Give me reasons, why you want veteran ranks gone...

Shadesofkin · October 2015

niawrathb16_ESO wrote: »

I think the most important question is not why but how they plan to arrange things in the future, I personally don't mind the idea of change and in my opinion Zos has not disappointed me yet with adding new content, but I am wary of such a massive change to the game but if the solution would still need to be progressive in some way and levels is the obvious options, I don't know what the alternatives might be...

The Champion System and Item Progression (gaining better gear as you adventure) is the obvious solution.

Necrelios · October 2015

Preyfar wrote: »

I don't want Veteran ranks gone. I want the game's story extended so by the time I hit VR1 I can continue playing, questing and actually enjoying the game rather than being forced into Cadwell's Silver/Gold (which makes playing alt. characters near pointless).

Exactly. From what I've seen of the Orsinium DLC on PTS this is starting to become more viable. With veteran level alts on all three alliances (since there was no Cadwells Silver/Gold at launch) it's just nice to see some fresh content so I don't have to go through the same stories 9 times.

ItsGlaive · October 2015

So that the game opens up at 50. Simple as that. Gold and Silver will remain for those who want to do it (now at level 50), but VR is absurdly long. Particularly if you've already levelled one character to cap.

Shadesofkin · October 2015

Necrelios wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

I don't want Veteran ranks gone. I want the game's story extended so by the time I hit VR1 I can continue playing, questing and actually enjoying the game rather than being forced into Cadwell's Silver/Gold (which makes playing alt. characters near pointless).

Exactly. From what I've seen of the Orsinium DLC on PTS this is starting to become more viable. With veteran level alts on all three alliances (since there was no Cadwells Silver/Gold at launch) it's just nice to see some fresh content so I don't have to go through the same stories 9 times.

1. yes there was a Cadwells Silver/Gold at Launch.
2. Content is great, but removal of the Veteran Ranks would only *improve* future content.

LBxFinalDeath · October 2015

One good thing I can see coming from no Vet Rank is there'll be a lot less "cherry picking" enemies in PvP.

You know the types.

If you aren't Vet 10+ everyone goes for you.

Since hitting Vet 16 all the try hards go for my Vet 4 friendlies instead of me now and such.

OrphanHelgen · October 2015

Didnt even read your post, just gonna answer this question of yours:

Give me reasons, why you want veteran ranks gone...

Answer: So (hopefully) we will have weapons and armor of same value, so we can customize our builds more then todays meta power of vr16 enchants and vr16 weapon value.

example:
Give me one reason to use the sun sets or masters weapons compare to vr16?

tengri · October 2015

Actually... I dont want VR ranks gone; two new ranks with each DLC including new mats and gear and everything... hell yeah, I actually could support that.

In fact, it is the champion system I'd rather want gone... the grind on that front is pure hell and some arbitrary caps and "catching up" mechanics wont do squad in the long run because eventually they will have to raise it.
Again. And again.
Compared to that the VR rank grinding is harmless and there is always a clear goal (which ofc gets lifted up from time to time).
But the CP system... that's the true evil from the darkest depths of oblivion.

pcripper39ub17_ESO · October 2015

Best argument I would have to remove vet levels would be to help the devs. And it really isn't about removing vet levels, it's about picking a top level period. If they don't they will have to go back through old content every time they do a level increase or they will make everything they did before irrelevant.

For example. With the new dlc they are introducing Maelstrom Arena. This place has vet weapons as a reward. These are V16. Now the rewards from VDSA are still V14, also master weapons and such. Increasing vet levels is doing nothing but making what is supposed to be some of the hardest content in the game irrelevant. Why do VDSA or one of the trials when the gear you recieve is worse than that you recieve in the next update?

What I'm trying to say really is they need to keep the power levels consistant as regards to gear recieved in their hard content no matter where that content is located. To do that they need to pick a top level and stick to it.

Shadesofkin · October 2015

tengri wrote: »

Actually... I dont want VR ranks gone; two new ranks with each DLC including new mats and gear and everything... hell yeah, I actually could support that.

In fact, it is the champion system I'd rather want gone... the grind on that front is pure hell and some arbitrary caps and "catching up" mechanics wont do squad in the long run because eventually they will have to raise it.
Again. And again.
Compared to that the VR rank grinding is harmless and there is always a clear goal (which ofc gets lifted up from time to time).
But the CP system... that's the true evil from the darkest depths of oblivion.

Ok, lets do some math here...

It costs 850k experience points to reach each new Veteran Rank after the first.

That is the equivalents of 2 and 1/4th Champion Points.

Now with the catch up mechanic in place and a seasonal increase the process will be easier and quicker than ever before.

An increase of two more veteran ranks each DLC would required 1.7 million experience points for each person...this would be the equivalent of 4.5 champion points...which would be *easier to get*.

Veteran Ranks are not the solution, Champion Points and gear progression are. It's literally so obvious that Cadwell knows what's up.

FuzzyDuck79 · October 2015

I don't see how it would work without them now... Will be interesting to see what solution they take

Reznique · October 2015

There is just no content between v1-v16 except for grind- be though quest grind or mob grind.

The game basically ends at level 50 and only revives when you are v16.

Forestd16b14_ESO · October 2015

Eh I really could care less as long as I keep my attribute and skill points and if removing vet rank increases the level cap that just means more attribute points and skill points. Who doesn't want that.

Shadesofkin · October 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Eh I really could care less as long as I keep my attribute and skill points and if removing vet rank increases the level cap that just means more attribute points and skill points. Who doesn't want that.

This is one of the few things that I had a question about, but I've seen skill points done through achievements in other games, so it would be possible to gain those skill points through the achievement system (or merely provide more skyshards).

OrphanHelgen · October 2015

Funny how they increased worm cult etc from vr12 to vr14.. The even more funny part is that the gap between v12 and v14 are not that noticable, but from vr14 to vr16, its actually insane. This is due to the new enchants and the reason that weapons with more value, have more benefits from the major brutality and sorcery buff, since its a % buff and not a flat amount.

phillyproduct · October 2015

The gear from trials would actually be usable that enough 4 me

RedShirtRob · October 2015

Shadesofkin wrote: »

The removal of veteran ranks will provide a superior method from the traditional battle leveling we suffer from at this point. Level gating content will become a thing of the past and will not require battle leveling to the the latest VR cap increase, but merely to level 50.

Seriously, if you know a thing about anything you can see plain as day the obvious benefits of VR removal.

I am not at all a fan of this "logic". The net is that new characters will reach max-level faster and because max-level is more easily achievable, there will be many more players of that same max-level? So what? If the benefits are so plain, please describe them to those of us who don't "know a thing about anything", as the examples cited are far from compelling for those of who already have leveled as many 'toons as we intend.

Sithisvoid · October 2015

I want them to stay

Asmael · October 2015

About the concerns you might have, someone suggested somewhere (no, I'm not looking for 2.000 different threads just for you) that suggested that every X levels you get extra attribute and skill points.

Lvl 1-4 : 1 attribute / 1 skill point
Lvl 5 : 2 attribute / 2 skill points
Lvl 6-9 : 1 attribute / 1 skill point

Didn't do the math (probably not every 5 levels) but that makes sense to me.

kyrowski · October 2015

I don't see the point of removing them to be honest. I had a character at Vr2 before the recent XP change and it's now half way through Vr14 and I still have most of the final gold zone to go. The old grind no longer exists.

What will you do with a level 50 cap? Hit cap in a few weeks, grind out end game armour and..... grind out 0.1% increments in CP until you hit the level cap on that, again quite quickly with the catch up mechanism?

What would be the point of new DLC? You're not going to improve your character. New armour at the same with similar rehashed stats?

I guess the only way to keep interest would be to gate equipment on CP numbers and how is that different to Vr?

Forestd16b14_ESO · October 2015

Eh I really could care less as long as I keep my attribute and skill points and if removing vet rank increases the level cap that just means more attribute points and skill points. Who doesn

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Eh I really could care less as long as I keep my attribute and skill points and if removing vet rank increases the level cap that just means more attribute points and skill points. Who doesn't want that.

This is one of the few things that I had a question about, but I've seen skill points done through achievements in other games, so it would be possible to gain those skill points through the achievement system (or merely provide more skyshards).

Maybe but what of the attribute points. No way I'm giving up those 16 points.

nimander99 · October 2015

Ive read a few fairly insightful reasons why the game would be better w/o VRanks, always love to hear ideas in opposition to my own especially when they make me think 'That would actually be a better thing then adding Ranks for ever".

Thanks to the folks who have delivered serious and well thought out answers to the OP's question

Zouni · October 2015

But this a game where you interact with live people which means grouping up once u hit vet level! Go play offline games then and leave the vet ranks as is!

Anhedonie · October 2015

But I don't want them gone...

Shadesofkin · October 2015

RedShirtRob wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

The removal of veteran ranks will provide a superior method from the traditional battle leveling we suffer from at this point. Level gating content will become a thing of the past and will not require battle leveling to the the latest VR cap increase, but merely to level 50.

Seriously, if you know a thing about anything you can see plain as day the obvious benefits of VR removal.

I am not at all a fan of this "logic". The net is that new characters will reach max-level faster and because max-level is more easily achievable, there will be many more players of that same max-level? So what? If the benefits are so plain, please describe them to those of us who don't "know a thing about anything", as the examples cited are far from compelling for those of who already have leveled as many 'toons as we intend.

New players are encouraged by the short time it takes to reach cap.

Champion Points are easier to get at cap and will continue to be easy until you reach the current limit, at which point you continue to earn some, you are just prevented from spending them. This provides players with the sense of continued improvement even after hitting a cap.

Items are no longer gated by level but by their own power and abilities, creating a build diversity for anyone and everyone. Sets which only had a VR1-2 version or ye verily a VR 5-6 version are now suddenly available at 50 and for players to experiment with.

Solo players are no longer chasing a new Veteran Rank with each update but are now capable of exploring all of Tamriel (that is unlocked) at cap right away and choosing what content they have to do.

Grinding becomes something that you *can* do but is not a catch up mechanic to reach end cap, but rather merely to gain Champion points (though the average player will see it as a waste of time because of the catch up mechanic and enlightenment).

Power Levels become balanced across the board and aren't in need of constant adjustment based on new veteran ranks. What's more the games systems become less trivial to the higher champion point players because the entire thing is brought in line with the cap of level 50 and item progression.

PvP gains more options for gear and their alliance points.

Group content suddenly becomes relevant again because the power levels have been brought in line, the gear has been adjusted and reevaluated and there is no longer a feeling of "I have outleveled that particular content"

Leveled content of any kind becomes a thing of the past and requires fewer adjustments (battle leveling).

Shadesofkin · October 2015

Oh and returning players are not left with the daunting task of catching up to what is the equivalent of millions of experience points difference between themselves and the current playerbase.

Erdmanski · October 2015

Well I haven't heard anything that makes me think getting rid of them is good. I've heard a lot of complaints about grinding, items levels, CP points, grouping, etc, but no problem that can only be fixed by removing Vet Ranks.

josh.lackey_ESO · October 2015

I don't mind veteran ranks, but I do not like having to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold in order to access all the zones. In theory, you could go grind mobs in Cyrodiil to get to VR16 without Silver and Gold, but that doesn't sound very appealing. Orisinium might make it more attractive to avoid Silver and Gold. But given how many people have the Explorer Pack and how many non-native race NPC's you can find in various zones, I don't understand why access to the other faction zones is gated. Access to skyshards and lorebooks, I guess that's an argument. But I am mostly just interested in being able to check guild vendors at more locations without having to re-log.

Also, doing the Coldharbor question is such a pain. I have done it once, and that was more than enough. It's very long and taxing.

Shadesofkin · October 2015

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

I don't mind veteran ranks, but I do not like having to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold in order to access all the zones. In theory, you could go grind mobs in Cyrodiil to get to VR16 without Silver and Gold, but that doesn't sound very appealing. Orisinium might make it more attractive to avoid Silver and Gold. But given how many people have the Explorer Pack and how many non-native race NPC's you can find in various zones, I don't understand why access to the other faction zones is gated. Access to skyshards and lorebooks, I guess that's an argument. But I am mostly just interested in being able to check guild vendors at more locations without having to re-log.

Orsinium is really only 20 hours of content as far as the quests go, the zone is huge sure, but I don't think it'll be less of a grind to get to VR16 in Orsinium than it would be in any zone. The only way to remove the grind is to remove the Ranks.

I_killed_Vivec · October 2015

Shadesofkin wrote: »

tengri wrote: »

Actually... I dont want VR ranks gone; two new ranks with each DLC including new mats and gear and everything... hell yeah, I actually could support that.

In fact, it is the champion system I'd rather want gone... the grind on that front is pure hell and some arbitrary caps and "catching up" mechanics wont do squad in the long run because eventually they will have to raise it.
Again. And again.
Compared to that the VR rank grinding is harmless and there is always a clear goal (which ofc gets lifted up from time to time).
But the CP system... that's the true evil from the darkest depths of oblivion.

Ok, lets do some math here...

It costs 850k experience points to reach each new Veteran Rank after the first.

That is the equivalents of 2 and 1/4th Champion Points.

Now with the catch up mechanic in place and a seasonal increase the process will be easier and quicker than ever before.

An increase of two more veteran ranks each DLC would required 1.7 million experience points for each person...this would be the equivalent of 4.5 champion points...which would be *easier to get*.

Veteran Ranks are not the solution, Champion Points and gear progression are. It's literally so obvious that Cadwell knows what's up.

I'm sure it takes Cadwell's particular brand of logic to see it, because your final paragraph is at odds with the rest.

1.7 million XP for 2 additional VR - hardly onerous, particularly as you will gain 4 CP at the same time - and most people are grinding CP in any case! You get your VR for free just by playing the game and grinding those CP!

Champion points and gear progression? Not sure how that works - you can be VR16 with way less than 200 CP. If you scale gear off CP then either current VR16s with low CP will lose out, or gear progression will have to be linked to low levels of CP.

Besides, high levels of CP already give an unbalanced advantage - that's why they have to bring in a cap! Why multiply that advantage by linking gear (and food? and potions?) to CP? Particularly when we have a cap of 501, but many people will already have more, so when the cap is raised they will immediately reach the new cap, further extending the separation between players that ZoS wants to restrict.

Also, removal of VR, particularly if coupled with "seasonal" gear, will be the death of crafting.

Flipd · October 2015

For one good damn reason, were westerner's... were not from korea.. we dont like those long ass grinds.

ESO isnt a korean mmorpg, therfore shouldnt have the korean grind feel.

Alot of people are turn off by veteranks. As a newbie i feel like ill be burn out before reach v16. I dont want that, i wana reach endgame and have fun!