Siege weapons - very weak

rich.magab14a_ESO · October 2015

reften wrote: »

rich.magab14a_ESO wrote: »

reften wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Siege doesn't benefit the zergs. If it went back to it's prior damage level and incorporated some non-purgeable elements, it would be useful against spammy zerg groups. Those groups rely on tight bunching and would be vulnerable. They don't use siege against players.

Heck most of the zerg groups barely siege walls these days. They are happy to run around keeps farming anyone that tries to engage them. And when they try and siege is the only point they are vulnerable (because they are no longer stacked with heals, purges and massive damage to anyone who gets close).

Small groups and solos, on the other hand, can use siege. Most semi skilled players can run multiple siege weapons. A group of 5 or so can lay down enough siege to come close to the siege limit. Now if only there was a reason to use siege.

Yup

I have said my piece on this numerous time....Siege needs to be a heavy hitter...it needs to hit HARD, it needs to go back to 1.6 Damage levels with a few unpurgable elements(Meatbags and Oil Catapults should not be purgeable) Oil Cata's were instrumental in fighting larger groups back in the day, sadly thats no longer the case.

This would do a lot to help there server too as these large zerg groups would be killable.

Its a fallacy that someone is more skillful because they run a large group, bunch together, and use certain skills, its also equally a fallancy that someone is a noob because they could kill you with siege. These are both illogical positions to hold.

siege right now is useless, A Fire Ballista hits for like 5k, Wrecking Blow hits for 9k.....there is something really wrong with that....

Disagree. I run with 16-20, we're well organized. You boost siege damage, we're going to constantly designate 4 party members to setup, fire, then take down siege, and make our group even more powerful. Additionally, we'd change our tactics to have a spread stack (we did this when many of us WERE vamps and could be one shotted by fire trebs)

See how this works? Careful what you wish for. The constant desire to make single players more power against zergs (see prox det) is making the "zergs" (or, players who have learned to play that get called zergs) even more powerful.

your scenarios really only apply to open field combat or on a resource. Even then the winner of that battle is mostly dictated on who has the best position for siege placement. Increased siege damage for defending keeps benefits small groups the most.

So not true, I was specifically talking about seiging keeps. Can get siege in tight spaces easily.

the defender will always have the benefit of being able to put up siege in the right places first, especially defending the inner. So the attacking group is going to have to take a good amount of damage deal with attacking players and npcs. With increased siege damage a well coordinated siege attack will take out a group right on the breach

Manoekin · October 2015

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Siege doesn't benefit the zergs. If it went back to it's prior damage level and incorporated some non-purgeable elements, it would be useful against spammy zerg groups. Those groups rely on tight bunching and would be vulnerable. They don't use siege against players.

Heck most of the zerg groups barely siege walls these days. They are happy to run around keeps farming anyone that tries to engage them. And when they try and siege is the only point they are vulnerable (because they are no longer stacked with heals, purges and massive damage to anyone who gets close).

Small groups and solos, on the other hand, can use siege. Most semi skilled players can run multiple siege weapons. A group of 5 or so can lay down enough siege to come close to the siege limit. Now if only there was a reason to use siege.

Yup

I have said my piece on this numerous time....Siege needs to be a heavy hitter...it needs to hit HARD, it needs to go back to 1.6 Damage levels with a few unpurgable elements(Meatbags and Oil Catapults should not be purgeable) Oil Cata's were instrumental in fighting larger groups back in the day, sadly thats no longer the case.

This would do a lot to help there server too as these large zerg groups would be killable.

Its a fallacy that someone is more skillful because they run a large group, bunch together, and use certain skills, its also equally a fallancy that someone is a noob because they could kill you with siege. These are both illogical positions to hold.

siege right now is useless, A Fire Ballista hits for like 5k, Wrecking Blow hits for 9k.....there is something really wrong with that....

No, it's illogical to base a player's skill level off of their preferred play style.

Also, a fire ballista does a lot more damage than a wrecking blow because a fire ballista can hit an unlimited amount of targets for 100% damage. If you're comparing single target damage then you're just doing it wrong, and I question your level of skill and knowledge in this game.

Last post in this thread because it's turning into an idiot's paradise... We've had 1.6 siege damage and we all saw what happened. We've had unpurgeable oil catapults and we all saw what happened. It benefits the zerg. No, a zerg is not 16-20 people. That's a raid group. The zerg is the 40+ people that end up surrounding that 16-20 with a dozen meatbags, fire ballistas, oil catapults. Somehow we've come far enough that the organized raid group is more vilified than the 40+ zerg group that prominent small group players that participate in certain streams join in with the 40+ and start raging and sending us whispers about how we are the ones zerging. Is this some sort of massive troll conspiracy that people participating in a fight with a 2:1 advantage have any right to claim the other side is unskilled or doing something bad? Surely this can't be the case.

Siege is still good, you're just all using it wrong.

Waseem · October 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Siege is fine. If I could buy one shot weapons for miniscule amounts of AP I don't know why I even need abilities on my bar at that point. Siege is used as support dps/debuff which is the proper place for it regarding Player vs. Player fights.

Player vs Player ??? Oh you mean Zerg vs Zerg. Yea sorry no nice opinion but sieges need buffed to kill zergs cause how it is right now with sieges is who ever is the larger group wins which means say like 6 guys who are at a keep suddenly get attacked by a group of 20. They are doomed because they clearly can fight them 20 on 6 so all they have to depend on is siege weapons but oh wait siege weapons hit just like nerf guns.

so do you want 6 people to win over 20? or you want to backstabbing keeps capturing and ruin the intended feature and fun of cyrodiil?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2015

Talcyndl wrote: »

reften wrote: »

Additionally, we'd change our tactics to have a spread stack (we did this when many of us WERE vamps and could be one shotted by fire trebs)

Good. That should be the result that ZOS (and players) should want.

It will lower server load and make those groups vulnerable to counter attacks. Because as things stand now, large spammy groups are invulnerable as long as they stick together. The only counter is another large group to cause such severe lag that everyone just gives up.

So if a group were to run though a and get wiped one siege. Have a sorcerer Negate the breach cause I remember those days of getting higher killing blows then the raid fighting cause I was up in the inner running three trebuchets one shotting people left and right. It was crazy that even with the TTK being crazy low that I got the most kills from siege.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2015

Waseem wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Siege is fine. If I could buy one shot weapons for miniscule amounts of AP I don't know why I even need abilities on my bar at that point. Siege is used as support dps/debuff which is the proper place for it regarding Player vs. Player fights.

Player vs Player ??? Oh you mean Zerg vs Zerg. Yea sorry no nice opinion but sieges need buffed to kill zergs cause how it is right now with sieges is who ever is the larger group wins which means say like 6 guys who are at a keep suddenly get attacked by a group of 20. They are doomed because they clearly can fight them 20 on 6 so all they have to depend on is siege weapons but oh wait siege weapons hit just like nerf guns.

so do you want 6 people to win over 20? or you want to backstabbing keeps capturing and ruin the intended feature and fun of cyrodiil?

That sounds like a lot but that's a three to one fight most of us can 1v3 people AoE snares and debuffs with Tab targeted single target attacks 1v3 is a winnable fight for most. Outside of three gankers getting the jump on you other wise hit the guy healing first and DPS second.

reften · October 2015

rich.magab14a_ESO wrote: »

reften wrote: »

rich.magab14a_ESO wrote: »

reften wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Siege doesn't benefit the zergs. If it went back to it's prior damage level and incorporated some non-purgeable elements, it would be useful against spammy zerg groups. Those groups rely on tight bunching and would be vulnerable. They don't use siege against players.

Heck most of the zerg groups barely siege walls these days. They are happy to run around keeps farming anyone that tries to engage them. And when they try and siege is the only point they are vulnerable (because they are no longer stacked with heals, purges and massive damage to anyone who gets close).

Small groups and solos, on the other hand, can use siege. Most semi skilled players can run multiple siege weapons. A group of 5 or so can lay down enough siege to come close to the siege limit. Now if only there was a reason to use siege.

Yup

I have said my piece on this numerous time....Siege needs to be a heavy hitter...it needs to hit HARD, it needs to go back to 1.6 Damage levels with a few unpurgable elements(Meatbags and Oil Catapults should not be purgeable) Oil Cata's were instrumental in fighting larger groups back in the day, sadly thats no longer the case.

This would do a lot to help there server too as these large zerg groups would be killable.

Its a fallacy that someone is more skillful because they run a large group, bunch together, and use certain skills, its also equally a fallancy that someone is a noob because they could kill you with siege. These are both illogical positions to hold.

siege right now is useless, A Fire Ballista hits for like 5k, Wrecking Blow hits for 9k.....there is something really wrong with that....

Disagree. I run with 16-20, we're well organized. You boost siege damage, we're going to constantly designate 4 party members to setup, fire, then take down siege, and make our group even more powerful. Additionally, we'd change our tactics to have a spread stack (we did this when many of us WERE vamps and could be one shotted by fire trebs)

See how this works? Careful what you wish for. The constant desire to make single players more power against zergs (see prox det) is making the "zergs" (or, players who have learned to play that get called zergs) even more powerful.

your scenarios really only apply to open field combat or on a resource. Even then the winner of that battle is mostly dictated on who has the best position for siege placement. Increased siege damage for defending keeps benefits small groups the most.

So not true, I was specifically talking about seiging keeps. Can get siege in tight spaces easily.

the defender will always have the benefit of being able to put up siege in the right places first, especially defending the inner. So the attacking group is going to have to take a good amount of damage deal with attacking players and npcs. With increased siege damage a well coordinated siege attack will take out a group right on the breach

Agree to disagree here. I think you're underestimating how a well coordinated assault group could adapt to nerfs and buffs to siege, skills, etc etc.

The short is this - ANY advantage you give to a single player to hurt groups....is also an advantage you've given to individuals within that group you're complaining about.

hammayolettuce · October 2015

I'll say it again for those who missed it.

Siege is fine as it is. Siege is not the answer to stopping the zerg meta. In fact, it would only hurt small groups even more and make them nonexistent if siege were to be buffed and make zerging that much more prominent.

Crown · October 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Cost: Raise the cost of siege it should be a weapon that everyone shouldn't have a bank full of. I'm talking five or six time the cost they are now level tens should not be able to walk in to Cyrodiil day one and buy siege.

I agree with much of what you said, though making siege cost prohibitive to new players doesn't make sense to me. I've gone into BwB to teach new people for an hour or two every few weeks for the past year. Every time there are more than a few who need me to give them siege as their AP pool is close to zero.

Just buying repair kits for many of them is way too expensive. I've helped many friendlies by giving them a few hundred thousand AP worth of repair kits, and it's gotten to the point where as soon as I say something in zone I get whispered requests for them. You wouldn't believe how many walls and doors in BwB are left almost down (first repair at 25%) because people couldn't afford repair kits. That's not right...

God_flakes · October 2015

Manoekin wrote: »

Siege is fine. If I could buy one shot weapons for miniscule amounts of AP I don't know why I even need abilities on my bar at that point. Siege is used as support dps/debuff which is the proper place for it regarding Player vs. Player fights.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Nobody should be able to one shot someone with a machine when they can't do the same with their skills/abilities. I am grateful they toned down the damage. It was ridiculously stupidly high before.

God_flakes · October 2015

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Siege doesn't benefit the zergs. If it went back to it's prior damage level and incorporated some non-purgeable elements, it would be useful against spammy zerg groups. Those groups rely on tight bunching and would be vulnerable. They don't use siege against players.

Heck most of the zerg groups barely siege walls these days. They are happy to run around keeps farming anyone that tries to engage them. And when they try and siege is the only point they are vulnerable (because they are no longer stacked with heals, purges and massive damage to anyone who gets close).

Small groups and solos, on the other hand, can use siege. Most semi skilled players can run multiple siege weapons. A group of 5 or so can lay down enough siege to come close to the siege limit. Now if only there was a reason to use siege.

Yup

I have said my piece on this numerous time....Siege needs to be a heavy hitter...it needs to hit HARD, it needs to go back to 1.6 Damage levels with a few unpurgable elements(Meatbags and Oil Catapults should not be purgeable) Oil Cata's were instrumental in fighting larger groups back in the day, sadly thats no longer the case.

This would do a lot to help there server too as these large zerg groups would be killable.

Its a fallacy that someone is more skillful because they run a large group, bunch together, and use certain skills, its also equally a fallancy that someone is a noob because they could kill you with siege. These are both illogical positions to hold.

siege right now is useless, A Fire Ballista hits for like 5k, Wrecking Blow hits for 9k.....there is something really wrong with that....

Nerf wrecking blow. (Sorry I couldn't resist!)

reften · October 2015

Crown wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Cost: Raise the cost of siege it should be a weapon that everyone shouldn't have a bank full of. I'm talking five or six time the cost they are now level tens should not be able to walk in to Cyrodiil day one and buy siege.

I agree with much of what you said, though making siege cost prohibitive to new players doesn't make sense to me. I've gone into BwB to teach new people for an hour or two every few weeks for the past year. Every time there are more than a few who need me to give them siege as their AP pool is close to zero.

Just buying repair kits for many of them is way too expensive. I've helped many friendlies by giving them a few hundred thousand AP worth of repair kits, and it's gotten to the point where as soon as I say something in zone I get whispered requests for them. You wouldn't believe how many walls and doors in BwB are left almost down (first repair at 25%) because people couldn't afford repair kits. That's not right...

I do like the idea of bringing back FCs at a cost of 100,000 AP each...and make their range limited so blood porting isn't an option.

But agree, you make basic siege items too expensive, even if you increase the damage, you'll be hurting the newer players...and giving a huge advantage to the veteran PvPers who are sitting with millions of AP in the bank.

RinaldoGandolphi · October 2015

Everyone says "More powerful Siege will make a zerg more powerful" thats simply not true:

1. The first thing they need to do is increase the pack and unpack times by 35% the entire pain train relies on SPEED and ORGANIZATION, laying siege that packs and unpacks 35% slower is actually counter intuitive to the entire premise, unless your willing to leave your siege operators behind to be easy prey to being killed by Nightblades and Gankers.If you slow down and wait for them, your allowing the enemy to back base and reinforce, so which is it?

2. Buffing siege is not about open field battles its about keep defenses. If siege fire is capable of making charging a breech a death sentence(Like it was at launch), then the siege is doing its job as a "defensive tool" to allow outnumbered people to buy time instead of being zerged over by 5 to 6 times their numbers...face it...thats what keep battles have devolved into outside of a last battle for Emp keep....it always the Blue/Red/Yellow zerg of 35-40 overruns 3-5 defenders in a few secs, the defenders have no way to delay...the only keeps that

Manoekin wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Siege doesn't benefit the zergs. If it went back to it's prior damage level and incorporated some non-purgeable elements, it would be useful against spammy zerg groups. Those groups rely on tight bunching and would be vulnerable. They don't use siege against players.

Heck most of the zerg groups barely siege walls these days. They are happy to run around keeps farming anyone that tries to engage them. And when they try and siege is the only point they are vulnerable (because they are no longer stacked with heals, purges and massive damage to anyone who gets close).

Small groups and solos, on the other hand, can use siege. Most semi skilled players can run multiple siege weapons. A group of 5 or so can lay down enough siege to come close to the siege limit. Now if only there was a reason to use siege.

Yup

I have said my piece on this numerous time....Siege needs to be a heavy hitter...it needs to hit HARD, it needs to go back to 1.6 Damage levels with a few unpurgable elements(Meatbags and Oil Catapults should not be purgeable) Oil Cata's were instrumental in fighting larger groups back in the day, sadly thats no longer the case.

This would do a lot to help there server too as these large zerg groups would be killable.

Its a fallacy that someone is more skillful because they run a large group, bunch together, and use certain skills, its also equally a fallancy that someone is a noob because they could kill you with siege. These are both illogical positions to hold.

siege right now is useless, A Fire Ballista hits for like 5k, Wrecking Blow hits for 9k.....there is something really wrong with that....

No, it's illogical to base a player's skill level off of their preferred play style.

Also, a fire ballista does a lot more damage than a wrecking blow because a fire ballista can hit an unlimited amount of targets for 100% damage. If you're comparing single target damage then you're just doing it wrong, and I question your level of skill and knowledge in this game.

Last post in this thread because it's turning into an idiot's paradise... We've had 1.6 siege damage and we all saw what happened. We've had unpurgeable oil catapults and we all saw what happened. It benefits the zerg. No, a zerg is not 16-20 people. That's a raid group. The zerg is the 40+ people that end up surrounding that 16-20 with a dozen meatbags, fire ballistas, oil catapults. Somehow we've come far enough that the organized raid group is more vilified than the 40+ zerg group that prominent small group players that participate in certain streams join in with the 40+ and start raging and sending us whispers about how we are the ones zerging. Is this some sort of massive troll conspiracy that people participating in a fight with a 2:1 advantage have any right to claim the other side is unskilled or doing something bad? Surely this can't be the case.

Siege is still good, you're just all using it wrong.

Everyone is just using it wrong!? thats rich!

Im not vilifying anyone. However anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot(your own words) so having any type of constructive conversation with you is pointless. The same way keep defenses are right now pointless without an equal size zerg...but thats exactly what you want so i wouldn';t expect you to want anything different.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224023/zergs-dont-realize-they-are-zergs/p1

Sabre Ali summed it up.

The sad thing is you don't realize is

The Chalmo

Gather 'round, proud warriors all,
Silent now and standing tall.
Bow your heads to those who sleep,
Beneath the ground of Chalman Keep.

The flames of war seared the land,
Crushing all with brutal hand.
Dominion soldiers sought the throne,
Chalman, undaunted, stood alone.

Hooves thundered o'er the sward,
Death neared for all, swift and hard.
Defender's stood upon Chalman's Wall,
Warriors brave, Covenant heroes all.

Forward came the Dominion hordes,
With arcane spells and gleaming swords.
Walls shook to siege engine's roars,
Rams thundered upon keep doors.

The outer doors fell to the invaders' barrage,
Into the courtyard Elves and Khajiit charged.
The inner doo too gave when assaulted,
O'er bodies and rubble attackers vaulted.

The defenders made their might felt,
Spells flared forth, death was dealt.
Fury rained upon invaders' heads,
'til Elves and Khajiit all were dead.

No time to rest, no time to heal,
Doors and breaches they must seal.
All was repaired, the damage undone,
As another deadly assault was begun.

Once again, fierce battle was fought.
Death was granted where it was sought.
Entropy rose inside the keep,
Swept over all, piled the bodies deep.

Again the bloody tide receded,
Dominion foes once more defeated.
Orc and Redguard and Breton remained,
Proud survivors of Chalman Keep again.

Dominion warriors attacked once more,
In numbers far greater than ever before.
They battered aside the weary defenders,
Stopped only in the innermost chambers.

Into the apse the heroes were hounded,
Dominion victory cries loudly sounded.
Then chaos erupted as the Pact swept in,
seeing their enemies' forces worn thin.

Caught between fierce anvil and hammer,
Elf and Khajiit died in brave manner.
Only Pact and Covenant soon remained,
Then the defenders cleared the field again.

A breath, a pause, a brief respite,
The Covenant cause now truly desperate.
A final assault the Dominion did mount,
A massive wave, too many to count.

Determined to conquer, refusing to desist,
The Dominion force impossible to resist.
The defenders resolved to fight to the last,
No blow was wasted, no spell shoddily cast.

One by one the gallant warriors fell,
Breton, Redguard and Orc died well.
Their lives given up for Chalman Keep,
They rest forever in honored sleep.

The Dominion banner rose over the hall,
A Dominion emperor then ruled over all.
Peace came to Chalman, damage repaired.
Attackers dispersed, to other sites they fared.

That emperor is gone, his reign long past.
What remains of this day? What of it lasts?
Just the display of courage, in that final stand,
Of those who stood and died at Chalman.

Is no longer possible because of the current state siege is in...DC was outnumber some 100 to 20 and they held and held and held..its the greatest fight in ESO history, its what finally sold me on the game...and it was only possible because siege is not in the pathetic garbage state its in currently.

Whatever though, and Fengrush is right

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/223549/aoe-cap-lord-fengrush-hits-it-on-the-head/p1

Its nonsense 16-40 man groups only take half damage because of an AOE cap, of course you should run in a large group, your taking half damage most of the time and the only thing that is the exception to that rule is siege, you said it yourself, of course the zergs don't want anyone having access to something that might hit those groups for full damage.

These large groups of 16-40 live under the protection of a 50% damage reduction and the only thing not effected by that is siege and they have made sure it stays nerfed, and they don't want purge capped or touched because it will allow others to counter them.

ZOS will never remove the AOE cap, its unfair large groups get a 50% damage reduction, Siege is the only thing not effected by that cap, it MUST be better then it is now as a counter and to make defending an objective viable, and Purge needs to be nerfed its too darn good, it needs addressed.

Im not going to discuss this any further, there is no need for this to go into the personal realm, I will not level insults at you like you did to me and anyone else who doesn't agree with you.

This conversation has gone beyond the realm of productive discussion and i find it best to end it here.

Good luck to you

CJohnson81 · October 2015

reften wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Siege doesn't benefit the zergs. If it went back to it's prior damage level and incorporated some non-purgeable elements, it would be useful against spammy zerg groups. Those groups rely on tight bunching and would be vulnerable. They don't use siege against players.

Heck most of the zerg groups barely siege walls these days. They are happy to run around keeps farming anyone that tries to engage them. And when they try and siege is the only point they are vulnerable (because they are no longer stacked with heals, purges and massive damage to anyone who gets close).

Small groups and solos, on the other hand, can use siege. Most semi skilled players can run multiple siege weapons. A group of 5 or so can lay down enough siege to come close to the siege limit. Now if only there was a reason to use siege.

Yup

I have said my piece on this numerous time....Siege needs to be a heavy hitter...it needs to hit HARD, it needs to go back to 1.6 Damage levels with a few unpurgable elements(Meatbags and Oil Catapults should not be purgeable) Oil Cata's were instrumental in fighting larger groups back in the day, sadly thats no longer the case.

This would do a lot to help there server too as these large zerg groups would be killable.

Its a fallacy that someone is more skillful because they run a large group, bunch together, and use certain skills, its also equally a fallancy that someone is a noob because they could kill you with siege. These are both illogical positions to hold.

siege right now is useless, A Fire Ballista hits for like 5k, Wrecking Blow hits for 9k.....there is something really wrong with that....

Disagree. I run with 16-20, we're well organized. You boost siege damage, we're going to constantly designate 4 party members to setup, fire, then take down siege, and make our group even more powerful. Additionally, we'd change our tactics to have a spread stack (we did this when many of us WERE vamps and could be one shotted by fire trebs)

See how this works? Careful what you wish for. The constant desire to make single players more power against zergs (see prox det) is making the "zergs" (or, players who have learned to play that get called zergs) even more powerful.

I agree with you, but I actaully see your warning as something to be excited about. The game should favor strategy, no matter the size of the group. I think it should be possible for organized small teams to strategically use siege to bust a zerg.

Now, if that group happens to be 20 highly skilled and disciplined players, well, then you just fired on the wrong group and you best prepare your nether regions for an invasion. Flipside - if you're laying down mortar fire on a bunch of low levels all bunched up in a clearing and you take them out, well, you're a hero. :-)

I think of it like this - a lvl 16Vet should be able to hack away a good number of low level zerg before being overrun. That same vet vs 20 other lvl 16 vets shouldn't have a chance.

Forestd16b14_ESO · October 2015

Waseem wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Siege is fine. If I could buy one shot weapons for miniscule amounts of AP I don't know why I even need abilities on my bar at that point. Siege is used as support dps/debuff which is the proper place for it regarding Player vs. Player fights.

Player vs Player ??? Oh you mean Zerg vs Zerg. Yea sorry no nice opinion but sieges need buffed to kill zergs cause how it is right now with sieges is who ever is the larger group wins which means say like 6 guys who are at a keep suddenly get attacked by a group of 20. They are doomed because they clearly can fight them 20 on 6 so all they have to depend on is siege weapons but oh wait siege weapons hit just like nerf guns.

so do you want 6 people to win over 20? or you want to backstabbing keeps capturing and ruin the intended feature and fun of cyrodiil?

No just for those 6 to have a chance at defending the keep instead of just becoming AP food for the group of 20. If the group of 20 are smart and organized yes they'll take the keep no problem regardless of the siege but if there just mindless blob of AP farmers they'll die and the 6 have defended the keep from AP farmers.

Winterpsy · October 2015

Prepatch coldfire siege weapons were pretty much wrecking everyone due to a bug, where the target could not see the red circle.
Now with that fixed,they are still dangerous, however they are far from frightening anymore.

Pre patch a shot of fire ballista took enemy players to the brink of death easily when burning was unpurged. We learned the art of dodging, so unless you were caught in some oil field it was avoidable.

Now, dodging is mostly useless knowing sieges wont really hurt.

There should be a bit of balance found in between the states. Between the utter uselessness and shotgun in a toddler's hand.
Holding gaps with a single ballista is very fun, strategy on both sides it demands.
Atm it cannot be done anymore.
Sneaking a siege behind enemy siege line and bombing them down from there?
Putting up ballista by enemy reinforcment routes where we spotted them coming en masse?

All these tactics are gone.

hammayolettuce · October 2015

Only siege change needed is keep friendly circles to show and remove the enemy circles so you can see siege incoming.

Other than that, siege is perfect the way it is as it will only kill small groups by buffing the dmg they do and make zerging much worse.