A thought regarding major expedition, DK and templar mobility issues, and the four classes

Rayste · October 2015

How would you guys feel if they added major expedition to a dragon knight and Templar ability?

Nightblades have double take
Sorcerers have boundless storm

Both are very good in their own ways. That said, sorcerers have bolt escape and nightblades have cloak w/ concealed weapon options.

The options for DK and temp include elusive mist and retreating maneuvers, one of which requires vampirism and is buggy atm.

I have recently started playing both the Templar and a DK. I main a Sorc and a NB. I see the deficiencies with mobility. Would this help? I think it would be a start.

Thanks for the feedback.

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

It is not impossible for them to get Major Expedition but I understand how you feel. However, I like to think the fact they prefer to be heavily armored based on the fact they are technically both "Knights" leaves them less mobile lol

Also Sorcerers should technically not be so mobile, barring teleportation. Nightblades, on the other hand, should.

Just goes to show not every game sticks entirely to traditional logic in some ways but does in others lol

Rayste · October 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It is not impossible for them to get Major Expedition but I understand how you feel. However, I like to think the fact they prefer to be heavily armored based on the fact they are technically both "Knights" leaves them less mobile lol

Also Sorcerers should technically not be so mobile, barring teleportation. Nightblades, on the other hand, should.

Just goes to show not every game sticks entirely to traditional logic in some ways but does in others lol

Cmon man! you basically just said sorcs should be less mobile and NBs should be the only truly mobile class? That doesn't make sense especially given the cloak factor. I like to run my DK as a medium armor build. Why should it be reserved to heavy armor?

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

Rayste wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It is not impossible for them to get Major Expedition but I understand how you feel. However, I like to think the fact they prefer to be heavily armored based on the fact they are technically both "Knights" leaves them less mobile lol

Also Sorcerers should technically not be so mobile, barring teleportation. Nightblades, on the other hand, should.

Just goes to show not every game sticks entirely to traditional logic in some ways but does in others lol

Cmon man! you basically just said sorcs should be less mobile and NBs should be the only truly mobile class? That doesn't make sense especially given the cloak factor. I like to run my DK as a medium armor build. Why should it be reserved to heavy armor?

It's based on who the classes truly represent. Dragonknights are warriors, drawing from the power of dragons themselves to aid them in combat. Templars are Holy Knights, Paladins if you will, and are armed with both light and might. Sorcerers on the other hand are supposed to be frail wizards that rely on magic for battlefield prowess, including mobility, thus making their ability to use teleportation spells their primary mobility (yes this isn't a thing in TES I am speaking generally and traditionally lol). Last are the Nightblades. Rangers... Archers... Thieves, Assassins, even Ninjas. All of those are professions that rely on mobility and cunning to outwit and overpower their foe.

So in short I was speaking from a bio standpoint lol

Rayste · October 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It is not impossible for them to get Major Expedition but I understand how you feel. However, I like to think the fact they prefer to be heavily armored based on the fact they are technically both "Knights" leaves them less mobile lol

Also Sorcerers should technically not be so mobile, barring teleportation. Nightblades, on the other hand, should.

Just goes to show not every game sticks entirely to traditional logic in some ways but does in others lol

Cmon man! you basically just said sorcs should be less mobile and NBs should be the only truly mobile class? That doesn't make sense especially given the cloak factor. I like to run my DK as a medium armor build. Why should it be reserved to heavy armor?

It's based on who the classes truly represent. Dragonknights are warriors, drawing from the power of dragons themselves to aid them in combat. Templars are Holy Knights, Paladins if you will, and are armed with both light and might. Sorcerers on the other hand are supposed to be frail wizards that rely on magic for battlefield prowess, including mobility, thus making their ability to use teleportation spells their primary mobility (yes this isn't a thing in TES I am speaking generally and traditionally lol). Last are the Nightblades. Rangers... Archers... Thieves, Assassins, even Ninjas. All of those are professions that rely on mobility and cunning to outwit and overpower their foe.

So in short I was speaking from a bio standpoint lol

I made a very legitimate post, its something that could help remedy issues with mobility for the other two classes. They still don't have cloak or bolt.... Given the 'play how you want' motto, you are far off.

Vangy · October 2015

Me is dk. Me has flappy wings. Why me no fly? Dragon leap no count. Me not chicken hopping around. Me DRAGON knight. Me want fly yes?

Shinra · October 2015

Rayste wrote: »

How would you guys feel if they added major expedition to a dragon knight and Templar ability?

Nightblades have double take
Sorcerers have boundless storm

Both are very good in their own ways. That said, sorcerers have bolt escape and nightblades have cloak w/ concealed weapon options.

The options for DK and temp include elusive mist and retreating maneuvers, one of which requires vampirism and is buggy atm.

I have recently started playing both the Templar and a DK. I main a Sorc and a NB. I see the deficiencies with mobility. Would this help? I think it would be a start.

Thanks for the feedback.

You missed some things.

1. Movement potions are available for all classes as well. With a cooldown of 45 seconds and Major Expedition for 50 seconds (V 15 potions) you can get quite some stuff done if you're only lacking movement.

2. Templars have charge, and DKs have dragon leap, which adds at least 'some' moveability. Of course, compared to cloak or bolt escape, all of that is a bit underwhelming, but it shouldn't be left out in a thread like that.

Rayste · October 2015

Vangy wrote: »

Me is dk. Me has flappy wings. Why me no fly? Dragon leap no count. Me not chicken hopping around. Me DRAGON knight. Me want fly yes?

Oh MY FFS. Can we get some professionalism and a voice of reason in this thread pls? Where is @Ezareth when you need him haha!

Rayste · October 2015

Shinra wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

How would you guys feel if they added major expedition to a dragon knight and Templar ability?

Nightblades have double take
Sorcerers have boundless storm

Both are very good in their own ways. That said, sorcerers have bolt escape and nightblades have cloak w/ concealed weapon options.

The options for DK and temp include elusive mist and retreating maneuvers, one of which requires vampirism and is buggy atm.

I have recently started playing both the Templar and a DK. I main a Sorc and a NB. I see the deficiencies with mobility. Would this help? I think it would be a start.

Thanks for the feedback.

You missed some things.

1. Movement potions are available for all classes as well. With a cooldown of 45 seconds and Major Expedition for 50 seconds (V 15 potions) you can get quite some stuff done if you're only lacking movement.

2. Templars have charge, and DKs have dragon leap, which adds at least 'some' moveability. Of course, compared to cloak or bolt escape, all of that is a bit underwhelming, but it shouldn't be left out in a thread like that.

That is about the same as saying reveal potions counter cloak so no change should be made. Serious?

Vangy · October 2015

Well jokes aside yes id like some kind of mobility for my dk. When I run in my small group of 5 and we run into a huggeeee Zerg by chance. My nb friends cloak and run. My sorc friends bolt and run. Me and my templar friend stand there and get rekt.

so yes SOME mobility would be nice. And no pots don't count.

Or for alternative reasoning; me is dk. Me has flappy wings. Why me no fly? Me want fly yes?

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

Rayste wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It is not impossible for them to get Major Expedition but I understand how you feel. However, I like to think the fact they prefer to be heavily armored based on the fact they are technically both "Knights" leaves them less mobile lol

Also Sorcerers should technically not be so mobile, barring teleportation. Nightblades, on the other hand, should.

Just goes to show not every game sticks entirely to traditional logic in some ways but does in others lol

Cmon man! you basically just said sorcs should be less mobile and NBs should be the only truly mobile class? That doesn't make sense especially given the cloak factor. I like to run my DK as a medium armor build. Why should it be reserved to heavy armor?

It's based on who the classes truly represent. Dragonknights are warriors, drawing from the power of dragons themselves to aid them in combat. Templars are Holy Knights, Paladins if you will, and are armed with both light and might. Sorcerers on the other hand are supposed to be frail wizards that rely on magic for battlefield prowess, including mobility, thus making their ability to use teleportation spells their primary mobility (yes this isn't a thing in TES I am speaking generally and traditionally lol). Last are the Nightblades. Rangers... Archers... Thieves, Assassins, even Ninjas. All of those are professions that rely on mobility and cunning to outwit and overpower their foe.

So in short I was speaking from a bio standpoint lol

I made a very legitimate post, its something that could help remedy issues with mobility for the other two classes. They still don't have cloak or bolt.... Given the 'play how you want' motto, you are far off.

Um, you did catch the part where I summarized what I said as "a bio standpoint" right? Bio as in biography, history, lore, that sort of thing. What I said basically has nothing to do with how it is in this game but just from how the classes themselves are depicted. Of course it doesn't apply to this game simply because there are at least quite a few factors that pardon this game from such tradition.

Anhedonie · October 2015

I'm good with chains, but this in't very useful for fleeing.

Rayste · October 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It is not impossible for them to get Major Expedition but I understand how you feel. However, I like to think the fact they prefer to be heavily armored based on the fact they are technically both "Knights" leaves them less mobile lol

Also Sorcerers should technically not be so mobile, barring teleportation. Nightblades, on the other hand, should.

Just goes to show not every game sticks entirely to traditional logic in some ways but does in others lol

Cmon man! you basically just said sorcs should be less mobile and NBs should be the only truly mobile class? That doesn't make sense especially given the cloak factor. I like to run my DK as a medium armor build. Why should it be reserved to heavy armor?

It's based on who the classes truly represent. Dragonknights are warriors, drawing from the power of dragons themselves to aid them in combat. Templars are Holy Knights, Paladins if you will, and are armed with both light and might. Sorcerers on the other hand are supposed to be frail wizards that rely on magic for battlefield prowess, including mobility, thus making their ability to use teleportation spells their primary mobility (yes this isn't a thing in TES I am speaking generally and traditionally lol). Last are the Nightblades. Rangers... Archers... Thieves, Assassins, even Ninjas. All of those are professions that rely on mobility and cunning to outwit and overpower their foe.

So in short I was speaking from a bio standpoint lol

I made a very legitimate post, its something that could help remedy issues with mobility for the other two classes. They still don't have cloak or bolt.... Given the 'play how you want' motto, you are far off.

Um, you did catch the part where I summarized what I said as "a bio standpoint" right? Bio as in biography, history, lore, that sort of thing. What I said basically has nothing to do with how it is in this game but just from how the classes themselves are depicted. Of course it doesn't apply to this game simply because there are at least quite a few factors that pardon this game from such tradition.

Let us be specific for a moment. So in a biographic sort of way, sorcerers should never bother to play a stamina build no?

Islyn · October 2015

Shinra wrote: »

2. Templars have charge, and DKs have dragon leap, which adds at least 'some' moveability. Of course, compared to cloak or bolt escape, all of that is a bit underwhelming, but it shouldn't be left out in a thread like that.

Yes it should because charge must be used on a player/add not just on Nothing like the other 2.

Lorkhan's Tears. Nearly 200g ea lol. *Sure we can spend our money on movement pots or be a vampire and be roasted alive - seems legit*

We do need a movement ability.

We'll live without it, but we could really use it since the running in this game is sooooo slow.

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

Rayste wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It is not impossible for them to get Major Expedition but I understand how you feel. However, I like to think the fact they prefer to be heavily armored based on the fact they are technically both "Knights" leaves them less mobile lol

Also Sorcerers should technically not be so mobile, barring teleportation. Nightblades, on the other hand, should.

Just goes to show not every game sticks entirely to traditional logic in some ways but does in others lol

Cmon man! you basically just said sorcs should be less mobile and NBs should be the only truly mobile class? That doesn't make sense especially given the cloak factor. I like to run my DK as a medium armor build. Why should it be reserved to heavy armor?

It's based on who the classes truly represent. Dragonknights are warriors, drawing from the power of dragons themselves to aid them in combat. Templars are Holy Knights, Paladins if you will, and are armed with both light and might. Sorcerers on the other hand are supposed to be frail wizards that rely on magic for battlefield prowess, including mobility, thus making their ability to use teleportation spells their primary mobility (yes this isn't a thing in TES I am speaking generally and traditionally lol). Last are the Nightblades. Rangers... Archers... Thieves, Assassins, even Ninjas. All of those are professions that rely on mobility and cunning to outwit and overpower their foe.

So in short I was speaking from a bio standpoint lol

I made a very legitimate post, its something that could help remedy issues with mobility for the other two classes. They still don't have cloak or bolt.... Given the 'play how you want' motto, you are far off.

Um, you did catch the part where I summarized what I said as "a bio standpoint" right? Bio as in biography, history, lore, that sort of thing. What I said basically has nothing to do with how it is in this game but just from how the classes themselves are depicted. Of course it doesn't apply to this game simply because there are at least quite a few factors that pardon this game from such tradition.

Let us be specific for a moment. So in a biographic sort of way, sorcerers should never bother to play a stamina build no?

A Sorcerer that actually has physical prowess is known as a Battlemage, but they usually have less magical prowess than a more specialized magician. However, this thread was never about builds in the first place lol

F7sus4 · October 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It is not impossible for them to get Major Expedition but I understand how you feel. However, I like to think the fact they prefer to be heavily armored based on the fact they are technically both "Knights" leaves them less mobile lol

Also Sorcerers should technically not be so mobile, barring teleportation. Nightblades, on the other hand, should.

Just goes to show not every game sticks entirely to traditional logic in some ways but does in others lol

This man here talking good snip, give him some skooma.

Salmonoid · October 2015

Nightblades and Sorcs have Damage and Mobility, Templars and DKs have limited mobility and can tank.

(Templars can do as much burst as Nightblades though so there is that too)

Stop trying to make every class the same, I'm sick of seeing the same thread every few days.

You obviously have no idea what balance and variety is.

F7sus4 · October 2015

Rayste wrote: »

I made a very legitimate post, its something that could help remedy issues with mobility for the other two classes. They still don't have cloak or bolt.... Given the 'play how you want' motto, you are far off.

Dude, don't be that guy, m'kay? "Play how you want" does not mean you should have all unique abilities on every single class. It means you can build your character on your own from the possibilities the class grants you. That's the reason why classes actually exist.

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It is not impossible for them to get Major Expedition but I understand how you feel. However, I like to think the fact they prefer to be heavily armored based on the fact they are technically both "Knights" leaves them less mobile lol

Also Sorcerers should technically not be so mobile, barring teleportation. Nightblades, on the other hand, should.

Just goes to show not every game sticks entirely to traditional logic in some ways but does in others lol

This man here talking good snip, give him some skooma.

Yes, give me Skooma... So I can hand you over to a guard for carrying

WillhelmBlack · October 2015

Don't need it. Just need a better way to stand our ground. Need blinding flashes back.

Master_Kas · October 2015

Vangy wrote: »

Well jokes aside yes id like some kind of mobility for my dk. When I run in my small group of 5 and we run into a huggeeee Zerg by chance. My nb friends cloak and run. My sorc friends bolt and run. Me and my templar friend stand there and get rekt. so yes SOME mobility would be nice. And no pots don't count.

Or for alternative reasoning; me is dk. Me has flappy wings. Why me no fly? Me want fly yes?

LOL so many times I've seen that happen while I cloak away and feel sorry for the "warriors" ..

Tough major expedition alone won't save you from a zerg unless you have some distance between xD

I'd support giving dk/temps major exp. Just be careful what you wish for so ZOS doesn't remove some good skill for it (blinding flashes, old cinder storm, sparks from DW skilline)

Alucardo · October 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

Dude, don't be that guy, m'kay? "Play how you want" does not mean you should have all unique abilities on every single class. It means you can build your character on your own from the possibilities the class grants you. That's the reason why classes actually exist.

While I play DK, and the lack of mobility kind of sucks as you're left behind as fodder by your group, I pretty much agree wholeheartedly here.

Vangy · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Dude, don't be that guy, m'kay? "Play how you want" does not mean you should have all unique abilities on every single class. It means you can build your character on your own from the possibilities the class grants you. That's the reason why classes actually exist.

While I play DK, and the lack of mobility kind of sucks as you're left behind as fodder by your group, I pretty much agree wholeheartedly here.

When the meta of the game is centred around zerg balling in cyro and camping/ganking style in IC, building your own character has no meaning. Yes u can make an awesome 1v1 dk/templar but to what end? Ur gona have to go through hours of arranging a duel and at the end of the day if you win what do u get. Here have 200 AP! Meanwhile zergballs are steam rolling through cyro earning 100k ap in 1 sitting. I would love to play my DK; he's awesome in a 1v1 or a 2v1 or even a 3v1 granted. But that has no purpose except to "show off" in the current meta of this game. If there was some kind of arena then yes I wouldnt be complaining. At least my dk would be good there.

That being said I know my DK gona be awesome in maelstrom arena =D

me_ming · October 2015

Rayste wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It is not impossible for them to get Major Expedition but I understand how you feel. However, I like to think the fact they prefer to be heavily armored based on the fact they are technically both "Knights" leaves them less mobile lol

Also Sorcerers should technically not be so mobile, barring teleportation. Nightblades, on the other hand, should.

Just goes to show not every game sticks entirely to traditional logic in some ways but does in others lol

Cmon man! you basically just said sorcs should be less mobile and NBs should be the only truly mobile class? That doesn't make sense especially given the cloak factor. I like to run my DK as a medium armor build. Why should it be reserved to heavy armor?

It's based on who the classes truly represent. Dragonknights are warriors, drawing from the power of dragons themselves to aid them in combat. Templars are Holy Knights, Paladins if you will, and are armed with both light and might. Sorcerers on the other hand are supposed to be frail wizards that rely on magic for battlefield prowess, including mobility, thus making their ability to use teleportation spells their primary mobility (yes this isn't a thing in TES I am speaking generally and traditionally lol). Last are the Nightblades. Rangers... Archers... Thieves, Assassins, even Ninjas. All of those are professions that rely on mobility and cunning to outwit and overpower their foe.

So in short I was speaking from a bio standpoint lol

I made a very legitimate post, its something that could help remedy issues with mobility for the other two classes. They still don't have cloak or bolt.... Given the 'play how you want' motto, you are far off.

I think DKs and Templars are NOT suppose to be naturally mobile, class-wise. Or else what's the difference between classes? I think what you want is that every class should have the same abilities, where then is the diversity in that? If you play a Templar, you should know what you're getting into, you learn to play around your class's (and race's) strengths and weaknesses. If you want mobility in Templars and DK, slot Rapid Maneuvers in your bars, or drink some potions, that's it. NB and Sorc classes don't have the burst heals that Templars have, nor are they as tanky as DKs should be. Or do you want NB's and Sorcs to have burst heals in their class abilities as well?

Tors · October 2015

Templars and DK's have counters to their "mobility issues"

Templars heal out of danger and DK's "dont die" their way through any sticky situations

Vangy · October 2015

me_ming wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It is not impossible for them to get Major Expedition but I understand how you feel. However, I like to think the fact they prefer to be heavily armored based on the fact they are technically both "Knights" leaves them less mobile lol

Also Sorcerers should technically not be so mobile, barring teleportation. Nightblades, on the other hand, should.

Just goes to show not every game sticks entirely to traditional logic in some ways but does in others lol

Cmon man! you basically just said sorcs should be less mobile and NBs should be the only truly mobile class? That doesn't make sense especially given the cloak factor. I like to run my DK as a medium armor build. Why should it be reserved to heavy armor?

It's based on who the classes truly represent. Dragonknights are warriors, drawing from the power of dragons themselves to aid them in combat. Templars are Holy Knights, Paladins if you will, and are armed with both light and might. Sorcerers on the other hand are supposed to be frail wizards that rely on magic for battlefield prowess, including mobility, thus making their ability to use teleportation spells their primary mobility (yes this isn't a thing in TES I am speaking generally and traditionally lol). Last are the Nightblades. Rangers... Archers... Thieves, Assassins, even Ninjas. All of those are professions that rely on mobility and cunning to outwit and overpower their foe.

So in short I was speaking from a bio standpoint lol

I made a very legitimate post, its something that could help remedy issues with mobility for the other two classes. They still don't have cloak or bolt.... Given the 'play how you want' motto, you are far off.

I think DKs and Templars are NOT suppose to be naturally mobile, class-wise. Or else what's the difference between classes? I think what you want is that every class should have the same abilities, where then is the diversity in that? You play a Templar, you know what you're class are, you learn to play around your class's (and race's) strengths and weaknesses. If you want mobility in Templars and DK, slot Rapid Maneuvers in your bars, or drink some potions, that's it. NB and Sorc classes don't have the burst heals that Templars have, nor are they as tanky as DKs should be. Or do you want NB's and Sorcs to have burst heals in their class abilities as well?

While this is a valid concern, refer to my previous post for some clarification on why I would like some mobility. To give an analogy its like having a game where the fastest tree climber wins but you try to ask a fish to compete. Not gona work. The current meta is all about mobility and zergs. That's where the problem is.

Bashev · October 2015

Templars and DKs do not need mobility neither high DPS because then what will be the difference with the other 2 classes. They need more survivability which is now lacking after the stamina regen nerf while blocking. And DKs need buff for their self heal.

Vangy · October 2015

Bashev wrote: »

Templars and DKs do not need mobility neither high DPS because then what will be the difference with the other 2 classes. They need more survivability which is now lacking after the stamina regen nerf while blocking. And DKs need buff for their self heal.

Yes but people seem to go full QQ whenever i try asking for a rework of dk/templar skillset.. So if thats not possible at least give us some mobility

Bashev · October 2015

Vangy wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Templars and DKs do not need mobility neither high DPS because then what will be the difference with the other 2 classes. They need more survivability which is now lacking after the stamina regen nerf while blocking. And DKs need buff for their self heal.

Yes but people seem to go full QQ whenever i try asking for a rework of dk/templar skillset.. So if thats not possible at least give us some mobility

I really cannot understand why when ZoS removed the miss chance from Templars and DKs, they didnt give them a skill with a dodge chance.

Vangy · October 2015

That is a mystery for them to solve. Also I have been hearing rumors of a DK rework coming up. Not sure how true it is but hopefully they dont break my dk even more =(

Bashev · October 2015

Vangy wrote: »

That is a mystery for them to solve. Also I have been hearing rumors of a DK rework coming up. Not sure how true it is but hopefully they dont break my dk even more =(

Dont worry, I doubt that magicka DKs can be worse.