What I dislike about playing my sorcerer

Francescolg · October 2015

@TE
you're very right, especially on the aspect of max. dmg + max. shield + mobility all together in one stat, and no draw-backs if going full magicka.

Someone funnyly tried to argue that DK+Templars's shield also benefit from magicka.. how laughable!

Unfortunately, the very competent combat-team will not listen at all to you, as we already complained over 6 months ago about the same points. As a healer I note immediately when there is an experienced sorc in group, as they need much less heals in casual-pvp/pve, if they just use that one shield.

I'll not dig deeper or go on to argue, as I'm tired of ZOS

tennant94 · October 2015

What i dislike about playing my sorcerer is using bolt escape but never actually escaping.

Joy_Division · October 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Obligatory disclaimer: Yes, my sorcerer is the strongest class in PvP and I too think it is ridiculous that I can just stack magicka and have defense, mobility, and firepower. It's in fun though

This is mostly a PvE gripe list, because I do not find the class fun to play competitively in that environment.
My competitive DPS is entirely dependent on a specific ultimate (that synergizes too ridiculously with a specific undaunted set). To the counter that "so is a DK's," my retort is that at least the DK drops her ultiamte (and a cool one at that, none of the pew-pew nonsense) and still does her thing. A sorcerer just stands there light attacking away. *Yawn*.

The storm atronachs I summon are the rejects from Oblivion. Why can't mine move? Why can't mine fire off those cool AoEs? Why can my ultimate be completely eliminated by a regular skill such as fossilize? My raid leader once laughed when a inexperienced enemy sorcerer used this ultimate on us.

Enemy bosses gain immunity to my mines. Why? Is it compelling game design to punish a sorcerer for moving, anticipating correctly, using tactics skillfully? Why am I just expected to just pew-pew from a distance?

My competitive DPs is entirely dependent on toggles. I really dislike the fact that I have to slot bound aegis on both of my bars to compete with other players. Whatever happened to play as you want? I want to play with skill variety and being able to look at the armor I spent so much time crafting and dying, thank you!

In every RPG I ever played, I *loved* the concept of the summoner. But not this one! Why are *both* of our pets toggles? Why can't I just summon stuff and have them do their thing without babysitting them?

Why can I only have one deadric curse active? How about we make it so Nightblades can only do 1 surprise attack every 6 seconds and see how they feel about it.

The Encase skill drive me nuts! It is too skinny. It is an AoE, but does not effect dodge rollers. The damage morph does not proc if players CC break it (which means never). In no longer synergizes with:

You took away my best passive: exploitation. Give me back a reason to use my crappy encase skill!

My lightning splash skill is useless in PvP because it's all about burst damage, the 50% battle spitit nerf makes the damage negligible compared to health regeneration, and the champion system passive resilient undermines fast ticking DoTs.

We are encouraged to use the worst of the elemental staffs, lightning. We are stuck with light animation cancels, a heavy attack passive that is bugged (nearby enemies do not take damage), and now lost the one saving grace, being able to actually hit dodge-rollers and perma-blockers.

To play competitively, I have to visit my local blacksmith and use two swords! Play as you want? No, I lose 700 spell damage if I use a staff. Change your slogan to "Play as you want and get Rekt for doing so!"

I still don't think it is fair our shields scale with our best stat whereas Templars and DKs, well, let's just say those kill quests aren't that particularly difficult to complete.

Since you said you'd reevaluate where the DK stands after the Orsimium update, how about making the sorcerer class something more than a overload spammer dependent on toggles?

Thank You!

Templar, stacks Magicka> Gets more damage, stronger heals, stronger Magicka shields
Nightblade, stacks Magicka> Gets more damage, stronger heals, more cloak, stronger Magick shields
Stamina builds, stack Stamina> Gets more damage, more blocks, more dodge roll, stronger Vigor heals
etc etc.

Your argument couldn't be more wrong. I'm tired of people claiming, that Sorcerer is the only class benefiting from increasing his offensive ressource. it's just WRONG. Each class and each spec highly profits from putting more in offensive ressources, some classes even benefit from putting everything into health.

Just stop already
Luckily I did not stop reading after this non-sense statement of yours and can gladly agree to the rest of your thread.

Can you please go one thread without insisting that the only possible correct way to understand sorcerer shields is your way? You are so closed minded and set in you ways, it is impossible to have a conversation with you.

You are so paranoid that someone might convince ZoS to one down your shields you interpret anything written about the subject as heresy. You sit there and scream at me in CAPS my "argument" couldn't be more "WRONG." I never made an argument. I stated my opinion that a sorcerer's shields should not be unique in scaling to magicka. I did not expand on it because it's not the point of the thread. It's not an argument; it is merely a reiteration of an opinion that others on this forum happen to share. It's not wrong just because it differs from what you think, which is, no matter how fanatically you believe in it, just an opinion as well.

If you are tired of people claiming that sorcerers are the only class benefiting from increasing her resources, I suggest you either splash your face with cold water and wake up, grow thicker skin, or stop reading these forums altogether because that is a valid opinion and expressing it does not violate the term of service. So no, I will not stop. Not today, Not tomorrow. Not because you scream at me. Not ever.

I am not "WRONG" because my analysis of something that is very difficult to quantify or measure contradicts or is different from yours. It is not "non-sense." This isn't math or science where there are laws and theorems that can actually prove things. How is it even possible to have a productive conversation with someone who thinks their opinion is irrefutably correct?

Yes, you are indeed wrong.Because it is just wrong.
Each class profits from puting everything into 1 stat, you claim Sorcerer is the only. [ I did not say this in the OP or this thread - you said I did] Which again, is wrong.
Just as wrong as you claiming, Sorcerer shield is the only shield scaling with Magicka. [ I did not say this in the OP or this thread - you said I did]

The only class shield probably. [ Not probably. It is] But there are 2 other Magicka shields available for everyone and they offer more utility than hardened ward does.[This does not change the distinction that the magicka sorcerer class shield scales from its offensive stat whereas the DK and templar versions do not ] I am sorry, I agree with you quite often. But how am I supposed to agree, when all you say is just wrong ? [not putting words in my mouth would be a start.] I thought, you know more about the game.

I mean, you're one of these prophets, who say that Sorcerer shield or actually all shields according to your profile, should scale with health. This says everything about you..... [ So you know everything about me because of my opinion on class shields? Just wow. And since it is brought up, I am also of the belief that health should be the highest attribute as it was in 1.5, which means if sorcerer shields still scaled off magicka, that would be a relative nerf.]

I never claimed that other classes do not derive benefits from stacking all their points into a single attribute. The relevant question, which every single sorcerer thread turns into is how much are sorcerers profiting from stacking magicka relative to the other classes. I am of the opinion that magicka sorcerers gain too much in the way of defense and, to a lesser degree, mobility from that single attribute. I am not alone in this. This does not mean I don't think other class combinations are also guilty of this. With the inclusion of the vigor skill and the high amount of stamina & sustain, the disadvantage stamina users had to draw from the same pool for offense and defense is much less an issue than the beginning of the game. It is a potentially interesting topic to debate as it is open to interpretation and cannot be easily quantifiable, In short, there is no "right" and "wrong." But a prerequisite to having an interesting discussion would be for you to stop screaming at me, insisting I am wrong, and telling me to stop because of alleged arguments that I did not make.

Alucardo · October 2015

I don't really play magicka sorc, but noticed a couple of things;

It would be cool if the storm atronach could move around, even if slowly. They're too easy to put to rest with camo hunter and knock them on their arse with leash.

Liquid Lighting, this barely does 250 damage because I just step to the side. Seems like a lot of magicka for such little damage. Great for static bosses - terrible in PvP. What if it had a slightly larger radius and a snare to try and keep people in it longer?

I don't mind the whole dual wielding swords thing because there's a bit of a balance there. You either have small bursts of damage with swords, or a more constant lower DPS with a staff. If you could get the same constant damage as you do with staves, then dual wielding would become an issue in the bad sense

Ah, I miss the Oblivion summoning. Used to love playing as a Conjurer (those dudes with the blue robes). Unfortunately the sorc summoning makes me feel more like I have a pet. Was hoping for a 40 second Clannfear that can morph into a not-too-overpowered fire breathing Daedroth for 20 seconds, or a Hunger that steals health and replenishes its master for 30 seconds. It should also be able to attack as well.

Waffennacht · October 2015

Well I read only a bit of the thread (i normally read it all)

But one thing stands out to me.

In all my PvP experience with my Sorc there is one area a Sorc does not even come close to comparing:

Healing.

Temps obv are great healers and can use a heal that can completely negate a overload light attack.

I have fought DKs that can get that heal bar to full while taking damage. Both don't need the use of resto staff.

NB can cloak, disengage and therefore get the out of combat regen rates.

Sorcs may have the wards, but typically low health and no real heals. Sure you got surge, however you still gotta be offensive to use (typically when ur low health ur in a defensive position)

Joy_Division · October 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

Well I read only a bit of the thread (i normally read it all)

But one thing stands out to me.

In all my PvP experience with my Sorc there is one area a Sorc does not even come close to comparing:

Healing.

Temps obv are great healers and can use a heal that can completely negate a overload light attack.

I have fought DKs that can get that heal bar to full while taking damage. Both don't need the use of resto staff.

NB can cloak, disengage and therefore get the out of combat regen rates.

Sorcs may have the wards, but typically low health and no real heals. Sure you got surge, however you still gotta be offensive to use (typically when ur low health ur in a defensive position)

Well now that the thread is completely derailed, I might as well comment about this observation about PvP.

Sorcerers are now probably the worst healers in the game.

When the game came out, they could use critical surge to get more out a restoration staff than other classes. There was an argument floating around that this made them very good healers. Also in PvE surge worked on every crit which made the skill much stronger (though not in PvP because of impenetrable and damage shields).

Now though, resto staff is based of spellpower and every class has access to major sorcery so their previous unique advantage is lost.

A DK can modify her healing by 30% through a class skill.
A NB can heal other people while doing damage. Funnel Health is also more reliable than critical surge.

So as a sorcerer healer, you don't really have much in the way of bonuses or additional options to heal other people. Whereas you once did. Which, now that I think about it, is another PvE gripe. It's also annoying for sorcerers who would like to heal in PvP.

I think a sorcerer who relies on surge for healing is asking for trouble because of it's randomness and it will not proc on damage shields. Some people are experimenting with various heavy armor builds, the undaunted healing orbs, sword and shield absorb and other means to free themselves from having to use a restoration staff. Some people are reporting varying degrees of success. Still, sorcerer healing in PvP and in general I would say overly restrictive.

That being said, healing ward is still a very good heal no matter who uses it and I agree with the people who think that it is this skill, rather than merely hardened ward, that is the essential cog that makes the cookie-cutter build so prevalent in Cyrodiil work so well. There is a natural synergy that comes from using both in conjunction as hardened ward can protect the healing shield and thus allow for a better burst. It's no breath of life, yet is nonetheless an effective technique.

Dracane · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Obligatory disclaimer: Yes, my sorcerer is the strongest class in PvP and I too think it is ridiculous that I can just stack magicka and have defense, mobility, and firepower. It's in fun though

This is mostly a PvE gripe list, because I do not find the class fun to play competitively in that environment.
My competitive DPS is entirely dependent on a specific ultimate (that synergizes too ridiculously with a specific undaunted set). To the counter that "so is a DK's," my retort is that at least the DK drops her ultiamte (and a cool one at that, none of the pew-pew nonsense) and still does her thing. A sorcerer just stands there light attacking away. *Yawn*.

The storm atronachs I summon are the rejects from Oblivion. Why can't mine move? Why can't mine fire off those cool AoEs? Why can my ultimate be completely eliminated by a regular skill such as fossilize? My raid leader once laughed when a inexperienced enemy sorcerer used this ultimate on us.

Enemy bosses gain immunity to my mines. Why? Is it compelling game design to punish a sorcerer for moving, anticipating correctly, using tactics skillfully? Why am I just expected to just pew-pew from a distance?

My competitive DPs is entirely dependent on toggles. I really dislike the fact that I have to slot bound aegis on both of my bars to compete with other players. Whatever happened to play as you want? I want to play with skill variety and being able to look at the armor I spent so much time crafting and dying, thank you!

In every RPG I ever played, I *loved* the concept of the summoner. But not this one! Why are *both* of our pets toggles? Why can't I just summon stuff and have them do their thing without babysitting them?

Why can I only have one deadric curse active? How about we make it so Nightblades can only do 1 surprise attack every 6 seconds and see how they feel about it.

The Encase skill drive me nuts! It is too skinny. It is an AoE, but does not effect dodge rollers. The damage morph does not proc if players CC break it (which means never). In no longer synergizes with:

You took away my best passive: exploitation. Give me back a reason to use my crappy encase skill!

My lightning splash skill is useless in PvP because it's all about burst damage, the 50% battle spitit nerf makes the damage negligible compared to health regeneration, and the champion system passive resilient undermines fast ticking DoTs.

We are encouraged to use the worst of the elemental staffs, lightning. We are stuck with light animation cancels, a heavy attack passive that is bugged (nearby enemies do not take damage), and now lost the one saving grace, being able to actually hit dodge-rollers and perma-blockers.

To play competitively, I have to visit my local blacksmith and use two swords! Play as you want? No, I lose 700 spell damage if I use a staff. Change your slogan to "Play as you want and get Rekt for doing so!"

I still don't think it is fair our shields scale with our best stat whereas Templars and DKs, well, let's just say those kill quests aren't that particularly difficult to complete.

Since you said you'd reevaluate where the DK stands after the Orsimium update, how about making the sorcerer class something more than a overload spammer dependent on toggles?

Thank You!

Templar, stacks Magicka> Gets more damage, stronger heals, stronger Magicka shields
Nightblade, stacks Magicka> Gets more damage, stronger heals, more cloak, stronger Magick shields
Stamina builds, stack Stamina> Gets more damage, more blocks, more dodge roll, stronger Vigor heals
etc etc.

Your argument couldn't be more wrong. I'm tired of people claiming, that Sorcerer is the only class benefiting from increasing his offensive ressource. it's just WRONG. Each class and each spec highly profits from putting more in offensive ressources, some classes even benefit from putting everything into health.

Just stop already
Luckily I did not stop reading after this non-sense statement of yours and can gladly agree to the rest of your thread.

Can you please go one thread without insisting that the only possible correct way to understand sorcerer shields is your way? You are so closed minded and set in you ways, it is impossible to have a conversation with you.

You are so paranoid that someone might convince ZoS to one down your shields you interpret anything written about the subject as heresy. You sit there and scream at me in CAPS my "argument" couldn't be more "WRONG." I never made an argument. I stated my opinion that a sorcerer's shields should not be unique in scaling to magicka. I did not expand on it because it's not the point of the thread. It's not an argument; it is merely a reiteration of an opinion that others on this forum happen to share. It's not wrong just because it differs from what you think, which is, no matter how fanatically you believe in it, just an opinion as well.

If you are tired of people claiming that sorcerers are the only class benefiting from increasing her resources, I suggest you either splash your face with cold water and wake up, grow thicker skin, or stop reading these forums altogether because that is a valid opinion and expressing it does not violate the term of service. So no, I will not stop. Not today, Not tomorrow. Not because you scream at me. Not ever.

I am not "WRONG" because my analysis of something that is very difficult to quantify or measure contradicts or is different from yours. It is not "non-sense." This isn't math or science where there are laws and theorems that can actually prove things. How is it even possible to have a productive conversation with someone who thinks their opinion is irrefutably correct?

Yes, you are indeed wrong.Because it is just wrong.
Each class profits from puting everything into 1 stat, you claim Sorcerer is the only. [ I did not say this in the OP or this thread - you said I did] Which again, is wrong.
Just as wrong as you claiming, Sorcerer shield is the only shield scaling with Magicka. [ I did not say this in the OP or this thread - you said I did]

The only class shield probably. [ Not probably. It is] But there are 2 other Magicka shields available for everyone and they offer more utility than hardened ward does.[This does not change the distinction that the magicka sorcerer class shield scales from its offensive stat whereas the DK and templar versions do not ] I am sorry, I agree with you quite often. But how am I supposed to agree, when all you say is just wrong ? [not putting words in my mouth would be a start.] I thought, you know more about the game.

I mean, you're one of these prophets, who say that Sorcerer shield or actually all shields according to your profile, should scale with health. This says everything about you..... [ So you know everything about me because of my opinion on class shields? Just wow. And since it is brought up, I am also of the belief that health should be the highest attribute as it was in 1.5, which means if sorcerer shields still scaled off magicka, that would be a relative nerf.]

I never claimed that other classes do not derive benefits from stacking all their points into a single attribute. The relevant question, which every single sorcerer thread turns into is how much are sorcerers profiting from stacking magicka relative to the other classes. I am of the opinion that magicka sorcerers gain too much in the way of defense and, to a lesser degree, mobility from that single attribute. I am not alone in this. This does not mean I don't think other class combinations are also guilty of this. With the inclusion of the vigor skill and the high amount of stamina & sustain, the disadvantage stamina users had to draw from the same pool for offense and defense is much less an issue than the beginning of the game. It is a potentially interesting topic to debate as it is open to interpretation and cannot be easily quantifiable, In short, there is no "right" and "wrong." But a prerequisite to having an interesting discussion would be for you to stop screaming at me, insisting I am wrong, and telling me to stop because of alleged arguments that I did not make.

I did not scream at you, honey

I was calm actually. Though a bit overwhelmed due to so many weird statements of yours.
Sorcerer does not profit from putting everything into 1 ressource more than any other class does or can if they want.
This invalid argument has been brought up a long time ago by bad informed people and sadly, too many people soaked this up like a sponge and keep repeating it even though it's not true.