So cloak is to be nerfed, what's next?

Tannakaobi · October 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

terrasight wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

It's called class and skill rebalancing, you shouldn't be able to permanently stay in cloak just like sorcerers can't permanently streak away. Same diff really

You can't permanantly stay in cloak!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is why skills are getting nerfed cos dumb ppl are saying dumb s***

every magica NB can and most stamina blades can out side of combat aswell... (if not they are doing wrong and L2P in terms of gearing & CP spending)

Wrong... u can't permacloak with max. 10k Magicka and Stamblade... don't know why ppl don't get this.

my stam blade at 10.350 magica can do so absolutly fine as i said l2equip and spend your cp porperly...

You can't use CP as a reason NB are OP!

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO · October 2015

It makes no sense at all to nerf their cloak. Nightblades are supposed to be stealthy. That's their appeal. Dark cloak can also be countered and is buggy beyond belief. This nerf cloak movement is more a knee jerk reaction caused by the mashing together of PvE and PvP in the IC expansion.

PvE and PvP do not mix. The players are in two completely different and incompatible frames of mind. The fault is with the IC. Look at cyrodill. The objective is to take a keep. Cloaking and escaping does not help you when the objective is to take the keep. You have to physically kill people. IC is about farming stones and escaping with an emphasis on escaping. Obviously nightblades or any class with extreme movement / escape abilities will be the prime choice.

Zenimax needs to take a cold hard look at what they did with IC.

CP5 · October 2015

Lettigall wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

Can somebody tell or show me the cloak changes please.

I think it's from month old post from Gina:

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/2274406#Comment_2274406

Cloak changes aren't in Orsinium update, in fact it unknown when or if it happens at all but NBs acting like it's 100% confirmed doom of their class.

The funny thing is ZOS so mush as hints, that they may nerf NB's at an unknown time and to likely a very small degree, and instantly we have fourmblades armed and ready to rip apart anyone who dares mention their class and nerfs in the same post. But if ZOS does ever get around to class balancing again it would probably just be karma given how the other classes were nerfed when NB's were able to avoid these unnoticed.

eliisra · October 2015

Ballzy321 wrote: »

I think we all saw this coming. nb's abusing cloak in sewers is what caused this. Don't know why anyone is surprised.

Yes, Cloak is overtuned in IC. But outside if that specific environment, not so much.

Why I wouldn't worry about Cloak getting changed next patch. It's not a main priority, since IC will be fairly empty. Unless Cloak can be abused to speed farm Maelstrom Arena or some PvE grind, no changes will en made.

Maybe they do add some kind of regeneration penalty to Cloak eventually, when re-evaluating class skills, who knows? But not in 2015.

Alucardo · October 2015

vamp_emily wrote: »

[ angry reply ]

[ agrees with everything in angry reply ]

MaxwellC · October 2015

@Tannakaobi I'll give you credit for stating you fought for us DKs but the cloak needs a nerf when it comes to "Holds" like talons. I've talon'd a NB and all he/she does is spam cloak while talon'd; the issue is that I cannot hit nightblades while they're talon'd in cloak.

CP5 · October 2015

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Tannakaobi I'll give you credit for stating you fought for us DKs but the cloak needs a nerf when it comes to "Holds" like talons. I've talon'd a NB and all he/she does is spam cloak while talon'd; the issue is that I cannot hit nightblades while they're talon'd in cloak.

I've done that so many times on my NB. Spam cloak in bad situations to force my enemies attacks to miss or not even fire, then when I have enough stamina roll a few times with more cloak to break los. But remember, the only good thing about cloak is the invisibility part, not the optional purge or crit, or the magicka dodge roll, or the ability to deny your enemies the ability to hit you.

Xantaria · October 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

It's called class and skill rebalancing, you shouldn't be able to permanently stay in cloak just like sorcerers can't permanently streak away. Same diff really

Heathenpride · October 2015

Umad_BrO wrote: »

I am very happy to see nightblades getting nerfed and I am great at the game.
The only class that can take me out is a nightblade and they are in many players opinion the go to character for players that cannot really play the game....a cheat character so to speak.
Good riddance to them.

If a class is a cheat class just because it can beat you then you're missing the point. What you're saying is that you want the most powerful class to be your own? Can we then have you nerfed and call you a cheat?

Ths is why we can't have nice things...

Cherryblossom · October 2015

Strange, I rarely get away using cloak!

Caltrops and Detect pots, also getting hit shortly after casting because someone else had started casting.

It's not an op skill.

But where is the thread saying they are NERFING!

vamp_emily · October 2015

Ballzy321 wrote: »

I think we all saw this coming. nb's abusing cloak in sewers is what caused this. Don't know why anyone is surprised.

[ stabs you with my sword ]

Jade1986 · October 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

It's called class and skill rebalancing, you shouldn't be able to permanently stay in cloak just like sorcerers can't permanently streak away. Same diff really

Yep. No other mmo has ever allowed any class to constantly cloak and have no debuff from it. It is just getting put to where it should be, this really is not a nerf.

Tannakaobi · October 2015

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Tannakaobi I'll give you credit for stating you fought for us DKs but the cloak needs a nerf when it comes to "Holds" like talons. I've talon'd a NB and all he/she does is spam cloak while talon'd; the issue is that I cannot hit nightblades while they're talon'd in cloak.

Now, if this was what the majority of people were saying I would not have a problem. I'd even probably agree. You should need to break free first and in the case of any aoe you should need to be clear.

But it's not. I've seen many reasons, most are about the mana cost and some are just because it's invisibility.

Dakrana_Thrazvoth · October 2015

What's next ? It's simple, if the community always claim nerfs and ZOS follow them, we all fight soon in cyrodiil only with lights attacks and nothing else.

Seriously, I don't undersantd why they claim a nerf for shadow cloak. This is not a spell attack, and without effects like teleport for the sorc (stun, damages...), but for sure this skill need a nerf ?! I play in pvp as NB magicka and this class is really squishy. I can't dodgeroll or break CC often like a stamina build or stay a long time not hidden or I'm dead. This skill is really helpfull for survive
This is the only escape for survive and run when the situation is bad. So many skill can break easly shadow cloak. Before nerf this, think to others solutions, like detect pots are useless since IC with lack of time for effect. Change that in first.

LoreRiley · October 2015

Umad_BrO wrote: »

I am very happy to see nightblades getting nerfed and I am great at the game.
The only class that can take me out is a nightblade and they are in many players opinion the go to character for players that cannot really play the game....a cheat character so to speak.
Good riddance to them.

@Umad_BrO
Reported for being terrible. You just admitted to wanting them nerfed because they can kill you

MaxwellC · October 2015

@Tannakaobi It'a all mainly about the magicka cost of having to spam it (for me it costs around 2.8k per use). I'm a stamina DK with 30k stam and 10k magicka so it especially hurts having to spam it multiple times in a row just to be able to hit a NB for 1 second until they re-cloak while being hold by talons. Imo if you're in a hold ability you should still be able to be attacked rather than being able to sit there; burning talons also provide a DoT.

Sav72 · October 2015

People are complaining about a class ability that does no harm, other then designed to get away from harm...

Is that not what assassins do?

Escape artist....

Nijjion · October 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

People are complaining about a class ability that does no harm, other then designed to get away from harm...

Is that not what assassins do?

Escape artist....

Same thing with DKs being able to take a beating... others can do it better now after nerfs they have been given.

Tannakaobi · October 2015

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Tannakaobi It'a all mainly about the magicka cost of having to spam it (for me it costs around 2.8k per use). I'm a stamina DK with 30k stam and 10k magicka so it especially hurts having to spam it multiple times in a row just to be able to hit a NB for 1 second until they re-cloak while being hold by talons. Imo if you're in a hold ability you should still be able to be attacked rather than being able to sit there; burning talons also provide a DoT.

Yes, Someone else mentioned this and I agreed with them. If you are held by talons or any other such effect/skill then cloak should not work. You should have to break free first.

but when people say things like 'It's all mainly about the magicka cost of having to spam it' this is where I think they are wrong.

Then the same people will point at Mass Hysteria and Ambush as reasons for nerfing Cloak. It's like me saying Talons should be nerfed because well, Molten Whip.

mike.eso · October 2015

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

I don't understand why people think roll dodge and cloak should be treated the same as streak. Streak not only teleports sorcs, it also stuns and damages. Neither dodge nor cloak have that much utility. They're purely defensive and have counters. There are no abilities that counter streak. I just don't think ZOS thinks this stuff through. It just doesn't make sense to treat roll dodge and cloak the same as streak.

Totally Agree here.

Gotta agree with this as well, also out of all three of the skills cloak is the only one that you may/probably have to spam 2 or 3 times in order to get a successful one off while you're in combat. So stacking the cost like roll or streak would end up hurting even more if it has to be used 3 times in half a second just to get the skill to work correctly.

Tannakaobi · October 2015

Nijjion wrote: »

Sav72 wrote: »

People are complaining about a class ability that does no harm, other then designed to get away from harm...

Is that not what assassins do?

Escape artist....

Same thing with DKs being able to take a beating... others can do it better now after nerfs they have been given.

This is the point this thread is making!

So they messed up nerfing DK's and Sorcerers, rather than fix the problem, let's just nerf the rest so it's even. As if this is some sort of numbers game about who's can be nerfed the hardest.

coolermh · October 2015

I like how they haven't even said they are going to do anything with cloak yet and people are freaking out. Just wait and see what they do. They even said they are aware of the "many counters available" to cloak so they will be very cautious about it. Once orsinium drops and everyone leaves imperial city people wont complain that much anymore cause nb's wont be able to use the real advantage that cloak gives which is ducking out of line of sight. Cyrodil is to open for that.

Tannakaobi · October 2015

coolermh wrote: »

I like how they haven't even said they are going to do anything with cloak yet and people are freaking out. Just wait and see what they do. They even said they are aware of the "many counters available" to cloak so they will be very cautious about it. Once orsinium drops and everyone leaves imperial city people wont complain that much anymore cause nb's wont be able to use the real advantage that cloak gives which is ducking out of line of sight. Cyrodil is to open for that.

I judge Zos on what they have done so far so as far as I am concerned as soon as they said it was being looked at it is as good as ruined. So I'm taking a stand now.

and 'freaking out' is a bit strong.

Rioht · October 2015

I don't see the issue.

I find it ridiculous that while fighting a nb he can cloak while 1ft in front of my face. I aoe/streak to reveal, they instantly cloak. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat....

Then I just leave. Its a horrible abused mechanic in PvP.

Resipsa131 · October 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

It's called class and skill rebalancing, you shouldn't be able to permanently stay in cloak just like sorcerers can't permanently streak away. Same diff really

It makes no sense to compare BOL with Dark Cloak as they serve different functions and you cannot interrupt or break a character out of BOL. To give Dark Cloak the BOL treatment would make successive cloaks in 4 seconds cost 50% more magicka BUT you can't break a character out of cloak, this would be a major buff to NBs.

Spoonclay · October 2015

Nightblades dont have a class shield or class insta-heals. They get hots and heal-after-kill, and cloak.
Becoming invisible is arguably better than a shield because you can avoid damage altogether by going invisible, and you remove dots and break channels; the only thing that hurts you is aoe so as long as you keep out of aoe range you're fine (ambush in, hit, shade out, gg).
It's invisibility with no drawbacks, that's the problem people have with it.
To simplify things let's think about the assassin playstyle: cloak forever, hit and run.

If you treat it like streak and dodge roll and you give the NB, say, 2 or 3 normal cloaks before increased cost/short duration, you effectively kill the permacloak and leave the nightblade with little defense. Sure you still get the +10% dmg from sneak and the stun from concealed weapon but you have limited use before magicka runs out so start drinking potions.

If you stop magicka regen while in cloak magiblades will cloak 15-20 times before their magicka runs out, which means permacloak is still kind of a thing, and drinking a potion before the attack makes up for 3 to 4 cloaks.

In general this makes the NB game harder because you have to time your cloaks in order for them to be effective in the offensive and makes the escape a forfeit on the battle rather than a reset. You'll have to pick your targets much more carefully and you wanna make sure they die when you do so, good luck with that.
In IC there is no roaming around like a stroll in the park anymore and in Cyrodiil it's a pain to keep an eye on your resources all the time. Stamblades might drop cloak altogether as their utility pool would become the cloak pool.

IMHO cloak needs balance more than a nerf, if anything. Invisibility is a great thing but if you can use it sparingly and you have no defense when visible it's no good. I'd say high cost=high chance.
So a nerfed cloak has to give you a high chance of running away safely OR a high chance of killing the enemy.
Rephrasing: I can escape/kill you but it costs a buttload of magicka.

tl;dr rambling

MishMash · October 2015

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

I don't understand why people think roll dodge and cloak should be treated the same as streak. Streak not only teleports sorcs, it also stuns and damages. Neither dodge nor cloak have that much utility. They're purely defensive and have counters. There are no abilities that counter streak. I just don't think ZOS thinks this stuff through. It just doesn't make sense to treat roll dodge and cloak the same as streak.

Totally Agree here.

I also agree. When I Dodge Roll I am not doing damage or stunning of any kind, same goes for Cloak. Cloak is expensive (3,525 magicka) for Stam users so the majority of stam users will not use it as much. Dodge Roll in battle is not cheap anymore. 27K in stam...
I remember I could DR 10 times and still use my stam skills afterwards. Now I can DR like 3 times in battle and barely have enough for the fight. I think that is what people were asking for right? Was that not enough? I think I would have to be a Hybrid again to manage both DR and Cloak as much as some are suggesting NB do.

TequilaFire · October 2015

Salmonoid wrote: »

I have no issue with how nightblades are, just increase the cast or no magic regen something alike of cloak to reduce bads being able to flee from any type of action if they can't one shot you. Cloak is extremely OP, not everyone has a detection pot on cooldown ready to go, not everyone has large enough aoe to hit you, you can even cloak a meteor which makes no sense. Not sure why you're so upset they are going to slightly increase the cast or slightly reduce your magic regen while cloaked. But hey it's too hard to reason with anyone on these forums who disagree with you, so no point putting my argument here

Yeah and templars shouldn't get magicka regen when casting heals, same with sorcs while channeling, oh and DKs should just have no health regen while doing anything.

Much more balanced.

Then have fun dying in dungeons.
Right nerf the healer. lol

But I get the sarcasm.

FuzzyDuck79 · October 2015

I'm sick of this. So fed up with people that can't use their builds in PvP properly that they call for nerfs. Because that's what this is essentially. Cloak never needed a nerf until IC when NB's could pull mobs into other players and cloak. I think spam healing templars should be nerfed first.

KaleidoscopeEyz · October 2015

Forums have destroyed gaming. I personally hold it responsible for the death of Destiny. Companies put too much weight into them. It should be a place to hang out, have fun and share info but not a place to file complaints about the game. They should treat those threads like the "good bye" threads. Shut them down immediately. Make them send an official email if they want to complain.