anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

Honestly, Ibomez is actually one of the easiest boss in ICP :
You don't need to have a good dps, you don't need gear, all you need is reactivity. If you destroy all the zombies, no additional atros. If you miss a few, you will have one, maybe 2 atros after the first scripted one. If the healer keep on debuffing it with a puddle, even a DPS around 12-15k in single target can do it easily.
If you have more, someone doesn't know how to kill the zombies with the puddles. No gear or CP is goign to help you with that.

12-15K DPS isn't "good DPS" ??? And you can reach it without gear ? LOL, just LOL.

12k DPS in single target is not good DPS. Maybe that's why you're having issues if you think 5k is enough.

FYI, good DDs are usually around 20-25k in single target. I've seen a few people hitting 30k+.

kuscoe wrote: »

12-15k is average dps I wasnt even doing that last patch I hit 30k with this patch and have a video demonstrating it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAckYKCSVnU

apologies if youve seen the video I like to pimp it alot we are a developing guild so we want to get our name out there ;p

also what he ment by "you dont need gear" is you dont need Best in Slot gear

You still wrote "you don't need gear". Nevermind.

When will people understand that just because THEY can achieve something, it doesn't make all other people "average", and it doesn't mean things are "easy" ???
"average" means : what the entire community of players can achieve ON AVERAGE. And I can tell you, it's NOWHERE near 15K DPS at the moment.
Sometimes people get confused with "median", which means "the number where 50% of the entire community stands below and 50% stand higher". And that isn't anywhere near 15K either.

You're doing good : be proud of it. Advertise your guild, that's fine. But be aware that you're very good, you're at the top. In your position you cannot judge of what's easy or not for the real average player anymore.

Usara wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

Honestly, Ibomez is actually one of the easiest boss in ICP :
You don't need to have a good dps, you don't need gear, all you need is reactivity. If you destroy all the zombies, no additional atros. If you miss a few, you will have one, maybe 2 atros after the first scripted one. If the healer keep on debuffing it with a puddle, even a DPS around 12-15k in single target can do it easily.
If you have more, someone doesn't know how to kill the zombies with the puddles. No gear or CP is goign to help you with that.

12-15K DPS isn't "good DPS" ??? And you can reach it without gear ? LOL, just LOL.

12k DPS in single target is not good DPS. Maybe that's why you're having issues if you think 5k is enough.

FYI, good DDs are usually around 20-25k in single target. I've seen a few people hitting 30k+.

I quote myself because maybe I need to clarify a few things :

Yes, I do think ultimates are part of a rotation for DDs. SO yes, that's with the ultimate.

Yes, I do think DPS should keep their pots AND ulti for the atros. You won't have a good DPS with no ressource and no ulti.

Yes, I do think healers aren't here to just heal anymore, and have to do more : like boosting their comrades DPS (combat prayer, aggressive horn) and help them sustain their ressources (mystic orb, spear shards, repentance)

Yes, I do think healers should ALWAYS debuff the atros. Maybe you don't realize how huge the debuff is and how violently it boost the DPS... I don't know the actual number to be honest. My impression is it gives something like a VERY major Breach and Very major Fracture debuff ^^
But you will have something like +20% DPS on the atros if it's debuffed.

Its refreshing to see the good players in the forums

I really really hate it when a healer thinks all they need to do is spam breathe, I think to myself... How is that even fun?

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

kuscoe wrote: »

12-15k is average dps I wasnt even doing that last patch I hit 30k with this patch and have a video demonstrating it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAckYKCSVnU

apologies if youve seen the video I like to pimp it alot we are a developing guild so we want to get our name out there ;p

also what he ment by "you dont need gear" is you dont need Best in Slot gear

You still wrote "you don't need gear". Nevermind.

When will people understand that just because THEY can achieve something, it doesn't make all other people "average", and it doesn't mean things are "easy" ???
"average" means : what the entire community of players can achieve ON AVERAGE. And I can tell you, it's NOWHERE near 15K DPS at the moment.
Sometimes people get confused with "median", which means "the number where 50% of the entire community stands below and 50% stand higher". And that isn't anywhere near 15K either.

You're doing good : be proud of it. Advertise your guild, that's fine. But be aware that you're very good, you're at the top. In your position you cannot judge of what's easy or not for the real average player anymore.

Ok so I will say this it is not hard at all to achieve this sort of dps all it takes is

1. A want to progress (get better + develop)
2. A need for effiecieny (by being better it save time and thus enables you to do other things you like such as pvp or trading if thats your thing)
3. Thought (This being the biggest one)

Thought is so god damn important most of the playerbase do not think about what skills they use they just have people tell them the good moprhs and roll with it they throw on the sypher build and run around cyrodil

I swear to you if you understand you class and what it is capable of simply through reading and comprehending passives and ability synergy you will do better dps and be a better player in general

And I can judge whats easy for the normal player because I know what they do... they dont think... they slap on some armor and skills and play

This is an MMO you are supposed to BUILD and DEVELOP you character *** its an MMORPG isnt that what RPG is developing your character if more people understood this there would be less nerfs and less complaining overall

kuscoe wrote: »

Ok so I will say this it is not hard at all to achieve this sort of dps all it takes is

1. A want to progress (get better + develop)
2. A need for effiecieny (by being better it save time and thus enables you to do other things you like such as pvp or trading if thats your thing)
3. Thought (This being the biggest one)

Thought is so god damn important most of the playerbase do not think about what skills they use they just have people tell them the good moprhs and roll with it they throw on the sypher build and run around cyrodil

I swear to you if you understand you class and what it is capable of simply through reading and comprehending passives and ability synergy you will do better dps and be a better player in general

And I can judge whats easy for the normal player because I know what they do... they dont think... they slap on some armor and skills and play

This is an MMO you are supposed to BUILD and DEVELOP you character *** its an MMORPG isnt that what RPG is developing your character if more people understood this there would be less nerfs and less complaining overall

See ? You wrote "all it takes is..." and then explain the million reasons why people don't/won't do "what it takes". For whatever reason (maybe because it's supposed to be a game and not a chore ?).

Do you want to change people ? Good luck... People are a reality, they build an "average" that is a reality and not your subjective perception, and they are what they are. If only 5% (or whatever low percentage) can complete the dungeons it means the dungeon is hard, not easy, unlike you pretend.

All your argumentation can be summarized by "IF people would bother getting good", problem is, IF wishes were horses, beggars would ride. Reality is, people are not as good as you for plenty of reasons, and the dungeon is hard if not too hard for the majority of them, and that a fact you cannot change with all wishes and if's in the world.

Don't get annoyed by cries for nerfs : ZOS nerfs (or not) according to completion statistics which is easily available to them, NOT on cries for nerfs on this forum.

kuscoe wrote: »

Its a chore to think? *** hell humanity is worse off then I expected

when I play a game I want to be good at it not terrible

if I think a little I can spend my time more efficiently and do even more fun things this game has to offer

That's YOU. Not "everybody", not "the majority", and that's a fact.
Ever wished everyone would be "like you" ? Yeah, me too... but that's not how it works. Unfortunately for us ! (but probably better for the world, diversity is good).

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

12k DPS in single target is not good DPS. Maybe that's why you're having issues if you think 5k is enough.

DPS being "good" or "very good" or "average" has NOTHING to do with it being "enough" or not for a particular dungeon.

15K being required for that dungeon doesn't mean it's "average", it means the dungeon is difficult AND a DPS race.

I'm not having issues with this, BUT I'm having issues with people pretending that something difficult is "easy" when it's not and that something is "average" when it's not.

Well, if I remember well, my exact words were : Ibomez is actually "one the easiest of ICP" ^^
Because like I said, the difficulty is managing the atros. The atros spawn if zombies reach the central pond. They won't if they are killed. They are killed by a mechaninc that don't need gear or CP
That's is why, imho, it's the easiest one.
I honestly think the first boss (the Enemy) is much harder than Ibomez. Once you get used to the... let's say the rythm of the fight, the puddle spawn, the zombie spawn, the boss destroying the puddles... Ibomez can really be a joke.

Considering WGT, since it's the actual topic (sorry for the digression), I remember my guild hit a wall on the PTS when we tried the atro.
We didn't know how to deal with it in vet. When IC went live, we spend something like 5 hours before killing it.
Even now, it can take a few minutes to kill it, sometime it takes 1 hour.
High DPS really helps on this fight because, as usual in this game, half the mechanics of a boss can be ignored if you have the dps.

When we know we have the DPS (ultis and agressive horn ready), we ignore the portals at the end and burn it before the Ogrim spawn.

When we don't, we do the boss... "as intended" meaning dealing with all the portals.
I've never used the pet tanking so I really don't know how it works... I can't really help with that.

But for the rest what we do is :
- Turning the tank into a "DPS". If he has CP in Magician, turns in a "magicka dd". If he was in Warlord, in a "stamina dd"
Even my stamina tank has everything in Magician so I always turn in full light armor or close. I use the old set of another character... a v14 one. You don't really care for high dps, all you need is having enough DPS to OS the portal (or at least one skill + LA). If I remember well, the portal have something like 6k HP.
I find that force pulse + light attack is more than enough. I've seen tanks using the charge of the 2H, other using a bow but I don't really know their spec. The tanks I usually run with are NBs so they spamm Funnel Health on the portals.

- Using lots of regen with the healer. As a healer, I use Rapid Regeneration, Quick siphon, Purifying light... it's enough healing (if people can avoid the geysers, and they should) to keep them alive while I deal with the portals. I used to do a Vampire Bane + LA with my resto staff when I wasn't using a Fire staff. Now I that have one, I'm using Force Pulse + LA.

-When 2 people have the portals, announce which side of the room you are taking care of (yeah, I agree this is a really hard fight for beginners who don't have a vocal) so you don't waste time targeting the same portal while another is being left unchecked in your back.

-DON'T RUN AROUND with the atro UNLESS it's blue ^^ You won't take a lot of damage honestly, and if the DD can focus on it because it's not moving, it will go down really faster.

-Don't stay on the pedestal when you are waiting for the thingie-thing to open : geysers will spawn at your feet while you take it, and it can be very tricky to stay alive then if your healer is busy on the portals ^^ Wait next to it, and when it opens, go take it. I think this will be addressed in today's patch btw.

-We begin the "aggro rotation" with the healer and tank, so the DD - who are better dps than the first two (at least they should xD) can burn the atro as much as they can. From what I've seen, there is a really higher chance that the first people who take the aggro-pinion will have the first portal spawn. That might just be RNG, or it may not be

Usara wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

Honestly, Ibomez is actually one of the easiest boss in ICP :
You don't need to have a good dps, you don't need gear, all you need is reactivity. If you destroy all the zombies, no additional atros. If you miss a few, you will have one, maybe 2 atros after the first scripted one. If the healer keep on debuffing it with a puddle, even a DPS around 12-15k in single target can do it easily.
If you have more, someone doesn't know how to kill the zombies with the puddles. No gear or CP is goign to help you with that.

12-15K DPS isn't "good DPS" ??? And you can reach it without gear ? LOL, just LOL.

12k DPS in single target is not good DPS. Maybe that's why you're having issues if you think 5k is enough.

FYI, good DDs are usually around 20-25k in single target. I've seen a few people hitting 30k+.

12K single target dps is already good dps. Most people dont have much CP like us, meantime with 12k sustained dps (i'm sayin for it both dd's at dungeon) all bosses can be beat easy in WGT and ICP veteran if all party members knows their roles and what to do.

sickboy2808 wrote: »

I cant even get to try these dungs because i cant find a big PVE Guild in EU DC Faction. I even posted in these forums looking for guild for which i got 1 response and i went and joined there website but didnt even get a reply. This game is dying big time but i wont leave just yet cause im looking forward to the new SOLO areana. Pretty sad for a MMO. Anyways if there are PVE Guild leaders reading this please let me know

This game is dying cause you cant find a guild?

Elvenpath wrote: »

12K single target dps is already good dps. Most people dont have much CP like us, meantime with 12k sustained dps (i'm sayin for it both dd's at dungeon) all bosses can be beat easy in WGT and ICP veteran if all party members nows their roles and what to do.

I agree for the CP part. But still, I think that 12k is not enough.
Now, I totally agree it depends on the target ! What I found is a good way to get an idea is the deadroths : because they are more than one (so you can get a general idea when comparing what was the DPS on each) - because yeah, I agree sh*t happens
Lag, messing with your rotation, wrong ulti, "where are my pots" ??? is a good one too , "oopsie Daedoth turned around and killed me"... lots of variable, but at the end of the dungeons you have an idea where you stand on a single target : meaning a target you just have to hit without moving or avoinding anything, just hitting it until it dies.
If you have 12k on all the deadroths... hmmm... Even with low CP, that's not good imho. I mean, as a tank, I'm likely to die of the dot because you didn't kill the Deadroths fast enough.
But then, it's not impossible to do it. I can use an ultimates myself (negate to clean me of the dot a sorc tank, or magma shell as a dk tank) but I can't rely on my ulti on each daedroths

Now, when I said 12k DPS, I was talking specifically of the atros on Ibomez, as you can see here (quoting myself again, so you can see for yourself

Usara wrote: »

Honestly, Ibomez is actually one of the easiest boss in ICP :
You don't need to have a good dps, you don't need gear, all you need is reactivity. If you destroy all the zombies, no additional atros. If you miss a few, you will have one, maybe 2 atros after the first scripted one. If the healer keep on debuffing it with a puddle, even a DPS around 12-15k in single target can do it easily.
If you have more, someone doesn't know how to kill the zombies with the puddles. No gear or CP is goign to help you with that.

Then, on a slightly different topic, but not completely unrelated...

If you don't have the gear/CP/time to invest in it... then maybe the content is not for you ? I'm not saying it as a taunt or as a elistist way of saying L2P or anything...

I've been playing MMOs for more than 10 years now. I - well, I don't as I'm writing now - but yes, I used to have a full time job for 95% of those 10 years ^^
On other games, I knew there was content I would never have access to, or at least not when it was the current high end content. I don't want to name those games, because this is not a comparison between them and ESO in any way.
Just a... let's say a "state of mind" of the gaming community back then.
But yeah, there was content that most players would never experience because well, you needed a group with high requirements in terms of time, gold for gear/consummables, and - well again - time.

That's what you need to have a competitive character in MMO : you need to take time to know what build/gear your class/spec should use, test it in the field, get used to it, and then you need to learn the fight mechanics, test them, master them.... of course you can't do that if you don't have a lot time.

And there's no shame to it. I mean, I reroll a lot and spend close to all of my gaming time when not leveling characters in dungeons. Dailies or IC.
So yeah, I have CP thanks to my pathologic-rerolling-case and experience because well, I basically have my home in one of the cell of ICP (it's actually quite comfy in there, I assure you x))
But on the other hand, I never have time to go in PvP, so I don't know a thing about it. My main - a healer - is stuck with 292 skill points because my pvp rank with her is 8.
I don't have time to finish the achievements I really wanted : collecting trophies, fishing and black market mogul.

That's enough with my life. My point is : there's a lot to do in this game but high-end vet dungeons. Nobody is going to blame you if you decide "well, this is too much of a hassle, I'd rather have fun elsewhere".
High-end content doesn't mean natural-progression-you're-a-worthless-noob-if-you-don't-go-there.

Yes there is "nice" gear, but this is already the high end content, you don't need it if you don't go there regularly.

I think it's normal that not everyone can do every content in the game.
I am happy with IC and I think - yes I am speaking for myself - that if the team do its job properly, they are easy.

But then, put me in pvp and I'll die like a noob where people will be laughing at me saying L2P.

Not every content fits everyone gameplay/gametime.

humpalicous wrote: »

alfoner wrote: »

So this is made to be so hard dungeon that its impossible to complete it with casual players. you ahve to brake the game mechanics at the boss for able to kill them. ''like sorceres pet tanking Pinaccle fire boss the whole fight'' also finding the group for this is impossible cos no one whats to even try taht cos ITS IMPOSSIBLE. i ahve killed it only ones with no healm drop. our group was me with 336cp and others had more than me but why you have even someone with less cp . you are [snip]!!! TY cos making this BIS helmet farming impossible for most of the pll ^^

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Wow you're your grammar, spelling and choice of words though, I had to concentrate to even understand (you used it right here, why not over there??) your point...

That said, I do agree with you, White Gold Tower (veteran version) is very difficult and will be very hard for casual players (like myself) to complete. The dungeon, along with Imperial City Prison, requires a very coordinated group that knows each other's mechanics and abilities.

Now, this is not necessarily a bad thing as it encourages players to improve their play-styles and become better players. The content up until Imperial City has been fairly simple and definitely solo-able, with the exception of veteran dungeons and some content in Craglorn (such as Trials for instance).

So with the addition of the Imperial City and its two dungeons we have some challenging content, which I think is great, even though I haven't even attempted to complete WGT or ICP.

Cheers!

usmcjdking wrote: »

kuscoe wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

Honestly, Ibomez is actually one of the easiest boss in ICP :
You don't need to have a good dps, you don't need gear, all you need is reactivity. If you destroy all the zombies, no additional atros. If you miss a few, you will have one, maybe 2 atros after the first scripted one. If the healer keep on debuffing it with a puddle, even a DPS around 12-15k in single target can do it easily.
If you have more, someone doesn't know how to kill the zombies with the puddles. No gear or CP is goign to help you with that.

12-15K DPS isn't "good DPS" ??? And you can reach it without gear ? LOL, just LOL.

12-15k is average dps I wasnt even doing that last patch I hit 30k with this patch and have a video demonstrating it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAckYKCSVnU

apologies if youve seen the video I like to pimp it alot we are a developing guild so we want to get our name out there ;p

also what he ment by "you dont need gear" is you dont need Best in Slot gear

This is a perfect example.

Some people have refined their build so much and learned to boost their damage with the LMB that ESO isn't much more than Guitar Hero Online.

The rest of us old people who can barely hit one button at a time (and it's usually the wrong one) can't just stand in the same spot and play Guitar Hero Online.

You're STILL whining? Have you at least tried to do it again with some of the tips people have been giving you, like how not to get the healer in the cage?

And as others said, you don't need 20k+ DPS to do this dungeon. You simply don't. But you also can't expect to defeat the bosses by looking at them funny. If your problem is that you're hitting wrong buttons, practice more. Know what skills you're using at each time and why.

No Nicky the game is dying. I remember running zones and seeing lots of Guild adverts looking for members. Espec in Crag but nowadays when i call out looking i dont even get a response. You can deny it all you like but it defo has dropped players numbers

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

You're STILL whining?

Could you stop calling people whiners ? He's just one of the many, many players for which these dungeons are too difficult. These people do not need advice and despise, they need to be listened to and understood.

Whether or not ZOS should nerf these dungeons to allow access for a wider population, or not nerf them to allow the top 5-10% to feel good about beating challenging content is open to debate. Insulting people, bringing them down and bombing them with "advice" aren't options here.

NB : actually the dungeons ARE being nerfed, as of today. Some top players are complaining loudly about it. Now who are the whiners ?

The whiners are the people who wanted the change obviously. It wont make much difference it will just change from OHMAGERD NERF WGT!!! To OHMAGERD NERF VET MAELSTROM!!! Untill you ask about builds rotations and tactics your still gonna be a bad player and struggle.

Im on ps4 and many guild mates and friends have been beating wgt since the last nerf. Get the mechanics down and crank out the dps.