I've actually indirectly mentioned the issue of Toggles here:

Should Toggles Be Changed To Long Duration Click Abilities?

What surprises me here is that 2/3 of the voters seem to like toggles, although they've not given any actual feedback. I agree with you that toggles are stupid. I'd rather see magelight get fired off and forgotten for 30 seconds. I don't like the inherent laziness of toggles, or the way it forces people to slot them on two bars. I'd rather see clanfears get summoned and then despawn once they timed out. I'd rather see bound armor appear and vanish when it times out. This would give those powers more of the otherworldly feel that was present since Morrowind. (My opinion anyway).

I have to say I'm inclined to agree about the lightning staff as well, it is a lot more awkward to use.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I've actually indirectly mentioned the issue of Toggles here:

Should Toggles Be Changed To Long Duration Click Abilities?

What surprises me here is that 2/3 of the voters seem to like toggles, although they've not given any actual feedback. I agree with you that toggles are stupid. I'd rather see magelight get fired off and forgotten for 30 seconds. I don't like the inherent laziness of toggles, or the way it forces people to slot them on two bars. I'd rather see clanfears get summoned and then despawn once they timed out. I'd rather see bound armor appear and vanish when it times out. This would give those powers more of the otherworldly feel that was present since Morrowind. (My opinion anyway).

I have to say I'm inclined to agree about the lightning staff as well, it is a lot more awkward to use.

Looks like we see eye to eye philosophically here. I respect the ZoS philosophy that toggles ought to be in the game because there are people out there that appreciate and value them. The poll suggests they are correct.

However,

Toggles should be an option, not a requirement. The pet morphs should have been: 1) toggled version that does continuous and modest good stuff and 2) summoned version that lasts for a short duration whose effects are more impactful. Or make one pet a toggle and the other a non toggle. Give us a choice.

Bound Aegis is a tricky one because in this game, anything that scales your magicka pool upward is real power that you cannot derive from regular spells. By not using that skill, I am willingly tossing away 8% of maximum magicka that I can not recover through other means. If the other skills I were able to use for not slotting bound aegis were competitive (I'm looking at you mines, encase, daedric curse, theoretical non-toggled pet, etc.), then perhaps that gap could be closed.

CP5 wrote: »

@dodgehopper_ESO, as much as I dislike toggles taking up my skill bars, it would be a royal pain to keep my clannfear around if it needed any more managing than it does now.

The cast time could possibly improved to suit by getting rid of the toggle effect.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Obligatory disclaimer: Yes, my sorcerer is the strongest class in PvP and I too think it is ridiculous that I can just stack magicka and have defense, mobility, and firepower. It's in fun though

This is mostly a PvE gripe list, because I do not find the class fun to play competitively in that environment.

• My competitive DPS is entirely dependent on a specific ultimate (that synergizes too ridiculously with a specific undaunted set). To the counter that "so is a DK's," my retort is that at least the DK drops her ultiamte (and a cool one at that, none of the pew-pew nonsense) and still does her thing. A sorcerer just stands there light attacking away. *Yawn*.
• The storm atronachs I summon are the rejects from Oblivion. Why can't mine move? Why can't mine fire off those cool AoEs? Why can my ultimate be completely eliminated by a regular skill such as fossilize? My raid leader once laughed when a inexperienced enemy sorcerer used this ultimate on us.
• Enemy bosses gain immunity to my mines. Why? Is it compelling game design to punish a sorcerer for moving, anticipating correctly, using tactics skillfully? Why am I just expected to just pew-pew from a distance?
• My competitive DPs is entirely dependent on toggles. I really dislike the fact that I have to slot bound aegis on both of my bars to compete with other players. Whatever happened to play as you want? I want to play with skill variety and being able to look at the armor I spent so much time crafting and dying, thank you!
• In every RPG I ever played, I *loved* the concept of the summoner. But not this one! Why are *both* of our pets toggles? Why can't I just summon stuff and have them do their thing without babysitting them?
• Why can I only have one deadric curse active? How about we make it so Nightblades can only do 1 surprise attack every 6 seconds and see how they feel about it.
• The Encase skill drive me nuts! It is too skinny. It is an AoE, but does not effect dodge rollers. The damage morph does not proc if players CC break it (which means never). In no longer synergizes with:
• You took away my best passive: exploitation. Give me back a reason to use my crappy encase skill!
• My lightning splash skill is useless in PvP because it's all about burst damage, the 50% battle spitit nerf makes the damage negligible compared to health regeneration, and the champion system passive resilient undermines fast ticking DoTs.
• We are encouraged to use the worst of the elemental staffs, lightning. We are stuck with light animation cancels, a heavy attack passive that is bugged (nearby enemies do not take damage), and now lost the one saving grace, being able to actually hit dodge-rollers and perma-blockers.
• To play competitively, I have to visit my local blacksmith and use two swords! Play as you want? No, I lose 700 spell damage if I use a staff. Change your slogan to "Play as you want and get Rekt for doing so!"
• I still don't think it is fair our shields scale with our best stat whereas Templars and DKs, well, let's just say those kill quests aren't that particularly difficult to complete.

Since you said you'd reevaluate where the DK stands after the Orsimium update, how about making the sorcerer class something more than a overload spammer dependent on toggles?

Thank You!

Templar, stacks Magicka> Gets more damage, stronger heals, stronger Magicka shields
Nightblade, stacks Magicka> Gets more damage, stronger heals, more cloak, stronger Magick shields
Stamina builds, stack Stamina> Gets more damage, more blocks, more dodge roll, stronger Vigor heals
etc etc.

Your argument couldn't be more wrong. I'm tired of people claiming, that Sorcerer is the only class benefiting from increasing his offensive ressource. it's just WRONG. Each class and each spec highly profits from putting more in offensive ressources, some classes even benefit from putting everything into health.

Just stop already
Luckily I did not stop reading after this non-sense statement of yours and can gladly agree to the rest of your thread.

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Don't hate on Overload. It's the one thing I still enjoy using with the class and it's broken enough as it is. Damn man, it's not all that bad.

And the comment at the end about scaling shields was a low blow! That crap has been done so many times it'd make a *** blush.

Giving Templars and Dragonknights Magicka scaled shields, is like giving a strong burst heal to Sorcerer on top of their solid class shield.

Exactly.

That topic has just been discussed so many times in so many places...it's fine the way it is, not all classes are the same, nor are similar abilities.

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Don't hate on Overload. It's the one thing I still enjoy using with the class and it's broken enough as it is. Damn man, it's not all that bad.

And the comment at the end about scaling shields was a low blow! That crap has been done so many times it'd make a *** blush.

Giving Templars and Dragonknights Magicka scaled shields, is like giving a strong burst heal to Sorcerer on top of their solid class shield.

Exactly.

That topic has just been discussed so many times in so many places...it's fine the way it is, not all classes are the same, nor are similar abilities.

Right. And Sorcerer might have a good Magicka class should. But tell me, is this enough for a Sorcerer to survive ? No, he needs Annulment and actually even healing ward on top in order to compensate for not having class heals.

Templars and Dragonknights have access to both of these. So they have 2 very strong Magicka shields AND class self heals and their other defensive utility and despite what other people say, both of their class shields have very strong utility either, besides adding some shield. Not our problem if everyone refuses to use these.
I say it again: You can't just look at your class abilities and call it a day. You need to look at non class abilties and how they synergize with your class.

Vigor makes Stamblades OP, healing ward makes Magickablades and Sorcs OP. Etc
Each class has some actually even broken synergies with certain non class abilities. Most recent one shot compilations show you everything you need to know.

Sorcs have the ability to kite, burst, and tank every other magicka specced class in the game. All thru stacking magic, aka damage. If a magicka sorc dies to a magblade then either a huge mistake was made by the sorc, or the NB was just a better player.

I would just like to see a bit more parity in the field of magicka builds. Magicka temps got heals but no mobility or burst. Magicka DK's have... scales? Let me get back to you on that... Magblades have mobility and burst, but this burst comes at close range - much greater risk for a marginal at best advantage over sorc burst. And they have to navigate thru those lovely immobilizing mines as a magic build with poor stamina. Magic sorcs have bulk, ranged burst, and mobility. And mines.

Please enlighten me on who you think the magicka master class is.

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Don't hate on Overload. It's the one thing I still enjoy using with the class and it's broken enough as it is. Damn man, it's not all that bad.

And the comment at the end about scaling shields was a low blow! That crap has been done so many times it'd make a *** blush.

Giving Templars and Dragonknights Magicka scaled shields, is like giving a strong burst heal to Sorcerer on top of their solid class shield.

Exactly.

That topic has just been discussed so many times in so many places...it's fine the way it is, not all classes are the same, nor are similar abilities.

Right. And Sorcerer might have a good Magicka class should. But tell me, is this enough for a Sorcerer to survive ? No, he needs Annulment and actually even healing ward on top in order to compensate for not having class heals.

Templars and Dragonknights have access to both of these. So they have 2 very strong Magicka shields AND class self heals and their other defensive utility and despite what other people say, both of their class shields have very strong utility either, besides adding some shield. Not our problem if everyone refuses to use these.
I say it again: You can't just look at your class abilities and call it a day. You need to look at non class abilties and how they synergize with your class.

Vigor makes Stamblades OP, healing ward makes Magickablades and Sorcs OP. Etc

Not our problem you refuse to use exchange, clannfear, vigor, rally or the blood magic passive. No that wouldn't help with healing at all would it?

What on earth are you talking about, Sorcs don't have heals? I heal myself on my sorc all the time. The reason you shield stack is because its so EASY to do.

I'm of the opinions that all Shield and Armor buffs should be based on the Health of the receiver (whether the power is a self shield or a healer-based shield). If someone goes all in on damage attributes, there needs to be a COST to that. As it stands the true Tank build is getting shortchanged pretty hard in the current patch of the game. There needs to be a way to avoid having someone be a tank and a glass cannon at the same time, and that's the problem that existed with shield stacking.

Ezareth wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Don't hate on Overload. It's the one thing I still enjoy using with the class and it's broken enough as it is. Damn man, it's not all that bad.

And the comment at the end about scaling shields was a low blow! That crap has been done so many times it'd make a *** blush.

Giving Templars and Dragonknights Magicka scaled shields, is like giving a strong burst heal to Sorcerer on top of their solid class shield.

Exactly.

That topic has just been discussed so many times in so many places...it's fine the way it is, not all classes are the same, nor are similar abilities.

Right. And Sorcerer might have a good Magicka class should. But tell me, is this enough for a Sorcerer to survive ? No, he needs Annulment and actually even healing ward on top in order to compensate for not having class heals.

Templars and Dragonknights have access to both of these. So they have 2 very strong Magicka shields AND class self heals and their other defensive utility and despite what other people say, both of their class shields have very strong utility either, besides adding some shield. Not our problem if everyone refuses to use these.
I say it again: You can't just look at your class abilities and call it a day. You need to look at non class abilties and how they synergize with your class.

Vigor makes Stamblades OP, healing ward makes Magickablades and Sorcs OP. Etc
Each class has some actually even broken synergies with certain non class abilities. Most recent one shot compilations show you everything you need to know.

Sorcs have the ability to kite, burst, and tank every other magicka specced class in the game. All thru stacking magic, aka damage. If a magicka sorc dies to a magblade then either a huge mistake was made by the sorc, or the NB was just a better player.

I would just like to see a bit more parity in the field of magicka builds. Magicka temps got heals but no mobility or burst. Magicka DK's have... scales? Let me get back to you on that... Magblades have mobility and burst, but this burst comes at close range - much greater risk for a marginal at best advantage over sorc burst. And they have to navigate thru those lovely immobilizing mines as a magic build with poor stamina. Magic sorcs have bulk, ranged burst, and mobility. And mines.

Please enlighten me on who you think the magicka master class is.

The magicka master class damage is as it should be...the sorc.

Magicka nightblades are like Stamina sorcs. Good players can make them them work, but they're really outperformed by other purebred builds. You should be running purge in PvP (for mark) regardless, so the mine root should be a huge deal.

And if you still think magicka sorcs have great mobility you must not be trying to chase one down.

I can't really disagree with anything you said, other than the "as it should be." I don't think any class should be the de facto Magicka Master Class. No class should be the stamina master class either, and with regards to stamina the situation is much more balanced (WB, anyone?).

Edit - I see now you said "master damage class" which is different, but along with that superior damage they enjoy considerable tankiness vs other magicka builds.

Dracane wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Don't hate on Overload. It's the one thing I still enjoy using with the class and it's broken enough as it is. Damn man, it's not all that bad.

And the comment at the end about scaling shields was a low blow! That crap has been done so many times it'd make a *** blush.

Giving Templars and Dragonknights Magicka scaled shields, is like giving a strong burst heal to Sorcerer on top of their solid class shield.

Exactly.

That topic has just been discussed so many times in so many places...it's fine the way it is, not all classes are the same, nor are similar abilities.

Right. And Sorcerer might have a good Magicka class should. But tell me, is this enough for a Sorcerer to survive ? No, he needs Annulment and actually even healing ward on top in order to compensate for not having class heals.

Templars and Dragonknights have access to both of these. So they have 2 very strong Magicka shields AND class self heals and their other defensive utility and despite what other people say, both of their class shields have very strong utility either, besides adding some shield. Not our problem if everyone refuses to use these.
I say it again: You can't just look at your class abilities and call it a day. You need to look at non class abilties and how they synergize with your class.

Vigor makes Stamblades OP, healing ward makes Magickablades and Sorcs OP. Etc
Each class has some actually even broken synergies with certain non class abilities. Most recent one shot compilations show you everything you need to know.

Sorcs have the ability to kite, burst, and tank every other magicka specced class in the game. All thru stacking magic, aka damage. If a magicka sorc dies to a magblade then either a huge mistake was made by the sorc, or the NB was just a better player.

I would just like to see a bit more parity in the field of magicka builds. Magicka temps got heals but no mobility or burst. Magicka DK's have... scales? Let me get back to you on that... Magblades have mobility and burst, but this burst comes at close range - much greater risk for a marginal at best advantage over sorc burst. And they have to navigate thru those lovely immobilizing mines as a magic build with poor stamina. Magic sorcs have bulk, ranged burst, and mobility. And mines.

Please enlighten me on who you think the magicka master class is.

Same goes back to the Nightblade. A good Magicka Nightblade can be as tanky. There are Magicka Nightblades, that I could NEVER ever kill. I can time all my burst, it will not work. Because healing ward, Annulment and cloak combined.
Only if the nightblade does a huge mistake. Balanced, right ?

And yes, Templars DO have burst. Great burst in fact, go figure.

I think, Magicka Sorcerer is the best allround Magicka class. But this is how it's supposed to be, Sorcs are the worst when it comes to stamina by a large margin. And I'm fine with this, Sorcerer should keep its magicka title, but should perform worse with stamina than the other classes. That's why I avoid to give my opinion on stamina Sorc topics.

Ezareth wrote: »

And if you still think magicka sorcs have great mobility you must not be trying to chase one down.

This It's extremely easy. If he is one of these dump Sorcs ( am one of these, not ashamed to confess it) that spams bolt "escape" to "escape", then it's in your favor. Let him burst his Magicka pool with a few blinks, just follow him and enjoy your free AP.

Boundless storm helps Sorcerer to stay mobile these days, but it's not enough in my opinion. Sadly, I don't have space on my bar for boundless storm at the moment. Pet build you know ?

Still not seeing the insane mag Templar burst here... And magblades can't be as bulky as mag sorcs, they can be plenty tricky though, even with curse breaking cloak.

I would like parity among magicka and stamina builds across classes, but I suppose it could be worse.

And I'll never give up on my stamina sorc

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Don't hate on Overload. It's the one thing I still enjoy using with the class and it's broken enough as it is. Damn man, it's not all that bad.

And the comment at the end about scaling shields was a low blow! That crap has been done so many times it'd make a *** blush.

Giving Templars and Dragonknights Magicka scaled shields, is like giving a strong burst heal to Sorcerer on top of their solid class shield.

Exactly.

That topic has just been discussed so many times in so many places...it's fine the way it is, not all classes are the same, nor are similar abilities.

Right. And Sorcerer might have a good Magicka class should. But tell me, is this enough for a Sorcerer to survive ? No, he needs Annulment and actually even healing ward on top in order to compensate for not having class heals.

Templars and Dragonknights have access to both of these. So they have 2 very strong Magicka shields AND class self heals and their other defensive utility and despite what other people say, both of their class shields have very strong utility either, besides adding some shield. Not our problem if everyone refuses to use these.
I say it again: You can't just look at your class abilities and call it a day. You need to look at non class abilties and how they synergize with your class.

Vigor makes Stamblades OP, healing ward makes Magickablades and Sorcs OP. Etc
Each class has some actually even broken synergies with certain non class abilities. Most recent one shot compilations show you everything you need to know.

Sorcs have the ability to kite, burst, and tank every other magicka specced class in the game. All thru stacking magic, aka damage. If a magicka sorc dies to a magblade then either a huge mistake was made by the sorc, or the NB was just a better player.

I would just like to see a bit more parity in the field of magicka builds. Magicka temps got heals but no mobility or burst. Magicka DK's have... scales? Let me get back to you on that... Magblades have mobility and burst, but this burst comes at close range - much greater risk for a marginal at best advantage over sorc burst. And they have to navigate thru those lovely immobilizing mines as a magic build with poor stamina. Magic sorcs have bulk, ranged burst, and mobility. And mines.

Please enlighten me on who you think the magicka master class is.

The magicka master class damage is as it should be...the sorc.

Magicka nightblades are like Stamina sorcs. Good players can make them them work, but they're really outperformed by other purebred builds. You should be running purge in PvP (for mark) regardless, so the mine root should be a huge deal.

And if you still think magicka sorcs have great mobility you must not be trying to chase one down.

I can't really disagree with anything you said, other than the "as it should be." I don't think any class should be the de facto Magicka Master Class. No class should be the stamina master class either, and with regards to stamina the situation is much more balanced (WB, anyone?).

Edit - I see now you said "master damage class" which is different, but along with that superior damage they enjoy considerable tankiness vs other magicka builds.

I can't really agree with this. Each class would fit perfectly within the Mages Guild and represent different masters of different schools of magic. The Templar represents Destruction, Restoration and Mysticism. The Sorcerer Represents Destruction (lightning/magic), Mysticism and Conjuration. The DK represents Alteration, Destruction (Fire) and some moderate Restoration (mixed destruction-resto effects or mixed alteration resto effects). The Nightblade Represents the Illusion and Destruction School (things like the Vampire drain spell) and possibly Mysticism (the teleport effects). All of these classes represent schools in the series and there's no reason to assume Sorcerer is the 'best'. The real problem is the class system to begin with, in terms of the past history of the games, but that's what we have. I'm still hoping for Spellcrafting to enter the game, I'm just not holding my breath.

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Obligatory disclaimer: Yes, my sorcerer is the strongest class in PvP and I too think it is ridiculous that I can just stack magicka and have defense, mobility, and firepower. It's in fun though

This is mostly a PvE gripe list, because I do not find the class fun to play competitively in that environment.

• My competitive DPS is entirely dependent on a specific ultimate (that synergizes too ridiculously with a specific undaunted set). To the counter that "so is a DK's," my retort is that at least the DK drops her ultiamte (and a cool one at that, none of the pew-pew nonsense) and still does her thing. A sorcerer just stands there light attacking away. *Yawn*.
• The storm atronachs I summon are the rejects from Oblivion. Why can't mine move? Why can't mine fire off those cool AoEs? Why can my ultimate be completely eliminated by a regular skill such as fossilize? My raid leader once laughed when a inexperienced enemy sorcerer used this ultimate on us.
• Enemy bosses gain immunity to my mines. Why? Is it compelling game design to punish a sorcerer for moving, anticipating correctly, using tactics skillfully? Why am I just expected to just pew-pew from a distance?
• My competitive DPs is entirely dependent on toggles. I really dislike the fact that I have to slot bound aegis on both of my bars to compete with other players. Whatever happened to play as you want? I want to play with skill variety and being able to look at the armor I spent so much time crafting and dying, thank you!
• In every RPG I ever played, I *loved* the concept of the summoner. But not this one! Why are *both* of our pets toggles? Why can't I just summon stuff and have them do their thing without babysitting them?
• Why can I only have one deadric curse active? How about we make it so Nightblades can only do 1 surprise attack every 6 seconds and see how they feel about it.
• The Encase skill drive me nuts! It is too skinny. It is an AoE, but does not effect dodge rollers. The damage morph does not proc if players CC break it (which means never). In no longer synergizes with:
• You took away my best passive: exploitation. Give me back a reason to use my crappy encase skill!
• My lightning splash skill is useless in PvP because it's all about burst damage, the 50% battle spitit nerf makes the damage negligible compared to health regeneration, and the champion system passive resilient undermines fast ticking DoTs.
• We are encouraged to use the worst of the elemental staffs, lightning. We are stuck with light animation cancels, a heavy attack passive that is bugged (nearby enemies do not take damage), and now lost the one saving grace, being able to actually hit dodge-rollers and perma-blockers.
• To play competitively, I have to visit my local blacksmith and use two swords! Play as you want? No, I lose 700 spell damage if I use a staff. Change your slogan to "Play as you want and get Rekt for doing so!"
• I still don't think it is fair our shields scale with our best stat whereas Templars and DKs, well, let's just say those kill quests aren't that particularly difficult to complete.

Since you said you'd reevaluate where the DK stands after the Orsimium update, how about making the sorcerer class something more than a overload spammer dependent on toggles?

Thank You!

Templar, stacks Magicka> Gets more damage, stronger heals, stronger Magicka shields
Nightblade, stacks Magicka> Gets more damage, stronger heals, more cloak, stronger Magick shields
Stamina builds, stack Stamina> Gets more damage, more blocks, more dodge roll, stronger Vigor heals
etc etc.

Your argument couldn't be more wrong. I'm tired of people claiming, that Sorcerer is the only class benefiting from increasing his offensive ressource. it's just WRONG. Each class and each spec highly profits from putting more in offensive ressources, some classes even benefit from putting everything into health.

Just stop already
Luckily I did not stop reading after this non-sense statement of yours and can gladly agree to the rest of your thread.

Can you please go one thread without insisting that the only possible correct way to understand sorcerer shields is your way? You are so closed minded and set in you ways, it is impossible to have a conversation with you.

You are so paranoid that someone might convince ZoS to one down your shields you interpret anything written about the subject as heresy. You sit there and scream at me in CAPS my "argument" couldn't be more "WRONG." I never made an argument. I stated my opinion that a sorcerer's shields should not be unique in scaling to magicka. I did not expand on it because it's not the point of the thread. It's not an argument; it is merely a reiteration of an opinion that others on this forum happen to share. It's not wrong just because it differs from what you think, which is, no matter how fanatically you believe in it, just an opinion as well.

If you are tired of people claiming that sorcerers are the only class benefiting from increasing her resources, I suggest you either splash your face with cold water and wake up, grow thicker skin, or stop reading these forums altogether because that is a valid opinion and expressing it does not violate the term of service. So no, I will not stop. Not today, Not tomorrow. Not because you scream at me. Not ever.

I am not "WRONG" because my analysis of something that is very difficult to quantify or measure contradicts or is different from yours. It is not "non-sense." This isn't math or science where there are laws and theorems that can actually prove things. How is it even possible to have a productive conversation with someone who thinks their opinion is irrefutably correct?

Good writeup OP, I agree with all points.

danno8 wrote: »

Sorcerer shield is better than Templar heal in several ways.

1. They can be used pre-emptively, at any point in the engagement and you always benefit from using them. Heals can only be used effectively when you have already taken damage leaving you open to CC, then burst (which is how you kill a Templar if you didn't know)

2. Shields prevent critical hits, so even though they have no mitigation of their own, this effectively negates AT LEAST 11% extra damage (if your opponent has the minimum 22% crit chance, most will have more)

3.They prevent several mechanics from functioning properly, such as any "on-crit" effect or even any "on damage" effect. Even the effects that ZoS supposedly fixed to work on shields, do not work properly and only provide a weak flat value.

The numerical value of a typical Hardened Ward is the same or greater than the value for your typical BoL.

People who play Sorcerer I have noticed tend to either ignore or underrate these things while playing up the fact that Templar has a class heal. But when comparing the same value shield to a heal, the shield comes out on top.

It may be frustrating to watch a Templar heal from low health back to full over several heals being spammed spam (although a good player will simply time their CC when the Templar starts getting low on health), but it is even more frustrating to hammer on a Sorcerer and watch their health never budge because they always have a strong shield active. Combined with great mobility in Streak/Boundless Storm, it's typically a losing battle.

good post.
any reason to the bolded part?

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

I can't really disagree with anything you said, other than the "as it should be." I don't think any class should be the de facto Magicka Master Class. No class should be the stamina master class either, and with regards to stamina the situation is much more balanced (WB, anyone?).

Edit - I see now you said "master damage class" which is different, but along with that superior damage they enjoy considerable tankiness vs other magicka builds.

Yeah I mainly just trying to say that if a Sorc wasn't the best caster damage out of the 4 classes then something would be wrong with them.

Magicka DKs, and Nightblades should be able to compete with a sorc in many ways and all PvE damage should be balanced to a point but magicka on those classes are both bastardizations of the core of the class. It would be like a Stam sorcs consistently beating Stamina nightblade in melee DPS. Good players can do it but when all else is equal, the stamina nightblade should always come out on top.

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

you can still use fire staff as single target. Lightning are good for aoe, and proccs the magicka return from destro passive. Also destrostaff have spell penetration as passive, so you are not forced to go dual wield. Dont look blindly on spell dmg stats.

Your mines applies a hard CC, and its the same for all classes. Bosses are immune to hard CC, it have nothing to do with your mines. They still take dmg, you gain health back from the passive and it triggers the spell crit passive.

I have heard many good end game sorcs out there that dont use bound aegis. It gives more magicka yes, but you dont have to use it. It costs two skillbars for 8% more magicka, you decide if its worth or not.

The pets are still annoying, I agree with that.

The curse you can well time for a quick oneshot burst in pvp. Not every skill neeeds to be good in pve. Other classes have a bunch of useless pve skills as well.


Good post, but many of your arguments are not valid, sry.

Bosses have an immunity timer to the dmg portion of mines as well. It was in patch notes for 2.1 I believe. If you walk a big hitbox boss into Daedric Minefield, they will only take dmg from ONE mine.