Give me reasons, why you want veteran ranks gone...

Reverb · October 2015

I don't care if vet ranks are removed or not. If removed, I (like others) have serious concerns about how it will be implemented and handled by Zeni.

Shadesofkin · October 2015

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

tengri wrote: »

Actually... I dont want VR ranks gone; two new ranks with each DLC including new mats and gear and everything... hell yeah, I actually could support that.

In fact, it is the champion system I'd rather want gone... the grind on that front is pure hell and some arbitrary caps and "catching up" mechanics wont do squad in the long run because eventually they will have to raise it.
Again. And again.
Compared to that the VR rank grinding is harmless and there is always a clear goal (which ofc gets lifted up from time to time).
But the CP system... that's the true evil from the darkest depths of oblivion.

Ok, lets do some math here...

It costs 850k experience points to reach each new Veteran Rank after the first.

That is the equivalents of 2 and 1/4th Champion Points.

Now with the catch up mechanic in place and a seasonal increase the process will be easier and quicker than ever before.

An increase of two more veteran ranks each DLC would required 1.7 million experience points for each person...this would be the equivalent of 4.5 champion points...which would be *easier to get*.

Veteran Ranks are not the solution, Champion Points and gear progression are. It's literally so obvious that Cadwell knows what's up.

I'm sure it takes Cadwell's particular brand of logic to see it, because your final paragraph is at odds with the rest.

1.7 million XP for 2 additional VR - hardly onerous, particularly as you will gain 4 CP at the same time - and most people are grinding CP in any case! You get your VR for free just by playing the game and grinding those CP!

Champion points and gear progression? Not sure how that works - you can be VR16 with way less than 200 CP. If you scale gear off CP then either current VR16s with low CP will lose out, or gear progression will have to be linked to low levels of CP.

Besides, high levels of CP already give an unbalanced advantage - that's why they have to bring in a cap! Why multiply that advantage by linking gear (and food? and potions?) to CP? Particularly when we have a cap of 501, but many people will already have more, so when the cap is raised they will immediately reach the new cap, further extending the separation between players that ZoS wants to restrict.

Also, removal of VR, particularly if coupled with "seasonal" gear, will be the death of crafting.

I'm not linking cp and gear, I'm allowing that gear improvements will be a method of improving overall power level. A crafter makes higher quality gear for one player and lower quality gear for another player and the lower quality gear is less powerful in overall stats than what the higher quality gear is and thus the higher quality gear player is capable of doing more.

phillyproduct · October 2015

kyrowski wrote: »

I don't see the point of removing them to be honest. I had a character at Vr2 before the recent XP change and it's now half way through Vr14 and I still have most of the final gold zone to go. The old grind no longer exists.

What will you do with a level 50 cap? Hit cap in a few weeks, grind out end game armour and..... grind out 0.1% increments in CP until you hit the level cap on that, again quite quickly with the catch up mechanism?

What would be the point of new DLC? You're not going to improve your character. New armour at the same with similar rehashed stats?

I guess the only way to keep interest would be to gate equipment on CP numbers and how is that different to Vr?

So in a month you went from v2-v14 and you think thats reasonably? The amount of exp need from 1-50 youve already gotten 5times over.

Why do you want a longer grind? Their will be no grinding off end game gear cause all off a sudden more sets are actually viable. Also u mentioned new dlc, if we stayed v16 Aren't we getting new content with the same stats? Most mmo's have level increases once a year but smaller updates in between no 1 ever says how dare you not raise the level cap every update.

UrQuan · October 2015

Hope499 wrote: »

The only people that want them gone are the ADD kids who need to have all 8 characters slots filled, majority of us have a character (maybe an alt or TWO) that we spend most of our time on. Vet ranks are the only thing keeping most of us going.

Hmm, so you like to randomly insult people who enjoy different things than you. Good to know. That says a lot about you as a person.

To the OP: personally I think that vet ranks as they exist today are fine and don't need to be removed. If it was up to me the one change that would be made is that all gear sets would scale up as high as VR16 for better variety. But what do I know? Apparently I'm just an ADD kid.

Pallmor · October 2015

I never understood the problem with vet ranks. IIRC, most of the early complaints were variations on "They're too hard" or "I don't want to have to do silver and gold just to be competitive in PvP." But at this point, I'm not really sure what the problem is. Most of the people who want to be competitive in PvP have long since reached max level. So I'm not even sure why people still complain about them. Maybe it's out of habit. Maybe they hate leveling alts.

Personally, I was always fine with the VR system. I think if they removed it now it would only cause big headaches for all of us who worked through to get those levels. I worked hard to get my VR rank. Why would I want to be knocked down to the same level as some newb who just finished his main storyline quest?

If you want to complain, complain about the Champion Point system. Now THERE'S a hot mess.

Shadesofkin · October 2015

@I_killed_Vivec I do appreciate you asking though, and my cadwell comment was unfair, I shouldn't slide so close to throwing insults around.

As far as the champion system and unbalanced power levels, it is my conclusion that the power balance will return to a more manageable level with the removal of the VR system (indeed the improvements from CP would be based off power levels at 50 rather than at Veteran Rank 16+).

FelixTheCatt · October 2015

I'm not understanding what removing vet levels will do for the game. Will it still take the same amount of xp to level? If so what's the difference? Guess I just never got it in the 1st place.

SleepyTroll · October 2015

I want my 5 piece warlock with rings to be viable again. Something so rare yet so useless.

Shadesofkin · October 2015

SleepyTroll wrote: »

I want my 5 piece warlock with rings to be viable again. Something so rare yet so useless.

Sun Set, Warlock, Dreugh King, Storm Knight, Way of Air, Fire, Martial Knowledge, etc etc I mean the list is so long of gear that could be great again. It would actively create build diversity because we'd have so many great sets.

phtony06b14_ESO · October 2015

I get to play less often than a lot of people & I'm tired of constantly being at a disadvantage against them. I remember when I finally made VR 10 only to see it raised to VR12 the next day. I quit on the spot. And before you say "Champion Points", that's a whole other topic albeit with the same problem.

Also there are no fun ways to keep on leveling every time they raise the cap. It's grind, grind, grind.

Osteos · October 2015

Lylith wrote: »

Marrtha wrote: »

Well.. Uhm.. I don't want the removal of veteran ranks.

*runs off to hide*

me either. never did. <shrug>

Me either. I actually like them

Shadesofkin · October 2015

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

I get to play less often than a lot of people & I'm tired of constantly being at a disadvantage against them. I remember when I finally made VR 10 only to see it raised to VR12 the next day. I quit on the spot.

Also there is no fun ways to keep on leveling every time they raise the cap. It's grind, grind, grind.

This is the exact reason a huge chunk of my original guild dropped the game. Many of them would return if they were able to play to 50 and join me in Trials and Group Dungeons again without having to wait til they were VR14+.

Erdmanski · October 2015

You can get a easily get a character up to VR16 and fully geared in 2-4 weeks depending on your hours/day. I don't know what MMO's people are playing, but that doesn't seem like much of a grind to me. I understand that the content from VR1 to VR16 is lacking, but that is a content issue, not an issue with Veteran ranks. The real fix to this is to make in-game achievements (like fishing, dolmen achievements, quest achievements, etc.) give worthwhile XP. This would please the completionist crowd and give players an alternative to grinding. Also, bumping the XP from doing Undaunted dailies would also be useful. If you want all item sets to drop up to VR16, that can easily be done without changing Veteran ranks. You can also implement an upgrading system which allows you to upgrade the level of a weapon using materials.

The introduction of the CP cap is there to limit the gap between new players and veteran players, so that issue has already been addressed. The down time between DLC's is enough of a stagnant period to allow new players to catch up.

I guess I just don't see an issue that is directly caused by Veteran Ranks and can be resolved by simply removing them.

Islyn · October 2015

Marrtha wrote: »

Well.. Uhm.. I don't want the removal of veteran ranks.

*runs off to hide*

Me either! Colossal waste of time.

Keepercraft · October 2015

Remember low lvl's content in WoW? Oh, no-body remember it, that's why!

Islyn · October 2015

adriant1978 wrote: »

Because I have a lot of alts and neither the time nor patience to individually grind them all to VR16.

CP are account-wide, so I'd rather see those used for itemization post-level 50.

That's a pretty self-centred reason to be honest. If you don't want to get them to v16 then don't play with them.

'I wanna buy a car but cannot be bothered to go to work to pay for it.'

SleepyTroll · October 2015

What if instead of removing vet ranks there was a way to upgrade gear sets? Like taking the required amount of Robedo leather and applying to a vet 12 piece would bring it up to vet 16 even if you have to upgrade to yellow again.

Islyn · October 2015

Shadesofkin wrote: »

The removal of veteran ranks will provide a superior method from the traditional battle leveling we suffer from at this point. Level gating content will become a thing of the past and will not require battle leveling to the the latest VR cap increase, but merely to level 50.

Seriously, if you know a thing about anything you can see plain as day the obvious benefits of VR removal.

Yet you cannot explain them over the most vague terms.

phillyproduct · October 2015

How many sets of gear would actually be viable again? Just from pvp alone.
Hawk eye, morang tong, shadow walker, cyrodil light, ravenger

Then all trials gear would actually be relevant. Then gear sets from dungeons wormcult, ebon and its stam counter part along with adriontness, Juggernaut, sun set, CoA has some amesome gear sets. Dreaguh king slayer, necromancer.

These are just off the top off my head it would be nict to actually wear viper set 4 15% poison bonus with morang tong melee attacks deal poison damage. Set combinations could be fun far more better than grind white gold 4 100million times

UrQuan · October 2015

SleepyTroll wrote: »

What if instead of removing vet ranks there was a way to upgrade gear sets? Like taking the required amount of Robedo leather and applying to a vet 12 piece would bring it up to vet 16 even if you have to upgrade to yellow again.

Sounds good to me. An alternate method of upgrading would be required for jewelry of course.

adriant1978 · October 2015

Islyn wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Because I have a lot of alts and neither the time nor patience to individually grind them all to VR16.

CP are account-wide, so I'd rather see those used for itemization post-level 50.

That's a pretty self-centred reason to be honest. If you don't want to get them to v16 then don't play with them.

'I wanna buy a car but cannot be bothered to go to work to pay for it.'

Actually I'd say it's more like "I want to own several cars but don't want to re-take my driving test for each one".

Champion Points are an account-wide, alt-friendly form of progression. Why do you think Veteran Ranks are either better or needed as well?

Islyn · October 2015

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

I get to play less often than a lot of people & I'm tired of constantly being at a disadvantage against them. I remember when I finally made VR 10 only to see it raised to VR12 the next day. I quit on the spot. And before you say "Champion Points", that's a whole other topic albeit with the same problem.

Also there are no fun ways to keep on leveling every time they raise the cap. It's grind, grind, grind.

Then to be honest, you wouldn't be doing the content that required the highest levels anyway because you are too casual to have time to learn it.

Just enjoy the game, the lvls will come.

(I am not using casual in a rude way, honest. Just the ordinary dictionary way)

phillyproduct · October 2015

Islyn wrote: »

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

I get to play less often than a lot of people & I'm tired of constantly being at a disadvantage against them. I remember when I finally made VR 10 only to see it raised to VR12 the next day. I quit on the spot. And before you say "Champion Points", that's a whole other topic albeit with the same problem.

Also there are no fun ways to keep on leveling every time they raise the cap. It's grind, grind, grind.

Then to be honest, you wouldn't be doing the content that required the highest levels anyway because you are too casual to have time to learn it.

Just enjoy the game, the lvls will come.

(I am not using casual in a rude way, honest. Just the ordinary dictionary way)

What do you half 2 learn about wgt or prison that he Couldn't learn cause he dont have time? Their getting nerfed again and the first 2 boss fights are tank and spank?

kyrowski · October 2015

phillyproduct wrote: »

kyrowski wrote: »

I don't see the point of removing them to be honest. I had a character at Vr2 before the recent XP change and it's now half way through Vr14 and I still have most of the final gold zone to go. The old grind no longer exists.

What will you do with a level 50 cap? Hit cap in a few weeks, grind out end game armour and..... grind out 0.1% increments in CP until you hit the level cap on that, again quite quickly with the catch up mechanism?

What would be the point of new DLC? You're not going to improve your character. New armour at the same with similar rehashed stats?

I guess the only way to keep interest would be to gate equipment on CP numbers and how is that different to Vr?

So in a month you went from v2-v14 and you think thats reasonably? The amount of exp need from 1-50 youve already gotten 5times over.

Why do you want a longer grind? Their will be no grinding off end game gear cause all off a sudden more sets are actually viable. Also u mentioned new dlc, if we stayed v16 Aren't we getting new content with the same stats? Most mmo's have level increases once a year but smaller updates in between no 1 ever says how dare you not raise the level cap every update.

I think it's extremely reasonable, I'm a slow levelling solo player. I took me over a year to get my 1st VR14 and the character in question is not my main, a lot of that time was spent running around IC grabbing trophies for a will power set with my main character, levelling a few other low level alts, crafting etc.

I agree with your point about the new DLC staying at VR16 - I think it should have increased us to VR18 but the material drop rate would have to have been seriously increased for that to happen.

odiasuda · October 2015

If they increased the experience you receive from doing the quests in the VR zones I'd be fine with vet ranks. As it is right now the most efficient way to level VR is to mindlessly AOE grind mobs for hours on end. I'm sure that's not fun for most people (myself included).

phtony06b14_ESO · October 2015

Islyn wrote: »

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

I get to play less often than a lot of people & I'm tired of constantly being at a disadvantage against them. I remember when I finally made VR 10 only to see it raised to VR12 the next day. I quit on the spot. And before you say "Champion Points", that's a whole other topic albeit with the same problem.

Also there are no fun ways to keep on leveling every time they raise the cap. It's grind, grind, grind.

Then to be honest, you wouldn't be doing the content that required the highest levels anyway because you are too casual to have time to learn it.

Just enjoy the game, the lvls will come.

(I am not using casual in a rude way, honest. Just the ordinary dictionary way)

It's not just PVE, PvP has disadvantages as well. And the larger the skill gap, the larger the advantage a VR16 has over say a VR10. The VR10 guy obviously needs more experience but he has to grind against better geared players to get it thereby increasing the grind misery.

All in all, games like GW2 has the best endgame pvp set up. You can choose to use your gear boosted or go with endgame gear sets. B/c the fun is supposed to be in the competition, not blowing up lesser geared players.

Islyn · October 2015

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

I get to play less often than a lot of people & I'm tired of constantly being at a disadvantage against them. I remember when I finally made VR 10 only to see it raised to VR12 the next day. I quit on the spot. And before you say "Champion Points", that's a whole other topic albeit with the same problem.

Also there are no fun ways to keep on leveling every time they raise the cap. It's grind, grind, grind.

Then to be honest, you wouldn't be doing the content that required the highest levels anyway because you are too casual to have time to learn it.

Just enjoy the game, the lvls will come.

(I am not using casual in a rude way, honest. Just the ordinary dictionary way)

It's not just PVE, PvP has disadvantages as well. And the larger the skill gap, the larger the advantage a VR16 has over say a VR10. The VR10 guy obviously needs more experience but he has to grind against better geared players to get it thereby increasing the grind misery.

All in all, games like GW2 has the best endgame pvp set up. You can choose to use your gear boosted or go with endgame gear sets. B/c the fun is supposed to be in the competition, not blowing up lesser geared players.

Except whatever you call the levels that pl;ayer/character will still have the experience.

There are lots of v16s running about who cannot even clear a gold key. No offence meant to anyone - because who cares? It's a game.

It is still true though and I reckon people who want VR removed just wanna cap sooner - but for what?

So someone should have it easier than the more experienced player because.....?

Also everyone has multiple ways to get to v16 so if they CHOOSE to do it the hardest way possible. Well.

Islyn · October 2015

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

I get to play less often than a lot of people & I'm tired of constantly being at a disadvantage against them. I remember when I finally made VR 10 only to see it raised to VR12 the next day. I quit on the spot. And before you say "Champion Points", that's a whole other topic albeit with the same problem.

Also there are no fun ways to keep on leveling every time they raise the cap. It's grind, grind, grind.

Then to be honest, you wouldn't be doing the content that required the highest levels anyway because you are too casual to have time to learn it.

Just enjoy the game, the lvls will come.

(I am not using casual in a rude way, honest. Just the ordinary dictionary way)

It's not just PVE, PvP has disadvantages as well. And the larger the skill gap, the larger the advantage a VR16 has over say a VR10. The VR10 guy obviously needs more experience but he has to grind against better geared players to get it thereby increasing the grind misery.

All in all, games like GW2 has the best endgame pvp set up. You can choose to use your gear boosted or go with endgame gear sets. B/c the fun is supposed to be in the competition, not blowing up lesser geared players.

oops.

temjiu · October 2015

adriant1978 wrote: »

Champion Points are an account-wide, alt-friendly form of progression. Why do you think Veteran Ranks are either better or needed as well?

I think this is really the most relevant point so far in the thread.

Pro-CP players have given plenty of reasons (whether you accept them or not) as to why VR should go away. But the reality of it is this:

VR IS GOING AWAY.

The question should actually be, "Give us players who are supporting what Xen is currently doing good reasons why the VR system should stay."

I have yet to see anything from that side of the field except reasons against CP instead of for VR. Give us some good reasons why we should keep your antiquated VR system?

the only reason I can see that makes any logical sense is that you want that rank as a feeling of personal accomplishment..."I did the vr16 grind, so should you!" Though I certainly celebrate your accomplishment (especially if it was the early VR design when you did it!), it's not a very good reason for the playerbase as a whole, and definitely not a good reason for a company who's trying to attract BACK a player base it lost.

We need to hear things better then "CP stinks" thats not a valid argument. personally, I think VR stinks. the Vr system as it was on launch was one of the reasons I quit after 2 months of playing. and based on the reactions of Xen and Bethesda, there were enough players who felt the same that they are revamping the entire system. I see very little reason to gain another VR level other then accessing gated content, whereas I see very REAL benefits from increasing my CP.

And realistically, if you think that both are just a "grind", then you would probably be more happy to not have anything post 50, and have the entire world simply open to explore. Unfortunately, many MMO's realize that there is a big player base that enjoys growth as a tangible character impacting process, and they want to include those players. ESO is one of those, so whether we like it or not, there will probably be a progression process in this game.

I personally prefer CP over VR. The only player set that CP won't benefit are those who literally have "already maxed their toons." but there isn't much the company can do with that except constantly put in new content, which will probably be eaten up by the hardcore player base 10x faster then ESO can make it, and from previous MMO's history, we know that this process is not a solution.

So we will have a progression meter, and currently it is scheduled to be CP...NOT VR. so its really in the court of the pro-VR players to give reasons to KEEP IT.

RatedChaotic · October 2015

Honestly never wanted the removal of VRs or a cap on cps. Take a beating give a beating.