I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug

quote="kevlarto_ESO;2365689"]I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug[/quote]
You do use Shield Breaker, I was killed by you or should I say -your cheesy set did work for you. Everyone who defends this set, I will be blunt here, are complete morons. I want a set that kills someone who uses Cloak. Why not, It's more annoying than shields. I want set that kills guys who selfheal or set that kills zergs. Why not .Or even better, I want a set that kills better players than me. It's annoying to be killed by more skilled player, I want something that , let's say if I close to death and he is playing smarter than me, set would proc and he would be killed instantly. ZOS i want this by next update if you please.

diskiukas wrote: »

quote="kevlarto_ESO;2365689"]I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug

You do use Shield Breaker, I was killed by you or should I say -your cheesy set did work for you. Everyone who defends this set, I will be blunt here, are complete morons. I want a set that kills someone who uses Cloak. Why not, It's more annoying than shields. I want set that kills guys who selfheal or set that kills zergs. Why not .Or even better, I want a set that kills better players than me. It's annoying to be killed by more skilled player, I want something that , let's say if I close to death and he is playing smarter than me, set would proc and he would be killed instantly. ZOS i want this by next update if you please.
[/quote]

Your argument is flawed. Everything else you mentioned has a hard counter and many. Shields have one....only one.

diskiukas wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

quote="kevlarto_ESO;2365689"]I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug

You do use Shield Breaker, I was killed by you or should I say -your cheesy set did work for you. Everyone who defends this set, I will be blunt here, are complete morons. I want a set that kills someone who uses Cloak. Why not, It's more annoying than shields. I want set that kills guys who selfheal or set that kills zergs. Why not .Or even better, I want a set that kills better players than me. It's annoying to be killed by more skilled player, I want something that , let's say if I close to death and he is playing smarter than me, set would proc and he would be killed instantly. ZOS i want this by next update if you please.

Your argument is flawed. Everything else you mentioned has a hard counter and many. Shields have one....only one.

I wanna hear what counter do I have against smarter and better player?
[/quote]

I font even know what you mean. Iwhat illogical Argent r u trying to make? You do realize that a player using shield breaker will still lose to a more skilled player right? It happens every day.

diskiukas wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

quote="kevlarto_ESO;2365689"]I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug

You do use Shield Breaker, I was killed by you or should I say -your cheesy set did work for you. Everyone who defends this set, I will be blunt here, are complete morons. I want a set that kills someone who uses Cloak. Why not, It's more annoying than shields. I want set that kills guys who selfheal or set that kills zergs. Why not .Or even better, I want a set that kills better players than me. It's annoying to be killed by more skilled player, I want something that , let's say if I close to death and he is playing smarter than me, set would proc and he would be killed instantly. ZOS i want this by next update if you please.

Your argument is flawed. Everything else you mentioned has a hard counter and many. Shields have one....only one.

I wanna hear what counter do I have against smarter and better player?

I font even know what you mean. Iwhat illogical Argent r u trying to make? You do realize that a player using shield breaker will still lose to a more skilled player right? It happens every day.

I counter one illogical argument ( shield breaker is fine) with another. If they (ZOS) make stuff like Shield Breaker, to satisfy lazy players like yourself ( there are counters to shields as to everything else) , I am sure they can satisfy even more players by making stuff to counter all those things I said and more. I mean, wont you like to be unbeatable? It's important to everyone's ego, so yeah I want to be best and I want set to achieve that. Here is another illogical suggestion for you.Why not?[/quote]

lmao. lazy player??? this set operates as an execute in practice. simply spamming light attacks will not kill your target it they are even halfway copetent at fighting. Against a competent player, it simply operates as an execute to a sheild stacker that gives themself another full damage bar that is equivalent to health while they wait for healing ward to pop and are actually back at full health. This prevents peope=ple on the brink of death from being able to get back to full strength. Tjhat is what makes shields so OP. Now, this set executes those players and does not allow that to happen. it is no different than a player using executioner or killers blade etc. on another player. Now there is an execute for shields which was not possible before.

There is already hard counters to everything you have stated. Cloak, heals, etc. Putting in a ridiclous argument like "where is the counter for a skilled player?" is ridiculous. Now your simply trolling. However, let me play ball with you. A counter for skilled players is the champion system. If you grind out more points then another person, then you can counter their skill. So, now there is a counter for everything including skill and shields.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

quote="kevlarto_ESO;2365689"]I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug

You do use Shield Breaker, I was killed by you or should I say -your cheesy set did work for you. Everyone who defends this set, I will be blunt here, are complete morons. I want a set that kills someone who uses Cloak. Why not, It's more annoying than shields. I want set that kills guys who selfheal or set that kills zergs. Why not .Or even better, I want a set that kills better players than me. It's annoying to be killed by more skilled player, I want something that , let's say if I close to death and he is playing smarter than me, set would proc and he would be killed instantly. ZOS i want this by next update if you please.

Your argument is flawed. Everything else you mentioned has a hard counter and many. Shields have one....only one.

This is just not true.

CC is a counter to shield stacking Sorcs. With such a limited stamina pool, a constant stream of CC will whittle it down and no sorc can stack shields if they can't break CC.

But a counter like that takes skill, unlike shield breaker where all you have to do is major defile a sorc and spam light attacks and there's nothing they can do.[/quote]

if you stack sheilds then get cc, even with fear you still need to get through shields in that time, plus hope that healing ward doesnt pop. they survive that now they cant be cc for 6 seconds and they are back to full health. Also, CC can be used against everyone and all builds. So, yes you can CC a cloaker or a healer etc. However, they all also have hard counters such as defile and inner light. Whereas sheilds simply have the CC. SO, by putting in a hard counter sheilds have CC and a hard counter.

Also, a decent player is not going to die from light attack spams. If you die from light attack spams then you deserve to die. At that point skill comes into play. Now you have to adapt to what the player is doing to you. Plenty of time to CC them, use LOS etc. JUst like a nb using cloak getting marked has to adapt. Or a temp getting hit with defile etc. Light attack spamms do not work to kill a decent player becasue they are not idiots. just like mark wont kill a nb if they are decent.

diskiukas wrote: »

Here is scenario. Lets say me sorc and 2-3 others trying to take resource that enemy just captured. They have 4 players, besides NPC. 2 of them are on the ground magicka ranged users and 2 of them in the tower spamming light attacks using Shield Breaker. What do I have to do, I do not use shields , I will die against ranged attacks or NPC attacks, if I use shields I will die against Shield Breaker users. Should i turn around and go look for fight somewhere else. Should I spam a zone "LF pocket healer". Should I reroll NB? What do I counter this with and no, siege wont do enough damage if you know how to purge and self heal.Or should I bring zerg then. The point is, it's free card to go and kill mainly sorcs and I cannot understand why I cannot get a free card go and kill cloak using NB? I find it annoying and I wanna easier counter than potions and skills that mess up my bar.

Lets look at this from another perspective. Should a team of 2-3 be able to take on 4 players with npc support? I think not. But lets forget about the fact that this allows sorcs not to tank a small group of people while putting out massive dps. You position yourself correctly. You stay out of range of the players spamming light attacks and take out the npcs on the pin or other players on the pin while the other players in your group fight back at the players on the tower. What you have described here is exactly the point of the set. sheild stackers having a weakness now rather than having no weakness. You can no longer go charging in without any consequences. Also, dont rely on sheilds at that point. Slot blessing or something and fight that way. drop a curse, heal. drop frag heal etc. you corrdinate with your group and figure out how to counter attack. AGain stay at range while the other 2 members get closer. maybe your the one who drops some seige to hit the pin then. This situation is the equavlient to saying my nb is facing another nb who marked me from the resource...what am i suppose to do now? you adapt and figure out the best way to approach the situation. Now you are required to think logically and play a chess match with the other players.

you want an easier counter? you dont want to mess up your bar? really???? You have a plethra of counters to choose from. it is your fault if you dont want to "mess up your bar" so that you have a counter to a playstyle. so then your weak to that playstyle. A player still has to choose to dump plenty of other bonus sets in order to counter one build with this set. This "messes up people armor sets" jsut like slotting a skill would "mess up a bar." the difference?....you can have 10 skills, but only one 5 pc set armor bonus. So a player who slots a skill to counter something can still be viable and use other skills to counter other builds. A person that uses shield breaker can only use shield breaker.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

quote="kevlarto_ESO;2365689"]I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug

You do use Shield Breaker, I was killed by you or should I say -your cheesy set did work for you. Everyone who defends this set, I will be blunt here, are complete morons. I want a set that kills someone who uses Cloak. Why not, It's more annoying than shields. I want set that kills guys who selfheal or set that kills zergs. Why not .Or even better, I want a set that kills better players than me. It's annoying to be killed by more skilled player, I want something that , let's say if I close to death and he is playing smarter than me, set would proc and he would be killed instantly. ZOS i want this by next update if you please.

Your argument is flawed. Everything else you mentioned has a hard counter and many. Shields have one....only one.

This is just not true.

CC is a counter to shield stacking Sorcs. With such a limited stamina pool, a constant stream of CC will whittle it down and no sorc can stack shields if they can't break CC.

But a counter like that takes skill, unlike shield breaker where all you have to do is major defile a sorc and spam light attacks and there's nothing they can do.

if you stack sheilds then get cc, even with fear you still need to get through shields in that time, plus hope that healing ward doesnt pop. they survive that now they cant be cc for 6 seconds and they are back to full health. Also, CC can be used against everyone and all builds. So, yes you can CC a cloaker or a healer etc. However, they all also have hard counters such as defile and inner light. Whereas sheilds simply have the CC. SO, by putting in a hard counter sheilds have CC and a hard counter.

Also, a decent player is not going to die from light attack spams. If you die from light attack spams then you deserve to die. At that point skill comes into play. Now you have to adapt to what the player is doing to you. Plenty of time to CC them, use LOS etc. JUst like a nb using cloak getting marked has to adapt. Or a temp getting hit with defile etc. Light attack spamms do not work to kill a decent player becasue they are not idiots. just like mark wont kill a nb if they are decent.

i just don't agree with your logic here, I think it's flawed.

First, if you get a sorc out of Stam and can't burst him down in six seconds, that's on you, not the class shield. CC Stam draining a sorc is the best way to kill them, and proves the people who say "there's no counter to shields" have no clue what they're talking about. If Sorcs were so strong, why weren't they winning 1v1 tourneys? Because all you have to do is burn down their Stam to beat them.

"A decent player is not going to die from light attacks." So basically the Sorcs only option is to run away from shield breaker? If we have no way to defend against it, our only option is to then run, because we can't out heal that damage with a major defile and lord knows we have no class related mitigation, not to mention that all of that unresistable damage comes at zero cost to the attacker, leaving their resources untouched. I don't like running, I like repositioning but always re-engaging in even numbered fights, but I have no option to stand my ground against a cheeseball set like SB.

There are plenty of very good Sorcs complaining about this set, and they're doing so for a reason. It's not "balance," it's not a "counter," it's a lazy, no-skill attempt to balance PvP without pissing off the PvEers.

8 times out of ten sorcs have there shields up with no downtime. so, although you may drain them out of stamina you still have to burst through their shields and their health in the 6 seconds which is difficult even with highburst with the damage reduction. Also, draining stamina is not a counter to shields. It is a way to drain resources which has nothing to do with stacking shields. You can use this logic with anything. Drain anyone of stamina and you can burst them down.

ALso, running is no the only option. cc the other player and keep pressure on them to force them in a defensive position. reposition yourself with streak. LOS them while you get your barrings to retailiate. I see this happen on a regular basis when a player realizes another player is using SB on them. This requires awarness and counter moves. Again, much like a NB who has been revealed.

Also, a player who is simply spamming the attack is only doing 2k damage as opposed to the 5k-7k they do from normal attacks. not to mention, you can not use 1v1 tourneys to justify why a class is not OP. when it comes down to 1v1 it is all about moves and counter moves. Being able to outplay your opponent and skill. Saying a sorc is not strong b/c they dont win tourneys does not speak to the class but the skill of players involved. Also, do you know of every single tourney? i doubt it.

so is sheild stacking not suppose to have a counter? How is sheild stacking balanced? all i hear is sorcs complaining about a counter against them and yell nerf. welcome to the world of hard counters the rest of the classes deal with. Again, it is one type of build that is built to counter another build. its use is specific and limited.

and i am sorry but the people i face on a daily basis play very well against this set and simply spamming light attacks wil get you killed in seconds. when playing these players this set is only useful as an execute. However, I must play against much better sorcs then those on the forums if no one else sees this. I find this unlikely.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

quote="kevlarto_ESO;2365689"]I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug

You do use Shield Breaker, I was killed by you or should I say -your cheesy set did work for you. Everyone who defends this set, I will be blunt here, are complete morons. I want a set that kills someone who uses Cloak. Why not, It's more annoying than shields. I want set that kills guys who selfheal or set that kills zergs. Why not .Or even better, I want a set that kills better players than me. It's annoying to be killed by more skilled player, I want something that , let's say if I close to death and he is playing smarter than me, set would proc and he would be killed instantly. ZOS i want this by next update if you please.

Your argument is flawed. Everything else you mentioned has a hard counter and many. Shields have one....only one.

This is just not true.

CC is a counter to shield stacking Sorcs. With such a limited stamina pool, a constant stream of CC will whittle it down and no sorc can stack shields if they can't break CC.

But a counter like that takes skill, unlike shield breaker where all you have to do is major defile a sorc and spam light attacks and there's nothing they can do.

if you stack sheilds then get cc, even with fear you still need to get through shields in that time, plus hope that healing ward doesnt pop. they survive that now they cant be cc for 6 seconds and they are back to full health. Also, CC can be used against everyone and all builds. So, yes you can CC a cloaker or a healer etc. However, they all also have hard counters such as defile and inner light. Whereas sheilds simply have the CC. SO, by putting in a hard counter sheilds have CC and a hard counter.

Also, a decent player is not going to die from light attack spams. If you die from light attack spams then you deserve to die. At that point skill comes into play. Now you have to adapt to what the player is doing to you. Plenty of time to CC them, use LOS etc. JUst like a nb using cloak getting marked has to adapt. Or a temp getting hit with defile etc. Light attack spamms do not work to kill a decent player becasue they are not idiots. just like mark wont kill a nb if they are decent.

i just don't agree with your logic here, I think it's flawed.

First, if you get a sorc out of Stam and can't burst him down in six seconds, that's on you, not the class shield. CC Stam draining a sorc is the best way to kill them, and proves the people who say "there's no counter to shields" have no clue what they're talking about. If Sorcs were so strong, why weren't they winning 1v1 tourneys? Because all you have to do is burn down their Stam to beat them.

"A decent player is not going to die from light attacks." So basically the Sorcs only option is to run away from shield breaker? If we have no way to defend against it, our only option is to then run, because we can't out heal that damage with a major defile and lord knows we have no class related mitigation, not to mention that all of that unresistable damage comes at zero cost to the attacker, leaving their resources untouched. I don't like running, I like repositioning but always re-engaging in even numbered fights, but I have no option to stand my ground against a cheeseball set like SB.

There are plenty of very good Sorcs complaining about this set, and they're doing so for a reason. It's not "balance," it's not a "counter," it's a lazy, no-skill attempt to balance PvP without pissing off the PvEers.

8 times out of ten sorcs have there shields up with no downtime. so, although you may drain them out of stamina you still have to burst through their shields and their health in the 6 seconds which is difficult even with highburst with the damage reduction. Also, draining stamina is not a counter to shields. It is a way to drain resources which has nothing to do with stacking shields. You can use this logic with anything. Drain anyone of stamina and you can burst them down.

ALso, running is no the only option. cc the other player and keep pressure on them to force them in a defensive position. reposition yourself with streak. LOS them while you get your barrings to retailiate. I see this happen on a regular basis when a player realizes another player is using SB on them. This requires awarness and counter moves. Again, much like a NB who has been revealed.

Also, a player who is simply spamming the attack is only doing 2k damage as opposed to the 5k-7k they do from normal attacks. not to mention, you can not use 1v1 tourneys to justify why a class is not OP. when it comes down to 1v1 it is all about moves and counter moves. Being able to outplay your opponent and skill. Saying a sorc is not strong b/c they dont win tourneys does not speak to the class but the skill of players involved. Also, do you know of every single tourney? i doubt it.

so is sheild stacking not suppose to have a counter? How is sheild stacking balanced? all i hear is sorcs complaining about a counter against them and yell nerf. welcome to the world of hard counters the rest of the classes deal with. Again, it is one type of build that is built to counter another build. its use is specific and limited.

and i am sorry but the people i face on a daily basis play very well against this set and simply spamming light attacks wil get you killed in seconds. when playing these players this set is only useful as an execute. However, I must play against much better sorcs then those on the forums if no one else sees this. I find this unlikely.

I'm sorry but you keep referring to "shield stacking" as a stamina user. Shield Stacking has no bearing in your argument as the second shield a sorcerer would use is either Dampen/Harness Magicka.... which does not mitigate physical attacks. You are at most dealing with 2 shields (Healing Ward) and usually just 1 shield (Class shield - Hardened Ward). The reason people get so mad about these 20K+ shields is because they see the sorc cast healing ward at low health giving them an instantly large shield and cast Hardened on top of it to protect it so they get the benefit of a full heal when it expires 3 secs later. THAT is the bad game design. I will still say that I do not agree with SB in it's current form, but shields do need to be balanced or revamped. However no stamina user should be complaining about sorc shield stacking at all... if anyone has the right to complain it would be magicka users who do go through 2 shields usually and 3 if they manage to make a dent in the health bar. Honestly, if anything, SB should have gone to a magicka user and not stamina.

how is this more of a magika user problem then a stam user? it is an issue for all.

Valindor Magnus wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

quote="kevlarto_ESO;2365689"]I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug

You do use Shield Breaker, I was killed by you or should I say -your cheesy set did work for you. Everyone who defends this set, I will be blunt here, are complete morons. I want a set that kills someone who uses Cloak. Why not, It's more annoying than shields. I want set that kills guys who selfheal or set that kills zergs. Why not .Or even better, I want a set that kills better players than me. It's annoying to be killed by more skilled player, I want something that , let's say if I close to death and he is playing smarter than me, set would proc and he would be killed instantly. ZOS i want this by next update if you please.

Your argument is flawed. Everything else you mentioned has a hard counter and many. Shields have one....only one.

This is just not true.

CC is a counter to shield stacking Sorcs. With such a limited stamina pool, a constant stream of CC will whittle it down and no sorc can stack shields if they can't break CC.

But a counter like that takes skill, unlike shield breaker where all you have to do is major defile a sorc and spam light attacks and there's nothing they can do.

if you stack sheilds then get cc, even with fear you still need to get through shields in that time, plus hope that healing ward doesnt pop. they survive that now they cant be cc for 6 seconds and they are back to full health. Also, CC can be used against everyone and all builds. So, yes you can CC a cloaker or a healer etc. However, they all also have hard counters such as defile and inner light. Whereas sheilds simply have the CC. SO, by putting in a hard counter sheilds have CC and a hard counter.

Also, a decent player is not going to die from light attack spams. If you die from light attack spams then you deserve to die. At that point skill comes into play. Now you have to adapt to what the player is doing to you. Plenty of time to CC them, use LOS etc. JUst like a nb using cloak getting marked has to adapt. Or a temp getting hit with defile etc. Light attack spamms do not work to kill a decent player becasue they are not idiots. just like mark wont kill a nb if they are decent.

i just don't agree with your logic here, I think it's flawed.

First, if you get a sorc out of Stam and can't burst him down in six seconds, that's on you, not the class shield. CC Stam draining a sorc is the best way to kill them, and proves the people who say "there's no counter to shields" have no clue what they're talking about. If Sorcs were so strong, why weren't they winning 1v1 tourneys? Because all you have to do is burn down their Stam to beat them.

"A decent player is not going to die from light attacks." So basically the Sorcs only option is to run away from shield breaker? If we have no way to defend against it, our only option is to then run, because we can't out heal that damage with a major defile and lord knows we have no class related mitigation, not to mention that all of that unresistable damage comes at zero cost to the attacker, leaving their resources untouched. I don't like running, I like repositioning but always re-engaging in even numbered fights, but I have no option to stand my ground against a cheeseball set like SB.

There are plenty of very good Sorcs complaining about this set, and they're doing so for a reason. It's not "balance," it's not a "counter," it's a lazy, no-skill attempt to balance PvP without pissing off the PvEers.

8 times out of ten sorcs have there shields up with no downtime. so, although you may drain them out of stamina you still have to burst through their shields and their health in the 6 seconds which is difficult even with highburst with the damage reduction. Also, draining stamina is not a counter to shields. It is a way to drain resources which has nothing to do with stacking shields. You can use this logic with anything. Drain anyone of stamina and you can burst them down.

ALso, running is no the only option. cc the other player and keep pressure on them to force them in a defensive position. reposition yourself with streak. LOS them while you get your barrings to retailiate. I see this happen on a regular basis when a player realizes another player is using SB on them. This requires awarness and counter moves. Again, much like a NB who has been revealed.

Also, a player who is simply spamming the attack is only doing 2k damage as opposed to the 5k-7k they do from normal attacks. not to mention, you can not use 1v1 tourneys to justify why a class is not OP. when it comes down to 1v1 it is all about moves and counter moves. Being able to outplay your opponent and skill. Saying a sorc is not strong b/c they dont win tourneys does not speak to the class but the skill of players involved. Also, do you know of every single tourney? i doubt it.

so is sheild stacking not suppose to have a counter? How is sheild stacking balanced? all i hear is sorcs complaining about a counter against them and yell nerf. welcome to the world of hard counters the rest of the classes deal with. Again, it is one type of build that is built to counter another build. its use is specific and limited.

and i am sorry but the people i face on a daily basis play very well against this set and simply spamming light attacks wil get you killed in seconds. when playing these players this set is only useful as an execute. However, I must play against much better sorcs then those on the forums if no one else sees this. I find this unlikely.

I'm sorry but you keep referring to "shield stacking" as a stamina user. Shield Stacking has no bearing in your argument as the second shield a sorcerer would use is either Dampen/Harness Magicka.... which does not mitigate physical attacks. You are at most dealing with 2 shields (Healing Ward) and usually just 1 shield (Class shield - Hardened Ward). The reason people get so mad about these 20K+ shields is because they see the sorc cast healing ward at low health giving them an instantly large shield and cast Hardened on top of it to protect it so they get the benefit of a full heal when it expires 3 secs later. THAT is the bad game design. I will still say that I do not agree with SB in it's current form, but shields do need to be balanced or revamped. However no stamina user should be complaining about sorc shield stacking at all... if anyone has the right to complain it would be magicka users who do go through 2 shields usually and 3 if they manage to make a dent in the health bar. Honestly, if anything, SB should have gone to a magicka user and not stamina.

how is this more of a magika user problem then a stam user? it is an issue for all.

Because Magicka users have a harder time getting past shield stacking than stamina users do. Stam users don't have to get through harness Magicka.

i see this is a good point. (side note: i do not think this set should proc on harness. this is ridiculous because you are simply adding 2k damage to your attacks through weaving.) perhaps it should be crafted then

Valindor Magnus wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Valindor Magnus wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

quote="kevlarto_ESO;2365689"]I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug

You do use Shield Breaker, I was killed by you or should I say -your cheesy set did work for you. Everyone who defends this set, I will be blunt here, are complete morons. I want a set that kills someone who uses Cloak. Why not, It's more annoying than shields. I want set that kills guys who selfheal or set that kills zergs. Why not .Or even better, I want a set that kills better players than me. It's annoying to be killed by more skilled player, I want something that , let's say if I close to death and he is playing smarter than me, set would proc and he would be killed instantly. ZOS i want this by next update if you please.

Your argument is flawed. Everything else you mentioned has a hard counter and many. Shields have one....only one.

This is just not true.

CC is a counter to shield stacking Sorcs. With such a limited stamina pool, a constant stream of CC will whittle it down and no sorc can stack shields if they can't break CC.

But a counter like that takes skill, unlike shield breaker where all you have to do is major defile a sorc and spam light attacks and there's nothing they can do.

if you stack sheilds then get cc, even with fear you still need to get through shields in that time, plus hope that healing ward doesnt pop. they survive that now they cant be cc for 6 seconds and they are back to full health. Also, CC can be used against everyone and all builds. So, yes you can CC a cloaker or a healer etc. However, they all also have hard counters such as defile and inner light. Whereas sheilds simply have the CC. SO, by putting in a hard counter sheilds have CC and a hard counter.

Also, a decent player is not going to die from light attack spams. If you die from light attack spams then you deserve to die. At that point skill comes into play. Now you have to adapt to what the player is doing to you. Plenty of time to CC them, use LOS etc. JUst like a nb using cloak getting marked has to adapt. Or a temp getting hit with defile etc. Light attack spamms do not work to kill a decent player becasue they are not idiots. just like mark wont kill a nb if they are decent.

i just don't agree with your logic here, I think it's flawed.

First, if you get a sorc out of Stam and can't burst him down in six seconds, that's on you, not the class shield. CC Stam draining a sorc is the best way to kill them, and proves the people who say "there's no counter to shields" have no clue what they're talking about. If Sorcs were so strong, why weren't they winning 1v1 tourneys? Because all you have to do is burn down their Stam to beat them.

"A decent player is not going to die from light attacks." So basically the Sorcs only option is to run away from shield breaker? If we have no way to defend against it, our only option is to then run, because we can't out heal that damage with a major defile and lord knows we have no class related mitigation, not to mention that all of that unresistable damage comes at zero cost to the attacker, leaving their resources untouched. I don't like running, I like repositioning but always re-engaging in even numbered fights, but I have no option to stand my ground against a cheeseball set like SB.

There are plenty of very good Sorcs complaining about this set, and they're doing so for a reason. It's not "balance," it's not a "counter," it's a lazy, no-skill attempt to balance PvP without pissing off the PvEers.

8 times out of ten sorcs have there shields up with no downtime. so, although you may drain them out of stamina you still have to burst through their shields and their health in the 6 seconds which is difficult even with highburst with the damage reduction. Also, draining stamina is not a counter to shields. It is a way to drain resources which has nothing to do with stacking shields. You can use this logic with anything. Drain anyone of stamina and you can burst them down.

ALso, running is no the only option. cc the other player and keep pressure on them to force them in a defensive position. reposition yourself with streak. LOS them while you get your barrings to retailiate. I see this happen on a regular basis when a player realizes another player is using SB on them. This requires awarness and counter moves. Again, much like a NB who has been revealed.

Also, a player who is simply spamming the attack is only doing 2k damage as opposed to the 5k-7k they do from normal attacks. not to mention, you can not use 1v1 tourneys to justify why a class is not OP. when it comes down to 1v1 it is all about moves and counter moves. Being able to outplay your opponent and skill. Saying a sorc is not strong b/c they dont win tourneys does not speak to the class but the skill of players involved. Also, do you know of every single tourney? i doubt it.

so is sheild stacking not suppose to have a counter? How is sheild stacking balanced? all i hear is sorcs complaining about a counter against them and yell nerf. welcome to the world of hard counters the rest of the classes deal with. Again, it is one type of build that is built to counter another build. its use is specific and limited.

and i am sorry but the people i face on a daily basis play very well against this set and simply spamming light attacks wil get you killed in seconds. when playing these players this set is only useful as an execute. However, I must play against much better sorcs then those on the forums if no one else sees this. I find this unlikely.

I'm sorry but you keep referring to "shield stacking" as a stamina user. Shield Stacking has no bearing in your argument as the second shield a sorcerer would use is either Dampen/Harness Magicka.... which does not mitigate physical attacks. You are at most dealing with 2 shields (Healing Ward) and usually just 1 shield (Class shield - Hardened Ward). The reason people get so mad about these 20K+ shields is because they see the sorc cast healing ward at low health giving them an instantly large shield and cast Hardened on top of it to protect it so they get the benefit of a full heal when it expires 3 secs later. THAT is the bad game design. I will still say that I do not agree with SB in it's current form, but shields do need to be balanced or revamped. However no stamina user should be complaining about sorc shield stacking at all... if anyone has the right to complain it would be magicka users who do go through 2 shields usually and 3 if they manage to make a dent in the health bar. Honestly, if anything, SB should have gone to a magicka user and not stamina.

how is this more of a magika user problem then a stam user? it is an issue for all.

Because Magicka users have a harder time getting past shield stacking than stamina users do. Stam users don't have to get through harness Magicka.

i see this is a good point. (side note: i do not think this set should proc on harness. this is ridiculous because you are simply adding 2k damage to your attacks through weaving.) perhaps it should be crafted then

That part isn't what we are complaining about, a decent players isn't gonna use harness Magicka against a stam user. I don't know how many of the top sorcerers are gonna have to come on here and say "yes shields should be adjusted but this set is still stupid (continues on to list why)" before people realize that there is an issue here. Not that it matters anyways zos said the set isn't going anywhere might as well just avoid anyone using 5 pieces of SB and see how they likehaving less players to pvp against.

ok, but just as many players that list why the set is stupid list why the set is not stupid. Also, although i mostly agree with you on harness magika, i would argue that the best players would know when to use harness against a stamina user. For instance, grim focus is magic damage, killers blade is magic damage, many ultimates are magic damage. so although these skills may scale off of weapon and stamina, they give magic damage. so using harness would alleviate the damage of these attacks.

Derra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

Sorcs have 3 good self heals.

• dark conversion
• Clannfear
• Twilight

ON TOP of the Dark Magic passives and Surge.
Try those out instead of stacking a 3rd shield...

Every other class that can't stack 3-4 shields got hit hard by the LA nerf.

You think those are "good self-heals?" Give me a break, dude. As someone who's played sorc since Beta, I can safely say you have no idea what you're talking about.

Guess what? DKs and Templars can stack just as many shields as Sorcs, it's just that Hardened Ward is better. We have ONE class shield, but the way you'd hear people talk about it, we have five. Every class except NBs can stack the exact same amount of shields, but unlike DKs and Templars, we have no class heal to counter a cheeseball shield breaker set that requires no resources.

How many times do we have to circle the wagon. We know it's one shield. Buts it's one shield that scales with magicka. That's the difference. Make the DKs shield scale with magicka and unnerf our whip and see what happens.

Actually one shield scaling with magica is not a problem. Every class would be able to break this in the current patch. The problem is how that classshield interacts with other shields.

For 1vX it´s insanely powerful to have harness + hardened because it split´s damage of magica and stamina classes. While your stam shield might be broken most of the time your harness is not and you´re not dying because the magica users still attack your shield.
For 1v1 fighting against two stackable shields is bullsh*t anyway. Especially with how harness is magica POSITIVE for the caster in just about any circumstance you´re using it.

Then you add healing ward on top (there´s not really a choice to using it - it´s the only burstheal available to non templars) you can protect the ward to secure the heal if you´re casting hardened (and harness) before. Again this is stupid design.

The solution would be to rework healing ward (atleast one morph) to function as a true instant healing mechanic (maybe only a selfheal). Give harness a complete revamp (it´s the only armor buff without universal usefulness for every build) and make shields not stackable.

This however would require more work than a shieldbreaker set or an ability counter they plan to implement (of which i sincerely hope it will be magica based bc magica classes are the ones that actually HAVE to fight stacked shields).

Darnathian wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

quote="kevlarto_ESO;2365689"]I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug

You do use Shield Breaker, I was killed by you or should I say -your cheesy set did work for you. Everyone who defends this set, I will be blunt here, are complete morons. I want a set that kills someone who uses Cloak. Why not, It's more annoying than shields. I want set that kills guys who selfheal or set that kills zergs. Why not .Or even better, I want a set that kills better players than me. It's annoying to be killed by more skilled player, I want something that , let's say if I close to death and he is playing smarter than me, set would proc and he would be killed instantly. ZOS i want this by next update if you please.

Your argument is flawed. Everything else you mentioned has a hard counter and many. Shields have one....only one.

This is just not true.

CC is a counter to shield stacking Sorcs. With such a limited stamina pool, a constant stream of CC will whittle it down and no sorc can stack shields if they can't break CC.

But a counter like that takes skill, unlike shield breaker where all you have to do is major defile a sorc and spam light attacks and there's nothing they can do.

if you stack sheilds then get cc, even with fear you still need to get through shields in that time, plus hope that healing ward doesnt pop. they survive that now they cant be cc for 6 seconds and they are back to full health. Also, CC can be used against everyone and all builds. So, yes you can CC a cloaker or a healer etc. However, they all also have hard counters such as defile and inner light. Whereas sheilds simply have the CC. SO, by putting in a hard counter sheilds have CC and a hard counter.

Also, a decent player is not going to die from light attack spams. If you die from light attack spams then you deserve to die. At that point skill comes into play. Now you have to adapt to what the player is doing to you. Plenty of time to CC them, use LOS etc. JUst like a nb using cloak getting marked has to adapt. Or a temp getting hit with defile etc. Light attack spamms do not work to kill a decent player becasue they are not idiots. just like mark wont kill a nb if they are decent.

i just don't agree with your logic here, I think it's flawed.

First, if you get a sorc out of Stam and can't burst him down in six seconds, that's on you, not the class shield. CC Stam draining a sorc is the best way to kill them, and proves the people who say "there's no counter to shields" have no clue what they're talking about. If Sorcs were so strong, why weren't they winning 1v1 tourneys? Because all you have to do is burn down their Stam to beat them.

"A decent player is not going to die from light attacks." So basically the Sorcs only option is to run away from shield breaker? If we have no way to defend against it, our only option is to then run, because we can't out heal that damage with a major defile and lord knows we have no class related mitigation, not to mention that all of that unresistable damage comes at zero cost to the attacker, leaving their resources untouched. I don't like running, I like repositioning but always re-engaging in even numbered fights, but I have no option to stand my ground against a cheeseball set like SB.

There are plenty of very good Sorcs complaining about this set, and they're doing so for a reason. It's not "balance," it's not a "counter," it's a lazy, no-skill attempt to balance PvP without pissing off the PvEers.

And there are good sorc's who refuse to play SORC because it is cheese mode still

There are good sorcs who play NB now because how much more powerful it is

The only thing about sorc i´d nerf apart from stackable shields is overload. The third ability bar is absurd for soloplay and apart from reflect you can´t counter it anymore if someone opens with 1000 ultimate. It´s design is the epitome of a cheesy mechanic.

Why do ppl keep com8ng back to this 8dea that healing ward is the only heal? What about bleesing? This is a very solid self heal available to all. Sure you won't get it to hit for 20k in one pop, but still a very strong reliable heal that is relatively cheap for a magika user. There is no reason to touch healing ward and make it an instant heal because you already have one. No there should not be a self heal like temp has because that is their apecialty. So you choose between and install heal that is solid and reliable or a shield that can give great heals but you have to wait for it to proc and it has a counter. Such 8s the life of jot being a twmplar. People seem to want twmplar heals with every class. This is not how it should be. You want temp heals then be a templar.

ToRelax wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

Sorcs have 3 good self heals.

• dark conversion
• Clannfear
• Twilight

ON TOP of the Dark Magic passives and Surge.
Try those out instead of stacking a 3rd shield...

Every other class that can't stack 3-4 shields got hit hard by the LA nerf.

You think those are "good self-heals?" Give me a break, dude. As someone who's played sorc since Beta, I can safely say you have no idea what you're talking about.

Guess what? DKs and Templars can stack just as many shields as Sorcs, it's just that Hardened Ward is better. We have ONE class shield, but the way you'd hear people talk about it, we have five. Every class except NBs can stack the exact same amount of shields, but unlike DKs and Templars, we have no class heal to counter a cheeseball shield breaker set that requires no resources.

How many times do we have to circle the wagon. We know it's one shield. Buts it's one shield that scales with magicka. That's the difference. Make the DKs shield scale with magicka and unnerf our whip and see what happens.

Actually one shield scaling with magica is not a problem. Every class would be able to break this in the current patch. The problem is how that classshield interacts with other shields.

For 1vX it´s insanely powerful to have harness + hardened because it split´s damage of magica and stamina classes. While your stam shield might be broken most of the time your harness is not and you´re not dying because the magica users still attack your shield.
For 1v1 fighting against two stackable shields is bullsh*t anyway. Especially with how harness is magica POSITIVE for the caster in just about any circumstance you´re using it.

Then you add healing ward on top (there´s not really a choice to using it - it´s the only burstheal available to non templars) you can protect the ward to secure the heal if you´re casting hardened (and harness) before. Again this is stupid design.

The solution would be to rework healing ward (atleast one morph) to function as a true instant healing mechanic (maybe only a selfheal). Give harness a complete revamp (it´s the only armor buff without universal usefulness for every build) and make shields not stackable.

This however would require more work than a shieldbreaker set or an ability counter they plan to implement (of which i sincerely hope it will be magica based bc magica classes are the ones that actually HAVE to fight stacked shields).

Darnathian wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

quote="kevlarto_ESO;2365689"]I played my sorc last night on Azura pc/na, and I was killed by a night blade or two, none of them used shield breaker, in fact I was not hit once by shield breaker, some of these threads make it sound like every nightblade in the game is in stealth just waiting to ambush every sorc with shield breaker, I think this whole shield breaker thing might just be a bit on the exaggeration side. /shrug

You do use Shield Breaker, I was killed by you or should I say -your cheesy set did work for you. Everyone who defends this set, I will be blunt here, are complete morons. I want a set that kills someone who uses Cloak. Why not, It's more annoying than shields. I want set that kills guys who selfheal or set that kills zergs. Why not .Or even better, I want a set that kills better players than me. It's annoying to be killed by more skilled player, I want something that , let's say if I close to death and he is playing smarter than me, set would proc and he would be killed instantly. ZOS i want this by next update if you please.

Your argument is flawed. Everything else you mentioned has a hard counter and many. Shields have one....only one.

This is just not true.

CC is a counter to shield stacking Sorcs. With such a limited stamina pool, a constant stream of CC will whittle it down and no sorc can stack shields if they can't break CC.

But a counter like that takes skill, unlike shield breaker where all you have to do is major defile a sorc and spam light attacks and there's nothing they can do.

if you stack sheilds then get cc, even with fear you still need to get through shields in that time, plus hope that healing ward doesnt pop. they survive that now they cant be cc for 6 seconds and they are back to full health. Also, CC can be used against everyone and all builds. So, yes you can CC a cloaker or a healer etc. However, they all also have hard counters such as defile and inner light. Whereas sheilds simply have the CC. SO, by putting in a hard counter sheilds have CC and a hard counter.

Also, a decent player is not going to die from light attack spams. If you die from light attack spams then you deserve to die. At that point skill comes into play. Now you have to adapt to what the player is doing to you. Plenty of time to CC them, use LOS etc. JUst like a nb using cloak getting marked has to adapt. Or a temp getting hit with defile etc. Light attack spamms do not work to kill a decent player becasue they are not idiots. just like mark wont kill a nb if they are decent.

i just don't agree with your logic here, I think it's flawed.

First, if you get a sorc out of Stam and can't burst him down in six seconds, that's on you, not the class shield. CC Stam draining a sorc is the best way to kill them, and proves the people who say "there's no counter to shields" have no clue what they're talking about. If Sorcs were so strong, why weren't they winning 1v1 tourneys? Because all you have to do is burn down their Stam to beat them.

"A decent player is not going to die from light attacks." So basically the Sorcs only option is to run away from shield breaker? If we have no way to defend against it, our only option is to then run, because we can't out heal that damage with a major defile and lord knows we have no class related mitigation, not to mention that all of that unresistable damage comes at zero cost to the attacker, leaving their resources untouched. I don't like running, I like repositioning but always re-engaging in even numbered fights, but I have no option to stand my ground against a cheeseball set like SB.

There are plenty of very good Sorcs complaining about this set, and they're doing so for a reason. It's not "balance," it's not a "counter," it's a lazy, no-skill attempt to balance PvP without pissing off the PvEers.

And there are good sorc's who refuse to play SORC because it is cheese mode still

There are good sorcs who play NB now because how much more powerful it is

The only thing about sorc i´d nerf apart from stackable shields is overload. The third ability bar is absurd for soloplay and apart from reflect you can´t counter it anymore if someone opens with 1000 ultimate. It´s design is the epitome of a cheesy mechanic.

Why do ppl keep com8ng back to this 8dea that healing ward is the only heal? What about bleesing? This is a very solid self heal available to all. Sure you won't get it to hit for 20k in one pop, but still a very strong reliable heal that is relatively cheap for a magika user. There is no reason to touch healing ward and make it an instant heal because you already have one. No there should not be a self heal like temp has because that is their apecialty. So you choose between and install heal that is solid and reliable or a shield that can give great heals but you have to wait for it to proc and it has a counter. Such 8s the life of jot being a twmplar. People seem to want twmplar heals with every class. This is not how it should be. You want temp heals then be a templar.

Breath of Life is smartheal, burstheal and non targetet AoE. It's fine only Templars have access to that, but not having a burstheal in the resto line is stupid. It was fine without shieldbreaker, Healing Ward was a burstheal yet not as powerful as Rushed Ceremony. Since everyone complained about shieldstacking, they could just have made it an instant burstheal, a bit weaker than it used to be. Instead they implemented a counter against it. It's as if people would have 6s to kill a Templar before his heal arrives, stupid.

There is always bleesing of protection. Instant heal. And a solid one at that.