RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

Sorcs have 3 good self heals.

• dark conversion
• Clannfear
• Twilight

ON TOP of the Dark Magic passives and Surge.
Try those out instead of stacking a 3rd shield...

Every other class that can't stack 3-4 shields got hit hard by the LA nerf.

Some players are so terribly ignorant of game mechanics and meta, I am in shock at what I'm reading. It's not worth the effort of arguing but I will say that shieldbreaker is disgustingly bad design.

As a magicka sorcerer who has clocked in an unhealthy amount of hours at IC launch, playing a month straight as a magicka sorcerer against shieldbreakers. The set doesn't make any sense.

Magicka Sorcerers are still very powerful and the set didn't change the meta what so ever, I'm playing exactly the same way as before after testing out many different skills and getting the best results with near identical build as last patch. The result of introducing this set is more toxic gameplay and less natural counters

We're left with 2 options when we run into a shieldbreaker.

1) Pressure and kill them if they are unskilled
2) Literally turn around (complete 180) and go somewhere else if it's a skilled player

Skilled player + shieldbreaker are impossible to kill without overhauling our build to the point where it's not effective or viable against any other setup in pvp in general. Shieldbreakers do not suffer this penalty, their builds are still very competitive even with sacrificing the 5th set bonus.

Multiple players with shield breaker will kill magicka sorcerers, or anyone with a shield, instantly. This gameplay is even more toxic than the few skilled sorcerers that 1vX/pubstomp players with no grasp of pvp mechanics. But the difference is no skill is involved with using bow light attacks, no resource management, buff and crowd control timing, positioning or anything.

Overall it's a crutch for players to be competitive with no effort or game knowledge and makes skilled stamina nightblades and stamina dks that run this set unbearably overpowered. It's toxic, sorcerer shields should be tweaked and redesigned to be in-line with other class's forms mitigation and compensated elsewhere to make up for the loss of defense to make not running hardened ward actually viable as a magicka sorcerer.

Soulac wrote: »

Helba wrote: »

Some players are so terribly ignorant of game mechanics and meta, I am in shock at what I'm reading. It's not worth the effort of arguing but I will say that shieldbreaker is disgustingly bad design.

As a magicka sorcerer who has clocked in an unhealthy amount of hours at IC launch, playing a month straight as a magicka sorcerer against shieldbreakers. The set doesn't make any sense.

Magicka Sorcerers are still very powerful and the set didn't change the meta what so ever, I'm playing exactly the same way as before after testing out many different skills and getting the best results with near identical build as last patch. The result of introducing this set is more toxic gameplay and less natural counters

We're left with 2 options when we run into a shieldbreaker.

1) Pressure and kill them if they are unskilled
2) Literally turn around (complete 180) and go somewhere else if it's a skilled player

Skilled player + shieldbreaker are impossible to kill without overhauling our build to the point where it's not effective or viable against any other setup in pvp in general. Shieldbreakers do not suffer this penalty, their builds are still very competitive even with sacrificing the 5th set bonus.

Multiple players with shield breaker will kill magicka sorcerers, or anyone with a shield, instantly. This gameplay is even more toxic than the few skilled sorcerers that 1vX/pubstomp players with no grasp of pvp mechanics. But the difference is no skill is involved with using bow light attacks, no resource management, buff and crowd control timing, positioning or anything.

Overall it's a crutch for players to be competitive with no effort or game knowledge and makes skilled stamina nightblades and stamina dks that run this set unbearably overpowered. It's toxic, sorcerer shields should be tweaked and redesigned to be in-line with other class's forms mitigation and compensated elsewhere to make up for the loss of defense to make not running hardened ward actually viable as a magicka sorcerer.

To be honest I don't see your problem.

If I run into someone using mark, detection potions or any Stamina Build with steel tornado it doesn't look different.
The amount of nightblades using mark as soon as they see you is high and it negates your main defense against everyone you fight, while shields still provide the defense on your attacks.

There is not much skill involved in light attacking people out of cloak, use a skill to break block or use a charge against bolt escape either.

You know I will also die if I get focused by multiple people using counters against my playstyle. You expect to have one build working against everything available?
Shield breaker isn't the best solution, but without a bow surely not too strong. It's a real Xv1 Set if used with a Bow, but so are many skills..

Btw I also need to run something completely different to fight evenly skilled players using mark or detection potions.
All my defense abilities got hard counters, meaning they completely remove or ignore them, so I don't see any problem with a set hitting your health directly with a little amount.

Maybe I don't see the problem since I play with half broken defense abilities since beta, but imo Shield breaker is totally fine as long as not used with a bow.

Here are some tips for long ranged bow SB.

• Use pets to los basic attacks (this includes atros)
• snare/roots/cc (for los)
• burst heal
• stop stacking shields

Derra wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

The set is just as stupid as shieldstacking/spamming is. Balance is restored.

You´ve been playing a sorc yourself. How do you play when encountering this set?

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

Sorcs have 3 good self heals.

• dark conversion
• Clannfear
• Twilight

ON TOP of the Dark Magic passives and Surge.
Try those out instead of stacking a 3rd shield...

Every other class that can't stack 3-4 shields got hit hard by the LA nerf.

Just gtfo.

You clearly have no idea about what a good selfheal is. I´d trade all of those for the ability to spam sap essence on myself without a target. That should give you an impression how good they are.

Clueless.

Lol
So many sorcs and sorc re-rolls that are still sticking to the same sorc meta.
The same meta that could allow 1 sorc to face tank 10 people even with flappy light armor.
Overall you have 3 pets that you can use to kite around in and deal constant damage. I've seen it, but players refuse to change.

• Dark Conversion does 3k HP while SB spam does 2.1k. You could negate the dmg of SB with 1 pop which is why it has a cool down, but great mobility
• Clannfear heals scales off of your HP (35%). Which means if you invest some points into HP, instead maxing out magicka for ultimate shield spam, you can have better sustain for SB spam.
• Twilight does a 3sec HoT better than rally imo

I just think you and every other sorc re roll need to gtfo and rethink your builds when you cant beat a set that deals direct damage to you. Sorc's shields are not class defining like cloak is to NB to the point that SB is "toxic" lol.
Every stamina build has to put up with nerfs even without shields and the stamina meta has almost always depended on HoTs while dealing with tanks in dresses that can burst and blink away.

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

The set is just as stupid as shieldstacking/spamming is. Balance is restored.

You´ve been playing a sorc yourself. How do you play when encountering this set?

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

Sorcs have 3 good self heals.

• dark conversion
• Clannfear
• Twilight

ON TOP of the Dark Magic passives and Surge.
Try those out instead of stacking a 3rd shield...

Every other class that can't stack 3-4 shields got hit hard by the LA nerf.

Just gtfo.

You clearly have no idea about what a good selfheal is. I´d trade all of those for the ability to spam sap essence on myself without a target. That should give you an impression how good they are.

Clueless.

Lol
So many sorcs and sorc re-rolls that are still sticking to the same sorc meta.
The same meta that could allow 1 sorc to face tank 10 people even with flappy light armor.
Overall you have 3 pets that you can use to kite around in and deal constant damage. I've seen it, but players refuse to change.

• Dark Conversion does 3k HP while SB spam does 2.1k. You could negate the dmg of SB with 1 pop which is why it has a cool down, but great mobility
• Clannfear heals scales off of your HP (35%). Which means if you invest some points into HP, instead maxing out magicka for ultimate shield spam, you can have better sustain for SB spam.
• Twilight does a 3sec HoT better than rally imo

I just think you and every other sorc re roll need to gtfo and rethink your builds when you cant beat a set that deals direct damage to you. Sorc's shields are not class defining like cloak is to NB to the point that SB is "toxic" lol.
Every stamina build has to put up with nerfs even without shields and the stamina meta has almost always depended on HoTs while dealing with tanks in dresses that can burst and blink away.

Edit: Maulkin already explained it nicely. Look above for the answers you´re desperately searching.

All you post does is prove you have no idea about the sorcerer class apart from killing worldbosses in pve (which is what you should obviously stick to).

Edit: Also where did i state that i can´t deal with this set? All i did was to point out your incapability to argue on this topic.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

The set is just as stupid as shieldstacking/spamming is. Balance is restored.

You´ve been playing a sorc yourself. How do you play when encountering this set?

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

Sorcs have 3 good self heals.

• dark conversion
• Clannfear
• Twilight

ON TOP of the Dark Magic passives and Surge.
Try those out instead of stacking a 3rd shield...

Every other class that can't stack 3-4 shields got hit hard by the LA nerf.

Just gtfo.

You clearly have no idea about what a good selfheal is. I´d trade all of those for the ability to spam sap essence on myself without a target. That should give you an impression how good they are.

Clueless.

Lol
So many sorcs and sorc re-rolls that are still sticking to the same sorc meta.
The same meta that could allow 1 sorc to face tank 10 people even with flappy light armor.
Overall you have 3 pets that you can use to kite around in and deal constant damage. I've seen it, but players refuse to change.

• Dark Conversion does 3k HP while SB spam does 2.1k. You could negate the dmg of SB with 1 pop which is why it has a cool down, but great mobility
• Clannfear heals scales off of your HP (35%). Which means if you invest some points into HP, instead maxing out magicka for ultimate shield spam, you can have better sustain for SB spam.
• Twilight does a 3sec HoT better than rally imo

I just think you and every other sorc re roll need to gtfo and rethink your builds when you cant beat a set that deals direct damage to you. Sorc's shields are not class defining like cloak is to NB to the point that SB is "toxic" lol.
Every stamina build has to put up with nerfs even without shields and the stamina meta has almost always depended on HoTs while dealing with tanks in dresses that can burst and blink away.

So many clueless people that talk about stuff they have never tested. All the heals you are describing are values before Battle Spirit.

• The Dark Conversion heal is 1.5k in PvP and has a 1" cast time. And it doesn't crit. In that 1" you will get 2 Light Attacks that do 4.5k damage. Gratz, you failed
• The Clannfear heal is 17.5% of your HP in PvP. The skill has 1.3" cast time and then you have to waste another CD on desummoning it, plus it's very expensive.
• The Twillight Heal has a 30" cooldown. You can't use it all the time

Of all the stuff you posted, Blessing of Restoration is clearly superior but it's still not enough to counter shield breaker spam.

Next time, look at stuff before talking nonsense, cause you're sounding off like a real ass. You are talking to Sorcs that have been playing the class forever.

The only counter I have found is fleeing or going offensive using Crit Surge. And going offensive is an option in 1v1, but add a second opponent and you're in trouble.

That right there is the real issue. You sorcs are mad that you can't take on 10 dudes because one of them will be dealing direct damage. Before, a sorc could do take on 10 no problem by stacking shields.If it got tough, just blink away....
Every other class would have a tough time managing resources if multiple enemies came out. Now that the same thing is happening to sorcs its unbalanced and a bad design? Shields are an overall bad design and sorcs got the best of it for a long time.
It boggles my mind when Sorcs cant figure out a way to deal with direct damage when every other class without shields had to deal with it. Non-sorcs/stamina builds had the same two options: Flee or go offensive but add a second opponent and you're in trouble.
Stamina builds have to put up with direct damage while their heals are all HoT. I switched to Stamina sorc because quite frankly, magicka sorcs is just too easy.

You've got insta cast runes
Youve got a 3rd bar
Youve got 3 pets

Put yourself in a SB spammer's shoes
I have to be moving around light att spamming while taking all the damage w/o any shields
Run out of stamina- dead
Snared/Rooted/CC'ed- dead
Roll dodge around- dead
Block everything- dead

Im going to be curse all the time
Frag nukes will come every 2-3 casts the sorc does
If the sorc had pets, I'd be taking CONSTANT damage that my HoT wont be useful.
If the sorc had runes Id be constant;y cc'ed, Id run out of stam, and Id be open to a DPS Burst.
Power Overload bursts are no joke. I'd have to roll or block that which is costing me the fight.

But instead all these sorcs are gonna stick to the same thing.
Stack spell dmg, stack shields, force shock, entropy, curse, frag, mages wrath, soul assault. Let the shields do the work while im up in my enemies face throwing everything i got at him.

Helba wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

snip

I have put myself in the shieldbreaker's shoes because I used to run it on my own second sorcerer that is stamina-based.For the last few weeks I've played my stamina sorcerer over my magicka, duels, 1vX, IC sewers you name it. I know exactly what stamina builds have to deal with facing magicka sorcerers and their options against it.

I stopped using shieldbreaker because it's not fun to use, it feels cheap because it is cheap. Spamming light attacks is just dull gameplay and terrible design, it would be more fun if I could duke it out with sword and board.Instead of shieldbreaker sorcerers get a mitigation buff or heals slightly less but decent enough compared to dks and templars and hardened ward or shield mechanics in general reworked so that they can't be refreshed so quickly that it basically extends your health by how much magicka you have to cast it, which is a lot.

Pain you do think that shieldbreaker is bad design right? We're not being 'mad' or anything, I'd like sorcerers to be more balanced and to have better/closer fights on both sides, it's just not a good solution that's all. It's not fun for both sides, and it doesn't just hurt sorcerers either. I was on my magicka DK and shieldbreaker was even more annoying.

Cheap light attacks are just as cheap as

• stacking shields
• ambush spam
• surprise attack spam
• wrecking blow monkey spam
• camo hunter
• jabspam

All of which are not fun and too cookie for me. I'll just say it right now. Basic Attacks and Pets are much much better this update.
As long as players can stack multiple shields. i have see no problem with Shieldbreaker.

WRX wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Helba wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

snip

I have put myself in the shieldbreaker's shoes because I used to run it on my own second sorcerer that is stamina-based.For the last few weeks I've played my stamina sorcerer over my magicka, duels, 1vX, IC sewers you name it. I know exactly what stamina builds have to deal with facing magicka sorcerers and their options against it.

I stopped using shieldbreaker because it's not fun to use, it feels cheap because it is cheap. Spamming light attacks is just dull gameplay and terrible design, it would be more fun if I could duke it out with sword and board.Instead of shieldbreaker sorcerers get a mitigation buff or heals slightly less but decent enough compared to dks and templars and hardened ward or shield mechanics in general reworked so that they can't be refreshed so quickly that it basically extends your health by how much magicka you have to cast it, which is a lot.

Pain you do think that shieldbreaker is bad design right? We're not being 'mad' or anything, I'd like sorcerers to be more balanced and to have better/closer fights on both sides, it's just not a good solution that's all. It's not fun for both sides, and it doesn't just hurt sorcerers either. I was on my magicka DK and shieldbreaker was even more annoying.

Cheap light attacks are just as cheap as

• stacking shields
• ambush spam
• surprise attack spam
• wrecking blow monkey spam
• camo hunter
• jabspam

All of which are not fun and too cookie for me. I'll just say it right now. Basic Attacks and Pets are much much better this update.
As long as players can stack multiple shields. i have see no problem with Shieldbreaker.

I'm not going to try and argue with you because it is pointless.

But reading your garbage posts actually make me mad at your complete ignorance.

Please remove the keyboard and go pick up a controller.

WRX wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Helba wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

snip

I have put myself in the shieldbreaker's shoes because I used to run it on my own second sorcerer that is stamina-based.For the last few weeks I've played my stamina sorcerer over my magicka, duels, 1vX, IC sewers you name it. I know exactly what stamina builds have to deal with facing magicka sorcerers and their options against it.

I stopped using shieldbreaker because it's not fun to use, it feels cheap because it is cheap. Spamming light attacks is just dull gameplay and terrible design, it would be more fun if I could duke it out with sword and board.Instead of shieldbreaker sorcerers get a mitigation buff or heals slightly less but decent enough compared to dks and templars and hardened ward or shield mechanics in general reworked so that they can't be refreshed so quickly that it basically extends your health by how much magicka you have to cast it, which is a lot.

Pain you do think that shieldbreaker is bad design right? We're not being 'mad' or anything, I'd like sorcerers to be more balanced and to have better/closer fights on both sides, it's just not a good solution that's all. It's not fun for both sides, and it doesn't just hurt sorcerers either. I was on my magicka DK and shieldbreaker was even more annoying.

Cheap light attacks are just as cheap as

• stacking shields
• ambush spam
• surprise attack spam
• wrecking blow monkey spam
• camo hunter
• jabspam

All of which are not fun and too cookie for me. I'll just say it right now. Basic Attacks and Pets are much much better this update.
As long as players can stack multiple shields. i have see no problem with Shieldbreaker.

I'm not going to try and argue with you because it is pointless.

But reading your garbage posts actually make me mad at your complete ignorance.

Please remove the keyboard and go pick up a controller.

WRX wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Helba wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

snip

I have put myself in the shieldbreaker's shoes because I used to run it on my own second sorcerer that is stamina-based.For the last few weeks I've played my stamina sorcerer over my magicka, duels, 1vX, IC sewers you name it. I know exactly what stamina builds have to deal with facing magicka sorcerers and their options against it.

I stopped using shieldbreaker because it's not fun to use, it feels cheap because it is cheap. Spamming light attacks is just dull gameplay and terrible design, it would be more fun if I could duke it out with sword and board.Instead of shieldbreaker sorcerers get a mitigation buff or heals slightly less but decent enough compared to dks and templars and hardened ward or shield mechanics in general reworked so that they can't be refreshed so quickly that it basically extends your health by how much magicka you have to cast it, which is a lot.

Pain you do think that shieldbreaker is bad design right? We're not being 'mad' or anything, I'd like sorcerers to be more balanced and to have better/closer fights on both sides, it's just not a good solution that's all. It's not fun for both sides, and it doesn't just hurt sorcerers either. I was on my magicka DK and shieldbreaker was even more annoying.

Cheap light attacks are just as cheap as

• stacking shields
• ambush spam
• surprise attack spam
• wrecking blow monkey spam
• camo hunter
• jabspam

All of which are not fun and too cookie for me. I'll just say it right now. Basic Attacks and Pets are much much better this update.
As long as players can stack multiple shields. i have see no problem with Shieldbreaker.

I'm not going to try and argue with you because it is pointless.

But reading your garbage posts actually make me mad at your complete ignorance.

Please remove the keyboard and go pick up a controller.

WRX wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Helba wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

snip

I have put myself in the shieldbreaker's shoes because I used to run it on my own second sorcerer that is stamina-based.For the last few weeks I've played my stamina sorcerer over my magicka, duels, 1vX, IC sewers you name it. I know exactly what stamina builds have to deal with facing magicka sorcerers and their options against it.

I stopped using shieldbreaker because it's not fun to use, it feels cheap because it is cheap. Spamming light attacks is just dull gameplay and terrible design, it would be more fun if I could duke it out with sword and board.Instead of shieldbreaker sorcerers get a mitigation buff or heals slightly less but decent enough compared to dks and templars and hardened ward or shield mechanics in general reworked so that they can't be refreshed so quickly that it basically extends your health by how much magicka you have to cast it, which is a lot.

Pain you do think that shieldbreaker is bad design right? We're not being 'mad' or anything, I'd like sorcerers to be more balanced and to have better/closer fights on both sides, it's just not a good solution that's all. It's not fun for both sides, and it doesn't just hurt sorcerers either. I was on my magicka DK and shieldbreaker was even more annoying.

Cheap light attacks are just as cheap as

• stacking shields
• ambush spam
• surprise attack spam
• wrecking blow monkey spam
• camo hunter
• jabspam

All of which are not fun and too cookie for me. I'll just say it right now. Basic Attacks and Pets are much much better this update.
As long as players can stack multiple shields. i have see no problem with Shieldbreaker.

I'm not going to try and argue with you because it is pointless.

But reading your garbage posts actually make me mad at your complete ignorance.

Please remove the keyboard and go pick up a controller.

Lol
Didnt you make a sorc for the very same reason as everyone else? To stack as many shields as possible? To provide one of the best ultis in the game? To tank 10 people at a time while wearing a dress?

The only thing wrong with SB is the camo hunter thing. Other than that, sorcs probably need to invest into their 18k HPs instead of 40-50k magicka...

.

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Helba wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

snip

I have put myself in the shieldbreaker's shoes because I used to run it on my own second sorcerer that is stamina-based.For the last few weeks I've played my stamina sorcerer over my magicka, duels, 1vX, IC sewers you name it. I know exactly what stamina builds have to deal with facing magicka sorcerers and their options against it.

I stopped using shieldbreaker because it's not fun to use, it feels cheap because it is cheap. Spamming light attacks is just dull gameplay and terrible design, it would be more fun if I could duke it out with sword and board.Instead of shieldbreaker sorcerers get a mitigation buff or heals slightly less but decent enough compared to dks and templars and hardened ward or shield mechanics in general reworked so that they can't be refreshed so quickly that it basically extends your health by how much magicka you have to cast it, which is a lot.

Pain you do think that shieldbreaker is bad design right? We're not being 'mad' or anything, I'd like sorcerers to be more balanced and to have better/closer fights on both sides, it's just not a good solution that's all. It's not fun for both sides, and it doesn't just hurt sorcerers either. I was on my magicka DK and shieldbreaker was even more annoying.

Cheap light attacks are just as cheap as

• stacking shields
• ambush spam
• surprise attack spam
• wrecking blow monkey spam
• camo hunter
• jabspam

All of which are not fun and too cookie for me. I'll just say it right now. Basic Attacks and Pets are much much better this update.
As long as players can stack multiple shields. i have see no problem with Shieldbreaker.

I'm not going to try and argue with you because it is pointless.

But reading your garbage posts actually make me mad at your complete ignorance.

Please remove the keyboard and go pick up a controller.

WRX wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Helba wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

snip

I have put myself in the shieldbreaker's shoes because I used to run it on my own second sorcerer that is stamina-based.For the last few weeks I've played my stamina sorcerer over my magicka, duels, 1vX, IC sewers you name it. I know exactly what stamina builds have to deal with facing magicka sorcerers and their options against it.

I stopped using shieldbreaker because it's not fun to use, it feels cheap because it is cheap. Spamming light attacks is just dull gameplay and terrible design, it would be more fun if I could duke it out with sword and board.Instead of shieldbreaker sorcerers get a mitigation buff or heals slightly less but decent enough compared to dks and templars and hardened ward or shield mechanics in general reworked so that they can't be refreshed so quickly that it basically extends your health by how much magicka you have to cast it, which is a lot.

Pain you do think that shieldbreaker is bad design right? We're not being 'mad' or anything, I'd like sorcerers to be more balanced and to have better/closer fights on both sides, it's just not a good solution that's all. It's not fun for both sides, and it doesn't just hurt sorcerers either. I was on my magicka DK and shieldbreaker was even more annoying.

Cheap light attacks are just as cheap as

• stacking shields
• ambush spam
• surprise attack spam
• wrecking blow monkey spam
• camo hunter
• jabspam

All of which are not fun and too cookie for me. I'll just say it right now. Basic Attacks and Pets are much much better this update.
As long as players can stack multiple shields. i have see no problem with Shieldbreaker.

I'm not going to try and argue with you because it is pointless.

But reading your garbage posts actually make me mad at your complete ignorance.

Please remove the keyboard and go pick up a controller.

WRX wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Helba wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

snip

I have put myself in the shieldbreaker's shoes because I used to run it on my own second sorcerer that is stamina-based.For the last few weeks I've played my stamina sorcerer over my magicka, duels, 1vX, IC sewers you name it. I know exactly what stamina builds have to deal with facing magicka sorcerers and their options against it.

I stopped using shieldbreaker because it's not fun to use, it feels cheap because it is cheap. Spamming light attacks is just dull gameplay and terrible design, it would be more fun if I could duke it out with sword and board.Instead of shieldbreaker sorcerers get a mitigation buff or heals slightly less but decent enough compared to dks and templars and hardened ward or shield mechanics in general reworked so that they can't be refreshed so quickly that it basically extends your health by how much magicka you have to cast it, which is a lot.

Pain you do think that shieldbreaker is bad design right? We're not being 'mad' or anything, I'd like sorcerers to be more balanced and to have better/closer fights on both sides, it's just not a good solution that's all. It's not fun for both sides, and it doesn't just hurt sorcerers either. I was on my magicka DK and shieldbreaker was even more annoying.

Cheap light attacks are just as cheap as

• stacking shields
• ambush spam
• surprise attack spam
• wrecking blow monkey spam
• camo hunter
• jabspam

All of which are not fun and too cookie for me. I'll just say it right now. Basic Attacks and Pets are much much better this update.
As long as players can stack multiple shields. i have see no problem with Shieldbreaker.

I'm not going to try and argue with you because it is pointless.

But reading your garbage posts actually make me mad at your complete ignorance.

Please remove the keyboard and go pick up a controller.

WRX wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Helba wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

snip

I have put myself in the shieldbreaker's shoes because I used to run it on my own second sorcerer that is stamina-based.For the last few weeks I've played my stamina sorcerer over my magicka, duels, 1vX, IC sewers you name it. I know exactly what stamina builds have to deal with facing magicka sorcerers and their options against it.

I stopped using shieldbreaker because it's not fun to use, it feels cheap because it is cheap. Spamming light attacks is just dull gameplay and terrible design, it would be more fun if I could duke it out with sword and board.Instead of shieldbreaker sorcerers get a mitigation buff or heals slightly less but decent enough compared to dks and templars and hardened ward or shield mechanics in general reworked so that they can't be refreshed so quickly that it basically extends your health by how much magicka you have to cast it, which is a lot.

Pain you do think that shieldbreaker is bad design right? We're not being 'mad' or anything, I'd like sorcerers to be more balanced and to have better/closer fights on both sides, it's just not a good solution that's all. It's not fun for both sides, and it doesn't just hurt sorcerers either. I was on my magicka DK and shieldbreaker was even more annoying.

Cheap light attacks are just as cheap as

• stacking shields
• ambush spam
• surprise attack spam
• wrecking blow monkey spam
• camo hunter
• jabspam

All of which are not fun and too cookie for me. I'll just say it right now. Basic Attacks and Pets are much much better this update.
As long as players can stack multiple shields. i have see no problem with Shieldbreaker.

I'm not going to try and argue with you because it is pointless.

But reading your garbage posts actually make me mad at your complete ignorance.

Please remove the keyboard and go pick up a controller.

Lol
Didnt you make a sorc for the very same reason as everyone else? To stack as many shields as possible? To provide one of the best ultis in the game? To tank 10 people at a time while wearing a dress?

The only thing wrong with SB is the camo hunter thing. Other than that, sorcs probably need to invest into their 18k HPs instead of 40-50k magicka...

Please, the longer this keeps going on the more and more of a joke your replies become. Looks like it's time to quote myself again...

Teargrants wrote: »

Moving on, not related to your post but something that needs to be said, the Forum Warrior's favorite touted solution, "stop relying on shields", "stack more than 15k into health" is just a *** poor argument that comes from not playing Sorc or just being deliberately facetious.

- Since IC, pretty much all Sorcs I've seen sit around 20k health if not a bit more. That's about the average for other classes in Cyrodiil, perhaps a bit on the low end for DKs/Temps. So pray tell, how much "more" precisely are Sorcs supposed to stack into health? 30k?
- Like it or not, Hardened Ward is the class's primary tool for damage mitigation. Sorc by design was given a big damage shield and crappy heals. Magicka Sorc cannot simply "stop" relying on shields without a redesign of the class, or a powerful non class magicka heal (such as what stam builds have w/ dodge roll + Rally + Vigor).

Here, go ahead and look at my stats, tell me what things I move around to 'invest more into my health' and magically solve all my problems.

The only way I approach 40-50k magicka to begin with would be to use food + mage light/bound armor toggles, and that's pretty silly for anything outside of a raid blob group build. Even this 34k only comes w/ entropy + meteor + racials, so it's not like I can just shave 4k off and suddenly have 4k more health. And let's say I did somehow, so what I can take 2 more shield breaker light attacks? The whole "invest more into health and less into magicka" argument is a poor construction that obfuscates the real problem, which is healing through shield breaker. You can have all the health in the world, but that doesn't make your heal bigger.

Hush hush, you're my favorite guar, stop talking and ruining my immershuns.

Sharee wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

I'll say it right now, if you run five piece Sheild-Breaker, you're a bad, plain and simple.

So over a year you've been hiding behind defense so ridiculously overpowered that ZOS had to invent a set just so there is some way to counter it...

... but it is the other players that are 'bad, plain and simple', not you.

Right.

This shows how completely out of touch you are. Hardened Ward has not been "ridiculously over powered for a year." It got a buff and a CP system skill line, and that's when it got a little too overpowered.

But instead of balancing the game, they make a cheeseball set that requires no skill whatsoever.

It's a poor, lazy attempt at class balance that requires no skill and just dumbs down the game.

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you shield stacking players can invest the time and effort into a real defense instead of a bubble. There is always that option.

What other forms of mitigation are there for a Magicka sorc?

We have no class self-heal, our escape has been nerfed again and again, and no class got hit harder by the LA mitigation nerf than Sorcs.

The shield-breaker set is just a lazy attempt at class balance. Maybe if it added damage to the shield and not the player it would be more balanced, but to put a set that is a counter to one class is aburd. Where is my set that allows me to go through reflect, because God knows I spent over a year in this game as a ranged sorc against perma-reflect DKs. Where's the set to go through Jabs, which is one of the strongest skills in the game?

ZOS routinely takes short-cuts in regards to class balance, and it shows.

Sorcs have 3 good self heals.

• dark conversion
• Clannfear
• Twilight

ON TOP of the Dark Magic passives and Surge.
Try those out instead of stacking a 3rd shield...

Every other class that can't stack 3-4 shields got hit hard by the LA nerf.

You think those are "good self-heals?" Give me a break, dude. As someone who's played sorc since Beta, I can safely say you have no idea what you're talking about.

Guess what? DKs and Templars can stack just as many shields as Sorcs, it's just that Hardened Ward is better. We have ONE class shield, but the way you'd hear people talk about it, we have five. Every class except NBs can stack the exact same amount of shields, but unlike DKs and Templars, we have no class heal to counter a cheeseball shield breaker set that requires no resources.

Gonna stop right here and say this is the ultimate troll thread and i may have taken the bait lol
The amount of sorcs not liking the fact that 20k shields may not help them now is unreal.

You need to stop hiding inside bubbles all the time and fight like everyone else pop a shield here and there but not perma shield

Alucardo wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

It's a poor, lazy attempt at class balance that requires no skill and just dumbs down the game.

Yes, we know. Every other sorc in the game has already said this. Please, you guys sound like a broken record. Why even bother with these arguments? It's going no where so we may's well drop it and wait for people to become bored of SB, which will happen

It´s not a good design. It was the easy way to give people a counter.

But you know the counter was needed. And don´t pretend it´s that OP.

In big fights you have healers and you can´t be focused really good.

But as I see most complainers come from the other end, the small scale fights. Guess what before this set it was the other way round, you could kite people all day while several guys bashing on your shield never able to get down to your health bar. And if someone managed to get you CC´ed and put some dents in your shield your second sorc buddy came around and just put a healing ward on you.
You continued to kite away and pick off every single member of the opposing group one by one, recasting your shields whenever it got low. No chance for regular players to lay a hand on you. And I won´t even continue to describe how you utilised animation cancelling with the dot component of Dawnbreaker. I know exactly how this was done as I did all that with my buddy on our two sorcs, too. Fun for the sorc, annoying and frustrating like hell for every other player.

You lost the possibility to fight in open field without every taking harm ony our healthbar. You cry about it, I can understand it. Although before this change, you just told other players to "get good, L2P, there are counters". Now the reality has changed and you are the ones crying on the forums and refusing to accept advised counters or anything else.

Well the change of sides in discussion is a delight for anyone who was annoyed by those 2,3,4 sorc groups who were lurking on the ways from keep fight to keep fight without ever contributing something to the campaign but only ganking the *** out of players who they would advise them in the forums to get good afterwards.

I used shieldbreaker once to see how it works and I was instantly insulted badly by a relatively well known player. He kept coming at me again and again and kept casting his shields. It seems to have sunken so deeply in his muscle memory to cast the shields that he can´t stop even if he knows he returns to battle fighting a shield breaker.

Imo, you refuse to find a new way of fighting and try to get this set nerfed so you can go rampant like you did before. Maybe make some suggestions how to stop the dull shield spam tactic otherwise.

I play all 4 classes and I never was a very good sorc, all I could rely on was my big sorc shield which made me invulnerable to a large part of the playerbase. Something had to be done. What was done is questionable, but shield breaker is in no way the gamebreaker for the small scale crowd. You still can beat a shield breaker. And like everyone else in this game you should know when to pick a fight and when not, others already had to learn this. Im glad the times of everlasting sorcs are over. And iy you can´t come up with a tactic to counter that, maybe you weren´t the best sorcs in the first place just like me?

I totally agree that their introduced counter is totally uncreative. But they cater to the masses.

In pvp you see tendencies to change gameplay in a way that grants much more survivabilty to casual non-hardcore players because that´s where the money comes from. One can see this as bad or a good thing (imo thats a bad way of handeling things) but I won´t expect them to change anything on their stance regarding their balancing in pvp.