The casual rant.

rager82b14_ESO · November 2015

Disclaimer: This is a rant. If you have trouble reading the Title. If you don't want to read a rant, Kindly leave the thread. Thanks.

As a lover of video games of all types. I must ask this...Wtf is a casual in this day in age?

I heard it all.

Someone who is bad. Ok so what happen to the term noob?

Someone who does not want to get better at the game. Wtf does that even mean? That is like me raging at my brother for not calling Nintendo power hotline for trying to figure out the best way for Kirby to optimal eat BEEP.

Someone who plays very little. What?! how does that make sense? So are you telling me a guy who spends 3 hours a day, but still does better than a guy spending 9 hours is a casual?

You know when it first started getting tossed around, I figure whatever, I am wearing Chino's Casual pants so I guess I should be one as well. After years, and years the word has been warped into ugly. Every single time I see the word get tossed around, I feel about as empty as I did when I saw Striptease and let me tell you, I wish I had a Nintendo hotline for movies at the time.

My point is this. We are gamers.

People who want to enjoy a easy ride and don't want a challenge? Cool you are a gamer. Have a cookie. I also like logging on and just chill without thinking.

People who want to be tested. Heck ya, I also get in the mood for that as well. If I am grinding for gear, I want to test that gear out on harder stuff. I want to feel powerful. Have a cookie.

And you have people like myself, Who likes all types of games, Who just wants options and has "moods" on what he wants to do. I wish I had a cookie.
Always challenging is tedious.
Always easy not so much, because If I have the option to do harder stuff I would do it.

When will it all end?

Ace_of_Destiny · November 2015

OP...

I liked your post.

"Insightful" for you.

DenMoria · November 2015

To me the difference between a "Casual" and a "Hardcore" is:

A "Casual": Someone who plays the game for kicks and fun. Not looking for every trophy or achievement. Looking for an experience, or an RPG opportunity, or a challenge. One who takes it slow and enjoys themselves

A "Hardcore": Someone who dedicates themselves to a game, hoping for ALL the achievements and trophies and expects to, not only, compete at the highest levels, but to "conquer" the game content to such an extent that they can say they have beaten it.

I agree with you that I do not really think it has to do with amount of time spent on it or even how you play the game. To me it seems more of an attitude towards your play than anything else.

As a friend of mine once said: You can dedicate all your free time to playing a game, but you can't experience real life if you do.

JMHO

Sithisvoid · November 2015

The programming society has instilled on us has taught us to separate each other into groups. Groups we can fight and argue with and call each other names. Anything to keep us from being unified and speaking with one voice.

nimander99 · November 2015

Word

SirAndy · November 2015

I used to be "hardcore" but these days i have much more fun being "casual" ...

Cously · November 2015

It's the usual problem MMOs have. They don't really have a goal and a target, they try to be everything. For instance, you go play Battlefield and you know what it is, a multiplayer first person shooter where ping and reaction is everything. You know that if you try to play Need for Speed it will be the same thing, the goal is race like a maniac and bla bla bla. People know why they are there and the game offers just that.

In MMOs we have large games that never end with several activities. It attracts a lot of people with different goals. Also the nature of the beast is character progression which needs time investment. So not only we have people looking for different activities but we got people with several amounts of times they can spend. Any company goes crazy by trying to balance it for all. It is...impossible.

The word casual is lacking. A casual in what? I know many people in the top leaderboards in trials that are casuals in PVP. So using the very word like that is indeed...dumb. If a casual is someone who doesn't devote the maximun hours to an activity, you might as well say the great hardcore PVErs are also the casual PVPers. Surely there are exceptions, but the word and the negative meaning it carries is just stupid.

Hateanthem · November 2015

I would define a "casual" player as someone who doesn't have the goal of beating endgame content. To them it just doesn't matter. They get their fun from other things. I don't mind casual players at all. I think there is a big difference between someone who plays casually, and knows that because of their playstyle, some content just might not be doable for them, and the entitled players who feels they should be able to do it all because they logged in. They enjoy having a personalized build and do not worry about min/maxing for performance, and there is nothing wrong with that.

It's the entitled players that feel they should be able to gear however they want, not care about optimizing gear and performance, and still expect to be able to achieve the endgame results that hurt the competitiveness in an MMO. I can say it really is a drag when you are doing a vet dungeons and the bosses stay alive forever because the dps is in heavy armor with a sword and shield.

Optimizing gear and performance isn't really about feeling like you are awesome, its more about helping the other three players, or 13, that's in your party. You do your role as best as possible so the other three players can accomplish their goals.

Ace_of_Destiny · November 2015

I like cheese.
But, only casually.
I would never eat it with every meal.
That could cause heart problems.

rager82b14_ESO · November 2015

Ok, the points you guys made I can understand a little. However, that line is still a very thin line.

For example, My wife she is not very good. Mind you she is much better than before as I can depend on her to know what is going on now. At the same time, I still get many hours of laughs watching her run away from guards screaming. It is just an apple!!!

She is the type of player has the will to be hardcore, but the spirit is lacking. Lets face it, her rate of self improvement in games is not very efficient.

She wants to beat the game.
She wants to get better.
She wants to do the hardest content.
She spends tons of time in the game trying to get better.

I am going to be honest guys and gals. She is both of the terms you people are using. Because she has fun failing, but still does not want to fail.

So what should I call her? Hardcore casual?

Ace_of_Destiny · November 2015

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok, the points you guys made I can understand a little. However, that line is still a very thin line.

For example, My wife she is not very good. Mind you she is much better than before as I can depend on her to know what is going on now. At the same time, I still get many hours of laughs watching her run away from guards screaming. It is just an apple!!!

She is the type of player has the will to be hardcore, but the spirit is lacking. Lets face it, her rate of self improvement in games is not very efficient.

She wants to beat the game.
She wants to get better.
She wants to do the hardest content.
She spends tons of time in the game trying to get better.

I am going to be honest guys and gals. She is both of the terms you people are using. Because she has fun failing, but still does not want to fail.

So what should I call her? Hardcore casual?

Hard Corsual.

Cously · November 2015

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok, the points you guys made I can understand a little. However, that line is still a very thin line.

For example, My wife she is not very good. Mind you she is much better than before as I can depend on her to know what is going on now. At the same time, I still get many hours of laughs watching her run away from guards screaming. It is just an apple!!!

She is the type of player has the will to be hardcore, but the spirit is lacking. Lets face it, her rate of self improvement in games is not very efficient.

She wants to beat the game.
She wants to get better.
She wants to do the hardest content.
She spends tons of time in the game trying to get better.

I am going to be honest guys and gals. She is both of the terms you people are using. Because she has fun failing, but still does not want to fail.

So what should I call her? Hardcore casual?

She's hardcore because she is trying. "She spends tons of time in the game trying to get better." says it all. The reasons why she is failing are irrelevant.

Hateanthem · November 2015

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok, the points you guys made I can understand a little. However, that line is still a very thin line.

For example, My wife she is not very good. Mind you she is much better than before as I can depend on her to know what is going on now. At the same time, I still get many hours of laughs watching her run away from guards screaming. It is just an apple!!!

She is the type of player has the will to be hardcore, but the spirit is lacking. Lets face it, her rate of self improvement in games is not very efficient.

She wants to beat the game.
She wants to get better.
She wants to do the hardest content.
She spends tons of time in the game trying to get better.

I am going to be honest guys and gals. She is both of the terms you people are using. Because she has fun failing, but still does not want to fail.

So what should I call her? Hardcore casual?

I personally don't think "casual" should equate to any skill level. I've known people who were really really good, they just didn't care about endgame content completion.

Most other MMOs refer to people in her situation as a "raider" or some other equivalent. Someone who like to pursue endgame goals...doesn't really matter if they win or not. They are participating in those activities and doing their best to accomplish the goals.

I think the term "hardcore" should never apply to a video game. A Navy Seal is hardcore, a gamer who takes it seriously just click buttons in a timely manner.

vonfelty · November 2015

Hateanthem, I think what I enjoy about ESO is that it's not about min/maxing but rather roll with what you enjoy playing.

Any class and any race can do any role (albeit some better than others).

In that regard, content should not just be for those who min/max but for those who have found their role. Yes content should be challenging, but no one should say you can't do this dungeon because you rolled an Argonian healer.

Also I do not get the point of competitive PVE. It's like beating a computer at chess. Sure it's worth of note if the CPU was hard, but the real fun is playing against real live opponents. Aka PVP.

rager82b14_ESO · November 2015

Cously wrote: »

She's hardcore because she is trying. "She spends tons of time in the game trying to get better." says it all. The reasons why she is failing are irrelevant.

"A "Casual": Someone who plays the game for kicks and fun. Not looking for every trophy or achievement. Looking for an experience, or an RPG opportunity, or a challenge. One who takes it slow and enjoys themselves"

The only part of her that is not casual is the not looking for trophy parts.

I understand your pov and don't think you are wrong as that is your two cents.. It is just, that calling someone casual and how it is used by people seems to be pointless in the context of a mmo, as the word meaning has been changed. Just like the word Nice.

newtinmpls · November 2015

Cously wrote: »

It's the usual problem MMOs have. They don't really have a goal and a target,
.

Well... stop right there. My goal in ESO is to enjoy the world with othere players.

I've heard folks sarcastically refer to "Skyrim online" and while I don't care for Skyrim ... this is pretty much Morrowind online for me. I explore, I have fun, and my husband's Breton Templar mocks the rest of the party because, after all, an eight year old reachman could do that..

ShadowMage · November 2015

Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »

I like cheese.
But, only casually.
I would never eat it with every meal.
That could cause heart problems.

But...I do eat cheese with nearly every meal... Does that make me hardcore?

On topic:
Others have said it already, but to me "casual" is someone who may or may not have a whole lot of time to play, but the time they do play is spent enjoying the game, wanting to at least experience all of the content, but not getting bent out of shape if they can't complete something designed for elite players. They're just there to enjoy the story and have fun.

Hateanthem · November 2015

vonfelty wrote: »

Hateanthem, I think what I enjoy about ESO is that it's not about min/maxing but rather roll with what you enjoy playing.

Any class and any race can do any role (albeit some better than others).

In that regard, content should not just be for those who min/max but for those who have found their role. Yes content should be challenging, but no one should say you can't do this dungeon because you rolled an Argonian healer.

Also I do not get the point of competitive PVE. It's like beating a computer at chess. Sure it's worth of note if the CPU was hard, but the real fun is playing against real live opponents. Aka PVP.

Are you sure it's not about min/maxing? For some people it is. Alot of people in both PvE and PvP find fun in min/maxing their character. Trying to figure out how to best increase your chances of success is alot of fun for alot of people.

I enjoy PvE content. I was a raider in another game for years. I enjoyed competing agaisnt other guilds to see who could defeat an encounter first. I found it really fun. A lot of people find it really fun.

ESO is really no different than any other game. In all games you can choose to min/max, or just play it however you want. When it comes to difficult content that requires certain dps amounts, mitigation amounts, or healing output, its really really rude to expect the other people in your party to pick up the slack of the one guy who feels he should be able to do it without gearing for it.

Cously · November 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

It's the usual problem MMOs have. They don't really have a goal and a target,
.

Well... stop right there. My goal in ESO is to enjoy the world with othere players.

I've heard folks sarcastically refer to "Skyrim online" and while I don't care for Skyrim ... this is pretty much Morrowind online for me. I explore, I have fun, and my husband's Breton Templar mocks the rest of the party because, after all, an eight year old reachman could do that..

I wasn't talking about player's goals, I was talking about the MMO's goals. They (MMOs) don't have one, they offer several and it's up to you the player to choose it. The problem is when you offer so much, you get a lot more to balance. And the way they are balancing one goal affects all others (PVP/PVE skills are same for instance), and that causes a lot of trouble. You get all these groups of people interested in a part of your game instead of the whole (pvp AND pve AND craft AND etc). If you do something here it affects the other group negatively most of the time and there is a lot of crying and complaining. This is a balance nightmare. You have to either have on goal or several goals and make sure to balance them within its boundaries.

Artjuh90 · November 2015

Cously wrote: »

It's the usual problem MMOs have. They don't really have a goal and a target, they try to be everything. For instance, you go play Battlefield and you know what it is, a multiplayer first person shooter where ping and reaction is everything. You know that if you try to play Need for Speed it will be the same thing, the goal is race like a maniac and bla bla bla. People know why they are there and the game offers just that.

In MMOs we have large games that never end with several activities. It attracts a lot of people with different goals. Also the nature of the beast is character progression which needs time investment. So not only we have people looking for different activities but we got people with several amounts of times they can spend. Any company goes crazy by trying to balance it for all. It is...impossible.

The word casual is lacking. A casual in what? I know many people in the top leaderboards in trials that are casuals in PVP. So using the very word like that is indeed...dumb. If a casual is someone who doesn't devote the maximun hours to an activity, you might as well say the great hardcore PVErs are also the casual PVPers. Surely there are exceptions, but the word and the negative meaning it carries is just stupid.

a casual doesnt ask for nerfs on forums ^^

Destyran · November 2015

Casual = angry birds players.

Xjcon · November 2015

Players calling others names in a game is nothing new. It puts a smile on my face when I think of the people I know IRL who are Hardcore gamers but not Professionals.

Cously · November 2015

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

She's hardcore because she is trying. "She spends tons of time in the game trying to get better." says it all. The reasons why she is failing are irrelevant.

"A "Casual": Someone who plays the game for kicks and fun. Not looking for every trophy or achievement. Looking for an experience, or an RPG opportunity, or a challenge. One who takes it slow and enjoys themselves"

The only part of her that is not casual is the not looking for trophy parts.

I understand your pov and don't think you are wrong as that is your two cents.. It is just, that calling someone casual and how it is used by people seems to be pointless in the context of a mmo, as the word meaning has been changed. Just like the word Nice.

This is the meaning of the word, anything else is rubbish. It's why I also think use the word casual like people been using is stupid. If you are not dedicated to a hobby, you are a casual.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/casual

ShadowMage · November 2015

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

It's the usual problem MMOs have. They don't really have a goal and a target, they try to be everything. For instance, you go play Battlefield and you know what it is, a multiplayer first person shooter where ping and reaction is everything. You know that if you try to play Need for Speed it will be the same thing, the goal is race like a maniac and bla bla bla. People know why they are there and the game offers just that.

In MMOs we have large games that never end with several activities. It attracts a lot of people with different goals. Also the nature of the beast is character progression which needs time investment. So not only we have people looking for different activities but we got people with several amounts of times they can spend. Any company goes crazy by trying to balance it for all. It is...impossible.

The word casual is lacking. A casual in what? I know many people in the top leaderboards in trials that are casuals in PVP. So using the very word like that is indeed...dumb. If a casual is someone who doesn't devote the maximun hours to an activity, you might as well say the great hardcore PVErs are also the casual PVPers. Surely there are exceptions, but the word and the negative meaning it carries is just stupid.

a casual doesnt ask for nerfs on forums ^^

This. This is what makes a true casual. They play the game, but don't expect it to be changed just for them. They accept the fact that it's difficult and either move on or put in the effort to get better.

FriedEggSandwich · November 2015

I consider anyone with a full-time job and/or life outside the game a casual, including myself. Even though I play every day I have to stop playing to go to sleep so I'm on form for work. I feel you can only be a hardcore player if you give as much dedication to the game as you would a full-time job. This is the way I see it and I don't mind being a casual in this respect.

Uriel_Nocturne · November 2015

I agree with the OP.

Where does this leave a Gamer like me? I'll get to that below.

Gaming is my only major hobby. I love baseball (Go Royals!!! My beloved boys-in-blue won the World Series!!!) and have since I was a young child and watch it religiously when I am able, but I've been gaming for just as long.

I really started playing MMO's ever since they were first introduced and RPG's evolved from the old BBS boards.

- I spend about 4-6 hours per night in MMO's (more often than not in ESO since its the MMO that my wife enjoys the most, and we have a blast playing together), so that's 28-42 hours per week in Tamriel. Hardcore or Casual?
- I strive for the best gear and best sets for my builds, and I have multiple builds that I enjoy playing. Hardcore or Casual?
- I take my time and fully explore an area to Quest as much as possible. There's no rush to get to "end game" content. Hardcore or Casual?
- I do fully expect to make it to "End Game" content, and I look forward to completing all of it regardless of how much time it takes my wife and I to get there. The fact that Zeni keeps releasing more content for this game, which pushes back what is "end game" content, only makes me strive forward and excites me with the promise of an ever-expanding world to explore. Hardcore or Casual?
- Leaderboards? Never cared a single bit for them, though the wife and I are attempting to get every single achievement we can in the game, neither of us care about fapping to see our name on a digital list. Hardcore or Casual?
- Solo'ing World Bosses? I do it daily because I like the challenge. Hardcore or Casual?
- Solo'ing Delves? I do that daily as well because I still like the challenge. Hardcore or Casual?
- Solo'ing Dungeons? Another daily task that I greatly enjoy. Hardcore or Casual?
- Solo'ing Group Dungeons? Not a chance, though the wife and I have become the Dynamic Duo and can usually take them down by ourselves without the need for outside assistance. Hardcore or Casual?
- Many nights the wife and I just wander off into the wild to farm crafting mats and to have fun looking for Quests and Treasure Chests that we might have missed before. Hardcore or Casual?
- Often I go back and re-fight World Bosses, Delve Bosses, etc., just to get better with whatever class I'm using at the time, and to test out a new Equipment Set that I've just created. Hardcore or Casual?
- Speed-runs of various Vet-leveled content? Not often, but every so often I try or the wife and I try just to see what kind of time we can make in clearing a Delve/Dungeon/Task or Quest. Hardcore or Casual?
- I have a Gamer Tag (GT), it's Vampire Nox. However; it is not xXx360NoSc0pezZzVag1nAd3str0y3rxXx. Hardcore or Casual?

So, this is how I play my MMO's. As I said, I play ESO more than any other MMO at the moment, but I follow this same mind-set when I'm in RIFT, LotRO, or GW2.

Does this make me a "Hardcore"? A "Casual"?

I'll tell you what it makes me. It reaffirms that I am, at my very heart of hearts, a Gamer. The wife and I both are Gamers. We have been for over thirty (30) years of Gaming for each of us, and we will be Gamers until we're too feeble to hold up a controller.

That's all we need. That's all we desire.

All the other labels/derogatory comments that we read on Gaming Forums across the internet mean nothing to us. Even when it's shouted at us with spite and vitriol in-game, the nasty labels mean nothing.

We are Gamers. I am a Gamer.

That is all that matters.

vonfelty · November 2015

Hateanthem wrote: »

vonfelty wrote: »

Hateanthem, I think what I enjoy about ESO is that it's not about min/maxing but rather roll with what you enjoy playing.

Any class and any race can do any role (albeit some better than others).

In that regard, content should not just be for those who min/max but for those who have found their role. Yes content should be challenging, but no one should say you can't do this dungeon because you rolled an Argonian healer.

Also I do not get the point of competitive PVE. It's like beating a computer at chess. Sure it's worth of note if the CPU was hard, but the real fun is playing against real live opponents. Aka PVP.

Are you sure it's not about min/maxing? For some people it is. Alot of people in both PvE and PvP find fun in min/maxing their character. Trying to figure out how to best increase your chances of success is alot of fun for alot of people.

I enjoy PvE content. I was a raider in another game for years. I enjoyed competing agaisnt other guilds to see who could defeat an encounter first. I found it really fun. A lot of people find it really fun.

ESO is really no different than any other game. In all games you can choose to min/max, or just play it however you want. When it comes to difficult content that requires certain dps amounts, mitigation amounts, or healing output, its really really rude to expect the other people in your party to pick up the slack of the one guy who feels he should be able to do it without gearing for it.

I am talking about how ESO let's you wear heavy armor even if you are a magika user. And be a night blade healer if you want.

These aren't min maxing, but rather playing based off other reasons like race and look preference.

One thing I hated about WoW was people complained if your dps meter wasn't exorbitantly high. For me dungeoning is a social experience. Wipes included. If you are going to pub it with random strangers then do not expect them to min max. You may have to carry them, but if you wanted perfect people you should have started an elite guild with gear requirements.

Junglejim82 · November 2015

Casual is the term given in mmos to anyone that has a job or family commitments that stops them playing in. 12 hour shifts like leets .

Noobs are always noobs but in mmos this year's noob is (potentially) next year's pro time catches up fast .

Scrubs/ scrublords are noobs who employ underhand / over powered / cheap known exploits etc with success against casuals but not so much the leets

The leets eat sleep and breathe the game and put the hours in to be the best . Generally filling a gap in their lives with game time.

Been all these things in Mmos over the years . Leet was hella fun no doubt but had to give it up

Scrub was a fun part of the learning process

Casual is where I currently reside along with probably 85% of gamers

Hateanthem · November 2015

vonfelty wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

vonfelty wrote: »

Hateanthem, I think what I enjoy about ESO is that it's not about min/maxing but rather roll with what you enjoy playing.

Any class and any race can do any role (albeit some better than others).

In that regard, content should not just be for those who min/max but for those who have found their role. Yes content should be challenging, but no one should say you can't do this dungeon because you rolled an Argonian healer.

Also I do not get the point of competitive PVE. It's like beating a computer at chess. Sure it's worth of note if the CPU was hard, but the real fun is playing against real live opponents. Aka PVP.

Are you sure it's not about min/maxing? For some people it is. Alot of people in both PvE and PvP find fun in min/maxing their character. Trying to figure out how to best increase your chances of success is alot of fun for alot of people.

I enjoy PvE content. I was a raider in another game for years. I enjoyed competing agaisnt other guilds to see who could defeat an encounter first. I found it really fun. A lot of people find it really fun.

ESO is really no different than any other game. In all games you can choose to min/max, or just play it however you want. When it comes to difficult content that requires certain dps amounts, mitigation amounts, or healing output, its really really rude to expect the other people in your party to pick up the slack of the one guy who feels he should be able to do it without gearing for it.

I am talking about how ESO let's you wear heavy armor even if you are a magika user. And be a night blade healer if you want.

These aren't min maxing, but rather playing based off other reasons like race and look preference.

One thing I hated about WoW was people complained if your dps meter wasn't exorbitantly high. For me dungeoning is a social experience. Wipes included. If you are going to pub it with random strangers then do not expect them to min max. You may have to carry them, but if you wanted perfect people you should have started an elite guild with gear requirements.

Or.... Pugs who want to be picked up for gold runs should come prepared and not expect to be carried. It really does work both ways. I played WoW for years, and the only times I saw dps be an actual problem was during a raid environment. I'm sorry but if killing the boss requires 5 sps to all pull 20k to beat the enrage, and one dps is consistently pulling 13k, its not the people saying something who are being jerks, it's the dps who expects everyone to give him a pass out of the kindness of their hearts. The group is already giving you a chance, help them a bit and at least try or ask for guidance if you don't meet the numbers required.

Personal build choices doesn't negate what I said about playstyle and min/maxing. I understand your point of view,I just don't agree with it.

firstdecan · November 2015

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Casual is the term given in mmos to anyone that has a job or family commitments that stops them playing in. 12 hour shifts like leets .

Noobs are always noobs but in mmos this year's noob is (potentially) next year's pro time catches up fast .

Scrubs/ scrublords are noobs who employ underhand / over powered / cheap known exploits etc with success against casuals but not so much the leets

The leets eat sleep and breathe the game and put the hours in to be the best . Generally filling a gap in their lives with game time.

Been all these things in Mmos over the years . Leet was hella fun no doubt but had to give it up

Scrub was a fun part of the learning process

Casual is where I currently reside along with probably 85% of gamers

I like this post, this is a good post.

Here's what I don't understand about this concept of "leet":

You have generally described "leets" as 'The leets eat sleep and breathe the game and put the hours in to be the best' and people who put in 12 hour shifts.

If someone were to do that in a casino, in a heroin den, in a bar, at raves \ clubs, at the horse racetrack, or pretty much anywhere else the behavior would be considered problematic. Even people who work 12 hours a day, every day, are usually considered to have problematic behavior. Why is this not the case with gamers?

KewaG · November 2015

DenMoria wrote: »

To me the difference between a "Casual" and a "Hardcore" is:

A "Casual": Someone who plays the game for kicks and fun. Not looking for every trophy or achievement. Looking for an experience, or an RPG opportunity, or a challenge. One who takes it slow and enjoys themselves

A "Hardcore": Someone who dedicates themselves to a game, hoping for ALL the achievements and trophies and expects to, not only, compete at the highest levels, but to "conquer" the game content to such an extent that they can say they have beaten it.

I agree with you that I do not really think it has to do with amount of time spent on it or even how you play the game. To me it seems more of an attitude towards your play than anything else.

As a friend of mine once said: You can dedicate all your free time to playing a game, but you can't experience real life if you do.

JMHO

Just wanted to point out that I am one of those guys that wants to get every single achievement and complete all of the content but I don't consider myself Hardcore. I only play between 9-12 hours a week, and have absolutely no time to obtain the achievements but I'm working my way toward them, bit by bit.

I don't consider myself hardcore because, to me, Hardcores are the people who dedicate all of their free time to obtaining everything a game has to offer and they need it before everyone else. They play "All-In" balls to the wall every time they log in and nothing but the best is accepted.

Me on the other hand, I want to experience everything but I don't feel the need to obtain anything before anyone else. I want to get better at the game but it's not gonna kill me if somebody is better then me. I like to play but to me it's just a fun getaway from the daily mundane activities of the working class, not a lifestyle.

I like to play all sorts of video games. Am I Hardcore? Maybe. Am I Casual? Definately. Is it bad to be either? No way. I'm a gamer and that's the only label I feel comfortable using to describe myself. Why people feel the need to separate ourselves from others is beyond me. As somebody who comes from a minority group I can tell you that it doesn't feel good to be categorized for any reason.