ZoS~ block casting for weapons.

jelliedsoup · October 2015

Xjcon wrote: »

Starshadw wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

yea and how Long you can block as a magicka user with ~10k Stamina?

About as much as the stamina user - IF said stamina user wants to be able to use her/his skills. Think of it this way.

Magicka User has:
10k Stamina
30k Magicka
When they need to roll-dodge, block, or break free, they use that stamina pool, leaving all 30k for skills (which likely also includes some damage mitigation skills and possibly a heal - which may also mean less need to worry about roll-dodging and blocking).

Stamina User has:
10k Magicka
30k Stamina
When they need to roll-dodge, block, or break free - they pull from the stamina pool, thereby reducing the amount of stamina available for skills. So, instead of actually having 30k, it's really more like 20k. Any damage mit and heals are also likely to be pulling from the stamina pool. See what happens? In a fight, the stamina user is far more likely to run out of resources before the magicka user, simply because they are only using ONE resource pool to fuel everything, whereas the magicka user is using two pools. And, those who still have a magicka skill or two on their bars to try and use that pool aren't getting as much bang for the buck because of how small the pool is (which affects spell damage, etc.) - something that, again, the magicka user doesn't need to fret over since basic maneuvers don't have to worry about things like damage and crit.

If ZOS doesn't want to implement a third resource, another possible fix would be to make the player be able to choose from which pool to have basic maneuvers pull. But that would be the final nail in the coffin to folks still trying to play hybrid builds that need both resources.

Except the stamina user will have a much higher stamina regen and stamina skill cost reduction.

You can't do the same for magicka?

Kessra · October 2015

eliisra wrote: »

Loads of class skills cant be used while blocking, especially the case for templars. All their class dps abilities will cancel if you touch block mid-action.

Clipping animations with a simple block on the other hand is also a hughe DPS boost as it allows f.e with steal tornado to cast it twice for the same time period a non-canceled animation would have taken. This, however, also drains stamina pretty fast.

The combat mechanic is rather dependent on low latency to push out skills or abilities as fast as possible which also increases DPS drastically. Thats why, especially in PvP, you often face players which macro their attacks. I doubt that so many high skilled players are among us who can cast steal tornad, cancel the animation, do a light attack in between and repeat the whole thing without any delay at all - from their animation it just looks like they are executing on canceled steal tornado followed by the next one - and that constantly without any larger gaps as long as they have stamina. Certain skills should have an internal timer - if triggered the skill is usable only after a few seconds had passed. This might also increase the usability of haste as this might reduce the time the skill is on CD.

Concerning dodge-cost for stamin players vs. magica players: Maybe a solution like in GW2, where there are 2 charges that refill within a certain timeframe and are independent from stamina or magica. Once you run out of charges, you can't dodge roll any more untill one of the charges refilled. Here haste could also fill up the charge faster which might increase the overall usefulness in regards of PvP i.e.

BuggeX · October 2015

Xjcon wrote: »

Starshadw wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

yea and how Long you can block as a magicka user with ~10k Stamina?

About as much as the stamina user - IF said stamina user wants to be able to use her/his skills. Think of it this way.

Magicka User has:
10k Stamina
30k Magicka
When they need to roll-dodge, block, or break free, they use that stamina pool, leaving all 30k for skills (which likely also includes some damage mitigation skills and possibly a heal - which may also mean less need to worry about roll-dodging and blocking).

Stamina User has:
10k Magicka
30k Stamina
When they need to roll-dodge, block, or break free - they pull from the stamina pool, thereby reducing the amount of stamina available for skills. So, instead of actually having 30k, it's really more like 20k. Any damage mit and heals are also likely to be pulling from the stamina pool. See what happens? In a fight, the stamina user is far more likely to run out of resources before the magicka user, simply because they are only using ONE resource pool to fuel everything, whereas the magicka user is using two pools. And, those who still have a magicka skill or two on their bars to try and use that pool aren't getting as much bang for the buck because of how small the pool is (which affects spell damage, etc.) - something that, again, the magicka user doesn't need to fret over since basic maneuvers don't have to worry about things like damage and crit.

If ZOS doesn't want to implement a third resource, another possible fix would be to make the player be able to choose from which pool to have basic maneuvers pull. But that would be the final nail in the coffin to folks still trying to play hybrid builds that need both resources.

Except the stamina user will have a much higher stamina regen and stamina skill cost reduction.

Thats true, on my DK i have 26k magicka and 21k Stamina, i tryed to Play with 14k Stamina.
Since i dont spend more than 501 CPs right now, i dont have nothing spent into Stamina costreduction or Stamina regen, well have some Points into blockcost reduction. I also dont have Cps into Breakfree reduction since i Need the green Points for arcanist and mage.
This Stamina pool is used for Block / Breakfree / Invasion (you know i dont have a gapcloser so i Need to use this one)
One Invasion cost 3,5k Stamina, break free ~4k. even the 21k will be empty entry 5-10 sec

hrothbern · October 2015

A taunt is aimed at drawing fire to you, so that your Damage Dealers are not hindered in executing.
Your tank, fully focused on damage mitigation, doing himself damage like a wet noodle, no threat at all for the boss, the one to take that taunt role

right?

Block Casting is the perfect taunt in PVP !

...

at least for those players that are *** enough to be taunted

Sneaky-Snurr · October 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

and no, blockcasting and annimation canceling are a different kettle of fish.
attack speed has no issue as ZOS was unable to create fluent animation times where a 50% attackspeed reduction would result in a 50% animation time reduction. thus they implemented hard animationtimes of around 0.8sec (thats why we see "casted" abilities do not get below this threshhold) creating an internal CD for the next ability.
only light and heavy attacks have a upspeeded animation time by attackspeed wich lead to the extinction of that stat as it was prety much useless as no one skiped using their high dmg abilities and light/heavy attacks were only timed to fill the gap inbetween two ability usages...

they will never change the way animation cancling works as it will screw situational defense in form of blocking and rolldodging entirely as those abilities require to cancel animations in order to function at all.

@Tankqull
You completely missed my point. Regardless, block casting actually is a byproduct of AC. People are able to exploit the loopholes in AC to block-cast. It is as simple as that. My point is that AC has rendered attack speed mechanics of the game to be completely useless and it definitely has opened up opportunities for macro users. Hence why I feel animation and impact timing mechanics should be revised and tweaked by the Devs.

Also, they have to change the way AC works whether they like it or not (or rather completely eradicate AC, which is much more preferred) because like I said, macro-ers are at large. And no, fixing/removing AC would not screw blocking and roll-dodging. There is no need to cancel animations in the first place. If you choose to perform a movement, the whole animation has to finish before executing another movement. It's a choice with opportunity costs which gives even more reward to the player in terms of timing and 'finesse' as stated by @ZOS initially.

I hope you're not advocating for AC as it opens the door for a lot of exploits as seen currently in the game. I hate it but I still begrudgingly use AC just to match the competitive level of the game in PvP and PvE to a certain extent.

Below is an extract from another thread which points out how AC and its byproducts have affected the game as a whole. His explanation may sound condescending to some but he has an extremely valid point and I can understand where he came from.

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

the way i see it, if animations were NOT cancel-able, or rather, to get benefits of a said skill you MUST let the animation complete(as it should be imo) this would separate weak and stronger skills (as the above said, weaker ones having shorter/instant animations while more powerful abilities would have longer animations) one would find REASON to chain them in specific order, or utilize them at proper times. One would use smaller/shorter attacks/skills to help toss his opponent off balance, then once that is achieved(stun, fear, knocked down, off balance, whatever) one would queue up his more powerful attacks for that 'smack-down' - IE a system that would take skill, timing, intelligence, and planning (and cunning) to achieve.

Not this 'L2P NOOB' system where one can become 'awesomesauce' by learning to block for an instant right after 'starting' his most powerful attack.

What I instead see here, is those who claim its 'part of the system' - those who claim 'it takes skill' (IE: the L2P crowd) and those who b!tch and moan about 'thems dammed pvecarebears tryin' to ruins our gamez' are all one and the same.

They do NOT want 'true skill' or 'timing' or any form of 'planning and thought' in the actual game-play. They want their 1(or 2) trick ponies and thier counter-trike kiddee play-style preserved. they DO NOT care about the survival of the game, as a whole, preserved, they simply want 'THEIR' time in this game 'THEIR' way.

I actually think the stam regen nerf while blocking was put in as a (VERY weak and not really thought out well) way to FIX this broken system.

Once again, Those who claim over and over how its 'part of the intended system' please, prove it, post a link of a dev actually saying this, get a dev to come join the discussion, or make an official statement. Please. Any of them even if its some random post on some random discussion on some far off random website. I challenge anyone to come up with any actual 'official' dev statement. At any time(before or after launch) of the games development. It was an oversite, a mistake, and its a bug/unintended result of making it so that players can have their 'Oh fudge' moment/save button and NOT get pancaked because they were stuck casting when the big red lands on their heads. NOT an official 'we want u to have instant cast anything'