Ideas on Fixing PvP

Jeuynh · October 2015

PvP, as we know it, is getting less fun by the day. People are complaining about zergs, lag, the Imperial City, population, ect. What are some things you would do to change PvP? Here are a couple of changes that I encourage.

Threads:
- http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/220251/idea-on-how-to-improve-pvp-on-na-pc/p1
@IxSTALKERxI has a great idea about how to keep population even throughout the campaigns. I have nothing else to say about this.

- http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224505/david-v-goliath-why-eso-will-always-be-a-numbers-game/p1
@Jules has this thread about why huge groups always have their way. There are some great suggestions on how to prevent this.

- http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224620/remember-the-two-things-that-killed-cyrodiil-performance
This thread has comments and ideas on what constructed the lag that we have now.

- http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224997/myth-aoe-cap
An insane amount of work has been put into this thread. Read as @Taonnor explains why AoE caps should be removed.

Changes:
- Somehow fix the FPS and ping lag that occurs in big fights.
Lag no longer makes PvP fun. The game was advertised as huge battles between the three alliances yet whenever they clash, lag ensues. The skill lag is not seen as much but now the FPS and latency issues are here.

- Keep stealth-resurrection.
It allows for small groups to have some chance against huge groups.

- Make it so that smaller groups have some chance of beating sheer numbers.
It just has to be some chance since, obviously, numbers should have an advantage, but a zerg of "bad" people dominating a group of decent people shouldn't always be.

Like many threads, not everyone will agree from time to time, but please keep the discussion on topic. Discuss.

EDIT: I added another thread.

Jeuynh · October 2015

Here are a couple more changes I remembered from before.

- Make the ultimate gain system a dynamic one; not the one that we have now.
Back in 1.5, the ultimate gain was heavily based off of criticals. The new one should be based off of DPS, healing, or damage mitigated. It should not be as fast as in 1.5, however.

- Bug fixes need to be made immediately.
Bugs are annoying. Whether it benefits you or the opponent, it is either annoying to you or him/her. There is a bug going on now that gives you a huge movement speed jump...? It sometimes make people FLY away from the battle and end up dying due to fall damage. There are also other bugs that teleport you on mountains, inside mountains, ect. There are plenty of other bugs, but all of these make the game fustrating to play.

Manoekin · October 2015

Jeuynh wrote: »

Here are a couple more changes I remembered from before.

- [i]Make the ultimate gain system a dynamic one; not the one that we have now.[/i]
Back in 1.5, the ultimate gain was heavily based off of criticals. The new one should be based off of DPS, healing, or damage mitigated. It should not be as fast as in 1.5, however.

I remember it being only 1ulti per heal/damage done at that point. I believe ZOS changed what you mention early on because crits gave 2-3 ulti instead of 1 for non-crits which made crit the clear far and away best stat in the game. It was a pretty big nonfactor in pvp anyway once everyone was running 500 impen. The biggest issue for ulti gen 1.5 and before was that it was obtainable outside of combat. However, now we have a mechanic that makes it so we can only get ulti in combat. This begs the question of why can't we have dynamic ult gen back with this mechanic in place?

Jeuynh · October 2015

I've never thought of that! I think that the dynamic ultimate gain should come back now that it isn't obtainable outside combat (excluding the bugs/exploits). I do think that if it did come back, it'll need to be tweaked to the point where it isn't as fast as it was back in 1.5.

Erro · October 2015

personally, i don't think there is a need to "fix" PvP, just revitalize it.
pvp in this game, and i'm thinking the combat model, is hands above other games.
there are performance and exploit issues, of course.
but those will be handled in time.
( devs probly have a roadmap/backlog report miles long in whatever tool they use to track them )

some things that might revitalize:
a. isolate Imperial City to remove the pop impact on the rest of Cyrodiil.
b. expand or modify the AP rewards system to penalize zergs and reward "faction-action".
c. remove all Emperor buffs ( those players are buff enuff ) OR give corresponding Emperor-Slayer buffs.
("Quintus, the Emperor has been SLAIN!")

and something for the wish-list:
z. allow those IC xiv-beasties to escape into Cyrodiil proper once a month, make all factions deal with it.
( and maybe that is a group of devs driving for fun and excitement, y'know cuz they need that )

Kymee · October 2015

I agree, PVP is awesome when it is awesome which is about 3 out of the 7 days in the week. It has lots of potential and is on the right track. Keep up the good work and add a few more achievements for PVP while your at it. I agree with Erro's post take what you have and tweek it.

kevlarto_ESO · October 2015

Erro wrote: »

personally, i don't think there is a need to "fix" PvP, just revitalize it.
pvp in this game, and i'm thinking the combat model, is hands above other games.
there are performance and exploit issues, of course.
but those will be handled in time.
( devs probly have a roadmap/backlog report miles long in whatever tool they use to track them )

some things that might revitalize:
a. isolate Imperial City to remove the pop impact on the rest of Cyrodiil.
b. expand or modify the AP rewards system to penalize zergs and reward "faction-action".
c. remove all Emperor buffs ( those players are buff enuff ) OR give corresponding Emperor-Slayer buffs.
("Quintus, the Emperor has been SLAIN!")

and something for the wish-list:
z. allow those IC xiv-beasties to escape into Cyrodiil proper once a month, make all factions deal with it.
( and maybe that is a group of devs driving for fun and excitement, y'know cuz they need that )

Good ideas there, why is there no achievements for doing anything with an EDLER SCROLL, since this is the Elder Scrolls, could expand the kill 20 to include rez 20, close the exploitable broken game mechanics would be big step forward to making pvp more fun, I guess we will have to see what they do down the road.

ThyIronFist · October 2015

I was looking forward to the Imperial City... but a few weeks in; crashes, 50 minute loading screens, lag, 10-20 fps and class balance being pretty much non-existant now... I've given up and there isn't really anything in the future coming out that would make me consider playing again.

I don't think at this point the PvP is saveable anymore, since I stopped playing a lot of my friends have given up as well and some are on the verge of quitting. Imagine how great Cyrodiil could have been with some different changes and some changes being reverted, how fun it could have been with more objectives, how fun the Imperial City could have been if it had actual OBJECTIVES instead of a mindless TVS grind and Team Deathmatch. Imagine how great PvP could have been if it didn't ran at 10 fps and 999+ ping all the time. Imagine if there were battlegrounds...

What will be the next PvP update? Nobody knows, if there'll ever be one, that is. You will get Orsinium, which will probably be another PvE grindfest, then what? Spellcrafting... then Murkmire? Say it as you like but the PC version of this game is nothing more than a console beta test and console sellout.

It's been known for a long long time now that the devs don't give a single damn about PvP or whatever that is left of the community, don't even try to deny it.

I'll quote some examples; when Forward Camps were instantly removed from the game they said that they were unsure when or if they would return and that they were also looking on how to improve them and what not. They said that 2 months ago, 4 months ago, 6 months ago... you know how it goes. Long story short: They're not doing anything at all about them.

It's the same with the god-awful performance; 1.5 years ago... we are looking into it... 1 year ago... we are looking into it... 10 months ago... we are looking into it... 8 months ago... we are looking into these issues... 6 months ago... we are looking into these issues.

And then we have all the nerfs, removal of valid zergbusting tactics, the entire AoE cap debacle, exploits, performance issues, the dynamic ultimate removal... I can rant forever. But never, ever have I been treated this poorly by a company and quite frankly I don't know why you guys still bother.

Teargrants · October 2015

ThyIronFist wrote: »

But never, ever have I been treated this poorly by a company and quite frankly I don't know why you guys still bother.

But if I stop giving ZOS $$$ the server hamster will starve and die!

Erro · October 2015

i wonder what would happen to pvp, if zos changed the ap meta?

instead of take brindle farm: take 5 resources.
instead of farm 20 enemy dks: dethrone the emperor.
instead of a d-tick for riding into the keep at the end of battle: ummm... nevermind, i like that one.