = read

Where did I mention you asking to nerf anything? Seems like you should take your own advice pal.. That record is broken!

A guy on PTS completed the Arena on all 4 classes. ZoS has completed it on all 4 Classes as well using template chars as part of their testing. Once you learn the mechanics of the fight it's merely challenging as it should be. I'm being successful in a PvP build as a total PvE novice. If I can do it, you can too.

Xjcon wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

CavalierPrime wrote: »

Maybe your skill bars are suboptimal, you dont block, you make junk potions, you dont use reflective scales, you dont understand the mechanics...

Im a v16 dragonknight with only 135 cp and I expect to complete it. Why? Because I saw my group get housed on Sanct. Ophidia over and over and over again, until all 12 people finally knew the mechanics by heart and did the right things. It sounds like Maelstrom is the same deal. You go from wiping to completing based on strategy alone.

Fair enough, but the OP was right, 90+% of players will probably find this a near impossible challenge, at least at first. Keep in mind that a lot of people who will be playing this are solo players who've never even done Dragonstar Arena before, and so aren't very experienced at stuff like learning the mechanics of an arena.

This is not to say that I think it needs to be nerfed or anything, but I do really wish everyone would tone it down with the L2P posts. Just because someone happens to be an elite player who can complete every vet trial with a blindfold on (or so they brag), doesn't mean they have to be a jerk about it when someone else is having problems with it.

Maybe responders should try an encouraging tone and some tips, instead of just spewing out the standard "You suck newb! L2P!" reply. Just a thought.

That would take away from their Eggo.

CyrusArya · November 2015

@olsborg you think having to switch your build around is a bad thing? The whole combat system in this game is built around having a massive arsenal of skills to drag and drop as necessary to meet the challenge at hand. There is no cookie cutter build that will carry you through every facet of the game. In fact, this aspect of vet maelstrom is one of my favorite parts about it so far. That each stage presents unique challenges that requires you to rethink your build and playstyle. Success in this trial hinges on you having mastery of your class. And mastery of your class means knowing what your class is capable of doing to counter any situation, with everything at your disposal.

So far I've only made it to stage 7, and yes it is incredibly frustrating. But I'm loving the challenge and really hope ZoS doesn't nerf it. There's really nothing else in this game that pushes the strongest builds to their very limits. If anything, make a middle tier for people not up to the challenge.

omfgitsbatman · November 2015

This was not designed to be beaten by everyone in the first day. Put some time and effort into it. You'll get it eventually. Just because you can't do it your first time around does not mean that it is impossible. Go in, get as far as you can, bang your head against the wall for a while. Change up your gear/skills a little bit, go back in. Ask for tips from people that have done it. If you ask me for tips, I'd give them to you. I was not able to beat the place on my first attempt, but I eventually beat it. It is hard, but doable if you are focused. This is really not much different than VDSA was when it came out. It was just as tough, if not more so.
This place takes a lot of time, patience, and flexibility. Not getting it your first time is expected. If you don't have the time or patience, don't worry, it will be nerfed soon enough. Either wait for that or do normal.

DUTCH_REAPER · November 2015

Does normal mode drop the same weapons that vet mode does but V15 blue instead?

I will make some new sets of armor for specific levels for my characters. SORCS got that awesome massive damage shield and range, but I don't play a sorc

Dragonnord · November 2015

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Does normal mode drop the same weapons that vet mode does but V15 blue instead?

I will make some new sets of armor for specific levels for my characters. SORCS got that awesome massive damage shield and range, but I don't play a sorc

Not sure, but I have completed normal mode several times and never got, for example, a Maelstrom gear or weapon. So, Maelstrom at least, I think not.

olsborg · November 2015

@CyrusArya , I guess im just too "pvp-mindset" for the arena, I mean ive never like pve in eso since the beginning. With all the bugs that was back then it kinda defiled it for me for life I think. Dunno why I tried to get back to it now..

Changing builds to cater for something specific is imo a bad thing, and I dont take enjoyment from it.
Being a pure pvper since forever, and I love the pvp (when not laggy or buggy) I have basicly one build for any kind of oponent, it feels much better to have my basic build to meet the skill of any players, not trying to switch it up just to get an advantage over said player. Sure my build sometimes evolves when I want to change it up, but thats just due to trying out something new to have fun or just different, but thats far between.

Wycks · November 2015

The problem is not that its hard, its the some of the mechanics are just bad, the RNG factor makes it frustrating because even when you do everything right you will still die 100x to a crappy or buggy mechanic.

I think people are more then ok with blaming themselves if they make mistakes, but RNG takes this out of the equation.

So its really not just skill, but random lackluster mechanics , this is why majika shield classes have it 100% easier, good luck trying to clear VET hard mode on a stamina melee build.....those shields soak up the RNG.

iliatha · November 2015

bob.ellisonb16_ESO wrote: »

The problem is not that its hard, its the some of the mechanics are just bad, the RNG factor makes it frustrating because even when you do everything right you will still die 100x to a crappy or buggy mechanic

disagree. you need just practice to do complete runs with under 2-3 death. At least i know some players of my guild who are doing it right now, using helps only in last stage etc. There are even players who cleared it in their first run. Stamina specced ppl too.

Not much of random or "too hard" for me. I like it so far, yesterday i ended my run at 4th boss, today after 6th boss. Its not too easy and i am progressing enough to want to do more runs.

Alcast · November 2015

iliatha wrote: »

bob.ellisonb16_ESO wrote: »

The problem is not that its hard, its the some of the mechanics are just bad, the RNG factor makes it frustrating because even when you do everything right you will still die 100x to a crappy or buggy mechanic

disagree. you need just practice to do complete runs with under 2-3 death. At least i know some players of my guild who are doing it right now, using helps only in last stage etc. There are even players who cleared it in their first run. Stamina specced ppl too.

Not much of random or "too hard" for me. I like it so far, yesterday i ended my run at 4th boss, today after 6th boss. Its not too easy and i am progressing enough to want to do more runs.

The ONLY thing that I think is overpowered as f... are the Daedroth on stage 9...me as stamina without any shield (and cannot dodge it) + it is like a 20m range, it is grilling me up so hard.....I made it through with 3 Stam classes so far Temp/DK/Sorc.....and its always this Daedroth that f..me up so much...other things are fine

Salmonoid · November 2015

Let me get this straight..

So because you can't complete the content the first time you try it, you haven't changed your playstyle or build for a solo arena setting and haven't learnt the mechanics you think ZOS should nerf if to the ground so you can just waltz on through it?

You are a truly pathetic person, pathetic.

wrathofrraath · November 2015

What exactly is the problem with having an elite level dungeon again ?

itsDeej · November 2015

It's been released for 2 days, Idk how you can even say it's too hard already. It's like any other game you have to die and learn, die and learn and so on until you figured out strategys to either make it farther or even to complete it. I mean how long did it take you to complete your first vet dungeon? I can tell you it took me many times and groups to learn some of the mechanics for success.
Ps. No nerffs until us console players can give it a try!

Zilch · November 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

A guy on PTS completed the Arena on all 4 classes. ZoS has completed it on all 4 Classes as well using template chars as part of their testing. Once you learn the mechanics of the fight it's merely challenging as it should be. I'm being successful in a PvP build as a total PvE novice. If I can do it, you can too

Would you mind providing any kind of proof to this statement: "ZoS has completed it on all 4 classes....".

Did you even watch the ESO Live? The ESO Live was obviously pre-recorded in normal, because there would be no way, such incompetence would be able to do it in current veteran without being... well incompetent.

Regarding your claim that any of the 4 classes can do the arena, you do realise that there are 2 different specs for each class right? Which evidently makes 8 variables instead of the proclaimed 4.

Your signature states both magicka sorc and NB. I'm going to assume that you did this on either your magicka sorc or NB, most likely the sorc, which are probably the two classes which should have the easiest task in the arena.

Regarding challenge; there is absolutely nothing challenging about dying to RNG. Many of the stages has a lot of RNG bound to them. As long as you are persitent enough, you will gradually proceed through some of the stages, which can be very tedious due to RNG, or you can be luckier and do it on fewer tries.

talon_vib14_ESO · November 2015

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

You need to beat it in one go. You can't come back later and continue.

Thanks. Still leave it and come back. It will still be there for the rest of this games lifetime. If I get to the point of frustration in a game I step away and come back to it another day. Not saying give up all together just take a beat.

TheBull · November 2015

All I hear is "I made this AWESOME build. I expect to win!"

Maybe your build isn't that awesome? Maybe your not that good? No shame in that. Work at it get better. The only shame in not being good enough is crying and blaming something beside yourself.

-posted in another thread. belongs here too.

notimetocare · November 2015

Defilted wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I was planning to wait until the weekend to focus on the arena, but I guess I need to go ahead and do it if I want to experience the intended difficulty. Judging by the amount of whining, next week's forecast is cloudy with an 80% chance of nerfs.

I can already imagine the emergency meeting @ ZOS called in by the sales guys...

It is NoNerfNovember. There is no Nerfs allowed! It was already called on the forums. ZOS you must resist the temptation to Nerf so that I can experience this content prior to nerf on the XBOX.

Please let it just be hard! We have already seen it is not impossible. I watched vid of Vet16 Templar beat the last boss this morning.

When we see a video of a stam and magicka build of both classes finish it, then you can say it is fine. Until then it should be reasonable to nerf parts of it.

jbcrocks · November 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

CarbonHD wrote: »

I'm a VETERAN 16 DK, played the Maelstrom Arena veteran mode and could barely advance.

Veteran is vCoA, vWGT is veteran and vICP is veteran, already VERY challenging, therefore, I consider Malestrom Arena elite, not veteran.

Imagine I'm a VR1 and I can't complete veteran Maelstrom Arena. It's OK. I grow to VR16, I get VR16 gear and get a lot of CPs. OK, I'm ready. Nope! Still not doable. And when I say "doable" I mean that 1 out of 100 players can do it (1.000 if you like, 10.000?), not 1 out of 1.000.000.

This is elite, a level that hasn't yet be implemented in TESO, not veteran. Maybe a few players out of millions can complete it, same as a poor amateur team sometimes beats Barcelona in a friendly soccer game. Still, that doesn't make that poor amateur team a pro team.

Maelstrom Arena is not veteran, is elite.

Maybe it has been made this hard on purpose because, if it's clear that veteran is vCoA, vWGT and vICP, still not doable for the majority of the veteran players, and you still create something even harder, waaay more harder, it's undoubtly on purpose and with a reason.

What purpose and reason? I have no idea.

On a side note: I have completed normal mode and it was still challenging and fun, so I'm sooo happy!

Stop complaining and begging for nerfs. Content shouldn't be completed by everyone day 1. I remember when v coa came out there weren't a ton of people who could actually complete it. Now that the mechanics are out and all the strategies it's a cake walk. Same with vICP and vwgt people complained to no end about the difficulty of those 2 dungeons when they first came out and now everyone can do them and they've been out for just over 2 months.

Also you are playing one of the weaker specs in there. Try out a mag nb or mag sorc and it will be far easier. Also on my Dk complete it didn't take me hours and hours and hours. It took me 2 hours and 12 deaths. So I used about 10k in pots and maybe 2k on repairs. So I definitely didn't spend 100k. I will be posting a guide for both sorc and mag Dk within the coming week to help out everyone that's having trouble.

Sneaky. They are frustrated. That's all. You are a top 5% player. And it took you 2 hours and 12 deaths. Imagine the average to below average player.

Also. Not a lot of people have every class.

It took him 2 hours and 12 deaths and God knows how many hours learning it on the PTS. I spent about 3 hours on that garbage PTS char with a weighted staff and got stuck on the 4th arena using a copied crappy build that I've never played. I don't know anyone who has breezed through MAelstrom in two hours without spending at least a good dozen hours learning the mechanics on PTS.

It can take you lots of hours with a sorc or nb but more with a dk I think.

Darnathian · November 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

CarbonHD wrote: »

I'm a VETERAN 16 DK, played the Maelstrom Arena veteran mode and could barely advance.

Veteran is vCoA, vWGT is veteran and vICP is veteran, already VERY challenging, therefore, I consider Malestrom Arena elite, not veteran.

Imagine I'm a VR1 and I can't complete veteran Maelstrom Arena. It's OK. I grow to VR16, I get VR16 gear and get a lot of CPs. OK, I'm ready. Nope! Still not doable. And when I say "doable" I mean that 1 out of 100 players can do it (1.000 if you like, 10.000?), not 1 out of 1.000.000.

This is elite, a level that hasn't yet be implemented in TESO, not veteran. Maybe a few players out of millions can complete it, same as a poor amateur team sometimes beats Barcelona in a friendly soccer game. Still, that doesn't make that poor amateur team a pro team.

Maelstrom Arena is not veteran, is elite.

Maybe it has been made this hard on purpose because, if it's clear that veteran is vCoA, vWGT and vICP, still not doable for the majority of the veteran players, and you still create something even harder, waaay more harder, it's undoubtly on purpose and with a reason.

What purpose and reason? I have no idea.

On a side note: I have completed normal mode and it was still challenging and fun, so I'm sooo happy!

Stop complaining and begging for nerfs. Content shouldn't be completed by everyone day 1. I remember when v coa came out there weren't a ton of people who could actually complete it. Now that the mechanics are out and all the strategies it's a cake walk. Same with vICP and vwgt people complained to no end about the difficulty of those 2 dungeons when they first came out and now everyone can do them and they've been out for just over 2 months.

Also you are playing one of the weaker specs in there. Try out a mag nb or mag sorc and it will be far easier. Also on my Dk complete it didn't take me hours and hours and hours. It took me 2 hours and 12 deaths. So I used about 10k in pots and maybe 2k on repairs. So I definitely didn't spend 100k. I will be posting a guide for both sorc and mag Dk within the coming week to help out everyone that's having trouble.

Sneaky. They are frustrated. That's all. You are a top 5% player. And it took you 2 hours and 12 deaths. Imagine the average to below average player.

Also. Not a lot of people have every class.

It took him 2 hours and 12 deaths and God knows how many hours learning it on the PTS. I spent about 3 hours on that garbage PTS char with a weighted staff and got stuck on the 4th arena using a copied crappy build that I've never played. I don't know anyone who has breezed through MAelstrom in two hours without spending at least a good dozen hours learning the mechanics on PTS.

Exactly. Another top 5% player. Sorry. But nerf is needed. I won't even try that crap if you two struggle. It will be tough enough for me. I have volunteered to tank most of the time. This will wreck my face.

Darnathian · November 2015

maxlax28b14_ESO wrote: »

Alright guys, maybe for once, something is meant to be ridiculously hard, look at sanctum. It took people months to complete, and people already have completes... You think that's elite?? Clearing and the first day of launch, please, just go and learn. Spend the countless hours as we all do to learn adapt and have fun. if you don't like it learn to play the mmo, or adapt, or just simply leave

Fine. But the normal mode needs to drop Master Weapons at half the rate.

Darnathian · November 2015

wrathofrraath wrote: »

What exactly is the problem with having an elite level dungeon again ?

It allows only a small fraction of players access to masters weapons. That's why.

Ezareth · November 2015

Zilch wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

A guy on PTS completed the Arena on all 4 classes. ZoS has completed it on all 4 Classes as well using template chars as part of their testing. Once you learn the mechanics of the fight it's merely challenging as it should be. I'm being successful in a PvP build as a total PvE novice. If I can do it, you can too

Would you mind providing any kind of proof to this statement: "ZoS has completed it on all 4 classes....".

Did you even watch the ESO Live? The ESO Live was obviously pre-recorded in normal, because there would be no way, such incompetence would be able to do it in current veteran without being... well incompetent.

Regarding your claim that any of the 4 classes can do the arena, you do realise that there are 2 different specs for each class right? Which evidently makes 8 variables instead of the proclaimed 4.

Your signature states both magicka sorc and NB. I'm going to assume that you did this on either your magicka sorc or NB, most likely the sorc, which are probably the two classes which should have the easiest task in the arena.

Regarding challenge; there is absolutely nothing challenging about dying to RNG. Many of the stages has a lot of RNG bound to them. As long as you are persitent enough, you will gradually proceed through some of the stages, which can be very tedious due to RNG, or you can be luckier and do it on fewer tries.

This was what one of the devs told Fengrush on his stream as he played it. It was beaten internally on each class by a templar char. They aren't really interested in both builds of each class being able to do it, but from what I've seen every class has been able to do it with both builds so far.

I've done it on my Magicka sorc but I haven't beaten it yet I'm on Stage 8 after 4 hours on Live and 3 hours on PTS. I haven't tried Stage 8 yet, time limitations have stopped be from beating it more than any difficulty so far.

I agree there is a ton of RNG in this so what you have to do is focus on minimizing the RNG (plenty of ways in each encounter to do this).

Saturn · November 2015

How far have you gotten?

usmcjdking · November 2015

I'm still waiting for that tank completion...

wrathofrraath · November 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

wrathofrraath wrote: »

What exactly is the problem with having an elite level dungeon again ?

It allows only a small fraction of players access to masters weapons. That's why.

They are called Master weapons after all

Sharkano · November 2015

Make master weapons drop at a lower rate in normal, and then the top .00000000001% of the players can have their 40-hour fun with vet level for a higher % weapon drop.

AtriasNaradan · November 2015

CarbonHD wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

lol if you still think VCoA, VWGT, and VICP are still hard to do.

Especially after Monday's patch.

Wow! A god writing in the forums!!!

They are for the majority of the community. Yes, yes, most of the players need to L2p, right?

Actually, yes that's how majority of gamers are. Majority of gamers on any games do lacking big time on span of attention to detail and capability to adapt to various different situations. It's basically the same as how in a class in school you can see students with variety of natural capabilities and talents.

While not everyone are as good as Sun Tzu, there're actually people who are as good as Sun Tzu. Not many wants to admit that they're just happened to be not one of those who're as good as Sun Tzu. That's why on games such as this, the better way is always to provide for both the Sun Tzu for brain and the not as good as Sun Tzu, while giving the same reward that only difference is the drop rate and/or better RNG for the Sun Tzu brain.

Just give the exact same reward for normal that absolutely scaled to player level, which gives V16 players V16 rewards, and give better drop rate on those rewards for veteran. Other good option is to just add one or two middle difficulties that gives exactly the same rewards as veteran, but on lower drop rate and a bit worst RNG. That way, no one can justify whining.