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Idea to Improve Risk Vs Reward System of Imperial City.
AFrostWolf
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So as of right now, Imperial City puts all the work of generating new stones onto the PvE player. Imperial city was supposed to be a PvP update, but that failed. Very few people go into IC to PvP, the few that do are only there to either Gank/Grief, escape zergs, duel or to find small scale PvP. Most of the time IC is very dead.
I think that if we are going to encourage more people to participate in IC then we need to get rid of griefing. I'm all in favor of the 80/10 loss penalty, I don't want to change that. What I want to do is make it fair. I propose that you only gain 80% of the defeated players stones equal to the amount of stones that you were risking yourself.
Example 1: Player A risking 0, Player B risking 1000 stones.
Outcome: Player A kills Player B and gets 0 stones. Player B loses 0 stones.
Example 2: Player A risking 100 stones, Player B risking 1000 stones.
Outcome: Player A gets 80 stones for killing player B. Player B loses 80 stones.
Example 3: Player A and Player B are risking 1000 stones each.
Outcome: Player A kills Player B and gains 800 stones. Player B loses 800 stones.
In our current system you risk NOTHING and have everything to gain. Worse case you give the other player a bit of (Useless) AP.
In the new system you risk Something and have an EQUAL chance to gain something.
If we make the system a bit more fair then there is a chance that PvE'er might come to IC. I have killed a few gankers myself while grinding out stones/Exp only to get nothing out of it. They are free to keep coming back till I'm dead and they gain 80% of my hard work and just run away with it. The current mentality if you run into a ganker in IC is to run away. You're not going to get anything out of it. If we change it so that there is equal risk, then maybe the PvE players will band together in small groups and try to fight gankers knowing that they can earn something for it.
Edited by AFrostWolf on October 31, 2015 10:57AM I think that if we are going to encourage more people to participate in IC then we need to get rid of griefing. I'm all in favor of the 80/10 loss penalty, I don't want to change that. What I want to do is make it fair. I propose that you only gain 80% of the defeated players stones equal to the amount of stones that you were risking yourself.
Example 1: Player A risking 0, Player B risking 1000 stones.
Outcome: Player A kills Player B and gets 0 stones. Player B loses 0 stones.
Example 2: Player A risking 100 stones, Player B risking 1000 stones.
Outcome: Player A gets 80 stones for killing player B. Player B loses 80 stones.
Example 3: Player A and Player B are risking 1000 stones each.
Outcome: Player A kills Player B and gains 800 stones. Player B loses 800 stones.
In our current system you risk NOTHING and have everything to gain. Worse case you give the other player a bit of (Useless) AP.
In the new system you risk Something and have an EQUAL chance to gain something.
If we make the system a bit more fair then there is a chance that PvE'er might come to IC. I have killed a few gankers myself while grinding out stones/Exp only to get nothing out of it. They are free to keep coming back till I'm dead and they gain 80% of my hard work and just run away with it. The current mentality if you run into a ganker in IC is to run away. You're not going to get anything out of it. If we change it so that there is equal risk, then maybe the PvE players will band together in small groups and try to fight gankers knowing that they can earn something for it.
Idea to Improve Risk Vs Reward System of Imperial City. 93 votes
Yes, Sounds Good
66%
62 votes
No, Sounds Bad
19%
18 votes
IDK/IDC
13%
13 votes
6
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Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Currently, ganking is riskless and rewards are high. I dont think this was the best way to go. They shouldnt have never let us bank our stones, instead, every time you die, you lose stones.
Dont get me wrong though, I think ganking is riskless and rewards are high is damn fun concept, but ESO is wrong game for it.Edited by Sausage on October 31, 2015 11:23AM0 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodI like the idea, but it probably is too little too late.
I hate the IC ganking, this is sociopath gameplay by design.
As soon as we can collect V15+ mats in Orisinium, I will never visit the IC again.6 -
AFrostWolf✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodCurrently, ganking is riskless and rewards are high. I dont think this was the best way to go. They shouldnt have never let us bank our stones, instead, every time you die, you lose stones.
Dont get me wrong though, I think ganking is riskless and rewards are high is damn fun concept, but ESO is wrong game for it.
I used to play another game as a ganker/lurer. In that game you lost all your items on death. No matter what you always risked something, even if it wasn't a lot there was always some risk. The risk vs Reward mechanic is completely broken in IC.
Edited by AFrostWolf on October 31, 2015 11:35AM0 -
AFrostWolf✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodBalticBlues wrote: »I like the idea, but it probably is too little too late.
I hate the IC ganking, this is sociopath gameplay by design.
As soon as we can collect V15+ mats in Orisinium, I will never visit the IC again.
Exactly what I was hoping wouldn't be the case. I think you're right that it might be too late. Everyone is already done with IC and ready to move on to something else. If anything, I think because of the risk vs reward that IC should hopefully generate Mats quicker to keep it relevant.0 -
AFrostWolf✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodShameless Self bump. Just spent the last 15 mins defending myself from gankers who risked nothing. Finally died and lost all my stones.0
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AFrostWolf✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodHelgi_Skotina wrote: »Gankers dont care about stones we just want to kill
Then you won't mind if we don't lose our stuff to you. Gankers shouldn't gain anything for putting in no risk.
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Kuroinu✭✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodWhat you have said, is how the Tel Var stone system should work. Imperial City may still need improvements in other areas, but this would be a great "Quality of PvP Life" improvement.
The idea to have the 100%/80% loss was, I feel, a spur-of-the-moment decision that we didn't really understand because we were all hyped up for the first ever ESO DLC release and we didn't have a clue what it would really play out like.
PTS and Live Servers are very different in terms of how much a player cares what happens to them and their characters. Players may say that they enjoy a thing on the PTS, but when it comes to doing it on the "real" live server, it's a different experience altogether because you care more.
Saying that, PTS feedback as I've sort of pointed out here, is slightly flawed in that players are generally in a different state of mind whilst playing on the PTS. This may only be specific to PVP on the PTS.0 -
Kuroinu✭✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodThe third option for your poll wasn't really needed, but it doesn't matter I just found it weird. If people "don't know" or "don't care" then they don't really need to vote do they? It's like "This is the option for those that don't want to read and try to understand the issue, but would like to click and select something." lol.1
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Helgi_Skotina✭✭✭IDK/IDCAFrostWolf wrote: »Helgi_Skotina wrote: »Gankers dont care about stones we just want to kill
Then you won't mind if we don't lose our stuff to you. Gankers shouldn't gain anything for putting in no risk.
If i win nothing - OK, i have no need for it. But PvEers have to be losing everything when ganked. why should the game be easy?0 -
Helgi_Skotina✭✭✭IDK/IDCI would prefer - a player loses 80% stones to nobody, 20% to the ganker and 10% carried gold to nobody if killed.0
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AFrostWolf✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodHelgi_Skotina wrote: »AFrostWolf wrote: »Helgi_Skotina wrote: »Gankers dont care about stones we just want to kill
Then you won't mind if we don't lose our stuff to you. Gankers shouldn't gain anything for putting in no risk.
If i win nothing - OK, i have no need for it. But PvEers have to be losing everything when ganked. why should the game be easy?
Why? Why does the PvE'er have to be the one risking everything. Why does the game have to be so easy for you? You aren't risking anything and earning a whole lot. If you were risking then everything is fine.
Edited by AFrostWolf on November 1, 2015 6:12AM1 -
AFrostWolf✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodHelgi_Skotina wrote: »I would prefer - a player loses 80% stones to nobody, 20% to the ganker and 10% carried gold to nobody if killed.
This wouldn't work, as the whole point of the QOL change is to encourage players to come to IC. You don't lose anything is other PvE parts of the game, IC shouldn't be any different. The 10% is fine.0 -
Helgi_Skotina✭✭✭IDK/IDCAFrostWolf wrote: »
Why? Why does the PvE'er have to be the one risking everything. Why does the game have to be so easy for you? You aren't risking anything and earning a whole lot. If you were risking then everything is fine.
For me it is not easy in any case - im trying ti kill players, not dumb mobs. Im earning my fun, and i will kill players even if i get 0 AP, 0 XP and 0 TV for it.
OK, any suggestions what a PvP player can risk when ganking?Edited by Helgi_Skotina on November 1, 2015 6:22AM0 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭IDK/IDCOnce you get the IC gear, you really start not to care about TS that much or at all. Pretty much the same way you start not to care about AP unless you're grinding for rank+skills, obviously.0 -
AFrostWolf✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodHelgi_Skotina wrote: »AFrostWolf wrote: »
Why? Why does the PvE'er have to be the one risking everything. Why does the game have to be so easy for you? You aren't risking anything and earning a whole lot. If you were risking then everything is fine.
For me it is not easy in any case - im trying ti kill players, not dumb mobs. Im earning my fun, and i will kill players even if i get 0 AP, 0 XP and 0 TV for it.
OK, any suggestions what a PvP player can risk when ganking?
To keep it relevant to IC, they can risk the TV stones. If they don't want to risk TV stones and gank then that's okay. You still get to PvP but you don't cause anyone to lose anything and get nothing as a result. If you Gank as a form of PvP for the sole purpose of obtaining stones, then you are a cancer on IC and are a direct cause for the low population, among other things.
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Helgi_Skotina✭✭✭IDK/IDCAFrostWolf wrote: »Helgi_Skotina wrote: »
To keep it relevant to IC, they can risk the TV stones. If they don't want to risk TV stones and gank then that's okay. You still get to PvP but you don't cause anyone to lose anything and get nothing as a result. If you Gank as a form of PvP for the sole purpose of obtaining stones, then you are a cancer on IC and are a direct cause for the low population, among other things.
Well if you kill me you also gat my stones. It is already in the game.0 -
Kuroinu✭✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodHelgi_Skotina wrote: »AFrostWolf wrote: »
Why? Why does the PvE'er have to be the one risking everything. Why does the game have to be so easy for you? You aren't risking anything and earning a whole lot. If you were risking then everything is fine.
For me it is not easy in any case - im trying ti kill players, not dumb mobs. Im earning my fun, and i will kill players even if i get 0 AP, 0 XP and 0 TV for it.
OK, any suggestions what a PvP player can risk when ganking?
Risk play time, you die, you get forced logged out for an hour. Lol.2 -
AFrostWolf✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodHelgi_Skotina wrote: »AFrostWolf wrote: »Helgi_Skotina wrote: »
To keep it relevant to IC, they can risk the TV stones. If they don't want to risk TV stones and gank then that's okay. You still get to PvP but you don't cause anyone to lose anything and get nothing as a result. If you Gank as a form of PvP for the sole purpose of obtaining stones, then you are a cancer on IC and are a direct cause for the low population, among other things.
Well if you kill me you also gat my stones. It is already in the game.
Yes, Except 99% of gankers (Statistic made up based on personal experience) have 0 stones on them. They just go around killing other players for their stones. This QOL change makes you have to risk stones in order to get stones. That way when you die the person you were ganking actually gets something instead of nothing.1 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭AFrostWolf wrote: »Currently, ganking is riskless and rewards are high. I dont think this was the best way to go. They shouldnt have never let us bank our stones, instead, every time you die, you lose stones.
Dont get me wrong though, I think ganking is riskless and rewards are high is damn fun concept, but ESO is wrong game for it.
I used to play another game as a ganker/lurer. In that game you lost all your items on death. No matter what you always risked something, even if it wasn't a lot there was always some risk. The risk vs Reward mechanic is completely broken in IC.
You mean Darkfall? All top players had bank full of goodies, when they died, they just geared-up and went back to killing. I wouldnt say that was exactly good choice either, it eliminates the meaning of full loot almost entirely. I think good game is when everyone has everything to lose, like EVE, but even there, top players has extra ships. Everyone loses when they die, its fair for everyone.Edited by Sausage on November 1, 2015 6:48AM0 -
Helgi_Skotina✭✭✭IDK/IDC
ОК, but for all. And i will kill PvE players more often then ill die.Riko_Futatabi wrote: »Helgi_Skotina wrote: »AFrostWolf wrote: »
Why? Why does the PvE'er have to be the one risking everything. Why does the game have to be so easy for you? You aren't risking anything and earning a whole lot. If you were risking then everything is fine.
For me it is not easy in any case - im trying ti kill players, not dumb mobs. Im earning my fun, and i will kill players even if i get 0 AP, 0 XP and 0 TV for it.
OK, any suggestions what a PvP player can risk when ganking?
Risk play time, you die, you get forced logged out for an hour. Lol.
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Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodRiko_Futatabi wrote: »Helgi_Skotina wrote: »AFrostWolf wrote: »
Why? Why does the PvE'er have to be the one risking everything. Why does the game have to be so easy for you? You aren't risking anything and earning a whole lot. If you were risking then everything is fine.
For me it is not easy in any case - im trying ti kill players, not dumb mobs. Im earning my fun, and i will kill players even if i get 0 AP, 0 XP and 0 TV for it.
OK, any suggestions what a PvP player can risk when ganking?
Risk play time, you die, you get forced logged out for an hour. Lol.
I like this one. :}0 -
AFrostWolf✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds Good
You mean Darkfall? All top players had bank full of goodies, when they died, they just geared-up and went back to killing. I wouldnt say that was exactly good choice either, it eliminates the meaning of full loot almost entirely.
No, Runescape. Same thing happened there as well. Every PvP'er would make money in their offtime and then go Clan PK'ing. Really good players could make their living off PvP if they were good enough. Almost every PK'er had a huge bank worth of different types of gear sets so they could regear and return to the fighting ASAP. It was 100% items lost on death so you did risk an entire set which could range to being cheap all the way to their entire bank.
Edited by AFrostWolf on November 1, 2015 6:51AM1 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭AFrostWolf wrote: »
Make it so Stones can go to minus side too, like you have -6070 Stones. Im not fan of the current system, this kind of system just promotes suicide gankers.Edited by Sausage on November 1, 2015 6:57AM0 -
AFrostWolf✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodAFrostWolf wrote: »
Make it so Stones can go to minus side too, like you have -6070 Stones. Im not fan of the current system, this kind of system just promotes suicide gankers.
Plausible but 80% of 0 is still 0. You would have to set an arbitrary number of stones to lose every death which could still have no meaning unless it was account wide. You could easily only gank on one character and never on another.
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Scyantific✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, Sounds BadThis is a dumb idea because if you want your stones back then guess what you're not getting jack sh** because hey, you don't have enough stones to recoup your losses.
Unless you want to code in a mini time window in which you can get your stones back, but then again good luck because you probably got ganked by a nightblade and they've already completely disappeared from your radar.1 -
AFrostWolf✭✭✭✭Yes, Sounds GoodScyantific wrote: »This is a dumb idea because if you want your stones back then guess what you're not getting jack sh** because hey, you don't have enough stones to recoup your losses.
Unless you want to code in a mini time window in which you can get your stones back, but then again good luck because you probably got ganked by a nightblade and they've already completely disappeared from your radar.
Well not many gankers stick around to give you a chance to get your stuff back. Especially after they get a nice haul while risking nothing in the process. I'd rather lose the chance at revenge than have to be annoyed by gankers who just keep trying till they win, all the while they have 0 risk or penalty.
Coding in a time window could work, or people could start grouping up a bit so that as long as one person in the group doesn't die then you get some of your stuff back. Of course knowing the ESO community that means it will start off as small scale fun and end in giant zerg balls.
Edited by AFrostWolf on November 1, 2015 7:08AM0