bowmanz607 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

Sorcs have 3 good self heals.

• dark conversion
• Clannfear
• Twilight

ON TOP of the Dark Magic passives and Surge.
Try those out instead of stacking a 3rd shield...

Every other class that can't stack 3-4 shields got hit hard by the LA nerf.

You think those are "good self-heals?" Give me a break, dude. As someone who's played sorc since Beta, I can safely say you have no idea what you're talking about.

Guess what? DKs and Templars can stack just as many shields as Sorcs, it's just that Hardened Ward is better. We have ONE class shield, but the way you'd hear people talk about it, we have five. Every class except NBs can stack the exact same amount of shields, but unlike DKs and Templars, we have no class heal to counter a cheeseball shield breaker set that requires no resources.

How many times do we have to circle the wagon. We know it's one shield. Buts it's one shield that scales with magicka. That's the difference. Make the DKs shield scale with magicka and unnerf our whip and see what happens.

Actually one shield scaling with magica is not a problem. Every class would be able to break this in the current patch. The problem is how that classshield interacts with other shields.

For 1vX it´s insanely powerful to have harness + hardened because it split´s damage of magica and stamina classes. While your stam shield might be broken most of the time your harness is not and you´re not dying because the magica users still attack your shield.
For 1v1 fighting against two stackable shields is bullsh*t anyway. Especially with how harness is magica POSITIVE for the caster in just about any circumstance you´re using it.

Then you add healing ward on top (there´s not really a choice to using it - it´s the only burstheal available to non templars) you can protect the ward to secure the heal if you´re casting hardened (and harness) before. Again this is stupid design.

The solution would be to rework healing ward (atleast one morph) to function as a true instant healing mechanic (maybe only a selfheal). Give harness a complete revamp (it´s the only armor buff without universal usefulness for every build) and make shields not stackable.

This however would require more work than a shieldbreaker set or an ability counter they plan to implement (of which i sincerely hope it will be magica based bc magica classes are the ones that actually HAVE to fight stacked shields).

Darnathian wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

quote="kevlarto_ESO;2365689"]I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug

You do use Shield Breaker, I was killed by you or should I say -your cheesy set did work for you. Everyone who defends this set, I will be blunt here, are complete morons. I want a set that kills someone who uses Cloak. Why not, It's more annoying than shields. I want set that kills guys who selfheal or set that kills zergs. Why not .Or even better, I want a set that kills better players than me. It's annoying to be killed by more skilled player, I want something that , let's say if I close to death and he is playing smarter than me, set would proc and he would be killed instantly. ZOS i want this by next update if you please.

Your argument is flawed. Everything else you mentioned has a hard counter and many. Shields have one....only one.

This is just not true.

CC is a counter to shield stacking Sorcs. With such a limited stamina pool, a constant stream of CC will whittle it down and no sorc can stack shields if they can't break CC.

But a counter like that takes skill, unlike shield breaker where all you have to do is major defile a sorc and spam light attacks and there's nothing they can do.

if you stack sheilds then get cc, even with fear you still need to get through shields in that time, plus hope that healing ward doesnt pop. they survive that now they cant be cc for 6 seconds and they are back to full health. Also, CC can be used against everyone and all builds. So, yes you can CC a cloaker or a healer etc. However, they all also have hard counters such as defile and inner light. Whereas sheilds simply have the CC. SO, by putting in a hard counter sheilds have CC and a hard counter.

Also, a decent player is not going to die from light attack spams. If you die from light attack spams then you deserve to die. At that point skill comes into play. Now you have to adapt to what the player is doing to you. Plenty of time to CC them, use LOS etc. JUst like a nb using cloak getting marked has to adapt. Or a temp getting hit with defile etc. Light attack spamms do not work to kill a decent player becasue they are not idiots. just like mark wont kill a nb if they are decent.

i just don't agree with your logic here, I think it's flawed.

First, if you get a sorc out of Stam and can't burst him down in six seconds, that's on you, not the class shield. CC Stam draining a sorc is the best way to kill them, and proves the people who say "there's no counter to shields" have no clue what they're talking about. If Sorcs were so strong, why weren't they winning 1v1 tourneys? Because all you have to do is burn down their Stam to beat them.

"A decent player is not going to die from light attacks." So basically the Sorcs only option is to run away from shield breaker? If we have no way to defend against it, our only option is to then run, because we can't out heal that damage with a major defile and lord knows we have no class related mitigation, not to mention that all of that unresistable damage comes at zero cost to the attacker, leaving their resources untouched. I don't like running, I like repositioning but always re-engaging in even numbered fights, but I have no option to stand my ground against a cheeseball set like SB.

There are plenty of very good Sorcs complaining about this set, and they're doing so for a reason. It's not "balance," it's not a "counter," it's a lazy, no-skill attempt to balance PvP without pissing off the PvEers.

And there are good sorc's who refuse to play SORC because it is cheese mode still

There are good sorcs who play NB now because how much more powerful it is

The only thing about sorc i´d nerf apart from stackable shields is overload. The third ability bar is absurd for soloplay and apart from reflect you can´t counter it anymore if someone opens with 1000 ultimate. It´s design is the epitome of a cheesy mechanic.

Why do ppl keep com8ng back to this 8dea that healing ward is the only heal? What about bleesing? This is a very solid self heal available to all. Sure you won't get it to hit for 20k in one pop, but still a very strong reliable heal that is relatively cheap for a magika user. There is no reason to touch healing ward and make it an instant heal because you already have one. No there should not be a self heal like temp has because that is their apecialty. So you choose between and install heal that is solid and reliable or a shield that can give great heals but you have to wait for it to proc and it has a counter. Such 8s the life of jot being a twmplar. People seem to want twmplar heals with every class. This is not how it should be. You want temp heals then be a templar.

Breath of Life is smartheal, burstheal and non targetet AoE. It's fine only Templars have access to that, but not having a burstheal in the resto line is stupid. It was fine without shieldbreaker, Healing Ward was a burstheal yet not as powerful as Rushed Ceremony. Since everyone complained about shieldstacking, they could just have made it an instant burstheal, a bit weaker than it used to be. Instead they implemented a counter against it. It's as if people would have 6s to kill a Templar before his heal arrives, stupid.

There is always bleesing of protection. Instant heal. And a solid one at that.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

Sorcs have 3 good self heals.

• dark conversion
• Clannfear
• Twilight

ON TOP of the Dark Magic passives and Surge.
Try those out instead of stacking a 3rd shield...

Every other class that can't stack 3-4 shields got hit hard by the LA nerf.

You think those are "good self-heals?" Give me a break, dude. As someone who's played sorc since Beta, I can safely say you have no idea what you're talking about.

Guess what? DKs and Templars can stack just as many shields as Sorcs, it's just that Hardened Ward is better. We have ONE class shield, but the way you'd hear people talk about it, we have five. Every class except NBs can stack the exact same amount of shields, but unlike DKs and Templars, we have no class heal to counter a cheeseball shield breaker set that requires no resources.

How many times do we have to circle the wagon. We know it's one shield. Buts it's one shield that scales with magicka. That's the difference. Make the DKs shield scale with magicka and unnerf our whip and see what happens.

Actually one shield scaling with magica is not a problem. Every class would be able to break this in the current patch. The problem is how that classshield interacts with other shields.

For 1vX it´s insanely powerful to have harness + hardened because it split´s damage of magica and stamina classes. While your stam shield might be broken most of the time your harness is not and you´re not dying because the magica users still attack your shield.
For 1v1 fighting against two stackable shields is bullsh*t anyway. Especially with how harness is magica POSITIVE for the caster in just about any circumstance you´re using it.

Then you add healing ward on top (there´s not really a choice to using it - it´s the only burstheal available to non templars) you can protect the ward to secure the heal if you´re casting hardened (and harness) before. Again this is stupid design.

The solution would be to rework healing ward (atleast one morph) to function as a true instant healing mechanic (maybe only a selfheal). Give harness a complete revamp (it´s the only armor buff without universal usefulness for every build) and make shields not stackable.

This however would require more work than a shieldbreaker set or an ability counter they plan to implement (of which i sincerely hope it will be magica based bc magica classes are the ones that actually HAVE to fight stacked shields).

Darnathian wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

quote="kevlarto_ESO;2365689"]I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug

You do use Shield Breaker, I was killed by you or should I say -your cheesy set did work for you. Everyone who defends this set, I will be blunt here, are complete morons. I want a set that kills someone who uses Cloak. Why not, It's more annoying than shields. I want set that kills guys who selfheal or set that kills zergs. Why not .Or even better, I want a set that kills better players than me. It's annoying to be killed by more skilled player, I want something that , let's say if I close to death and he is playing smarter than me, set would proc and he would be killed instantly. ZOS i want this by next update if you please.

Your argument is flawed. Everything else you mentioned has a hard counter and many. Shields have one....only one.

This is just not true.

CC is a counter to shield stacking Sorcs. With such a limited stamina pool, a constant stream of CC will whittle it down and no sorc can stack shields if they can't break CC.

But a counter like that takes skill, unlike shield breaker where all you have to do is major defile a sorc and spam light attacks and there's nothing they can do.

if you stack sheilds then get cc, even with fear you still need to get through shields in that time, plus hope that healing ward doesnt pop. they survive that now they cant be cc for 6 seconds and they are back to full health. Also, CC can be used against everyone and all builds. So, yes you can CC a cloaker or a healer etc. However, they all also have hard counters such as defile and inner light. Whereas sheilds simply have the CC. SO, by putting in a hard counter sheilds have CC and a hard counter.

Also, a decent player is not going to die from light attack spams. If you die from light attack spams then you deserve to die. At that point skill comes into play. Now you have to adapt to what the player is doing to you. Plenty of time to CC them, use LOS etc. JUst like a nb using cloak getting marked has to adapt. Or a temp getting hit with defile etc. Light attack spamms do not work to kill a decent player becasue they are not idiots. just like mark wont kill a nb if they are decent.

i just don't agree with your logic here, I think it's flawed.

First, if you get a sorc out of Stam and can't burst him down in six seconds, that's on you, not the class shield. CC Stam draining a sorc is the best way to kill them, and proves the people who say "there's no counter to shields" have no clue what they're talking about. If Sorcs were so strong, why weren't they winning 1v1 tourneys? Because all you have to do is burn down their Stam to beat them.

"A decent player is not going to die from light attacks." So basically the Sorcs only option is to run away from shield breaker? If we have no way to defend against it, our only option is to then run, because we can't out heal that damage with a major defile and lord knows we have no class related mitigation, not to mention that all of that unresistable damage comes at zero cost to the attacker, leaving their resources untouched. I don't like running, I like repositioning but always re-engaging in even numbered fights, but I have no option to stand my ground against a cheeseball set like SB.

There are plenty of very good Sorcs complaining about this set, and they're doing so for a reason. It's not "balance," it's not a "counter," it's a lazy, no-skill attempt to balance PvP without pissing off the PvEers.

And there are good sorc's who refuse to play SORC because it is cheese mode still

There are good sorcs who play NB now because how much more powerful it is

The only thing about sorc i´d nerf apart from stackable shields is overload. The third ability bar is absurd for soloplay and apart from reflect you can´t counter it anymore if someone opens with 1000 ultimate. It´s design is the epitome of a cheesy mechanic.

Why do ppl keep com8ng back to this 8dea that healing ward is the only heal? What about bleesing? This is a very solid self heal available to all. Sure you won't get it to hit for 20k in one pop, but still a very strong reliable heal that is relatively cheap for a magika user. There is no reason to touch healing ward and make it an instant heal because you already have one. No there should not be a self heal like temp has because that is their apecialty. So you choose between and install heal that is solid and reliable or a shield that can give great heals but you have to wait for it to proc and it has a counter. Such 8s the life of jot being a twmplar. People seem to want twmplar heals with every class. This is not how it should be. You want temp heals then be a templar.

Breath of Life is smartheal, burstheal and non targetet AoE. It's fine only Templars have access to that, but not having a burstheal in the resto line is stupid. It was fine without shieldbreaker, Healing Ward was a burstheal yet not as powerful as Rushed Ceremony. Since everyone complained about shieldstacking, they could just have made it an instant burstheal, a bit weaker than it used to be. Instead they implemented a counter against it. It's as if people would have 6s to kill a Templar before his heal arrives, stupid.

There is always bleesing of protection. Instant heal. And a solid one at that.

It's neither burstheal nor HoT. It's a targeted AoE heal and slight buff, and yet it's the best instant heal that isn't a shield anyone but Templars have access to. And that's just sad.

What do you mean not a burst heal. Ot is in fact a burst heal. Sure it also heal people in area, but can easily be used for solo play as a burst heal.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Aga8n. Stop comparing all other heals to tem0lars. This is what makes them unique. Having far superior heals.. you can still hut 7 or 8k heals with it.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Aga8n. Stop comparing all other heals to tem0lars. This is what makes them unique. Having far superior heals.. you can still hut 7 or 8k heals with it.

Yeah, if you invest heavily into both healing done and received CP, use Ritual, get major mending etc.
As I already said before, Rushed Ceremony has always been better then Healing Ward, except for a very short period of time at the start of 1.5, when Healing Ward was bugged. It's like saying high ranged magicka damage should be something unique to Sorcerers, so let them deal twice as much damage that way then other classes can achieve. Templars will usually heal for like 150% more with BoL than Sorcs with BoR, makes no sense.

No it is like saying harding ward is unique to sorcerers and you should not compare other shields to that shield.

I get 10% increased healing through champ points. Which is 5% into each of the respective constellations. That is 20 champ points to get. With that I am able to get about 6k from blessing. That is a pretty solid burst heal with minimal effort to get. That is with slightly above avg spell damage and a relatively low magika pool since I am a bosmer.

N9w since you want to compare to a temp lets. A templar cannot cast their heal and have it heal them for full health. At best they have to cast it twice to be back up. (We are assuming a 20k standard health pool). A low end blessing needs to be cast three times to get back up. You are talking the difference of one cast. One cast is what makes the difference between a templar and everyone else. By giving a stronger burst heal you are making it so there is no difference in the amount of casts.