Is it fair, or encourage people to stay playing...

jelliedsoup · October 2015

In pvp when you hit them more often but their build/gear is too strong.

And they pretty much need to be afk before you can beat them,
Sure most people still playing will disagree but I really don't see how this encourages relatively equal game play, and new players.

The game look so good, it's such a shame the combat is so bad,
The chosen skills dictate if you will win, not what you do when fighting.

It's too late as the game is dying. I've thought this since day one and ZoS has listened to the elites too much along with a very poor understanding of how the combat choices/skills dictate the strength of a build.
Very bad design and understanding by ZoS, to be fair I should not have stuck with the game basd on their initial design.

I just really struggle to grasp why they *** it up as bad as they did.

Dreamo84 · October 2015

Sorry to hear that, I hope you find another MMORPG that suits your preferences better.

Gidorick · October 2015

Dreamo84 wrote: »

Sorry to hear that, I hope you find another MMORPG that suits your preferences better.

It's pretty bad when player responses start to seem as dismissive and boilerplate as ZOS' responses.

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

jelliedsoup wrote: »

It's too late as the game is dying.

You all keep saying this as if it's true, and yet it isn't. Provide proof it is, then we'll talk. And I mean solid proof.

Also keep in mind this game does not revolve around PvP so all this naysay people are spouting because they don't agree with how PvP works in this game is pointless in retrospect. We get it, you disapprove, and tweaks are made to make PvP more entertaining and less about slaughtering but in a war setting you can only do so much. Also Zenimax has far more things to tend to than simply cater to the PvP community 24/7.

Valrien · October 2015

jelliedsoup wrote: »

In pvp when you hit them more often but their build/gear is too strong.

And they pretty much need to be afk before you can beat them,
Sure most people still playing will disagree but I really don't see how this encourages relatively equal game play, and new players.

The game look so good, it's such a shame the combat is so bad,
The chosen skills dictate if you will win, not what you do when fighting.

It's too late as the game is dying. I've thought this since day one and ZoS has listened to the elites too much along with a very poor understanding of how the combat choices/skills dictate the strength of a build.
Very bad design and understanding by ZoS, to be fair I should not have stuck with the game basd on their initial design.

I just really struggle to grasp why they *** it up as bad as they did.

Ha! Listened to the elites...that's funny. This game has catered to casuals a good bit :P

FriedEggSandwich · October 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Dreamo84 wrote: »

Sorry to hear that, I hope you find another MMORPG that suits your preferences better.

It's pretty bad when player responses start to seem as dismissive and boilerplate as ZOS' responses.

Hard not to be dismissive when posts are so vague and clearly weighted to cause polarization. Go check the op's previous.

Alucardo · October 2015

I had trouble bringing any DPS to the table when I first joined PvP - now I think about it, it was probably because I was trying to use my old PvE build, which just isn't going to cut it. Several failed builds later and more Champion points I was feeling a lot more confident and winning more fights than losing.
Basically, if whatever you're doing isn't working, try something new. You'll find a setup that works for you. If you need help, make a thread explaining what race/class you are and what type of build you're after, or where you feel you're lacking - I'm sure someone would be willing to provide some solutions and valuable feedback.

DannyLV702 · October 2015

I used to get whooped badly when I first started pvp'ing. But as an athlete I got motivated to become better instead of wishing that the people who dedicate their lives to this game were on the same low ground as me. Come on its ridiculous. Invest your time and get better, and if you don't have any time for that, then maybe a competitive ONLINE video game isn't for you. There are other similar games that aren't online based and you get to be the best player in the entire universe of that game. This isn't that game.

As a boxer, wouldn't it be funny if I complained to the government about how soooo much better Mayweather is than me, and how it's not fair that he has all this time to train, all this fancy training gear, gyms and I don't? Yeah I'd laugh at me too. Dedicate your time and get gud

Alucardo · October 2015

DannyLV702 wrote: »

As a boxer, wouldn't it be funny if I complained to the government about how soooo much better Mayweather is than me, and how it's not fair that he has all this time to train, all this fancy training gear, gyms and I don't? Yeah I'd laugh at me too. Dedicate your time and get gud

lul you can't beat Mayweather in a 1v1? lrn2box

RatedChaotic · October 2015

S**t happens

DannyLV702 · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

As a boxer, wouldn't it be funny if I complained to the government about how soooo much better Mayweather is than me, and how it's not fair that he has all this time to train, all this fancy training gear, gyms and I don't? Yeah I'd laugh at me too. Dedicate your time and get gud

lul you can't beat Mayweather in a 1v1? lrn2box

No! He needs to be nerfed! Or at least battle level me lol

TheShadowScout · October 2015

Some people are just better.
More skilled, better geared, more c-points, better food buffs and a stack of tripots...

And yes, it is somewhat vexing when you fight someone you can't even seem to scratch in PvP while they destroy you in short order. Now, I don't mind loosing, but I prefer those battles where I get the impression that if I had just been a -little- better, I might perhaps have won. The ones where I feel like I would never have had any chance are just vexing.

But hey, them's the breaks, sometimes it goes one way, sometimes another.

As long as it isn't all the "undefeatable enemies", I am content to imagine my characters as simple rank and file soldiers who occasionally encounter an enemy elite warrior, and then get their behinds handed to them.
And since the PvP in ESO isn't fixed numbers like in some other games, its always possible (and often fun) to go and counter their quality with some quantity of your own...

AshTal · October 2015

The Cp cap is meant to help here but I suspect it will do very little we think have all seen 4 people fight one Dk and been unable to get him down to half health as he kills all 4 people or a NB jump in fear and then kill another player in 2 seconds before they could do anything. I doubt it's down just to CP

newtinmpls · October 2015

AshTal wrote: »

The Cp cap is meant to help here but I suspect it will do very little we think have all seen 4 people fight one Dk and been unable to get him down to half health as he kills all 4 people or a NB jump in fear and then kill another player in 2 seconds before they could do anything. I doubt it's down just to CP

I know that for a while in IC I was playing EP with friends and we used to run into the same particular DC NB who would gank us every time he found us. After a while it was so ... aggravating that we all basically got together to strategize how to take out that particular guy. One day we fought to a standstill.... then later we killed him and he killed us.

Then a couple of more "we killed him" days. Now I haven't seen him in a while. Apparently he only ganks folks who don't successfully fight back.

My point is that you can learn to fight any someone... just takes work and time and sometimes cooperation with others.

Dreamo84 · October 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Dreamo84 wrote: »

Sorry to hear that, I hope you find another MMORPG that suits your preferences better.

It's pretty bad when player responses start to seem as dismissive and boilerplate as ZOS' responses.

Well, what else should I say? Sit here and argue with him? He clearly made up his mind and doesn't like the game. It's not a job, this is supposed to be fun.

Reznique · October 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

It's too late as the game is dying.

You all keep saying this as if it's true, and yet it isn't. Provide proof it is, then we'll talk. And I mean solid proof.

Also keep in mind this game does not revolve around PvP so all this naysay people are spouting because they don't agree with how PvP works in this game is pointless in retrospect. We get it, you disapprove, and tweaks are made to make PvP more entertaining and less about slaughtering but in a war setting you can only do so much. Also Zenimax has far more things to tend to than simply cater to the PvP community 24/7.

Proof?

People leave the game, and from those who still play it- less and less still like it. If your friends list would contain a few names in there you would be able to see that some people are offline for more than 20 days etc

Wait for a few new games come and experience an empty zone chat

F7sus4 · October 2015

jelliedsoup wrote: »

In pvp when you hit them more often but their build/gear is too strong.

And they pretty much need to be afk before you can beat them,
Sure most people still playing will disagree but I really don't see how this encourages relatively equal game play, and new players.

Yes, pretty much. Everyday I see players not only not understanding basic combat mechanics, but mindlessly spamming random skills or just light attacks, not using block, not breaking free etc. and yet, still expecting to win. You don't even need to start rolling your most powerful combos to wipe them. How is this my fault and not theirs?

jelliedsoup wrote: »

The game look so good, it's such a shame the combat is so bad,
The chosen skills dictate if you will win, not what you do when fighting.

Aren't actually "the chosen skills" the actions "you do when fighting"? If there's a strategy that leads you to victory and you volutarily avoid it, why do you complain and expect to win?

jelliedsoup wrote: »

It's too late as the game is dying. I've thought this since day one and ZoS has listened to the elites too much along with a very poor understanding of how the combat choices/skills dictate the strength of a build.

There no such thing as a cookie-cutter builds. It's the skill of player piloting the character. You can give highly optimized on both resources, skills and gear build to noob/average player and he will still die to half-random character geared up on cheap, crafted sets piloted by pro-player. But what will happen afterwards? A noob will come to the forums and compain on their: 1) lack of gold for "the best" gear, 2) CP system, 3) no time to advance while being utterly blind it's him who's the only fault of him being dead during the fight.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Very bad design and understanding by ZoS, to be fair I should not have stuck with the game basd on their initial design.

You'll never achieve final and ultimate balance in ameri-trash styled mechanic, but you can make one extremely close to it.

Sausage · October 2015

Thats just like ESO's kind of games are, but I think its progress, devs at least think new vs casual vs vet thing nowadays, old-school even modern design is usually all for vets.

Prabooo · October 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

In pvp when you hit them more often but their build/gear is too strong.

And they pretty much need to be afk before you can beat them,
Sure most people still playing will disagree but I really don't see how this encourages relatively equal game play, and new players.

Yes, pretty much. Everyday I see players not only not understanding basic combat mechanics, but mindlessly spamming random skills or just light attacks, not using block, not breaking free etc. and yet, still expecting to win. You don't even need to start rolling your most powerful combos to wipe them. How is this my fault and not theirs?

jelliedsoup wrote: »

The game look so good, it's such a shame the combat is so bad,
The chosen skills dictate if you will win, not what you do when fighting.

Aren't actually "the chosen skills" the actions "you do when fighting"? If there's a strategy that leads you to victory and you volutarily avoid it, why do you complain and expect to win?

jelliedsoup wrote: »

It's too late as the game is dying. I've thought this since day one and ZoS has listened to the elites too much along with a very poor understanding of how the combat choices/skills dictate the strength of a build.

There no such thing as a cookie-cutter builds. It's the skill of player piloting the character. You can give highly optimized on both resources, skills and gear build to noob/average player and he will still die to half-random character geared up on cheap, crafted sets piloted by pro-player. But what will happen afterwards? A noob will come to the forums and compain on their: 1) lack of gold for "the best" gear, 2) CP system, 3) no time to advance while being utterly blind it's him who's the only fault of him being dead during the fight.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Very bad design and understanding by ZoS, to be fair I should not have stuck with the game basd on their initial design.

You'll never achieve final and ultimate balance in ameri-trash styled mechanic, but you can make one extremely close to it.

THIS

McCracken79 · October 2015

jelliedsoup wrote: »

In pvp when you hit them more often but their build/gear is too strong.

And they pretty much need to be afk before you can beat them,
Sure most people still playing will disagree but I really don't see how this encourages relatively equal game play, and new players.

The game look so good, it's such a shame the combat is so bad,
The chosen skills dictate if you will win, not what you do when fighting.

It's too late as the game is dying. I've thought this since day one and ZoS has listened to the elites too much along with a very poor understanding of how the combat choices/skills dictate the strength of a build.
Very bad design and understanding by ZoS, to be fair I should not have stuck with the game basd on their initial design.

I just really struggle to grasp why they *** it up as bad as they did.

To be completely honest the devs have not listened to the elites at all. They are catering to the 90% who just want PvE content. I seen this as being an issue ever since I heard they were planning to release an Elder Scrolls MMO. This was going to attract gamers who have never played an MMO before. These are the players who are wanting solo PvE content and that's fine but you really have to understand that an MMO is meant to be played with friends, doing dungeons and trials however PvP is what keeps hardcore players in this game and if it continues to be neglected like this it's only a matter of time. This game, at it's current state, is a mess and it's because of the 90% who cry all day long that they get humiliated in PvP. Not everyone who beats you is cheating they are just amazing at what they do, theory crafting, choosing the right skills and knowing how to utilize them and finally moving around. I can't tell you how many players just stand there and don't roll dodge, block or interrupt anything.

I've been playing this game since beta and Cyrodiil back then was flawless. You could have 200 players in one location in epic battles with no performance loss at all. Now if you have two groups of 20 or so it drops so bad I just can't get myself to even attempt it anymore. These elite players are elite because they understand how MMO's work (PvP) and what happens if certain changes are made. Prime example was the removal of the AOE caps. I found out there was a poll before the change on the AOE caps and over 3500 said don't implement it, 500 said it needs to be in the game. ZOS puts in AOE caps and that started the snowball effect. AOE provokes ball zergs, believe it or not. My guild always ran in big groups but in the beginning of this game we never balled up at all, we played how it should be played, with strategy and each class had their roles.

I disagree with the you on the combat. The combat system in this game is amazing. If they would just listen to us, read the forums, fix the bugs that have been in the game since beta this game would shine like it did in 1.5 and before. Now I know you can not please everyone however PvP 1.5 and before was amazing and I had a blast. They need to seriously revisit that and just communicate with us in these forums with actual responses and not just malarkey like, "We understand people will disagree from time to time, please respect others in future post."

One thing that would bring back the players that left would be an arena, 1v1, 3v3, and maybe 5v5 as well as implement a dueling system in the open world like Archeage has. I played that game for a while and it helped our guild out so much with just practicing with our guildies. Walk up to a person, challenge him and duel anywhere. Just think how awesome that would be. This may or may not be so easy to implement into the game but they need to work on this before any other updates (DLC) because early next year we have two new MMO's coming out and I can tell you I will probably be one of them who leaves to play them unless they start to give us some info on their future plans.

F7sus4 · October 2015

McCracken79 wrote: »

To be completely honest the devs have not listened to the elites at all.

They did on last thursday, actually, on a live TS meeting.

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

OLIVI3R wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

It's too late as the game is dying.

You all keep saying this as if it's true, and yet it isn't. Provide proof it is, then we'll talk. And I mean solid proof.

Also keep in mind this game does not revolve around PvP so all this naysay people are spouting because they don't agree with how PvP works in this game is pointless in retrospect. We get it, you disapprove, and tweaks are made to make PvP more entertaining and less about slaughtering but in a war setting you can only do so much. Also Zenimax has far more things to tend to than simply cater to the PvP community 24/7.

Proof?

People leave the game, and from those who still play it- less and less still like it. If your friends list would contain a few names in there you would be able to see that some people are offline for more than 20 days etc

Wait for a few new games come and experience an empty zone chat

So your friends aren't online, big deal. That's a mere handful of the population and in no way indicates the game is dieing. Solid proof would be along the lines of not seeing a single soul in the most populated areas or anywhere else you go period over a prolonged period of time like, say, a month or so?

No I still see plenty of people, so this game isn't dieing.