Khajiit!

Depending on how you play your stamina nb, Bosmer would be another option.

I think I will go with Redguard as I have an Imperial stam DK already. (And I'm an Imperial in RL already)
As long as I'm not gimping myself like I did when I made my Argonian alchemist NB thinking the synergy would be awesome with potions. It didn't seem to do much for me. But that toon looks very cool.

Asmael wrote: »

That's a tough choice... Here to help you decide:

Imperial
....

Redguard
....

Khajit
....

Bosmer
.....

I'd hesitate between Redguard and Khajit, depends really on what you want to build. If your end-game build will be stacking stamina like crazy, you're probably better off with Redguard, otherwise, Khajit.

EDIT: Added bosmer

Orcs needed to add too, they are now also good stamina race

- Increases Max Health and Stamina by 6%
- Increases Health Recovery by 30%
- Reduces Sprint cost by 12% and increases Sprint speed by 10%
- Increases your damage with melee weapon attacks by 4%

Both are very good, and you will do well with either. Imperial pulls slightly ahead IMO because of the HP buff. You still need to have about 20k HP buffed, and Imperial can get that without any HP enchants. Leaving you open to do full stamina and Robust enchants on your gear, adding to their already 12% stamina buff, which increases your DPS more.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Nord

Excellent health recovery, max health, and damage mitigation

Only focusing on damage output will make you an easy kill.

Imperial has more than double the HP buff than Nord. And 4% damage mitigation is so puny that it's irrelevant.

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

Both are very good, and you will do well with either. Imperial pulls slightly ahead IMO because of the HP buff. You still need to have about 20k HP buffed, and Imperial can get that without any HP enchants. Leaving you open to do full stamina and Robust enchants on your gear, adding to their already 12% stamina buff, which increases your DPS more.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Nord

Excellent health recovery, max health, and damage mitigation

Only focusing on damage output will make you an easy kill.

Imperial has more than double the HP buff than Nord. And 4% damage mitigation is so puny that it's irrelevant.

Your numbers are wrong. Nords have +9% Health and +6% damage reduction. This is a far cry from irrelevant. They also have +30% health recovery which is absolutely better than Red Diamond, and is useful no matter what spec you play. The Nord has more raw mitigation than an Imperial, but the Imperial has the choice to use stamina to mitigate (not a real prospect in the current version of the game) and it does more damage due to a higher inherent stamina.

Edit: It does more Stamina-based damage due to higher inherent stamina.

To answer the OP's question, I think you need to be more clear about what you want.

If you want to be raw melee dps, then I'd say go Orc or Redguard. Khajiit if you pump your crits.
Tanky weapon dps: Go Imperial or Maybe Nord, Argonian, Dunmer, whatever.
If you want to be an Archer, I recommend you make a Bosmer

Blud wrote: »

Thank you everyone. I appreciate all the input. It doesn't make my decision any easier, though there are a lot of persuasive arguments for Imperial. Perhaps, irrationally, it will come down to how cool the character looks. And for this character, I want to go raw melee dd.

@dodgehopper_ESO I'm glad to hear that there is hope for an Argonian (alchemist) NB. I have that one as magicka at the moment.

My v16 Nightblade is an Argonian (and my alchemist as well). He also dons the sword and shield pretty regularly, and I've flipflopped between magica and stamina on him. Argonian is great and pretty well adaptable. The racial stats obviously lean more toward the tanking profession. I'm guessing our style of argonian falls under that 'shellback' distinction. I think a pvp nightblade stamina build can do fine though. Everyone has to build for mitigation in pvp, the argonian just needs to put a little less than a more aggressive leaning race, and needs to spec more aggressively to be equal to the likes of a Redguard or Imperial or Orc or Khajiit. I do think Argonian is good but still needs some passive reconsiderations.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

Both are very good, and you will do well with either. Imperial pulls slightly ahead IMO because of the HP buff. You still need to have about 20k HP buffed, and Imperial can get that without any HP enchants. Leaving you open to do full stamina and Robust enchants on your gear, adding to their already 12% stamina buff, which increases your DPS more.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Nord

Excellent health recovery, max health, and damage mitigation

Only focusing on damage output will make you an easy kill.

Imperial has more than double the HP buff than Nord. And 4% damage mitigation is so puny that it's irrelevant.

If you're clueless about a race; then don't talk about them.

Nords have 9% max health buff, 6% damage mitigation from all sources, and 30% health recovery.

Also Redguard and Imperials have a 10% max stamina buff; not 12%

Im not clueless, Im just not at home, and confused the 10% stam buff with the 12% HP buff. And I ams till correct that Imperial is better for stamina DPS.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

Both are very good, and you will do well with either. Imperial pulls slightly ahead IMO because of the HP buff. You still need to have about 20k HP buffed, and Imperial can get that without any HP enchants. Leaving you open to do full stamina and Robust enchants on your gear, adding to their already 12% stamina buff, which increases your DPS more.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Nord

Excellent health recovery, max health, and damage mitigation

Only focusing on damage output will make you an easy kill.

Imperial has more than double the HP buff than Nord. And 4% damage mitigation is so puny that it's irrelevant.

If you're clueless about a race; then don't talk about them.

Nords have 9% max health buff, 6% damage mitigation from all sources, and 30% health recovery.

Also Redguard and Imperials have a 10% max stamina buff; not 12%

Im not clueless, Im just not at home, and confused the 10% stam buff with the 12% HP buff. And I ams till correct that Imperial is better for stamina DPS.

Sure if made a character and you were focused on PvE DPS, I can see how imperial would be better considering you have a tank for agro and a healer for keeping your health up. However if you're PvP focussed; like the OP is, Nords are better.

The reason? In Cyrodiil you take 50% less damage than enemy players, Nords take 56% less damage because of that passive. Healing is also reduced by 50%, but health regeneration isn't. With a 30% increase in health regeneration, my health recovery is more powerful than resolving vigor.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I think a stronger offense with a bigger HP is better than more health recovery. And I still say 6% damage mitigation makes little difference.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

Both are very good, and you will do well with either. Imperial pulls slightly ahead IMO because of the HP buff. You still need to have about 20k HP buffed, and Imperial can get that without any HP enchants. Leaving you open to do full stamina and Robust enchants on your gear, adding to their already 12% stamina buff, which increases your DPS more.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Nord

Excellent health recovery, max health, and damage mitigation

Only focusing on damage output will make you an easy kill.

Imperial has more than double the HP buff than Nord. And 4% damage mitigation is so puny that it's irrelevant.

If you're clueless about a race; then don't talk about them.

Nords have 9% max health buff, 6% damage mitigation from all sources, and 30% health recovery.

Also Redguard and Imperials have a 10% max stamina buff; not 12%

Im not clueless, Im just not at home, and confused the 10% stam buff with the 12% HP buff. And I ams till correct that Imperial is better for stamina DPS.

Sure if made a character and you were focused on PvE DPS, I can see how imperial would be better considering you have a tank for agro and a healer for keeping your health up. However if you're PvP focussed; like the OP is, Nords are better.

The reason? In Cyrodiil you take 50% less damage than enemy players, Nords take 56% less damage because of that passive. Healing is also reduced by 50%, but health regeneration isn't. With a 30% increase in health regeneration, my health recovery is more powerful than resolving vigor.

Strider_Roshin is making my point for me. Nords absolutely have more raw mitigation. Their health is marginally less than any imperial (by 3%) but they make up for it with a whopping 6% damage reduction from all sources. That pushes them over the mitigation an Imperial is capable of. When blocking was actually viable, the Imperial DID have an advantage in holding his shield up longer (10% more stamina) but with the changes to blocking rules I don't really see it. Finally you compare the last trait Imperials have, Red Diamond, to Robust and it is clear that the Nord has advantage when it comes to health return. Robust is always on, Red Diamond is a 10% chance on a melee proc. Robust will always outperform red diamond.

The way I see it, the Imperial is a race that's the in-between of Nord and Redguard. Imperial and Nord are both fantastic races to play any class and spec purely because their attributes are so diverse in function. If you're going Redguard Melee DPS though I think that is superior to an Imperial. I like both but lets face it Redguards can be very aggressive with power usage, and an Imperial has to spam more light/heavy attacks to get his red diamond to proc. They both fight similarly but racial design favors the Imperial in his sword and board.

I also think Orc is a fair competitor with Redguard for Stamina dps. The Orc is 4% less stamina but makes up for it with superior mobility and 4% more weapon damage (which actually slightly pushes their burst damage over Redguard). The difference between Orc and Redguard is the ability to sustain your attack. The Orc is also more tanky than the Redguard, so do with that what you will. In my own personal opinion, Orc is actually better than Imperial now, if you are stamina-based despite having less 10% less attribute points. The reason is that Robust is significantly better than Red Diamond, and the sprint cost reduction and movement speed are not to be scoffed. The quicker movement speeds mean less down time in pve and pvp. In pvp it means being able to dip in and out of conflict more successfully and with less associated cost. Orc is awesome, and I'm almost tempted to convert my main imperial character into an Orc with the race change. They end up being more or less as Tanky as an Imperial with a way more aggressive build, which is wonderful for pvp. (Not to mention the original Dodge Hopper from city of heroes was a superhero Troll guy, so its not that big of a stretch).

Here's my current estimation of Races in order of Tankiness: Nord (1), Imperial (2), Orc (2 or 3), Argonian (3), Redguard (4), Breton and Dunmer (5 or 6), Bosmer (7)

Here's my current estimation of Races in order of Melee Stamina DPS: Redguard and Orc (1), Imperial (2), Khajiit (3 - although this one can be #1or 2 if you can pump up your crits high enough), Bosmer (4), Dunmer (4 or 5)

Here's my estimation of Races in order of Bow/Ranged Stamina DPS: Bosmer and Orc (1), Imperial (2), Redguard (3), Dunmer (4), Khajiit (5)

Notice I'm not putting in races that have nothing to directly offer these builds. This doesn't mean those other races have nothing to offer, but their racials do not effect these roles directly. I'm also focusing on races with something to offer a Stamina build. In the case of the Breton, they get valued in large part because of their Spell Resistance for tanking purposes and the higher magica magnitude and cost reductions help the magic dumps a tank uses. Dunmer also gets mentioned because of its 6% Stamina bonus and its 9% magica/Fire resistance is nothing to scoff particularly for tanking, but for any role. You always want some magicka dump, and a Dunmer can do this more effectively. As you can see on the balance of things I rate Orc pretty highly, in large part because they are so versatile whether you want to go Stamina Dps or Tank roles. The Orc underperforms if you want to build more toward magicka, and this is where the Nord or Imperial have more universal traits.

In terms of magical performance I'll just add my preferences: Altmer, Breton, Dunmer. Imperial/Nord can do well purely because they both have good jack of all trade attributes, and to a lesser extent so does Orc. In the case of Imperial and Orc though they both have wasted traits in the magic role (Red Diamond, and Weapon Damage respectively).

Nice discussion.

What I'm glad to see is that people think that several races are viable choices.

Bosmer!! Fits all roles for a StamNB (tank due to massive regen,Dps due to stealthy passive) for End game and PvP.

TheSpin wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

Both are very good, and you will do well with either. Imperial pulls slightly ahead IMO because of the HP buff. You still need to have about 20k HP buffed, and Imperial can get that without any HP enchants. Leaving you open to do full stamina and Robust enchants on your gear, adding to their already 12% stamina buff, which increases your DPS more.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Nord

Excellent health recovery, max health, and damage mitigation

Only focusing on damage output will make you an easy kill.

Imperial has more than double the HP buff than Nord. And 4% damage mitigation is so puny that it's irrelevant.

If you're clueless about a race; then don't talk about them.

Nords have 9% max health buff, 6% damage mitigation from all sources, and 30% health recovery.

Also Redguard and Imperials have a 10% max stamina buff; not 12%

Im not clueless, Im just not at home, and confused the 10% stam buff with the 12% HP buff. And I ams till correct that Imperial is better for stamina DPS.

Sure if made a character and you were focused on PvE DPS, I can see how imperial would be better considering you have a tank for agro and a healer for keeping your health up. However if you're PvP focussed; like the OP is, Nords are better.

The reason? In Cyrodiil you take 50% less damage than enemy players, Nords take 56% less damage because of that passive. Healing is also reduced by 50%, but health regeneration isn't. With a 30% increase in health regeneration, my health recovery is more powerful than resolving vigor.

I hope this response isn't considered 'necroing' an old thread, but I was thinking of the race I want for my NB and I am very curious to know if these calculations are correct.

My main question (math story problem haha!)
If you take 50% less damage in Cyrodil...

An attack would normally do 100 damage, therefore in Cyrodil it would do 50 damage
As a Nord, would the reduction be calculated as a 6% reduction in the 100 damage that would be done outside of cyrodil (44 damage), or would the 6% reduction be calculated against to the 50 damage you actually take (47 damage)?

Has anyone crunched these numbers?

I haven't tested it, but ZOS claimed they made flat damage reduction multiplicative long ago.

PS: Indeed, since the solution to not necroing a thread is simply opening a new one, just do that next time.