DLC = New Sets BOP = P2W??

starlizard70ub17_ESO · October 2015

While I agree it's not P2W, bind on pickup is a rather stupid and short-sighted way to go here. UO has been going quite well for almost 20 years. Why, because of player customizable housing and a great player centered economy. Maybe ZOS could learn a lession there.

Vrienda · October 2015

Not really any different than skyrim requiring dragonborn to get Stalhrim armor.

JamilaRaj · October 2015

SleepyTroll wrote: »

So you want ZOS to not make money? Think of it like you payed for the base game wich was vet14 then you get a little demo of vet 16. They need money.

Thanks divines! At least they have sensible, rational reason for P2W. Imagine they ruined the game just for the lulz, that would be terrible!

Callous2208 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that a person who never buys a games dlc/expansions, should have access to all gear, materials and content of said expansion?

Indeed. Such principle used to be widely known as fair play; players had level playing field regradless of how much if at all they paid to the game operator. The opposite, where players are provided with advantages in exchange for cash, was called corruption.

Callous2208 · October 2015

JamilaRaj wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

So you want ZOS to not make money? Think of it like you payed for the base game wich was vet14 then you get a little demo of vet 16. They need money.

Thanks divines! At least they have sensible, rational reason for P2W. Imagine they ruined the game just for the lulz, that would be terrible!

Callous2208 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that a person who never buys a games dlc/expansions, should have access to all gear, materials and content of said expansion?

Indeed. Such principle used to be widely known as fair play; players had level playing field regradless of how much if at all they paid to the game operator. The opposite, where players are provided with advantages in exchange for cash, was called corruption.

None of what you stated here rings true. You get what you pay for has and always will be the rule. Now it seems you are suggesting that this title or any, without subscription, should provide new and free services and content for it's duration? Hate to use a generic metaphor but; this is the equivalent of buying a new car today, and expecting the dealership to offer you a newer model for free every time it is upgraded with new features, while also letting you keep the old one. Fair play? Level playing field? That has nothing to do with this. By your reasoning everyone who does not currently own ESO should be given free copies with all expansions. Might I ask, how does one keep the servers up and running with this model you have suggested.

Alucardo · October 2015

reften wrote: »

You can use all those gimmick sets, and I'll happily own you with my 5 hundlings/4 ashens set with agility jewelry.

Such a great combo. I use it myself, bar the agility rings coz poor.

Shadesofkin · October 2015

JamilaRaj wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

So you want ZOS to not make money? Think of it like you payed for the base game wich was vet14 then you get a little demo of vet 16. They need money.

Thanks divines! At least they have sensible, rational reason for P2W. Imagine they ruined the game just for the lulz, that would be terrible!

Callous2208 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that a person who never buys a games dlc/expansions, should have access to all gear, materials and content of said expansion?

Indeed. Such principle used to be widely known as fair play; players had level playing field regradless of how much if at all they paid to the game operator. The opposite, where players are provided with advantages in exchange for cash, was called corruption.

There has *never* been a game that I can recall where all players who purchased the base game were allowed to take advantage of future expanded content free of charge. Subscriptions were really the only "fair play" model that you could possibly point to, any other including the most popular MMORPG to-date requires a player to purchase the expansions in order to gain access to the majority of the expanded content.

JamilaRaj · October 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

So you want ZOS to not make money? Think of it like you payed for the base game wich was vet14 then you get a little demo of vet 16. They need money.

Thanks divines! At least they have sensible, rational reason for P2W. Imagine they ruined the game just for the lulz, that would be terrible!

Callous2208 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that a person who never buys a games dlc/expansions, should have access to all gear, materials and content of said expansion?

Indeed. Such principle used to be widely known as fair play; players had level playing field regradless of how much if at all they paid to the game operator. The opposite, where players are provided with advantages in exchange for cash, was called corruption.

None of what you stated here rings true. You get what you pay for has and always will be the rule. Now it seems you are suggesting that this title or any, without subscription, should provide new and free services and content for it's duration? Hate to use a generic metaphor but; this is the equivalent of buying a new car today, and expecting the dealership to offer you a newer model for free every time it is upgraded with new features, while also letting you keep the old one.

I could elaborate on your metaphor: the dealer would also change traffic rules every three months in such way that new cars would have right of way not only where roads were extended to, but also everywhere else. In other words, with use of old cars crippled retroactively, no, one is not even getting what he paid for.

And just to clarify: if ZOS made new gear available (with same effort) in existing zones, they could perhaps require payment for new zones and still stay clear of P2W. If they bind it and want to avoid P2W, then they must drop money from the equation.
But ZOS binds it precisely for that P2W aspect to increase sales (they might even design content on assumption it will be played largely for rewards only, not fun).

Callous2208 wrote: »

Fair play? Level playing field? That has nothing to do with this. By your reasoning everyone who does not currently own ESO should be given free copies with all expansions. Might I ask, how does one keep the servers up and running with this model you have suggested.

I do not care. This is market economy and for profit enterprise, not some community project. As much as what they do with profits is their thing, where they take money from is their problem. Especially if they advertise their product as buy (once) to play.

kevlarto_ESO · October 2015

BOP not pay to win, in any way shape or form /facepalm

Sword of a thousand truths in the store yes p2w, if I p2w I better be able to win, one shot and be a god among freeloading scrubs that's p2w. until that happens how be give this p2w crap a rest.. /sigh

Sausage · October 2015

If they were after money, why didnt they take our 400% boosters for new and casuals idea. That would been the perfect way to create extra revenue, put up CP leaderboard and watch how everyone burn all their money on boosters.

Reznique · October 2015

This is how ESO begins to die

Just wait for it

Marrtha · October 2015

laksikus wrote: »

reften wrote: »

Crafted is still better then any dropped items in game IMO, can perfectly customized one's build.

With the exception of jewelry of course, but doesn't count as you can't craft jewerly

troll detected
crafted is still better than dropped /me laughs

show me any crafted set that is better than overwhelming, scathing, molag kena, nerieneth, skoria, engine,

These are monster helm sets. I will trade a Molag Kena helm in order to get 2 piece Torug's pact + 5 Julianos. Until I would ideally obtain a Maelstrom arena fire staff + the said helm to replace Torug's. Depends on your build. I think that these new item sets are BoP so you could feel you earned them. Because those are challenges. Too bad people sitting on a bunch of gold can't have everything they want instantly. The game is Buy To Play, but no game can run off no income, hence the crown store plus DLC. Or do you really expect someone to work on such a game so you could play it free? Sigh.... I farm mats, refine, I am sitting on loads of legendary upgrades and am slowly collecting mats.. I do agree there is a lot of grind-requirements atm but it all in the end depends on how you play.

BuggeX · October 2015

laksikus wrote: »

reften wrote: »

Crafted is still better then any dropped items in game IMO, can perfectly customized one's build.

With the exception of jewelry of course, but doesn't count as you can't craft jewerly

troll detected
crafted is still better than dropped /me laughs

show me any crafted set that is better than overwhelming, scathing, molag kena, nerieneth, skoria, engine,

Basic Monster sets can be dropped in the normal game without any dlc.
Heavy Seducer/magnus is a strong set for heavy magicka users, cause there isnt nothing droppable as heavy armor.
only good set is elfbane, but with this set you will lack a tons of magicka sustain.

and you know wath else, since the pre beta, im using a craftet heavy seducer or Magnus on my dk

BlackEar · October 2015

laksikus wrote: »

reften wrote: »

Crafted is still better then any dropped items in game IMO, can perfectly customized one's build.

With the exception of jewelry of course, but doesn't count as you can't craft jewerly

troll detected
crafted is still better than dropped /me laughs

show me any crafted set that is better than overwhelming, scathing, molag kena, nerieneth, skoria, engine,

Hunding's Rage, Nightmother's Gaze for stamina users. You named3 sets that only has 2 pieces which is a bad comparison.

And on topic: What we need is for dropped gear to be more useful. It takes out all the fun that you can craft yourself to top tier gear. We need dungeons and raids to do this!

BuggeX · October 2015

BlackEar wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

reften wrote: »

Crafted is still better then any dropped items in game IMO, can perfectly customized one's build.

With the exception of jewelry of course, but doesn't count as you can't craft jewerly

troll detected
crafted is still better than dropped /me laughs

show me any crafted set that is better than overwhelming, scathing, molag kena, nerieneth, skoria, engine,

Hunding's Rage, Nightmother's Gaze for stamina users. You named3 sets that only has 2 pieces which is a bad comparison.

And on topic: What we need is for dropped gear to be more useful. It takes out all the fun that you can craft yourself to top tier gear. We need dungeons and raids to do this!

the sets which increes stats for the whole Group Needs to be buffed and scale to v16, they are uniq and would be worth on v16

Kuroinu · October 2015

gen_reynard2050 wrote: »

http://accursedlegion.enjin.com/forum/m/20476532/viewthread/24472622-every-new-set-master-weapons-coming-orsinium/post/last

I noticed that all these weapons say "(Researchable)" in the top right corner. Can anyone give additional insight into this? If it's what I think it is, then it sounds interesting.

BuggeX · October 2015

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

gen_reynard2050 wrote: »

http://accursedlegion.enjin.com/forum/m/20476532/viewthread/24472622-every-new-set-master-weapons-coming-orsinium/post/last

I noticed that all these weapons say "(Researchable)" in the top right corner. Can anyone give additional insight into this? If it's what I think it is, then it sounds interesting.

they where build with ingame Code for the link in Chat, they also say they style is dwemer, but they arent.
+ templates on the pts doesnt have nothing researched, so a addon could say to all items that they can be researched.

reften · October 2015

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

gen_reynard2050 wrote: »

http://accursedlegion.enjin.com/forum/m/20476532/viewthread/24472622-every-new-set-master-weapons-coming-orsinium/post/last

I noticed that all these weapons say "(Researchable)" in the top right corner. Can anyone give additional insight into this? If it's what I think it is, then it sounds interesting.

sorry but these weapons suck...except for the 2hander, which A. I don't use except as a buff bar, and B. sure don't use critical charge. more than once a battle.

This is Zos's way of buffing abilities that suck. No interest, back to my hundlings/ashens.

TalonShina · October 2015

Looking at the weapons they are nice but the enchants on resto and one handed sword don't make me want to go off the path i am planning from crafted gear. Plus since shields are armor and not weapons there is no shield. The weapons are nice and likely will work for a lot of people but they don't do it for me.

As for BOP being P2W I just laugh if you had a sub you wouldn't need to worry about actually purchasing the DLC and you likely wouldn't be complaining. Buying the DLC or Subbing to receive the DLC does not make the game P2W sorry you don't want to buy the DLC but want the perks of it

gen_reynard2050 · October 2015

only time will tell, the dlc BoP gears is going or not going P2W road....many mmo games make many promises, just to buy more time. and most players don't believe me something can happen until is already has. I don't blame anyone for not seeing what i see, becoz is norm. of coz, i hope, i wish, and i pray... is not going p2w road..becoz i am a ES fan too.

"the truth isn't the truth until ppl believing you.." William Bernbach.

latest?cb=20140727070807

Callous2208 · October 2015

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

So you want ZOS to not make money? Think of it like you payed for the base game wich was vet14 then you get a little demo of vet 16. They need money.

Thanks divines! At least they have sensible, rational reason for P2W. Imagine they ruined the game just for the lulz, that would be terrible!

Callous2208 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that a person who never buys a games dlc/expansions, should have access to all gear, materials and content of said expansion?

Indeed. Such principle used to be widely known as fair play; players had level playing field regradless of how much if at all they paid to the game operator. The opposite, where players are provided with advantages in exchange for cash, was called corruption.

None of what you stated here rings true. You get what you pay for has and always will be the rule. Now it seems you are suggesting that this title or any, without subscription, should provide new and free services and content for it's duration? Hate to use a generic metaphor but; this is the equivalent of buying a new car today, and expecting the dealership to offer you a newer model for free every time it is upgraded with new features, while also letting you keep the old one.

I could elaborate on your metaphor: the dealer would also change traffic rules every three months in such way that new cars would have right of way not only where roads were extended to, but also everywhere else. In other words, with use of old cars crippled retroactively, no, one is not even getting what he paid for.

And just to clarify: if ZOS made new gear available (with same effort) in existing zones, they could perhaps require payment for new zones and still stay clear of P2W. If they bind it and want to avoid P2W, then they must drop money from the equation.
But ZOS binds it precisely for that P2W aspect to increase sales (they might even design content on assumption it will be played largely for rewards only, not fun).

Callous2208 wrote: »

Fair play? Level playing field? That has nothing to do with this. By your reasoning everyone who does not currently own ESO should be given free copies with all expansions. Might I ask, how does one keep the servers up and running with this model you have suggested.

I do not care. This is market economy and for profit enterprise, not some community project. As much as what they do with profits is their thing, where they take money from is their problem. Especially if they advertise their product as buy (once) to play.

I'm with you now. You want new gear in old zones and no new content. Took me a bit to decipher but now I can see you are just against content. If somehow I've read you wrong and you do want new content, you want it to be free and paid for by some imaginary currency that falls from the sky. So, when were you forced to buy anything else besides the base game to play the base game? Last time I checked you could still do that. What is it exactly that you're asking for here? I'm starting to feel like you're just trolling.
Why would you need new and better gear if you're not going to purchase the new content to use it in? If anyone believes this is p2w in the slightest, you truly have no understanding of that term or have never seen it play out in a game.

Forestd16b14_ESO · October 2015

Pay to Win = When a company offers you to buy gear or obtain gear that will give a unfair advantage over other player who do not buy the stuff.

Yes you may argue about the new sets and all that but thing is the new set IMO don't look to good specially the new "master weapons" they only one that seems any good is the greatsword cause it deals 11K DOT over 5 seconds and even then it only works with crit rush and it's trait is weighted. Also you can get Ruby materials with out needing DLC so even the farm isn't a P2W.

Stop saying nerf stop saying L2P and stop saying P2W cause some players clearly don't know what they mean. Besides this isn't some gear ZOS is doing with the DLC it's a entire new zone with new characters new quest and new adventures of course there's gonna be new gear what RPG offers a new zone but not new gear with it ?

Scamandros · October 2015

You have to pay money to buy the game.
Without buying the game you can never make a character to access loot only accessible in game
Obtaining the game is thus pay to win.
Pls zenimax shut down all operations immediately and stop this pay to win nonsense!!!!!

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2015

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

BOP not pay to win, in any way shape or form /facepalm

Sword of a thousand truths in the store yes p2w, if I p2w I better be able to win, one shot and be a god among freeloading scrubs that's p2w. until that happens how be give this p2w crap a rest.. /sigh

Have you seen the new dropped sets? Yes, yes the new Master Weapons besides the Sword and Twohanded suck. But those new sets will be the new go to sets. But that alone doesn't make it Pay to Win.

The fact that they are not increasing the level of all the sets to VR16 to add diversity and build flexibility. On top of the fact that the new gear is great and is max level you have to drop your gear with the bonus you like cause it's VR12 or VR14 and the new powerful enchantments don't scale down.

Not to mention that enchants were lowered to make the VR16 ones stronger. At this point you pay for the chance to farm or you are at a huge disadvantage.

JamilaRaj · October 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

So you want ZOS to not make money? Think of it like you payed for the base game wich was vet14 then you get a little demo of vet 16. They need money.

Thanks divines! At least they have sensible, rational reason for P2W. Imagine they ruined the game just for the lulz, that would be terrible!

Callous2208 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that a person who never buys a games dlc/expansions, should have access to all gear, materials and content of said expansion?

Indeed. Such principle used to be widely known as fair play; players had level playing field regradless of how much if at all they paid to the game operator. The opposite, where players are provided with advantages in exchange for cash, was called corruption.

None of what you stated here rings true. You get what you pay for has and always will be the rule. Now it seems you are suggesting that this title or any, without subscription, should provide new and free services and content for it's duration? Hate to use a generic metaphor but; this is the equivalent of buying a new car today, and expecting the dealership to offer you a newer model for free every time it is upgraded with new features, while also letting you keep the old one.

I could elaborate on your metaphor: the dealer would also change traffic rules every three months in such way that new cars would have right of way not only where roads were extended to, but also everywhere else. In other words, with use of old cars crippled retroactively, no, one is not even getting what he paid for.

And just to clarify: if ZOS made new gear available (with same effort) in existing zones, they could perhaps require payment for new zones and still stay clear of P2W. If they bind it and want to avoid P2W, then they must drop money from the equation.
But ZOS binds it precisely for that P2W aspect to increase sales (they might even design content on assumption it will be played largely for rewards only, not fun).

Callous2208 wrote: »

Fair play? Level playing field? That has nothing to do with this. By your reasoning everyone who does not currently own ESO should be given free copies with all expansions. Might I ask, how does one keep the servers up and running with this model you have suggested.

I do not care. This is market economy and for profit enterprise, not some community project. As much as what they do with profits is their thing, where they take money from is their problem. Especially if they advertise their product as buy (once) to play.

I'm with you now. You want new gear in old zones and no new content. Took me a bit to decipher but now I can see you are just against content. If somehow I've read you wrong and you do want new content, you want it to be free and paid for by some imaginary currency that falls from the sky. So, when were you forced to buy anything else besides the base game to play the base game? Last time I checked you could still do that. What is it exactly that you're asking for here? I'm starting to feel like you're just trolling.
Why would you need new and better gear if you're not going to purchase the new content to use it in?

Because even if stay in old content such as Cyrodiil (I paid for btw), I will directly compete with people with that gear.
Now if ZOS decides to boost DLC sales, to make DLCs more desirable by introducing new, superior gear that is only or more easily available there, then money = gear and gear = advantage, therefore money = advantage, i.e. corruption.

Callous2208 wrote: »

If anyone believes this is p2w in the slightest, you truly have no understanding of that term or have never seen it play out in a game.

Callous2208 · October 2015

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

So you want ZOS to not make money? Think of it like you payed for the base game wich was vet14 then you get a little demo of vet 16. They need money.

Thanks divines! At least they have sensible, rational reason for P2W. Imagine they ruined the game just for the lulz, that would be terrible!

Callous2208 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that a person who never buys a games dlc/expansions, should have access to all gear, materials and content of said expansion?

Indeed. Such principle used to be widely known as fair play; players had level playing field regradless of how much if at all they paid to the game operator. The opposite, where players are provided with advantages in exchange for cash, was called corruption.

None of what you stated here rings true. You get what you pay for has and always will be the rule. Now it seems you are suggesting that this title or any, without subscription, should provide new and free services and content for it's duration? Hate to use a generic metaphor but; this is the equivalent of buying a new car today, and expecting the dealership to offer you a newer model for free every time it is upgraded with new features, while also letting you keep the old one.

I could elaborate on your metaphor: the dealer would also change traffic rules every three months in such way that new cars would have right of way not only where roads were extended to, but also everywhere else. In other words, with use of old cars crippled retroactively, no, one is not even getting what he paid for.

And just to clarify: if ZOS made new gear available (with same effort) in existing zones, they could perhaps require payment for new zones and still stay clear of P2W. If they bind it and want to avoid P2W, then they must drop money from the equation.
But ZOS binds it precisely for that P2W aspect to increase sales (they might even design content on assumption it will be played largely for rewards only, not fun).

Callous2208 wrote: »

Fair play? Level playing field? That has nothing to do with this. By your reasoning everyone who does not currently own ESO should be given free copies with all expansions. Might I ask, how does one keep the servers up and running with this model you have suggested.

I do not care. This is market economy and for profit enterprise, not some community project. As much as what they do with profits is their thing, where they take money from is their problem. Especially if they advertise their product as buy (once) to play.

I'm with you now. You want new gear in old zones and no new content. Took me a bit to decipher but now I can see you are just against content. If somehow I've read you wrong and you do want new content, you want it to be free and paid for by some imaginary currency that falls from the sky. So, when were you forced to buy anything else besides the base game to play the base game? Last time I checked you could still do that. What is it exactly that you're asking for here? I'm starting to feel like you're just trolling.
Why would you need new and better gear if you're not going to purchase the new content to use it in?

Because even if stay in old content such as Cyrodiil (I paid for btw), I will directly compete with people with that gear.
Now if ZOS decides to boost DLC sales, to make DLCs more desirable by introducing new, superior gear that is only or more easily available there, then money = gear and gear = advantage, therefore money = advantage, i.e. corruption.

Callous2208 wrote: »

If anyone believes this is p2w in the slightest, you truly have no understanding of that term or have never seen it play out in a game.

You have a skewed view about corruption and p2w that is not based in our current reality. All of these posts and you're still basically asking for either free content forever, or no new content unless it doesn't contain any new equipment that's not exactly the same as old equipment. This is ludicrous.

JamilaRaj · October 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

So you want ZOS to not make money? Think of it like you payed for the base game wich was vet14 then you get a little demo of vet 16. They need money.

Thanks divines! At least they have sensible, rational reason for P2W. Imagine they ruined the game just for the lulz, that would be terrible!

Callous2208 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that a person who never buys a games dlc/expansions, should have access to all gear, materials and content of said expansion?

Indeed. Such principle used to be widely known as fair play; players had level playing field regradless of how much if at all they paid to the game operator. The opposite, where players are provided with advantages in exchange for cash, was called corruption.

None of what you stated here rings true. You get what you pay for has and always will be the rule. Now it seems you are suggesting that this title or any, without subscription, should provide new and free services and content for it's duration? Hate to use a generic metaphor but; this is the equivalent of buying a new car today, and expecting the dealership to offer you a newer model for free every time it is upgraded with new features, while also letting you keep the old one.

I could elaborate on your metaphor: the dealer would also change traffic rules every three months in such way that new cars would have right of way not only where roads were extended to, but also everywhere else. In other words, with use of old cars crippled retroactively, no, one is not even getting what he paid for.

And just to clarify: if ZOS made new gear available (with same effort) in existing zones, they could perhaps require payment for new zones and still stay clear of P2W. If they bind it and want to avoid P2W, then they must drop money from the equation.
But ZOS binds it precisely for that P2W aspect to increase sales (they might even design content on assumption it will be played largely for rewards only, not fun).

Callous2208 wrote: »

Fair play? Level playing field? That has nothing to do with this. By your reasoning everyone who does not currently own ESO should be given free copies with all expansions. Might I ask, how does one keep the servers up and running with this model you have suggested.

I do not care. This is market economy and for profit enterprise, not some community project. As much as what they do with profits is their thing, where they take money from is their problem. Especially if they advertise their product as buy (once) to play.

I'm with you now. You want new gear in old zones and no new content. Took me a bit to decipher but now I can see you are just against content. If somehow I've read you wrong and you do want new content, you want it to be free and paid for by some imaginary currency that falls from the sky. So, when were you forced to buy anything else besides the base game to play the base game? Last time I checked you could still do that. What is it exactly that you're asking for here? I'm starting to feel like you're just trolling.
Why would you need new and better gear if you're not going to purchase the new content to use it in?

Because even if stay in old content such as Cyrodiil (I paid for btw), I will directly compete with people with that gear.
Now if ZOS decides to boost DLC sales, to make DLCs more desirable by introducing new, superior gear that is only or more easily available there, then money = gear and gear = advantage, therefore money = advantage, i.e. corruption.

Callous2208 wrote: »

If anyone believes this is p2w in the slightest, you truly have no understanding of that term or have never seen it play out in a game.

You have a skewed view about corruption and p2w that is not based in our current reality. All of these posts and you're still basically asking for either free content forever, or no new content unless it doesn't contain any new equipment that's not exactly the same as old equipment. This is ludicrous.

Nope. Our current reality is ludicrous and totally skewed by corporate greed. And players gave in. It is my duty to reveal the truth.

wayfarerx · October 2015

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

So you want ZOS to not make money? Think of it like you payed for the base game wich was vet14 then you get a little demo of vet 16. They need money.

Thanks divines! At least they have sensible, rational reason for P2W. Imagine they ruined the game just for the lulz, that would be terrible!

Callous2208 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that a person who never buys a games dlc/expansions, should have access to all gear, materials and content of said expansion?

Indeed. Such principle used to be widely known as fair play; players had level playing field regradless of how much if at all they paid to the game operator. The opposite, where players are provided with advantages in exchange for cash, was called corruption.

None of what you stated here rings true. You get what you pay for has and always will be the rule. Now it seems you are suggesting that this title or any, without subscription, should provide new and free services and content for it's duration? Hate to use a generic metaphor but; this is the equivalent of buying a new car today, and expecting the dealership to offer you a newer model for free every time it is upgraded with new features, while also letting you keep the old one.

I could elaborate on your metaphor: the dealer would also change traffic rules every three months in such way that new cars would have right of way not only where roads were extended to, but also everywhere else. In other words, with use of old cars crippled retroactively, no, one is not even getting what he paid for.

And just to clarify: if ZOS made new gear available (with same effort) in existing zones, they could perhaps require payment for new zones and still stay clear of P2W. If they bind it and want to avoid P2W, then they must drop money from the equation.
But ZOS binds it precisely for that P2W aspect to increase sales (they might even design content on assumption it will be played largely for rewards only, not fun).

Callous2208 wrote: »

Fair play? Level playing field? That has nothing to do with this. By your reasoning everyone who does not currently own ESO should be given free copies with all expansions. Might I ask, how does one keep the servers up and running with this model you have suggested.

I do not care. This is market economy and for profit enterprise, not some community project. As much as what they do with profits is their thing, where they take money from is their problem. Especially if they advertise their product as buy (once) to play.

I'm with you now. You want new gear in old zones and no new content. Took me a bit to decipher but now I can see you are just against content. If somehow I've read you wrong and you do want new content, you want it to be free and paid for by some imaginary currency that falls from the sky. So, when were you forced to buy anything else besides the base game to play the base game? Last time I checked you could still do that. What is it exactly that you're asking for here? I'm starting to feel like you're just trolling.
Why would you need new and better gear if you're not going to purchase the new content to use it in?

Because even if stay in old content such as Cyrodiil (I paid for btw), I will directly compete with people with that gear.
Now if ZOS decides to boost DLC sales, to make DLCs more desirable by introducing new, superior gear that is only or more easily available there, then money = gear and gear = advantage, therefore money = advantage, i.e. corruption.

Callous2208 wrote: »

If anyone believes this is p2w in the slightest, you truly have no understanding of that term or have never seen it play out in a game.

You have a skewed view about corruption and p2w that is not based in our current reality. All of these posts and you're still basically asking for either free content forever, or no new content unless it doesn't contain any new equipment that's not exactly the same as old equipment. This is ludicrous.

Nope. Our current reality is ludicrous and totally skewed by corporate greed. And players gave in. It is my duty to reveal the truth.

That's completely ridiculous. Pray tell, how exactly is ZOS supposed to make money and pay the developers? What business model do you envision where they can keep the lights on without giving in to "corporate greed"?

Valrien · October 2015

It amazes how few people know the definition of Pay to Win.

Personofsecrets · October 2015

Yes, P2W

Personofsecrets · October 2015

It amazes me that people don't think that those who have paid money and obtained advantage for doing so have not paid to win.