Cloaked and Hidden attacks and other sneaking questions

romanr · November 2015

Hey guys and devs.
Do I miss something? When I attack while I'm hidden/stealthed using the Ctrl button (default buttond for hiding), the result of such attack is just like 10 times to normal attack, but if I'm a NB and attack after the shadow ability, it does not scale the same way, gives me somewhat same may be a bit more damage as normal attack...

Is it right behavior or a bug? If it is right, then why? Whats the difference between hidden and cloaked person in game? They are both invisible..

Another question about NB's shadow ability is why everyone sees me (both pve and pvp) if I press the Ctrl button after I cloak and run away fast, even If I hide behind some object (huge rock, mountain etc). Is shadow cloak is totally broken thing for NB and using it makes no sense, beside removing one dot effect OR guaranteeing next attack critical chance? Kind of wrong thing.

As for me, the normal behavior should be like this:

* same affect to weapon damage as in stealth mode (I would accept both: nerf the current attack from stealth/hidden mode or UP the attack from shadow mode)
* If I did shadow and run away far enough or behind some object and used the stealth/hide button during the shadow mode I should stay invisible. Atm I have to wait to exit the combat mode to hide again. Its WRONG.

So ATM the shadow line of NB is broken and does not make any sense to play in this line.

ostrapz · November 2015

Pve and pvp work diffrently. Some pve monsters are immune to shadow cloack, some bosses definitely are. Should give a similar weapon damage in buff and gives some resistance with passives. In pvp cloak helps u escape, and when used before an attack you can get damage boost. And to go back into stealth it takes about 10 to 15 seconds out of combat

GreenSoup2HoT · November 2015

Shadow cloak will only give you a 10% bonus in combat.

Stealth modifier is a one time thing until your combat status is reset (not detected). The multiplier I believe also works differently depending on where you hit them (back or front).

I dunno the numbers for the stealth multiplier though

romanr · November 2015

Cloak does not allow anyone to escape from battle in pve nor pvp ! It is easily broken with any type of attack (random light attack or aoe, it have been discussed here a lot of times already). Also there are pots and skills allowing to see stealth ppl. I could be only agree with AOE or dot breaking shadow, nothing more. Also shadow must take me out of combat immediately, its the point of quick shadow. 10 to 15 sec is enough to find me again. Under current circumstances cloak should be switchable and not draining any resource during it is on, only during the switching it on. NBs are really OP, but not with class skills, but under some combination of not the ways NB should be played. It should be fixed. I do not have any problems to deal damage and kill ppl and monsters, really (except when I have to fight non-veteran with CPs, I call them pedobears, who fight in non-veteran pvp zone). But NB is not a class, that should be played like I WILL SMASH YOU IN THE FACE style and current shadow skills does not allow me to play the real rogue style, like in any other game (I used to play rogue like a glass cannon on under 50% enemies, which can survive few seconds after opening thanx to agility skills and fast moves and if not dead, just hide, run away and restore). In this game I jump on such enemy, trying to hit and getting in some way disabled after first attack and can't escape anymore. And I don't even really want to speak about NB's damage in PVP with DW hitting from behind.
At this moment, to play true rogue, one have to use assassination and shadow skill lines AND FREAKING TWO-HAND weapon, because it gives just a HUGE burst damage.. A rogue with a freaking huge weapon - I'm not surprised, why I'm detected LOL.

There should be a way to play with only 1 dagger (another weapon line) for NB or other class...

Basically I don't need any weapon skills to have on my panel to play useless, but true NB, because any of class line skills do not do enough damage. Surprise attack is not really a surprise if it hits only for some kind of 1800 dmg in it best times, while WB just smashes ppl and hitting them back with 2400 to 2800. And lets not talk about 2H finisher vs class line finisher... If class line finisher starts from 25% it should do more damage. There are lots of situations in PVP when I have to hit 3 to 5 times an enemy with less then 25% of HP. Where is the point to try to play the shadow style character ?

And medium armor line, its just ridiculous: it gives no armor at all, OK, its medium.. but it gives nothing passive to avoid attacks, only 1 active skill, that does not help enough and just takes place on status bar (btw NB has own skill to evade, which is pretty same useless). The only way to avoid attacks is just scaring everyone around, but IT IS THE SORC'S WAY TO SURVIVE!!!

Summary:

I'm completely disappointed in NB as a class, as it is just wrong or just broken or perhaps it should be renamed to something like Fighter or any other name, that does not have words Night, Shadow etc in its name.

PS
Won't buy any DLC nor Subscription until playable class found. At this moment even sorcs are best in HEAVY armor, rofl.

Great job done. Seems like have to go back to GW2.

ShadowDisciple · November 2015

romanr wrote: »

PS
Won't buy any DLC nor Subscription until playable class found. At this moment even sorcs are best in HEAVY armor, rofl.

Great job done. Seems like have to go back to GW2.

Bye

romanr · November 2015

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Bye

Awesome! I hope devs attitude is the same and all NB's will quit the game

lolo_01b16_ESO · November 2015

When I start playing a game I usually try to understand the game mechanics before I complain and if I don't get them I'd ask other players nicely instead of threatening to leave the game

But have fun in GW2

romanr · November 2015

I'm not threatening anyone. Who cares of one guy from hundred thousands who will leave?

There is nothing to ask about. NB is completely broken as a shadow class and you can't fix it with any mechanics or so on. You can just play not a shadow class, being NB, that's it. Like a workaround instead of true patch.

Stigant · November 2015

romanr wrote: »

Hey guys and devs.
Do I miss something? When I attack while I'm hidden/stealthed using the Ctrl button (default buttond for hiding), the result of such attack is just like 10 times to normal attack, but if I'm a NB and attack after the shadow ability, it does not scale the same way, gives me somewhat same may be a bit more damage as normal attack...

Is it right behavior or a bug? If it is right, then why? Whats the difference between hidden and cloaked person in game? They are both invisible..

Another question about NB's shadow ability is why everyone sees me (both pve and pvp) if I press the Ctrl button after I cloak and run away fast, even If I hide behind some object (huge rock, mountain etc). Is shadow cloak is totally broken thing for NB and using it makes no sense, beside removing one dot effect OR guaranteeing next attack critical chance? Kind of wrong thing.

As for me, the normal behavior should be like this:

* same affect to weapon damage as in stealth mode (I would accept both: nerf the current attack from stealth/hidden mode or UP the attack from shadow mode)
* If I did shadow and run away far enough or behind some object and used the stealth/hide button during the shadow mode I should stay invisible. Atm I have to wait to exit the combat mode to hide again. Its WRONG.

So ATM the shadow line of NB is broken and does not make any sense to play in this line.

Dude .. if the cloak worked the way you suggest, we'd be all playing invisible wars online, hit and cloak noone kills anyone, trolling NBs

romanr wrote: »

Cloak does not allow anyone to escape from battle in pve nor pvp ! It is easily broken with any type of attack (random light attack or aoe, it have been discussed here a lot of times already). Also there are pots and skills allowing to see stealth ppl. I could be only agree with AOE or dot breaking shadow, nothing more. Also shadow must take me out of combat immediately, its the point of quick shadow. 10 to 15 sec is enough to find me again. Under current circumstances cloak should be switchable and not draining any resource during it is on, only during the switching it on. NBs are really OP, but not with class skills, but under some combination of not the ways NB should be played. It should be fixed. I do not have any problems to deal damage and kill ppl and monsters, really (except when I have to fight non-veteran with CPs, I call them pedobears, who fight in non-veteran pvp zone). But NB is not a class, that should be played like I WILL SMASH YOU IN THE FACE style and current shadow skills does not allow me to play the real rogue style, like in any other game (I used to play rogue like a glass cannon on under 50% enemies, which can survive few seconds after opening thanx to agility skills and fast moves and if not dead, just hide, run away and restore). In this game I jump on such enemy, trying to hit and getting in some way disabled after first attack and can't escape anymore. And I don't even really want to speak about NB's damage in PVP with DW hitting from behind.
At this moment, to play true rogue, one have to use assassination and shadow skill lines AND FREAKING TWO-HAND weapon, because it gives just a HUGE burst damage.. A rogue with a freaking huge weapon - I'm not surprised, why I'm detected LOL.

There should be a way to play with only 1 dagger (another weapon line) for NB or other class...

Basically I don't need any weapon skills to have on my panel to play useless, but true NB, because any of class line skills do not do enough damage. Surprise attack is not really a surprise if it hits only for some kind of 1800 dmg in it best times, while WB just smashes ppl and hitting them back with 2400 to 2800. And lets not talk about 2H finisher vs class line finisher... If class line finisher starts from 25% it should do more damage. There are lots of situations in PVP when I have to hit 3 to 5 times an enemy with less then 25% of HP. Where is the point to try to play the shadow style character ?

And medium armor line, its just ridiculous: it gives no armor at all, OK, its medium.. but it gives nothing passive to avoid attacks, only 1 active skill, that does not help enough and just takes place on status bar (btw NB has own skill to evade, which is pretty same useless). The only way to avoid attacks is just scaring everyone around, but IT IS THE SORC'S WAY TO SURVIVE!!!

Summary:

I'm completely disappointed in NB as a class, as it is just wrong or just broken or perhaps it should be renamed to something like Fighter or any other name, that does not have words Night, Shadow etc in its name.

PS
Won't buy any DLC nor Subscription until playable class found. At this moment even sorcs are best in HEAVY armor, rofl.

Great job done. Seems like have to go back to GW2.

1. CLASS in this game doesn't set you on certain ROLE ... even thought certain ROLES benefit from certain class skills and passives better than from others

2. where do you PvP, if you dont mind me asking? if you r refering to non-vet "battle-leveled" let me assure you it will change while you hit VR16 ... NB is the most bursty "rogue-like" sneaky class in game, with the best escape/reset combat utilities in game

you might give it more than 3-4 months and get a little more info and experience about the game mechanics before QQing and judging

willymchilybily · November 2015

if you are struggling to use cloak to escape in PvP you are likely using it wrong. improving this mechanic would make an already complained about skill more powerful, so is not going to be a popular opinion on these forums.

you sound like a stamina user, Nb is the one class with its own class based damage buff(power extraction), class based gap closer(ambush), class based stamina damage spam (surprise attack), and class based execute (assassins blade). allowing it to use any weapons it wants once you unlock a self heal (vigor). So i dont know why you are using a 2H if you dont want to.

You have a class based speed buff too, and if you are a vampire or use the craftable set "night silence" you get enough stealth movement speed to really make good use of cloak in the 2.9 seconds its active. but if you attack an enemy after using it or try to sprint the effect ends and you will not be invisible. if you want to go from invisible to stealth you have to crouch once you use cloak and breaking line of sight with the enemy helps.

practice more with it, or go play GW2, but dont hold your breath for a buff. not going to happen.

romanr · November 2015

Stigant wrote: »

Dude .. if the cloak worked the way you suggest, we'd be all playing invisible wars online, hit and cloak noone kills anyone, trolling NBs

Doesn't happen like this in other games

Stigant wrote: »

1. CLASS in this game doesn't set you on certain ROLE ... even thought certain ROLES benefit from certain class skills and passives better than from others

I know that. Its the TES strategy all the times. I enjoy it, but I do complain, that I can't create my favorite role using a class, that it should be able to create with. Or there is an option to create a shadow cannon from DK class?

Stigant wrote: »

2. where do you PvP, if you dont mind me asking? if you r refering to non-vet "battle-leveled" let me assure you it will change while you hit VR16 ... NB is the most bursty "rogue-like" sneaky class in game, with the best escape/reset combat utilities in game

Then maybe there should be 2 options here?:
1. disable pvp until level cap
2. or do not allow characters with CP enter non-vet pvp zone?

willymchilybily wrote: »

if you are struggling to use cloak to escape in PvP you are likely using it wrong. improving this mechanic would make an already complained about skill more powerful, so is not going to be a popular opinion on these forums.

Its not I'm using it wrong, its up to it working wrong.

willymchilybily wrote: »

you sound like a stamina user, Nb is the one class with its own class based damage buff(power extraction), class based gap closer(ambush), class based stamina damage spam (surprise attack), and class based execute (assassins blade). allowing it to use any weapons it wants once you unlock a self heal (vigor). So i dont know why you are using a 2H if you dont want to.

Because if I use 2H I do a lot much more burst damage after I open. Ambush, then WB, then WB again for more damage, once more and just hold the execution button until some1 dies, as it works from 50% health. It is even NOT fun. Especially if WB costs only 150 stamina more and deals almost 1500 dmg more. Yes it is not instant cast, but hell, it still does its job too well.

willymchilybily wrote: »

practice more with it, or go play GW2, but dont hold your breath for a buff. not going to happen

I do not want the buff! I wrote that stealth and shadowed attacks should end up with same damage EVEN if stealth attacks have to be nerfed. I don't care of buff that will allow NBs to attack with same damage from cloak as from stealth. I want it be just the same. If I'm invisible, than who cares am I stealth or cloaked? Result is same: I'm not visible. Period.

And if I'm invisible I must be taken out of combat at the same second, so I just run away an hit the stealth button and I'm not visible.

That's just simply logical, damn it