Nerf/Fix Wrecking Blow / Fix CC Immunity!

Molag_Crow · October 2015

Sausage wrote: »

This is perfect example of why there "balanced" PVP doesnt work in games, or why they never should add Arenas or Duels, player is so bad he does not know how to dodge roll, he comes to forums and writes full scale rants, devs listen, OP is happy, and the rest quit. Oh right, didnt this happen already with Focused Aim.

@Sausage They should add arenas / duels and I hope they do, I hope I go against a load of WB spammers because I actually can kill them, but the point of this topic is not "Hey guys, I can kill a Wrecking Blow spammer!" it's "Why do players think they can just use 1 button to win?"

Jabs/Sweep doesn't count, it's a long channel, it only causes the opponent to stagger on the last jab and Wrecking Blow can actually get you before your Jab/Sweep finishes to even do its CC.

Wrecking Blow is for bad players, it doesn't make me a bad player for highlighting a flawed skill where a player literally spams 1 button over and over to win.

Learn the difference, then know the difference.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

Lifecode666 wrote: »

lol. stand still, take damage, die, cry nerf nerf

It's okay, just keep using it... don't worry about those actual class abilities you have. I know you use it.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

Salmonoid wrote: »

You can literally walk away from the character spamming WB, side stepping works wonders, it can also be blocked, it's a 1.1 second channel so you also have time to dodge roll or CC them while they channel.

Anyone complaining about this skill really is just bad at PvP and thinks they should be able to stand still and not have to CC the enemy and still win some how?

Either learn how to PvP and get on with it, or don't learn how to PvP and shut up.

@Salmonoid You can't "literally walk away from the character spamming it" why lie? watch my parody video, skip to time: 2:03 ~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbICmSleqPs

See how far away I could hit that guy with WB on my lvl 20?

And I'm sorry, but a big majority of players have been complaining about this skill for a long time, and not just on the forums. The player spamming Wrecking Blow is bad at PvP. Also, if you watched my 2nd video, I did CC the enemy but clearly you've never played a magicka Templar.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO · October 2015

*** like this is precisely why I refuse to use these sorts of skills. It can't even be classified as a bread and butter skill, it's just butter, and if you eat too much of butter and nothing else you end up fat with diabetes. Your skill bar should be thought of as a well-crafted sandwich with skills that synergize well and that you just plain like. If a skill becomes used at the expense of everything else, then obviously that's a problem with balance.

While I'm not a fan of Blizzard anymore or their asinine balancing policies regarding WoW, I do remember reading recently they intentionally changed a setup of cards in their knockoff Hearthstone game where a particular card set was becoming practically the ONLY set to bother using in competitive and casual environments. That's NEVER a good thing.

I'd far rather ZOS focus on making more underused skills more appetizing, such as the effort they put into Thundering Presence, but they seem bent on buffing single morphs to be the go-to morph of any given skill and making the other morph suck on purpose.

Well you know what I'd rather use the crappy morph because it actually has utility for my playstyle. You don't eat spam out of the can and nothing else. You cook it and serve it with eggs, toast, jam, and other goodies.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

Make Wrecking Blow a slower cast time (since most use it from stealth anyway)
Give Dragon Knights a Stamina morph to Lava Whip
Tell Nightblades how to play, and show them that they have Ambush, a perfectly nice skill.

I'm going to have to get some footage of me killing WB spammers just so the uneducated can see that it's not just a skill issue. It's so easy to claim "L2P" focusing on the player speaking up about a braindead skill being spammed.

I could tell you Wrecking Blow spammers to L2P and at least use a second ability, a DoT, a Snare, SOMETHING

Molag_Crow · October 2015

statisticalanomaly13ub17_ESO wrote: »

I think I'm just gonna start taking screenshots of the recap every time I die, and post them on the forums while calling for a nerf to every skill listed.

That sounds like a great idea dewd. I also made a Crystal Frags topic on the PvP forums, and called for a-- oops, wait. I didn't mention nerf Crystal Frags on that topic...

Should I?

@statisticalanomaly13ub17_ESO

Sausage · October 2015

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

This is perfect example of why there "balanced" PVP doesnt work in games, or why they never should add Arenas or Duels, player is so bad he does not know how to dodge roll, he comes to forums and writes full scale rants, devs listen, OP is happy, and the rest quit. Oh right, didnt this happen already with Focused Aim.

@Sausage They should add arenas / duels and I hope they do, I hope I go against a load of WB spammers because I actually can kill them, but the point of this topic is not "Hey guys, I can kill a Wrecking Blow spammer!" it's "Why do players think they can just use 1 button to win?"

Jabs/Sweep doesn't count, it's a long channel, it only causes the opponent to stagger on the last jab and Wrecking Blow can actually get you before your Jab/Sweep finishes to even do its CC.

Wrecking Blow is for bad players, it doesn't make me a bad player for highlighting a flawed skill where a player literally spams 1 button over and over to win.

Learn the difference, then know the difference.

How about I press block or I heal myself buttons? This game was meant to have dodge and block useful, not useless. Soon this is standard MMORPG, where people just stand still and spam their rotations. Also I dont see whats the big difference if you press 1 or 4 buttons, only thing what takes true skill in this game is dodge and block, what from my experience, people seems to lack.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

Sausage wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

This is perfect example of why there "balanced" PVP doesnt work in games, or why they never should add Arenas or Duels, player is so bad he does not know how to dodge roll, he comes to forums and writes full scale rants, devs listen, OP is happy, and the rest quit. Oh right, didnt this happen already with Focused Aim.

@Sausage They should add arenas / duels and I hope they do, I hope I go against a load of WB spammers because I actually can kill them, but the point of this topic is not "Hey guys, I can kill a Wrecking Blow spammer!" it's "Why do players think they can just use 1 button to win?"

Jabs/Sweep doesn't count, it's a long channel, it only causes the opponent to stagger on the last jab and Wrecking Blow can actually get you before your Jab/Sweep finishes to even do its CC.

Wrecking Blow is for bad players, it doesn't make me a bad player for highlighting a flawed skill where a player literally spams 1 button over and over to win.

Learn the difference, then know the difference.

How about I press block or I heal myself buttons? This game was meant to have dodge and block useful, not useless. Soon this is standard MMORPG, where people just stand still and spam their rotations. Also I dont see whats the big difference if you press 1 or 4 buttons.

@Sausage If you don't see the difference between somebody spamming 1 button over somebody else using 5+ buttons like Puncturing Sweep, Toppling Charge, Purifying Ritual, BoL, RD (when low health), Entropy, Channeled Focus etc then you're either blind, or trolling.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

I know one thing's for sure though, most people who have no problem with WB spam have never played a Magicka Templar for long enough in PvP.

I have no beef with any class, only stupid abilities like exploited Camo Hunter and braindead WB spammers (since we (Templar's) don't have the mobility to "just run" from a WB spammer)

Sausage · October 2015

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

This is perfect example of why there "balanced" PVP doesnt work in games, or why they never should add Arenas or Duels, player is so bad he does not know how to dodge roll, he comes to forums and writes full scale rants, devs listen, OP is happy, and the rest quit. Oh right, didnt this happen already with Focused Aim.

@Sausage They should add arenas / duels and I hope they do, I hope I go against a load of WB spammers because I actually can kill them, but the point of this topic is not "Hey guys, I can kill a Wrecking Blow spammer!" it's "Why do players think they can just use 1 button to win?"

Jabs/Sweep doesn't count, it's a long channel, it only causes the opponent to stagger on the last jab and Wrecking Blow can actually get you before your Jab/Sweep finishes to even do its CC.

Wrecking Blow is for bad players, it doesn't make me a bad player for highlighting a flawed skill where a player literally spams 1 button over and over to win.

Learn the difference, then know the difference.

How about I press block or I heal myself buttons? This game was meant to have dodge and block useful, not useless. Soon this is standard MMORPG, where people just stand still and spam their rotations. Also I dont see whats the big difference if you press 1 or 4 buttons.

@Sausage If you don't see the difference between somebody spamming 1 button over somebody else using 5+ buttons like Puncturing Sweep, Toppling Charge, Purifying Ritual, BoL, RD (when low health), Entropy, Channeled Focus etc then you're either blind, or trolling.

Dude, Ive played games with 25+ buttons like Rift. I think you need to learn to play. In that video clip you didnt use dodge or block even once.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

Sausage wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

This is perfect example of why there "balanced" PVP doesnt work in games, or why they never should add Arenas or Duels, player is so bad he does not know how to dodge roll, he comes to forums and writes full scale rants, devs listen, OP is happy, and the rest quit. Oh right, didnt this happen already with Focused Aim.

@Sausage They should add arenas / duels and I hope they do, I hope I go against a load of WB spammers because I actually can kill them, but the point of this topic is not "Hey guys, I can kill a Wrecking Blow spammer!" it's "Why do players think they can just use 1 button to win?"

Jabs/Sweep doesn't count, it's a long channel, it only causes the opponent to stagger on the last jab and Wrecking Blow can actually get you before your Jab/Sweep finishes to even do its CC.

Wrecking Blow is for bad players, it doesn't make me a bad player for highlighting a flawed skill where a player literally spams 1 button over and over to win.

Learn the difference, then know the difference.

How about I press block or I heal myself buttons? This game was meant to have dodge and block useful, not useless. Soon this is standard MMORPG, where people just stand still and spam their rotations. Also I dont see whats the big difference if you press 1 or 4 buttons.

@Sausage If you don't see the difference between somebody spamming 1 button over somebody else using 5+ buttons like Puncturing Sweep, Toppling Charge, Purifying Ritual, BoL, RD (when low health), Entropy, Channeled Focus etc then you're either blind, or trolling.

Dude, Ive played games with 25+ buttons like Rift. I think you need to learn to play.

I played WoW for 7+ years, all classes, high rated Arena, BGs, RBGs, hardcore raiding, almost had my whole keyboard keybinded to each and every skill and macro that the class had to offer.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

@Sausage L2P a Magicka Templar then come back, if you're honest enough to even admit it, but I highly doubt that.

The average Magicka Templar has around 9k Stamina, 400-700 stam regen. In the video, I was undergeared but still, even with 1.2k Stam regen at the moment in my current build, I can't block more than a few hits before being vulnerable to CC.

If you played a Templar, you'd know this.. but you clearly don't.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

@Sausage

A quote that sums us Magicka Templar's up perfectly, from my other topic;

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224956/give-templars-mobility-stronger-defense#latest

Soris wrote: »

When you are surrounded for example, all you can do is just stand there or maybe run in between some pillars for LOS and mash that over-costly heal button as fast as you can until you got stunned or sneak attacked, whatever. You just can't do anything else. You cant escape, you cant block more than a second, you cant mitigate damage outside of passive mitigation, and you cant stop healing to do some dmg. You are just helpless in such scenario if your enemies are not dumb enough.
It's crippled and flawed as ***, period.

Simple as that.

teladoy · October 2015

You need more CC inmunity dude.

CyrusArya · October 2015

If someone spamming one button is spanking you, the problem is on your end. Learn to CC. Learn to block. Learn to dodge. Learnt to sidestep. L2P. Skill spammers are predictable and therefore easy to counter. If you're any good yourself that is, but your incessant whining implies otherwise. Only players who don't have a solid grasp on game mechanics will fall prey to one button spammers, such as the people in that video. Try spamming just wrecking blow in solo pvp against good players and report back on how easy it is.

Wrecking blow might be a bad match up for magicka templars. But the world doesn't revolve around you, and this game isnt balanced for every single possible match up. Its more like rock/paper/scissors. Against shield stacking sorcs for example, Wrecking Blow is one of the only skills that can reliably rip through shields before the sorcs can re apply them. You nerf WB and that counter is gone. Try to think about the bigger picture before you cry on forums.

BTW if you're campaigning so hard to nerf this skill, you better also be campaigning to get stam dks and stam sorcs a reliable class burst skill to replace it. Otherwise you clearly dont care about balance and only want nerfs to make up for your lack of skill.

Hope499 · October 2015

CrowsDescend wrote: »

"Make them use their brains."

Yeah, I said it. I made a Wrecking Blow topic ages ago to basically complain about how flawed Wrecking Blow is; how it's spammable and CC immunity sometimes doesn't even free you from its constant knockdown, so I came back... with videos, but first!

Please Note: I do not intend on naming and shaming the player(s,) as it is not exactly the fault of the player if they're allowed to continuously spam the same hard-hitting, CC-ing ability. I also know that I got wrecked by a lower level (who is scaled up to v14 in PvP, but still) and before the "L2P" replies, I am a Magicka Templar, I didn't have enough Stamina to keep breaking out/dodge rolling away (especially in the first video,) I'm in 5 light 2 heavy, I have champion points in Break free/dodge roll and the FIRST video is from before the IC patch, purely to show CC immunity not working (though it seems to be working a little better in IC when 1v1) -- The SECOND video is from inside Imperial City, live.

Edit: Outdated (pre-Imperial City,) nooby video due to IC update and my tease-tactic to stand there just to see how many times the player spams WB, although keep in mind, it still remains the same.
I'm wondering why Wrecking Blow's knockback doesn't have much diminishing returns at all, why is it so quick of a move to get off and laggy, and why CC immunity isn't always protecting one at the right time, as you can see in the first short video. (Though it's an old one) The player is able to do a total of 16 Wrecking Blows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU9PH0YLpmU

Edit: It's still a Plague in Imperial City, although this fight was decent, it is quite a shame to find that players have to resort to literally bashing 1 skill over and over for a kill, and Jab/Sweep isn't that bad in comparison due to it being a slightly long channel which can be interrupted BY wrecking blow before the last jab gets off to knock the target back.

Edit: I was in my 'PvE-ish build at the time, so I didn't have on Radiant Ward, not like that'll make much difference these days anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPSLliBkT6I

Summary (In my opinion)

Wrecking Blow is flawed. It's quite an abusive ability because of its damage, speed and knockdown combined. If I was to make this ability fair, I'd reduce the damage on the thing or at least give its knockdown a cooldown so that it doesn't keep re-applying on every swing, or make the knockdown effect a chance instead of guaranteed, or reduce the damage after it's been used like 3+ times in a row, I don't know, any would help.

CC Immunity

Sharee wrote: »

It is not CC-break immunity(the 8 second long one) that is not working correctly, but the auto-immunity you get when a CC on you expires naturally(the 5 second long one).

If you CC break, you get the immunity instantly, and it works everytime. But if you let the CC run it's course, you are supposed to automatically get 5 seconds of CC immunity, and it is this auto-immunity that is not working correctly, in that it is applied a split second too late.

CC on you expires -> slight delay -> CC imunity is gained. If you get hit by CC during that slight delay, you effectively get double-CCed.

And i believe this is not a wrecking blow issue, but rather an issue with any CC (frags, fear) if you let it run the full duration.

Man...

USE A CC AND MOVE BACK......or use better up close skills....either one.

Shad0wfire99 · October 2015

@CrowsDescend Absolutely! All deaths by any skill = NERF! Killed by a light attack? NERF!

vamp_emily · October 2015

I want to see a 3rd video. But this time take a friend, looks like you need help.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

Your opinions don't phase me

and I don't need to prove myself to any of you, especially you, @vamp_emily

Come to console, PS4, EU megaserver and duel me if you believe it's a skill issue, I won't use Phoenix (5) set bonus either.

Even use Wrecking Blow if you want. My gear and build isn't the same as seen on the videos, so your judgements are all out of date, but Wrecking Blow still could do with a nerf, purely to teach Stamina users to not repeatedly smash 1 button.

vamp_emily · October 2015

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Your opinions don't phase me and I don't need to prove myself to any of you, especially you, @vamp_emily

Come to console, PS4, EU megaserver and duel me if you believe it's a skill issue, I won't use Phoenix (5) set bonus either.

Even use Wrecking Blow if you want. My gear and build isn't the same as seen on the videos, so your judgements are all out of date, but Wrecking Blow still could do with a nerf, purely to teach Stamina users to not repeatedly smash 1 button.

[ smiles ]

I don't duel, that is obviously the problem in the video. Take someone with you and they will have a hard time smashing your face in.

I had a similar situation the other day, but my alliance was there and i walked away.

If i did duel, and used the WB I would definitely dance after I kill you. That would be a funny video to watch on this thread.

Edit:
"but Wrecking Blow still could do with a nerf, purely to teach Stamina users to not repeatedly smash 1 button."

I noticed you use jab allot, does that take some special skill or is that another repeatedly smash 1 button skill?

Molag_Crow · October 2015

vamp_emily wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Your opinions don't phase me and I don't need to prove myself to any of you, especially you, @vamp_emily

Come to console, PS4, EU megaserver and duel me if you believe it's a skill issue, I won't use Phoenix (5) set bonus either.

Even use Wrecking Blow if you want. My gear and build isn't the same as seen on the videos, so your judgements are all out of date, but Wrecking Blow still could do with a nerf, purely to teach Stamina users to not repeatedly smash 1 button.

[ smiles ]

I don't duel, that is obviously the problem in the video. Take someone with you and they will have a hard time smashing your face in.

I had a similar situation the other day, but my alliance was there and i walked away.

If i did duel, and used the WB I would definitely dance after I kill you. That would be a funny video to watch on this thread.

Heh, true... honestly though, I don't particularly have a problem killing WB spammers like I did in the first video before Imperial City, but the 2nd video, that guy was just smart because whenever I got him to 20%ish health, he'd cloak up and hide to heal.. I have a problem with the ability itself.

Even on my DK, I stopped playing him because the only useful stamina ability to go for would be WB, and it makes me feel dirty and cheap using it over and over to get results.

vamp_emily · October 2015

CrowsDescend wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Your opinions don't phase me and I don't need to prove myself to any of you, especially you, @vamp_emily

Come to console, PS4, EU megaserver and duel me if you believe it's a skill issue, I won't use Phoenix (5) set bonus either.

Even use Wrecking Blow if you want. My gear and build isn't the same as seen on the videos, so your judgements are all out of date, but Wrecking Blow still could do with a nerf, purely to teach Stamina users to not repeatedly smash 1 button.

[ smiles ]

I don't duel, that is obviously the problem in the video. Take someone with you and they will have a hard time smashing your face in.

I had a similar situation the other day, but my alliance was there and i walked away.

If i did duel, and used the WB I would definitely dance after I kill you. That would be a funny video to watch on this thread.

Heh, true... honestly though, I don't particularly have a problem killing WB spammers like I did in the first video before Imperial City, but the 2nd video, that guy was just smart because whenever I got him to 20%ish health, he'd cloak up and hide to heal.. I have a problem with the ability itself.

Even on my DK, I stopped playing him because the only useful stamina ability to go for would be WB, and it makes me feel dirty and cheap using it over and over to get results.

Well if it makes you feel better, you would beat me with your hands tied behind your back.

Do you like the Phoenix set?

Molag_Crow · October 2015

vamp_emily wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Your opinions don't phase me and I don't need to prove myself to any of you, especially you, @vamp_emily

Come to console, PS4, EU megaserver and duel me if you believe it's a skill issue, I won't use Phoenix (5) set bonus either.

Even use Wrecking Blow if you want. My gear and build isn't the same as seen on the videos, so your judgements are all out of date, but Wrecking Blow still could do with a nerf, purely to teach Stamina users to not repeatedly smash 1 button.

[ smiles ]

I don't duel, that is obviously the problem in the video. Take someone with you and they will have a hard time smashing your face in.

I had a similar situation the other day, but my alliance was there and i walked away.

If i did duel, and used the WB I would definitely dance after I kill you. That would be a funny video to watch on this thread.

Heh, true... honestly though, I don't particularly have a problem killing WB spammers like I did in the first video before Imperial City, but the 2nd video, that guy was just smart because whenever I got him to 20%ish health, he'd cloak up and hide to heal.. I have a problem with the ability itself.

Even on my DK, I stopped playing him because the only useful stamina ability to go for would be WB, and it makes me feel dirty and cheap using it over and over to get results.

Well if it makes you feel better, you would beat me with your hands tied behind your back.

Do you like the Phoenix set?

Don't put yourself down, we all have our qualities

erm... the Phoenix set bugs out a lot, so I choose to use 3 magnus, 4 phoenix

Molag_Crow · October 2015

@vamp_emily When it doesn't bug, it's great.. you can jump off a really high platform/cliff for example, "die" and come back to escape enemies. I've even killed a few players with the fire damage it does when you're brought back to life, but it's not always helpful, especially against large groups.. useless. They wait for you to come back to life and plonk you on the head so I figured (3) set with (4) bonuses work better for sustainability.

vamp_emily · October 2015

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Don't put yourself down, we all have our qualities erm... the Phoenix set bugs out a lot, so I choose to use 3 magnus, 4 phoenix

I was traveling to a keep yesterday, and got in a fight. The guy was wailing on me, I seen his health bar go down. I was thinking, "I can do this". I was totally shocked that I was able to kill the guy; but before I could celebrate my character fell over dead. Noooo!

I did get some kind of "close call" achievement for the fight being so close.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

vamp_emily wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Don't put yourself down, we all have our qualities erm... the Phoenix set bugs out a lot, so I choose to use 3 magnus, 4 phoenix

I was traveling to a keep yesterday, and got in a fight. The guy was wailing on me, I seen his health bar go down. I was thinking, "I can do this". I was totally shocked that I was able to kill the guy; but before I could celebrate my character fell over dead. Noooo!

I did get some kind of "close call" achievement for the fight being so close.

lol definitely a close call then, since I that achievement is for dying while they're on like 5% health... ouch, oh well! you'll get them again when it comes to it.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

statisticalanomaly13ub17_ESO wrote: »

@CrowsDescend Absolutely! All deaths by any skill = NERF! Killed by a light attack? NERF!

I get killed by a lot of things from Focused Aim (when I'm not aware of it to dodge/block) Crystal Frags (same case) etc etc but nothing is more stupid than Wrecking Blow.

Why should just 1 ability in the game be allowed to do insane damage, completely knock the victim flying in the air, have a very short cast time, broken range (like explained in my Apollo Creed video) does even more damage on the 2nd hit and cost so little Stamina?

It's a joke.

SirDopey · October 2015

I don't see what all the fuss is about, everyone has access to it so its not like its disadvantaging anyone...

autoexec · October 2015

That Apollo Creed video is awesome.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

autoexec wrote: »

That Apollo Creed video is awesome.

He thanks you from the dead...