How come I never hear complaints about AP grinding?

ontheleftcoast · October 2015

Almost every day you can count on someone whining on the forums about "God, I *HATE* Cadwell's to get my level up" or "How am I supposed to grind for <X> hours to get <Y> CP?" but nobody seems to complain about AP grinding. Why is that? I've played almost exclusively PvP the last month, most of it on one toon, and he still hasn't reached Alliance Rank of First Sergeant (Rank 15). Apparently getting into the 30's takes about 500 hours of game play. And maxing out at level 50? I can't even imagine how long that would take. And for the full stable of 8 toons just getting to the 30's would be 4000 hours -- at 8 hours a day that would take a year and a half.

And this is *NOT* a call for changing how AP is rewarded, or leveled. I actually don't mind that it takes real effort and dedication to get those higher ranks. But the next time I hear someone complain about CP or leveling as "hard" I'm going to shake my head and say, "Come to Cyrodiil and learn what real leveling is like."

Asherons_Call · October 2015

Yea it seems like an extraordinary amount of work.. My guy is something like level 4 recruit and I've put several hours into running around with a group taking resources and keeps

thelordoffelines · October 2015

Well they do. People complained that vigor was too much of an ap grind just so stam users could get a viable heal. Other than that they don't complain because pvp is fun.

vamp_emily · October 2015

One of my characters I'm leveling has been in PvP from level 10 to 45. I only come out to PvE to get skyshards.

Last week i finally was able to get "Caltrops" ( assault rank 6 ), I was so proud I got it.. Yah! I'm still celebrating.

It is tough, allot of fighting, and repairing.

Xendyn · October 2015

Because it's not a grind if PvP is what you love doing and your main reason for being in the game.

It's like that saying "Find what you love to do and you'll never work a day in your life"

firstdecan · October 2015

This.

Besides, many of the complaints about the long grind to v10 / v12 / v14 / v16 (all the level caps along this ESO road) were from people who wanted to get to max level so they would not be as disadvantaged in PvP. Other than vigor and caltrops, there really isn't any 'must have' abilities from the alliance wars. I think many players feel fine without those two abilities as long as their characters are of a competitively high level.

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Well they do. People complained that vigor was too much of an ap grind just so stam users could get a viable heal. Other than that they don't complain because pvp is fun.

tklawson · October 2015

Yeah, I am pretty much the opposite of the norm, in that I really get tired of the AP grinding, but I can redo the quests over and over, no problem.

Hrithmus · October 2015

The amount of grinding after level 50 is unreal. My question for VR levels do you gain XP on lower level quests? Like do the quests scale (When completed) so you can gain XP? If not i have no reason to do anything in different areas

Huckdabuck · October 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

This.

Besides, many of the complaints about the long grind to v10 / v12 / v14 / v16 (all the level caps along this ESO road) were from people who wanted to get to max level so they would not be as disadvantaged in PvP. Other than vigor and caltrops, there really isn't any 'must have' abilities from the alliance wars. I think many players feel fine without those two abilities as long as their characters are of a competitively high level.

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Well they do. People complained that vigor was too much of an ap grind just so stam users could get a viable heal. Other than that they don't complain because pvp is fun.

Must have abilities other than Vigor and Prox Det no....Must have PASSIVES yes (just like all the other skill lines). Alliance War rank 24 is where you have to get in order to receive them all. And it does take a hot minute to get there (although it's only a grind on any character after the first one).

riverdragon72 · October 2015

220 kills and a little over 140k ap last night, it's not hard. That tornado spamnation tho......:(

WreckfulAbandon · October 2015

Less QQ more pew pew

Malmai · October 2015

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Well they do. People complained that vigor was too much of an ap grind just so stam users could get a viable heal. Other than that they don't complain because pvp is fun.

Lagged Zergs is fun

firstdecan · October 2015

Huckdabuck wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

This.

Besides, many of the complaints about the long grind to v10 / v12 / v14 / v16 (all the level caps along this ESO road) were from people who wanted to get to max level so they would not be as disadvantaged in PvP. Other than vigor and caltrops, there really isn't any 'must have' abilities from the alliance wars. I think many players feel fine without those two abilities as long as their characters are of a competitively high level.

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Well they do. People complained that vigor was too much of an ap grind just so stam users could get a viable heal. Other than that they don't complain because pvp is fun.

Must have abilities other than Vigor and Prox Det no....Must have PASSIVES yes (just like all the other skill lines). Alliance War rank 24 is where you have to get in order to receive them all. And it does take a hot minute to get there (although it's only a grind on any character after the first one).

True, true. I've recently (about the past 6 weeks) just gotten back into PvP, I haven't set my sights on all the passives. But now that you mention it.......

OMG ZOS, HOW IS A CASUAL PLAYER LIKE ME SUPPOSED TO BE COMPETITIVE WITH ALL THESE NO-LIFERS WHEN IT TAKES SO LONG TO GET THE ALLIANCE SKILL PASSVES!!!!! THERE NEEDS TO BE A CATCH UP MECHANISM FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO WORK FULL TIME, AND VOLUNTEER, AND HAVE FAMBLIES, AND COMPLAIN A LOT. NEW PLAYERS WON'T WANT TO PvP WITH SUCH A DISPARITY IN ABILITY!!!!! NERF BAT, NERF BAT, NERF BAT!!!!!!!

I honestly don't know what they'd Nerf, and I hope they don't Nerf anything. Cyrodiil isn't perfect, but any changes they make should be small and incremental. I think it's really beyond the need for drastic change.

Preyfar · October 2015

Q: How come I never hear complaints about AP grinding?
A: Because I can come in and kill you while grinding, and everyone helping you grind.

Yeah, people grind AP. People grind AP to get Emp, and it's pretty well known. But when the rest of the empire finds out you tend to get blacklisted. If you're not helping the rest of the team, and are exploiting the system for personal gain and working with "the enemy" it can really backfire on you.

Yeah, it happens, but the rest of your faction can come in and break up your grind and your day.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

I like it, it's a challenge that I'm willing to accept (getting to the top) no matter how long it takes because the time I spend on this game, I'm constantly working on my Alliance Rank, not Emperor. Alliance Rank may be just a pretentious title which doesn't define skill (because a lot of players just follow groups, spam-healing Mutagen for easy progress) but it's a reason to even PvP.

I honestly think that if they ever drastically nerfed the grind, that would be the day I'd quit playing and find another game to spend my time on.

I'm sick of games getting easier and easier yet more expensive. That's not what games should be about, at all.

redspecter23 · October 2015

We have a CP catch up mechanism coming. The casual pvp playerbase demands an AP catch up mechanism for the same reasons we need one for CP.

AlnilamE · October 2015

Hrithmus wrote: »

The amount of grinding after level 50 is unreal. My question for VR levels do you gain XP on lower level quests? Like do the quests scale (When completed) so you can gain XP? If not i have no reason to do anything in different areas

Quest from normal zones are a specific level and will give a set amount of XP, no matter what level you are. Quests that scale (Main/Mages Guild/Fighters Guild) will give XP based on the level you are when you do them.

OP: There have certainly been complaints about AP grinding.

lolo_01b16_ESO · October 2015

If you like PvP and are half decent at it, you'll be about rank 12 when you hit vr 1. So you'll have all active and most passive skills before you are v16. Additionally there is next to no reward after rank 24.

And most important of all, fighting enemy players is fun, whereas killing the same npcs over and over again will become boring.

heystreethawk · October 2015

Preyfar wrote: »

Q: How come I never hear complaints about AP grinding?
A: Because I can come in and kill you while grinding, and everyone helping you grind.

Yeah, people grind AP. People grind AP to get Emp, and it's pretty well known. But when the rest of the empire finds out you tend to get blacklisted. If you're not helping the rest of the team, and are exploiting the system for personal gain and working with "the enemy" it can really backfire on you.

Yeah, it happens, but the rest of your faction can come in and break up your grind and your day.

You are making some very strange and intense assumptions about what "grinding AP" entails.

To grind AP, you and your friends go around killing a huge amount of enemies. There is no secret handshake suicide agreement; you can't just have a handful of friends on an enemy faction come out and die at your hand repeatedly, because they are worth nothing if they just died and haven't killed people since respawning. It would require more work to exploit the system than it requires to play it straight.

Elsonso · October 2015

God, I *HATE* Cadwell's to get my level up.

On a more less serious note, there was a movement a few months back to make AP account wide so that grinding it would not be so much of a chore across alternate characters.

Vangy · October 2015

Getting AP... Real effort..... Lol nope. I have millions upon millions.

Here's how to get caltrops in 1 week.

Step 1: get ts
Step 2: get 20 people into a group
Step 3: slot spin2win/impulse/proxy det/meteor
Step 4: get papa crown so everyone is stacked well on crown
Step 5: make a bee line while mashing one of the skills named above (or any other Aoe for that matter) to every enemy keep

You can thank me later once u have achieved an alliance rank of ur needs.

Note: negates/purges/barriers will also further ur cause. Also get everyone to buy siege (this is the hardest thing to accomplish btw... Damned leeches in groups are annoying)

ontheleftcoast · October 2015

Vangy wrote: »

Getting AP... Real effort..... Lol nope. I have millions upon millions.

Here's how to get caltrops in 1 week.

Step 1: get ts
Step 2: get 25 people into a group
Step 3: slot spin2win/impulse/proxy det/meteor
Step 4: get papa crown so everyone is stacked well on crown
Step 5: make a bee line while mashing one of the skills named above (or any other Aoe for that matter) to every enemy keep

You can thank me later once u have achieved an alliance rank of ur needs.

Note: negates/purges/barriers will also further ur cause. Also get everyone to buy siege (this is the hardest thing to accomplish btw... Damned leeches in groups are annoying)

Umm.. you got Proxy Det (A rank 7 skill) before you got Caltrops? What game you playin', bro?

willymchilybily · October 2015

AP scales just fine. Each subsequent level requiring a bit more AP. And i think they give you the unlocks in the right order for the most part. its not such a grind.

love rapid maneuvers and siege shield is good to get early on. I'm still after prox det and my alt wants vigor and caltrops. But the skills are there as a suppliment to other skills and not so critical that you need them to be viable. They are just skills that are particularly good for PvP, but less critical in PvE except maybe caltrops for agro/aoe. so PvPers who want the skills get them by doing what they want to do anyway

Your CP and VR comparison is everyone wants to be max level to be crafting top end gear and making their character the best they can. Getting the monster sets and farming armour sets at the level cap so its not a waste, making the final gear sets. but you can PVP at any level and not worry.

Solariken · October 2015

I love the difficulty and dedication it takes to rise through the alliance ranks too.

However, I REALLY wish alliance rank was account-based and shared across all your toons. It makes me far less apt to PvP with alts because I feel like I have to use my main all the time. It also sucks not having access to the alliance skills on alts that I already worked hard for on my main.

Vangy · October 2015

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Getting AP... Real effort..... Lol nope. I have millions upon millions.

Here's how to get caltrops in 1 week.

Step 1: get ts
Step 2: get 25 people into a group
Step 3: slot spin2win/impulse/proxy det/meteor
Step 4: get papa crown so everyone is stacked well on crown
Step 5: make a bee line while mashing one of the skills named above (or any other Aoe for that matter) to every enemy keep

You can thank me later once u have achieved an alliance rank of ur needs.

Note: negates/purges/barriers will also further ur cause. Also get everyone to buy siege (this is the hardest thing to accomplish btw... Damned leeches in groups are annoying)

Umm.. you got Proxy Det (A rank 7 skill) before you got Caltrops? What game you playin', bro?

........ Wow u really don't have much analytical/reading skills do u? Just because you are farming caltrops does not mean everyone else in your group is doing the same thing. Lots of people farm AP just to hoard it (Like me). The slotting of skills was referring to your whole group. It won't help if your the only one spamming Aoe. Everyone needs to do it. Also I did mention any Aoe skill would do fine... I mean really. 4* poster too. Also this is the perfect analogy of why CP is bad. Just because someone plays the game longer doesn't mean thyre good and deserve that cp. It's just that they have more time. (in this case stars lol).

DannyLV702 · October 2015

I'd still pvp even if we weren't given any AP. The fact that we get it is just a bonus for me

stojekarcub18_ESO · October 2015

simple, cause "hardcore" pvpers are too busy complaining about having to actually play the game outside of their blind zergfests to realize what's actually going on.

Legedric · October 2015

Pretty simple, because PvE grinding is highly repetative and mind numbing because you kill the same mobs over and over again running in circles.

PvP grinding isn't because you fight characters played by another human being you cannot predit what will happen most of the time, you maybe get goose bumps or wet hands in PvP while engaging in a close fight and you get Ap for this if you are successul. Never had that while I grinded my VR or undaunted dailies...

Stikato · October 2015

Because, when it is good (balanced, low lag) it is somewhat unpredictable, engaging, and exciting.

Whereas pve too often is simply repeating the same mechanics over and over. It is really silly that in 2015, mobs just spawn in the same spot, and walk maybe 5 feet to the right, and five feet to the left. They don't actually do anything. Even in Oblivion, NPC's had actual "lives" that made the 100% pve nature of that game more interesting.

If you had told me while playing UO in 1998 that in 2015, mobs wouldn't be sacking and ruling towns, disrupting trade routes, and other "AI" I wouldn't have believed you. For all the things it got wrong, GW2 at least got some of this right. But it was still too scripted.

Sorry, went on a tangent. But that's why those game elements are grindy. It's always the same, and there is some element (to many of us) of feeling "forced" to do it to progress. While pvp is something that is often looked forward to.

Soulshine · October 2015

there have been complaints about this plenty, just not under general discussion segment, since most PvP players understand the concept of putting a topic under the category in the forums where it is most relevant.... : P

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

When you're too busy bustin' skulls for kicks and AP doesn't have much to be spent on and all you really get out of higher Alliance War Ranks is a few new skills you may or may not use and a shiny badge to go with it it tends to not get many complaints... Except for why AP is so useless to them that is.