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The Decline and Fall of the Magicka DK
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AlcastClass RepresentativeJoy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Yeah @Alcast thats a very vague statement can you elaborate a bit on that for us? Im not saying you didn't find something that none of us have but i am a bit sceptical.
DK SCRUB OUT
I just started testing, will have to do some more testing to get things right, I loose quite a lot due to not being able to remember where I put my skills on the bars LOL.
WIll upload videos once I get some footage together.
However, people will surely QQ that this playstyle sucks....once again xD
Using Destro/Resto
5x Krag
3x Will
1x Kena
2x Torug
Still all purple gear for now.
Only thing that bothers me (same with templars) you have no way to escape or at least port away like other classes to create some space between you and your enemies
And by escape I do not mean run away like a chicken, but for example Sorcs can "sustain" their Stamina a lot better due to Streak, DK/Temps have to sit there and cant do shizzle
And last but not least, if you wanna play DK
DD= Destro/resto, DW/resto
Tanky as f: Sword N board (not a lot of dmg outpuut then but basically invincibru)
DD+Tanky= not in 2.1 > I think this is what ppl want, but this is no more, that was way too OP anyway.
And Etaniels Video shows also a good use of Magicka DK...ofc those were PvE pugs in IC but w/e...seemed to work quite well
You just don't get it. We have already done this and, despite the perceived QQing, have actually managed to defeat some opponents without getting ourselves killed. But is that success due to the player or the class? As much I as find your play-style of stacking weapon damage and sniping people who cannot see your or the arrows you fire boring, it is clear that you know what you are doing. So, what exactly is your video going to show me? That you are a good enough player that you can still play left-handed so to speak, and still manage to win more than lose on the EU server.
On the NA server, there was a 2v2 tournament this past weekend. No scrubs, no sniping unaware opponents, all tried and tested PvP builds, just immediate and intense pressure put on you from the get go. When I see a magicka DK compete, let alone thrive, in that sort of environment, then maybe that will convince me that toe-to-toe a DK ain't all that bad. Even then we'd still have the whole lack of mobility issue - which is more than an annoyance, it is glaring vulnerability - that is *not* compensated by it ability to tank since much of this was taken away. I mean is it really saying much that a DK can go toe-to-toe with a nightblade. Just use that gear on your sorc and have real burst damage and mobility.
The mobility thingy is the biggest issue, but I do not think ZOS wants to change that soon. Same issue as Templar, you are just sitting ducks and then RIP
Nor necessarily should they. But not having mobility was hella better to deal with when I had blinding flashes and a decent shield
My templar in pvp last patch was totally fine bc I had burst with Javeling+crit charge + jabs.
But with this update and the dmg mitgation it was not possible anymore, thus impossible to burn through a good shieldspamming sorc.
Edited by Alcast on October 12, 2015 6:17PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
That is not what anyone is asking for, actually.
Currently in the meta...
Magicka DPS - Nightblade, Sorc, Templar, DK in that order
Stamina DPS - Nightblade, Templar, Sorc, DK in that order (varies as a stam DPS is pretty much all weapon skills and barely relies on class abilities anyway)
Magicka Tank - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only a sorc or a beefy templar could really do this, by not mitigation but sustain shield stacking + heals
Stamina Tank - literally the only place a DK shines, but still a Stamplar could make a solid argument for being superior, completely useless in PvP
Healer - DKs have no real class support in their skill lines to be a healer. Any other class is better for this role, of either flavor.
My whole point, minus nitpicking of where I placed the classes, universally DKs are now the lowest order of preference in ANY role, both PvE and PvP (except for stam tanking trials and vet dungeons, they are still "ok" there)
DKs always needed to be able to both tank/survive as well as do damage or bring something else to the group to be viable in PvP, by pure nature of their class skill lines. Templars of any flavor can heal and throw down mitigations/shards/repentance. Nightblades can stealth/reset. throw down veil, offheal very well with saps and funnels, and have the best CCs in the game. Sorcs are mobile cannons with arguably the best survival mechanics (movement and shields).
What does a DK in your group bring? What is their role now? Stand there, get CCed, blobbed, no self heals, take it up the ass and die?
pretty much.
That's not what anyone is asking for? You must not be listening, because I could cite several posts where people complain about the lack of mobility/escape. There are loads of people asking for it, and in this very thread. In the "We Are ESO" podcast, 3/4 of the panelists wanted some sort of DK escape.
And I think you're MASSIVELY underrating Stam DKs. They give me more trouble than any other build 1v1. They can mitigate tons of damage and still hit me very hard. Fossilize and leap are great 1v1.
In group, Stam DKs can still spin just as well as anyone, have an incredibly useful CC against groups (shouldnt be block able though), and have by far the best AOE ultimate in the game.
DK could use some love, but rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated.
You realize the title of this thread is Rise and Fall of the MAGICKA DK correct?
So dont be telling me anything about Stam DKs and their viability (which I am aware of, and did note) in the same paragraph as justifying how the DK skill lines need no adjustment whatsoever.
Currently if youre not a Stamina build, you have no place full stop. Even Stam DKs fall short of Stamblades and Stamplars in respective departments.
Also, 1v1 is NICHE. So what if you can 1v1 with a build? This is a group game, you need to be able to bring something to your GROUP. With a magicka or hybrid specced dk you wont be doing much of anything past sponging heals and flailing at opponents doing less damage than any other class. That is the problem.@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
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RadioheadSh0t✭✭✭✭✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
That is not what anyone is asking for, actually.
Currently in the meta...
Magicka DPS - Nightblade, Sorc, Templar, DK in that order
Stamina DPS - Nightblade, Templar, Sorc, DK in that order (varies as a stam DPS is pretty much all weapon skills and barely relies on class abilities anyway)
Magicka Tank - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only a sorc or a beefy templar could really do this, by not mitigation but sustain shield stacking + heals
Stamina Tank - literally the only place a DK shines, but still a Stamplar could make a solid argument for being superior, completely useless in PvP
Healer - DKs have no real class support in their skill lines to be a healer. Any other class is better for this role, of either flavor.
My whole point, minus nitpicking of where I placed the classes, universally DKs are now the lowest order of preference in ANY role, both PvE and PvP (except for stam tanking trials and vet dungeons, they are still "ok" there)
DKs always needed to be able to both tank/survive as well as do damage or bring something else to the group to be viable in PvP, by pure nature of their class skill lines. Templars of any flavor can heal and throw down mitigations/shards/repentance. Nightblades can stealth/reset. throw down veil, offheal very well with saps and funnels, and have the best CCs in the game. Sorcs are mobile cannons with arguably the best survival mechanics (movement and shields).
What does a DK in your group bring? What is their role now? Stand there, get CCed, blobbed, no self heals, take it up the ass and die?
pretty much.
That's not what anyone is asking for? You must not be listening, because I could cite several posts where people complain about the lack of mobility/escape. There are loads of people asking for it, and in this very thread. In the "We Are ESO" podcast, 3/4 of the panelists wanted some sort of DK escape.
And I think you're MASSIVELY underrating Stam DKs. They give me more trouble than any other build 1v1. They can mitigate tons of damage and still hit me very hard. Fossilize and leap are great 1v1.
In group, Stam DKs can still spin just as well as anyone, have an incredibly useful CC against groups (shouldnt be block able though), and have by far the best AOE ultimate in the game.
DK could use some love, but rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated.
You realize the title of this thread is Rise and Fall of the MAGICKA DK correct?
So dont be telling me anything about Stam DKs and their viability (which I am aware of, and did note) in the same paragraph as justifying how the DK skill lines need no adjustment whatsoever.
Currently if youre not a Stamina build, you have no place full stop. Even Stam DKs fall short of Stamblades and Stamplars in respective departments.
Also, 1v1 is NICHE. So what if you can 1v1 with a build? This is a group game, you need to be able to bring something to your GROUP. With a magicka or hybrid specced dk you wont be doing much of anything past sponging heals and flailing at opponents doing less damage than any other class. That is the problem.
Do you have reading comprehension problems? I never said DKs need no adjustments whatsoever. Keep fighting that straw man, he doesn't fight back that well.
I agree with a lot of people that magicka DKs could use a buff, but they're not nearly as relatively weak now as they were once relatively strong. Part of that is nerfs, part of that is the CP system bias towards Stam, part of it is the block change, and part of it is the LA mitigation changes. They got hurt more by universal combat changes than specific class based changes.
If you didn't want me to talk about Stam DKs you shouldn't have brought them up. I have more problems with Stam DKs on my Stamblade than any other class. They can mitigate so much, and still deal very good damage, along with a great CC and single target ultimate.
Do you disagree that DKs have the best AoE damage ultimate? Does that not help group play?
Aldonius Direnni - Vet Altmer Sorc (AD)
Tyrus Telvanni - Vet Dunmer DK (AD)
Al Donius Bundy - Vet Imperial NB (AD)
Aldonius Brutus - Vet Orc DK (DC)2 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
That is not what anyone is asking for, actually.
Currently in the meta...
Magicka DPS - Nightblade, Sorc, Templar, DK in that order
Stamina DPS - Nightblade, Templar, Sorc, DK in that order (varies as a stam DPS is pretty much all weapon skills and barely relies on class abilities anyway)
Magicka Tank - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only a sorc or a beefy templar could really do this, by not mitigation but sustain shield stacking + heals
Stamina Tank - literally the only place a DK shines, but still a Stamplar could make a solid argument for being superior, completely useless in PvP
Healer - DKs have no real class support in their skill lines to be a healer. Any other class is better for this role, of either flavor.
My whole point, minus nitpicking of where I placed the classes, universally DKs are now the lowest order of preference in ANY role, both PvE and PvP (except for stam tanking trials and vet dungeons, they are still "ok" there)
DKs always needed to be able to both tank/survive as well as do damage or bring something else to the group to be viable in PvP, by pure nature of their class skill lines. Templars of any flavor can heal and throw down mitigations/shards/repentance. Nightblades can stealth/reset. throw down veil, offheal very well with saps and funnels, and have the best CCs in the game. Sorcs are mobile cannons with arguably the best survival mechanics (movement and shields).
What does a DK in your group bring? What is their role now? Stand there, get CCed, blobbed, no self heals, take it up the ass and die?
pretty much.
That's not what anyone is asking for? You must not be listening, because I could cite several posts where people complain about the lack of mobility/escape. There are loads of people asking for it, and in this very thread. In the "We Are ESO" podcast, 3/4 of the panelists wanted some sort of DK escape.
And I think you're MASSIVELY underrating Stam DKs. They give me more trouble than any other build 1v1. They can mitigate tons of damage and still hit me very hard. Fossilize and leap are great 1v1.
In group, Stam DKs can still spin just as well as anyone, have an incredibly useful CC against groups (shouldnt be block able though), and have by far the best AOE ultimate in the game.
DK could use some love, but rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated.
You realize the title of this thread is Rise and Fall of the MAGICKA DK correct?
So dont be telling me anything about Stam DKs and their viability (which I am aware of, and did note) in the same paragraph as justifying how the DK skill lines need no adjustment whatsoever.
Currently if youre not a Stamina build, you have no place full stop. Even Stam DKs fall short of Stamblades and Stamplars in respective departments.
Also, 1v1 is NICHE. So what if you can 1v1 with a build? This is a group game, you need to be able to bring something to your GROUP. With a magicka or hybrid specced dk you wont be doing much of anything past sponging heals and flailing at opponents doing less damage than any other class. That is the problem.
Do you have reading comprehension problems? I never said DKs need no adjustments whatsoever. Keep fighting that straw man, he doesn't fight back that well.
I agree with a lot of people that magicka DKs could use a buff, but they're not nearly as relatively weak now as they were once relatively strong. Part of that is nerfs, part of that is the CP system bias towards Stam, part of it is the block change, and part of it is the LA mitigation changes. They got hurt more by universal combat changes than specific class based changes.
If you didn't want me to talk about Stam DKs you shouldn't have brought them up. I have more problems with Stam DKs on my Stamblade than any other class. They can mitigate so much, and still deal very good damage, along with a great CC and single target ultimate.
Do you disagree that DKs have the best AoE damage ultimate? Does that not help group play?
There is nothing intrinsic about a stam DK that mitigates damage. They simply choose heavy armor because other wise they are dead in seconds: no cloak, no shield and streak, no spam heal. Ergo: heavy armor, which is not unique to DK.2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
That is not what anyone is asking for, actually.
Currently in the meta...
Magicka DPS - Nightblade, Sorc, Templar, DK in that order
Stamina DPS - Nightblade, Templar, Sorc, DK in that order (varies as a stam DPS is pretty much all weapon skills and barely relies on class abilities anyway)
Magicka Tank - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only a sorc or a beefy templar could really do this, by not mitigation but sustain shield stacking + heals
Stamina Tank - literally the only place a DK shines, but still a Stamplar could make a solid argument for being superior, completely useless in PvP
Healer - DKs have no real class support in their skill lines to be a healer. Any other class is better for this role, of either flavor.
My whole point, minus nitpicking of where I placed the classes, universally DKs are now the lowest order of preference in ANY role, both PvE and PvP (except for stam tanking trials and vet dungeons, they are still "ok" there)
DKs always needed to be able to both tank/survive as well as do damage or bring something else to the group to be viable in PvP, by pure nature of their class skill lines. Templars of any flavor can heal and throw down mitigations/shards/repentance. Nightblades can stealth/reset. throw down veil, offheal very well with saps and funnels, and have the best CCs in the game. Sorcs are mobile cannons with arguably the best survival mechanics (movement and shields).
What does a DK in your group bring? What is their role now? Stand there, get CCed, blobbed, no self heals, take it up the ass and die?
pretty much.
That's not what anyone is asking for? You must not be listening, because I could cite several posts where people complain about the lack of mobility/escape. There are loads of people asking for it, and in this very thread. In the "We Are ESO" podcast, 3/4 of the panelists wanted some sort of DK escape.
And I think you're MASSIVELY underrating Stam DKs. They give me more trouble than any other build 1v1. They can mitigate tons of damage and still hit me very hard. Fossilize and leap are great 1v1.
In group, Stam DKs can still spin just as well as anyone, have an incredibly useful CC against groups (shouldnt be block able though), and have by far the best AOE ultimate in the game.
DK could use some love, but rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated.
You realize the title of this thread is Rise and Fall of the MAGICKA DK correct?
So dont be telling me anything about Stam DKs and their viability (which I am aware of, and did note) in the same paragraph as justifying how the DK skill lines need no adjustment whatsoever.
Currently if youre not a Stamina build, you have no place full stop. Even Stam DKs fall short of Stamblades and Stamplars in respective departments.
Also, 1v1 is NICHE. So what if you can 1v1 with a build? This is a group game, you need to be able to bring something to your GROUP. With a magicka or hybrid specced dk you wont be doing much of anything past sponging heals and flailing at opponents doing less damage than any other class. That is the problem.
Do you have reading comprehension problems? I never said DKs need no adjustments whatsoever. Keep fighting that straw man, he doesn't fight back that well.
I agree with a lot of people that magicka DKs could use a buff, but they're not nearly as relatively weak now as they were once relatively strong. Part of that is nerfs, part of that is the CP system bias towards Stam, part of it is the block change, and part of it is the LA mitigation changes. They got hurt more by universal combat changes than specific class based changes.
If you didn't want me to talk about Stam DKs you shouldn't have brought them up. I have more problems with Stam DKs on my Stamblade than any other class. They can mitigate so much, and still deal very good damage, along with a great CC and single target ultimate.
Do you disagree that DKs have the best AoE damage ultimate? Does that not help group play?
There is nothing intrinsic about a stam DK that mitigates damage. They simply choose heavy armor because other wise they are dead in seconds: no cloak, no shield and streak, no spam heal. Ergo: heavy armor, which is not unique to DK.
It's reputation. People think that a DK they come across in Cyrodiil is "tanky" because it is a DK, not because the player or other aspects of their build.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.2 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
That is not what anyone is asking for, actually.
Currently in the meta...
Magicka DPS - Nightblade, Sorc, Templar, DK in that order
Stamina DPS - Nightblade, Templar, Sorc, DK in that order (varies as a stam DPS is pretty much all weapon skills and barely relies on class abilities anyway)
Magicka Tank - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only a sorc or a beefy templar could really do this, by not mitigation but sustain shield stacking + heals
Stamina Tank - literally the only place a DK shines, but still a Stamplar could make a solid argument for being superior, completely useless in PvP
Healer - DKs have no real class support in their skill lines to be a healer. Any other class is better for this role, of either flavor.
My whole point, minus nitpicking of where I placed the classes, universally DKs are now the lowest order of preference in ANY role, both PvE and PvP (except for stam tanking trials and vet dungeons, they are still "ok" there)
DKs always needed to be able to both tank/survive as well as do damage or bring something else to the group to be viable in PvP, by pure nature of their class skill lines. Templars of any flavor can heal and throw down mitigations/shards/repentance. Nightblades can stealth/reset. throw down veil, offheal very well with saps and funnels, and have the best CCs in the game. Sorcs are mobile cannons with arguably the best survival mechanics (movement and shields).
What does a DK in your group bring? What is their role now? Stand there, get CCed, blobbed, no self heals, take it up the ass and die?
pretty much.
That's not what anyone is asking for? You must not be listening, because I could cite several posts where people complain about the lack of mobility/escape. There are loads of people asking for it, and in this very thread. In the "We Are ESO" podcast, 3/4 of the panelists wanted some sort of DK escape.
And I think you're MASSIVELY underrating Stam DKs. They give me more trouble than any other build 1v1. They can mitigate tons of damage and still hit me very hard. Fossilize and leap are great 1v1.
In group, Stam DKs can still spin just as well as anyone, have an incredibly useful CC against groups (shouldnt be block able though), and have by far the best AOE ultimate in the game.
DK could use some love, but rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated.
You realize the title of this thread is Rise and Fall of the MAGICKA DK correct?
So dont be telling me anything about Stam DKs and their viability (which I am aware of, and did note) in the same paragraph as justifying how the DK skill lines need no adjustment whatsoever.
Currently if youre not a Stamina build, you have no place full stop. Even Stam DKs fall short of Stamblades and Stamplars in respective departments.
Also, 1v1 is NICHE. So what if you can 1v1 with a build? This is a group game, you need to be able to bring something to your GROUP. With a magicka or hybrid specced dk you wont be doing much of anything past sponging heals and flailing at opponents doing less damage than any other class. That is the problem.
Do you have reading comprehension problems? I never said DKs need no adjustments whatsoever. Keep fighting that straw man, he doesn't fight back that well.
I agree with a lot of people that magicka DKs could use a buff, but they're not nearly as relatively weak now as they were once relatively strong. Part of that is nerfs, part of that is the CP system bias towards Stam, part of it is the block change, and part of it is the LA mitigation changes. They got hurt more by universal combat changes than specific class based changes.
If you didn't want me to talk about Stam DKs you shouldn't have brought them up. I have more problems with Stam DKs on my Stamblade than any other class. They can mitigate so much, and still deal very good damage, along with a great CC and single target ultimate.
Do you disagree that DKs have the best AoE damage ultimate? Does that not help group play?
There is nothing intrinsic about a stam DK that mitigates damage. They simply choose heavy armor because other wise they are dead in seconds: no cloak, no shield and streak, no spam heal. Ergo: heavy armor, which is not unique to DK.
It's reputation. People think that a DK they come across in Cyrodiil is "tanky" because it is a DK, not because the player or other aspects of their build.
I know... Was trying to clarify. *sob*
Rip cinder storm
Rip gdb
Rip flaps
Rip dynamic ultimate2 -
Ernest145✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
That is not what anyone is asking for, actually.
Currently in the meta...
Magicka DPS - Nightblade, Sorc, Templar, DK in that order
Stamina DPS - Nightblade, Templar, Sorc, DK in that order (varies as a stam DPS is pretty much all weapon skills and barely relies on class abilities anyway)
Magicka Tank - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only a sorc or a beefy templar could really do this, by not mitigation but sustain shield stacking + heals
Stamina Tank - literally the only place a DK shines, but still a Stamplar could make a solid argument for being superior, completely useless in PvP
Healer - DKs have no real class support in their skill lines to be a healer. Any other class is better for this role, of either flavor.
My whole point, minus nitpicking of where I placed the classes, universally DKs are now the lowest order of preference in ANY role, both PvE and PvP (except for stam tanking trials and vet dungeons, they are still "ok" there)
DKs always needed to be able to both tank/survive as well as do damage or bring something else to the group to be viable in PvP, by pure nature of their class skill lines. Templars of any flavor can heal and throw down mitigations/shards/repentance. Nightblades can stealth/reset. throw down veil, offheal very well with saps and funnels, and have the best CCs in the game. Sorcs are mobile cannons with arguably the best survival mechanics (movement and shields).
What does a DK in your group bring? What is their role now? Stand there, get CCed, blobbed, no self heals, take it up the ass and die?
pretty much.
That's not what anyone is asking for? You must not be listening, because I could cite several posts where people complain about the lack of mobility/escape. There are loads of people asking for it, and in this very thread. In the "We Are ESO" podcast, 3/4 of the panelists wanted some sort of DK escape.
And I think you're MASSIVELY underrating Stam DKs. They give me more trouble than any other build 1v1. They can mitigate tons of damage and still hit me very hard. Fossilize and leap are great 1v1.
In group, Stam DKs can still spin just as well as anyone, have an incredibly useful CC against groups (shouldnt be block able though), and have by far the best AOE ultimate in the game.
DK could use some love, but rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated.
You realize the title of this thread is Rise and Fall of the MAGICKA DK correct?
So dont be telling me anything about Stam DKs and their viability (which I am aware of, and did note) in the same paragraph as justifying how the DK skill lines need no adjustment whatsoever.
Currently if youre not a Stamina build, you have no place full stop. Even Stam DKs fall short of Stamblades and Stamplars in respective departments.
Also, 1v1 is NICHE. So what if you can 1v1 with a build? This is a group game, you need to be able to bring something to your GROUP. With a magicka or hybrid specced dk you wont be doing much of anything past sponging heals and flailing at opponents doing less damage than any other class. That is the problem.
Do you have reading comprehension problems? I never said DKs need no adjustments whatsoever. Keep fighting that straw man, he doesn't fight back that well.
I agree with a lot of people that magicka DKs could use a buff, but they're not nearly as relatively weak now as they were once relatively strong. Part of that is nerfs, part of that is the CP system bias towards Stam, part of it is the block change, and part of it is the LA mitigation changes. They got hurt more by universal combat changes than specific class based changes.
If you didn't want me to talk about Stam DKs you shouldn't have brought them up. I have more problems with Stam DKs on my Stamblade than any other class. They can mitigate so much, and still deal very good damage, along with a great CC and single target ultimate.
Do you disagree that DKs have the best AoE damage ultimate? Does that not help group play?
There is nothing intrinsic about a stam DK that mitigates damage. They simply choose heavy armor because other wise they are dead in seconds: no cloak, no shield and streak, no spam heal. Ergo: heavy armor, which is not unique to DK.
It's reputation. People think that a DK they come across in Cyrodiil is "tanky" because it is a DK, not because the player or other aspects of their build.
Actually stam dks are the most tankiest because they have access to igneous and scales it's not heavy armor. Igneous to vigor alone makes them pretty tanky, throw on a sword and shield and they are even more harder to kill. Their passives synergies well and allow stam dks to tank pretty well compared to nb, templar, and sorc. Dks get 5 percent stam back when using igneous and also if they manage to get an ultimate there is more resources.
Your post is about majicka dk just wanted to give my opinion so i'll stop there.Invictus
Big Ernie - Templar - EP Grand Overlord1 -
Ernest145✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
That is not what anyone is asking for, actually.
Currently in the meta...
Magicka DPS - Nightblade, Sorc, Templar, DK in that order
Stamina DPS - Nightblade, Templar, Sorc, DK in that order (varies as a stam DPS is pretty much all weapon skills and barely relies on class abilities anyway)
Magicka Tank - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only a sorc or a beefy templar could really do this, by not mitigation but sustain shield stacking + heals
Stamina Tank - literally the only place a DK shines, but still a Stamplar could make a solid argument for being superior, completely useless in PvP
Healer - DKs have no real class support in their skill lines to be a healer. Any other class is better for this role, of either flavor.
My whole point, minus nitpicking of where I placed the classes, universally DKs are now the lowest order of preference in ANY role, both PvE and PvP (except for stam tanking trials and vet dungeons, they are still "ok" there)
DKs always needed to be able to both tank/survive as well as do damage or bring something else to the group to be viable in PvP, by pure nature of their class skill lines. Templars of any flavor can heal and throw down mitigations/shards/repentance. Nightblades can stealth/reset. throw down veil, offheal very well with saps and funnels, and have the best CCs in the game. Sorcs are mobile cannons with arguably the best survival mechanics (movement and shields).
What does a DK in your group bring? What is their role now? Stand there, get CCed, blobbed, no self heals, take it up the ass and die?
pretty much.
That's not what anyone is asking for? You must not be listening, because I could cite several posts where people complain about the lack of mobility/escape. There are loads of people asking for it, and in this very thread. In the "We Are ESO" podcast, 3/4 of the panelists wanted some sort of DK escape.
And I think you're MASSIVELY underrating Stam DKs. They give me more trouble than any other build 1v1. They can mitigate tons of damage and still hit me very hard. Fossilize and leap are great 1v1.
In group, Stam DKs can still spin just as well as anyone, have an incredibly useful CC against groups (shouldnt be block able though), and have by far the best AOE ultimate in the game.
DK could use some love, but rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated.
You realize the title of this thread is Rise and Fall of the MAGICKA DK correct?
So dont be telling me anything about Stam DKs and their viability (which I am aware of, and did note) in the same paragraph as justifying how the DK skill lines need no adjustment whatsoever.
Currently if youre not a Stamina build, you have no place full stop. Even Stam DKs fall short of Stamblades and Stamplars in respective departments.
Also, 1v1 is NICHE. So what if you can 1v1 with a build? This is a group game, you need to be able to bring something to your GROUP. With a magicka or hybrid specced dk you wont be doing much of anything past sponging heals and flailing at opponents doing less damage than any other class. That is the problem.
Do you have reading comprehension problems? I never said DKs need no adjustments whatsoever. Keep fighting that straw man, he doesn't fight back that well.
I agree with a lot of people that magicka DKs could use a buff, but they're not nearly as relatively weak now as they were once relatively strong. Part of that is nerfs, part of that is the CP system bias towards Stam, part of it is the block change, and part of it is the LA mitigation changes. They got hurt more by universal combat changes than specific class based changes.
If you didn't want me to talk about Stam DKs you shouldn't have brought them up. I have more problems with Stam DKs on my Stamblade than any other class. They can mitigate so much, and still deal very good damage, along with a great CC and single target ultimate.
Do you disagree that DKs have the best AoE damage ultimate? Does that not help group play?
There is nothing intrinsic about a stam DK that mitigates damage. They simply choose heavy armor because other wise they are dead in seconds: no cloak, no shield and streak, no spam heal. Ergo: heavy armor, which is not unique to DK.
It's reputation. People think that a DK they come across in Cyrodiil is "tanky" because it is a DK, not because the player or other aspects of their build.
Sorry my post was meant for @IshammaelInvictus
Big Ernie - Templar - EP Grand Overlord0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
That is not what anyone is asking for, actually.
Currently in the meta...
Magicka DPS - Nightblade, Sorc, Templar, DK in that order
Stamina DPS - Nightblade, Templar, Sorc, DK in that order (varies as a stam DPS is pretty much all weapon skills and barely relies on class abilities anyway)
Magicka Tank - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only a sorc or a beefy templar could really do this, by not mitigation but sustain shield stacking + heals
Stamina Tank - literally the only place a DK shines, but still a Stamplar could make a solid argument for being superior, completely useless in PvP
Healer - DKs have no real class support in their skill lines to be a healer. Any other class is better for this role, of either flavor.
My whole point, minus nitpicking of where I placed the classes, universally DKs are now the lowest order of preference in ANY role, both PvE and PvP (except for stam tanking trials and vet dungeons, they are still "ok" there)
DKs always needed to be able to both tank/survive as well as do damage or bring something else to the group to be viable in PvP, by pure nature of their class skill lines. Templars of any flavor can heal and throw down mitigations/shards/repentance. Nightblades can stealth/reset. throw down veil, offheal very well with saps and funnels, and have the best CCs in the game. Sorcs are mobile cannons with arguably the best survival mechanics (movement and shields).
What does a DK in your group bring? What is their role now? Stand there, get CCed, blobbed, no self heals, take it up the ass and die?
pretty much.
That's not what anyone is asking for? You must not be listening, because I could cite several posts where people complain about the lack of mobility/escape. There are loads of people asking for it, and in this very thread. In the "We Are ESO" podcast, 3/4 of the panelists wanted some sort of DK escape.
And I think you're MASSIVELY underrating Stam DKs. They give me more trouble than any other build 1v1. They can mitigate tons of damage and still hit me very hard. Fossilize and leap are great 1v1.
In group, Stam DKs can still spin just as well as anyone, have an incredibly useful CC against groups (shouldnt be block able though), and have by far the best AOE ultimate in the game.
DK could use some love, but rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated.
You realize the title of this thread is Rise and Fall of the MAGICKA DK correct?
So dont be telling me anything about Stam DKs and their viability (which I am aware of, and did note) in the same paragraph as justifying how the DK skill lines need no adjustment whatsoever.
Currently if youre not a Stamina build, you have no place full stop. Even Stam DKs fall short of Stamblades and Stamplars in respective departments.
Also, 1v1 is NICHE. So what if you can 1v1 with a build? This is a group game, you need to be able to bring something to your GROUP. With a magicka or hybrid specced dk you wont be doing much of anything past sponging heals and flailing at opponents doing less damage than any other class. That is the problem.
Do you have reading comprehension problems? I never said DKs need no adjustments whatsoever. Keep fighting that straw man, he doesn't fight back that well.
I agree with a lot of people that magicka DKs could use a buff, but they're not nearly as relatively weak now as they were once relatively strong. Part of that is nerfs, part of that is the CP system bias towards Stam, part of it is the block change, and part of it is the LA mitigation changes. They got hurt more by universal combat changes than specific class based changes.
If you didn't want me to talk about Stam DKs you shouldn't have brought them up. I have more problems with Stam DKs on my Stamblade than any other class. They can mitigate so much, and still deal very good damage, along with a great CC and single target ultimate.
Do you disagree that DKs have the best AoE damage ultimate? Does that not help group play?
Actually that is a great way to describe it. A Magicka DK, IN PVP, is exactly as weak now as it once was strong. If you disagree you either have never played one or don't understand that class at all.
All class skills except for whip are DOTs which are constantly and instantly removed in this Meta. Negates that magicka DOT based class.0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
That is not what anyone is asking for, actually.
Currently in the meta...
Magicka DPS - Nightblade, Sorc, Templar, DK in that order
Stamina DPS - Nightblade, Templar, Sorc, DK in that order (varies as a stam DPS is pretty much all weapon skills and barely relies on class abilities anyway)
Magicka Tank - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only a sorc or a beefy templar could really do this, by not mitigation but sustain shield stacking + heals
Stamina Tank - literally the only place a DK shines, but still a Stamplar could make a solid argument for being superior, completely useless in PvP
Healer - DKs have no real class support in their skill lines to be a healer. Any other class is better for this role, of either flavor.
My whole point, minus nitpicking of where I placed the classes, universally DKs are now the lowest order of preference in ANY role, both PvE and PvP (except for stam tanking trials and vet dungeons, they are still "ok" there)
DKs always needed to be able to both tank/survive as well as do damage or bring something else to the group to be viable in PvP, by pure nature of their class skill lines. Templars of any flavor can heal and throw down mitigations/shards/repentance. Nightblades can stealth/reset. throw down veil, offheal very well with saps and funnels, and have the best CCs in the game. Sorcs are mobile cannons with arguably the best survival mechanics (movement and shields).
What does a DK in your group bring? What is their role now? Stand there, get CCed, blobbed, no self heals, take it up the ass and die?
pretty much.
That's not what anyone is asking for? You must not be listening, because I could cite several posts where people complain about the lack of mobility/escape. There are loads of people asking for it, and in this very thread. In the "We Are ESO" podcast, 3/4 of the panelists wanted some sort of DK escape.
And I think you're MASSIVELY underrating Stam DKs. They give me more trouble than any other build 1v1. They can mitigate tons of damage and still hit me very hard. Fossilize and leap are great 1v1.
In group, Stam DKs can still spin just as well as anyone, have an incredibly useful CC against groups (shouldnt be block able though), and have by far the best AOE ultimate in the game.
DK could use some love, but rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated.
You realize the title of this thread is Rise and Fall of the MAGICKA DK correct?
So dont be telling me anything about Stam DKs and their viability (which I am aware of, and did note) in the same paragraph as justifying how the DK skill lines need no adjustment whatsoever.
Currently if youre not a Stamina build, you have no place full stop. Even Stam DKs fall short of Stamblades and Stamplars in respective departments.
Also, 1v1 is NICHE. So what if you can 1v1 with a build? This is a group game, you need to be able to bring something to your GROUP. With a magicka or hybrid specced dk you wont be doing much of anything past sponging heals and flailing at opponents doing less damage than any other class. That is the problem.
Do you have reading comprehension problems? I never said DKs need no adjustments whatsoever. Keep fighting that straw man, he doesn't fight back that well.
I agree with a lot of people that magicka DKs could use a buff, but they're not nearly as relatively weak now as they were once relatively strong. Part of that is nerfs, part of that is the CP system bias towards Stam, part of it is the block change, and part of it is the LA mitigation changes. They got hurt more by universal combat changes than specific class based changes.
If you didn't want me to talk about Stam DKs you shouldn't have brought them up. I have more problems with Stam DKs on my Stamblade than any other class. They can mitigate so much, and still deal very good damage, along with a great CC and single target ultimate.
Do you disagree that DKs have the best AoE damage ultimate? Does that not help group play?
As for the best AOE Ultimate yes of course it's great. If players stand still. Also the cost is way too high because of all the whiners that screamed for nerf. Now that dynamic ultimate is gone the cost should be lowered back. Along with Nova for Templars.0 -
wrathofrraath✭✭✭I never pvped much before this patch, so when I went into IC my gear is the same as my PVE min max gear except I use purple food instead of blue. I'm with Alcast on this, if you want to do damage as magicka the destro resto is the way to go. I use the same weapons except I use a different set. Our primary source of damage in pve AND pvp is the weave, you can't just spam whips it doesnt hit like a truck, unbuffed tooltip will never even go above 7k. I can say when i'm jumped into the sewers I can defend myself against wrecking blow monkeys with no problems but 1 v x is hard with this build, and i usually get rekt if a group jumps me. Deep Breath is your sap, ele drain is your mark target, obsidian shard is your frag. Burning embers isnt really to kill someone but more to heal yourself when they dont expect it. Molten arms is brutal if you catch an emeny after a dodge. And engulfing flames increases damage rather than inflicts it. It a different playstyle yes and our shields arent as strong but I believe it can be deadly when used the right wayVokul Lovaas - V16 Magicka Dragonknight
Vokul Vol - V16 Magicka Nightblade
Order of Mundus - NA DC
DK heals OP0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
Hmm, let's examine a few things here that you said.
1. The classes you listed, sorc and nightblade can both tank damage, sorcs via just shields have been able to face tank far better then dks since 1.6... Nightblade a have access to the sap tank build and are incredibly hard to kill when running it. This is to go a long with their actual mobility as well.
2. Let's examine your nb point first, you can get harness magicka and healing ward as a magical nightblade, which also covers heals, you can also go 1hd shield if you want a viable reflect. This is of course completely ignoring dark cloaks ability to flat out dodge single target attacks... As a stamina nightblade you have access to vigor which completely outclasses gdb from dks in every way, as magicka you have sap and funnel health which again, will vastly out heal gdb right now.
3. Sorcs, you have then 1hd shield if you want reflect, or bolt escape for just absorbing spells, magicka you have healing ward which works great with your own class shield, and lack of melee skills is pointless as you'll be using the same attack dks use in melee, wrecking blow.. If you are stamina based you have vigor of course..
In otherwords, whatever weakness you think nightblades and sorcs have were removed long ago from this game. I play a nightblade... I know you are completely off your rocker when you talk about dks having an advantage over them.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
Hmm, let's examine a few things here that you said.
1. The classes you listed, sorc and nightblade can both tank damage, sorcs via just shields have been able to face tank far better then dks since 1.6... Nightblade a have access to the sap tank build and are incredibly hard to kill when running it. This is to go a long with their actual mobility as well.
2. Let's examine your nb point first, you can get harness magicka and healing ward as a magical nightblade, which also covers heals, you can also go 1hd shield if you want a viable reflect. This is of course completely ignoring dark cloaks ability to flat out dodge single target attacks... As a stamina nightblade you have access to vigor which completely outclasses gdb from dks in every way, as magicka you have sap and funnel health which again, will vastly out heal gdb right now.
3. Sorcs, you have then 1hd shield if you want reflect, or bolt escape for just absorbing spells, magicka you have healing ward which works great with your own class shield, and lack of melee skills is pointless as you'll be using the same attack dks use in melee, wrecking blow.. If you are stamina based you have vigor of course..
In otherwords, whatever weakness you think nightblades and sorcs have were removed long ago from this game. I play a nightblade... I know you are completely off your rocker when you talk about dks having an advantage over them.
Saptank still works? Haven't seen one which doesn't die pretty quickly in 1vX in a long long time.Edited by Master_Kas on October 13, 2015 2:26AMEU | PC1 -
vortexman11✭✭✭✭✭
✭Master_Kas wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
Hmm, let's examine a few things here that you said.
1. The classes you listed, sorc and nightblade can both tank damage, sorcs via just shields have been able to face tank far better then dks since 1.6... Nightblade a have access to the sap tank build and are incredibly hard to kill when running it. This is to go a long with their actual mobility as well.
2. Let's examine your nb point first, you can get harness magicka and healing ward as a magical nightblade, which also covers heals, you can also go 1hd shield if you want a viable reflect. This is of course completely ignoring dark cloaks ability to flat out dodge single target attacks... As a stamina nightblade you have access to vigor which completely outclasses gdb from dks in every way, as magicka you have sap and funnel health which again, will vastly out heal gdb right now.
3. Sorcs, you have then 1hd shield if you want reflect, or bolt escape for just absorbing spells, magicka you have healing ward which works great with your own class shield, and lack of melee skills is pointless as you'll be using the same attack dks use in melee, wrecking blow.. If you are stamina based you have vigor of course..
In otherwords, whatever weakness you think nightblades and sorcs have were removed long ago from this game. I play a nightblade... I know you are completely off your rocker when you talk about dks having an advantage over them.
Saptank still works? Haven't seen one which doesn't die pretty quickly in 1vX in a long long time.
Sap tank was pretty much destroyed because they changed it from % stat to a flat number, I fear the day they do that to helping hand, and battle roar.Guild of Shadows ~Elite~Învictus ~Council~
EP | Vortexman | Dunmer DragonKnight | LvL 50 | Rank 50 | Former Emperor of Haderus & Chillrend |
EP | Phobos | Altmer Nightblade | LvL 50 | Rank 26 |
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EP | Vortexman | Redguard DragonKnight | LvL 50 | Rank 28 |
EP | Fungal Growth | Argonian Warden | LvL 50 | Rank 26 |
EP | Eternal Guardian | Bosmer Warden | LvL 50 | Rank 13 |
and a few other random toons
Teaching by example > https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5479085#Comment_54790853 -
Love_Chunks✭✭✭I dont pvp on my dk but is there a reason why people dont bring up chains when talking about magicka gap closers?Me: It's[WB spamming DK] a really cheesy build
Guildy: I like cheese with my wine, and WB creates some really good wine.0 -
r.jan_emailb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Love_Chunks wrote: »I dont pvp on my dk but is there a reason why people dont bring up chains when talking about magicka gap closers?
Two main issues: it is incredibly inconsistent to use, sometimes the enemy stands on a small stone and you can't use it... with charge skills you can actually charge upstairs etc. Second, if you pull the enemy, he instantly gets free cc immunity.Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
playing for eXile
I'm done, CU somewhere else.0 -
Yonkit✭✭✭✭✭Master_Kas wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
Hmm, let's examine a few things here that you said.
1. The classes you listed, sorc and nightblade can both tank damage, sorcs via just shields have been able to face tank far better then dks since 1.6... Nightblade a have access to the sap tank build and are incredibly hard to kill when running it. This is to go a long with their actual mobility as well.
2. Let's examine your nb point first, you can get harness magicka and healing ward as a magical nightblade, which also covers heals, you can also go 1hd shield if you want a viable reflect. This is of course completely ignoring dark cloaks ability to flat out dodge single target attacks... As a stamina nightblade you have access to vigor which completely outclasses gdb from dks in every way, as magicka you have sap and funnel health which again, will vastly out heal gdb right now.
3. Sorcs, you have then 1hd shield if you want reflect, or bolt escape for just absorbing spells, magicka you have healing ward which works great with your own class shield, and lack of melee skills is pointless as you'll be using the same attack dks use in melee, wrecking blow.. If you are stamina based you have vigor of course..
In otherwords, whatever weakness you think nightblades and sorcs have were removed long ago from this game. I play a nightblade... I know you are completely off your rocker when you talk about dks having an advantage over them.
Saptank still works? Haven't seen one which doesn't die pretty quickly in 1vX in a long long time.vortexman11 wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
Hmm, let's examine a few things here that you said.
1. The classes you listed, sorc and nightblade can both tank damage, sorcs via just shields have been able to face tank far better then dks since 1.6... Nightblade a have access to the sap tank build and are incredibly hard to kill when running it. This is to go a long with their actual mobility as well.
2. Let's examine your nb point first, you can get harness magicka and healing ward as a magical nightblade, which also covers heals, you can also go 1hd shield if you want a viable reflect. This is of course completely ignoring dark cloaks ability to flat out dodge single target attacks... As a stamina nightblade you have access to vigor which completely outclasses gdb from dks in every way, as magicka you have sap and funnel health which again, will vastly out heal gdb right now.
3. Sorcs, you have then 1hd shield if you want reflect, or bolt escape for just absorbing spells, magicka you have healing ward which works great with your own class shield, and lack of melee skills is pointless as you'll be using the same attack dks use in melee, wrecking blow.. If you are stamina based you have vigor of course..
In otherwords, whatever weakness you think nightblades and sorcs have were removed long ago from this game. I play a nightblade... I know you are completely off your rocker when you talk about dks having an advantage over them.
Saptank still works? Haven't seen one which doesn't die pretty quickly in 1vX in a long long time.
Sap tank was pretty much destroyed because they changed it from % stat to a flat number, I fear the day they do that to helping hand, and battle roar.
Kaiz still does it, and he does pretty well, caltrops still procs siphoning attacks and there's no cooldown so with enough block reduction you can still face tank a zerg for a while, with a templar pocket healer you can do it forever. He held the entire EP blob back long enough for the rest of us to get to chalman and defend, sap-tanked around 27 people
Idk if sap is enough to heal you and out-heal the damage people do anymore though. I didn't really ask him how he did it, he just does.
Has an Alter Ego in the form of a very large quadrupedal black & white Bear.0 -
Nijjion✭✭✭✭That's a point I've always got confused with Zenimax... With the dynamic ult change to static why didn't they reverse the ult cost for standard.
It seems like every change or balance they do is very amateurish really like that have no clue sometimes... I was a bit more understanding when they were new but would of hoped they got it by now being more experienced.
NijjijjioN - DK - AR27NijjioN - NB -Daggerfall CovenantThe Nice Guys GuildEverQuest -> Dark Age of Camelot -> Ragnarok Online -> Cabal Online -> Guild Wars 1 -> Warhammer Online -> Vindictus -> SWTOR -> Tera -> Guild Wars 2 -> Elder Scrolls Online ->
Eagerly awaiting Camelot Unchained.2 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭wrathofrraath wrote: »I never pvped much before this patch, so when I went into IC my gear is the same as my PVE min max gear except I use purple food instead of blue. I'm with Alcast on this, if you want to do damage as magicka the destro resto is the way to go. I use the same weapons except I use a different set. Our primary source of damage in pve AND pvp is the weave, you can't just spam whips it doesnt hit like a truck, unbuffed tooltip will never even go above 7k. I can say when i'm jumped into the sewers I can defend myself against wrecking blow monkeys with no problems but 1 v x is hard with this build, and i usually get rekt if a group jumps me. Deep Breath is your sap, ele drain is your mark target, obsidian shard is your frag. Burning embers isnt really to kill someone but more to heal yourself when they dont expect it. Molten arms is brutal if you catch an emeny after a dodge. And engulfing flames increases damage rather than inflicts it. It a different playstyle yes and our shields arent as strong but I believe it can be deadly when used the right way
This WB spamming monkey couldn't disagree more with you... maybe you can kill other PvE fodder but you take that build against any decent PvPer of any class and you will get your face smashed in before you can blink
DK SCRUB OUT0 -
AlcastClass RepresentativeInformal poll:
How many magicka DKs do you see in cyrodiil on a daily basis?
quite a lot, but tell me how many stamina Templars you see? https://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
But the main advantage for stamina DK against Stamina Templ is the burst damage from the leap. What else is so much more significant?
Edited by Bashev on October 15, 2015 5:14PMBecause I can!0 -
AlcastClass Representative
There are a lot of things different with Stam dk to stam templar...
But the main advantage for stamina DK against Stamina Templ is the burst damage from the leap. What else is so much more significant?
Fossilize with Stun and when you break free you are rooted
_____________________________________________________________
AND the most important "Resource Management" with Helping Hands Passive + Battle Roar + Molten Armaments which I consider the most OP of all 4 classes for stamina based.
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That is also why I can run a full weap/stam build with my DK due to those 3 small things whereas with other classes that is NOWHERE close possible.
Edited by Alcast on October 15, 2015 9:39PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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Yonkit✭✭✭✭✭
There are a lot of things different with Stam dk to stam templar...
But the main advantage for stamina DK against Stamina Templ is the burst damage from the leap. What else is so much more significant?
Fossilize with Stun and when you break free you are rooted
_____________________________________________________________
AND the most important "Resource Management" with Helping Hands Passive + Battle Roar + Molten Armaments which I consider the most OP of all 4 classes for stamina based.
_____________________________________________________________
That is also why I can run a full weap/stam build with my DK due to those 3 small things whereas with other classes that is NOWHERE close possible.
I'm waiting for you to post a duel against a Magicka DK. The outcome would be even more hilarious than any of your current videos to date.Has an Alter Ego in the form of a very large quadrupedal black & white Bear.1 -
RadioheadSh0t✭✭✭✭✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
That is not what anyone is asking for, actually.
Currently in the meta...
Magicka DPS - Nightblade, Sorc, Templar, DK in that order
Stamina DPS - Nightblade, Templar, Sorc, DK in that order (varies as a stam DPS is pretty much all weapon skills and barely relies on class abilities anyway)
Magicka Tank - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only a sorc or a beefy templar could really do this, by not mitigation but sustain shield stacking + heals
Stamina Tank - literally the only place a DK shines, but still a Stamplar could make a solid argument for being superior, completely useless in PvP
Healer - DKs have no real class support in their skill lines to be a healer. Any other class is better for this role, of either flavor.
My whole point, minus nitpicking of where I placed the classes, universally DKs are now the lowest order of preference in ANY role, both PvE and PvP (except for stam tanking trials and vet dungeons, they are still "ok" there)
DKs always needed to be able to both tank/survive as well as do damage or bring something else to the group to be viable in PvP, by pure nature of their class skill lines. Templars of any flavor can heal and throw down mitigations/shards/repentance. Nightblades can stealth/reset. throw down veil, offheal very well with saps and funnels, and have the best CCs in the game. Sorcs are mobile cannons with arguably the best survival mechanics (movement and shields).
What does a DK in your group bring? What is their role now? Stand there, get CCed, blobbed, no self heals, take it up the ass and die?
pretty much.
That's not what anyone is asking for? You must not be listening, because I could cite several posts where people complain about the lack of mobility/escape. There are loads of people asking for it, and in this very thread. In the "We Are ESO" podcast, 3/4 of the panelists wanted some sort of DK escape.
And I think you're MASSIVELY underrating Stam DKs. They give me more trouble than any other build 1v1. They can mitigate tons of damage and still hit me very hard. Fossilize and leap are great 1v1.
In group, Stam DKs can still spin just as well as anyone, have an incredibly useful CC against groups (shouldnt be block able though), and have by far the best AOE ultimate in the game.
DK could use some love, but rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated.
You realize the title of this thread is Rise and Fall of the MAGICKA DK correct?
So dont be telling me anything about Stam DKs and their viability (which I am aware of, and did note) in the same paragraph as justifying how the DK skill lines need no adjustment whatsoever.
Currently if youre not a Stamina build, you have no place full stop. Even Stam DKs fall short of Stamblades and Stamplars in respective departments.
Also, 1v1 is NICHE. So what if you can 1v1 with a build? This is a group game, you need to be able to bring something to your GROUP. With a magicka or hybrid specced dk you wont be doing much of anything past sponging heals and flailing at opponents doing less damage than any other class. That is the problem.
Do you have reading comprehension problems? I never said DKs need no adjustments whatsoever. Keep fighting that straw man, he doesn't fight back that well.
I agree with a lot of people that magicka DKs could use a buff, but they're not nearly as relatively weak now as they were once relatively strong. Part of that is nerfs, part of that is the CP system bias towards Stam, part of it is the block change, and part of it is the LA mitigation changes. They got hurt more by universal combat changes than specific class based changes.
If you didn't want me to talk about Stam DKs you shouldn't have brought them up. I have more problems with Stam DKs on my Stamblade than any other class. They can mitigate so much, and still deal very good damage, along with a great CC and single target ultimate.
Do you disagree that DKs have the best AoE damage ultimate? Does that not help group play?
There is nothing intrinsic about a stam DK that mitigates damage. They simply choose heavy armor because other wise they are dead in seconds: no cloak, no shield and streak, no spam heal. Ergo: heavy armor, which is not unique to DK.Joy_Division wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
That is not what anyone is asking for, actually.
Currently in the meta...
Magicka DPS - Nightblade, Sorc, Templar, DK in that order
Stamina DPS - Nightblade, Templar, Sorc, DK in that order (varies as a stam DPS is pretty much all weapon skills and barely relies on class abilities anyway)
Magicka Tank - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only a sorc or a beefy templar could really do this, by not mitigation but sustain shield stacking + heals
Stamina Tank - literally the only place a DK shines, but still a Stamplar could make a solid argument for being superior, completely useless in PvP
Healer - DKs have no real class support in their skill lines to be a healer. Any other class is better for this role, of either flavor.
My whole point, minus nitpicking of where I placed the classes, universally DKs are now the lowest order of preference in ANY role, both PvE and PvP (except for stam tanking trials and vet dungeons, they are still "ok" there)
DKs always needed to be able to both tank/survive as well as do damage or bring something else to the group to be viable in PvP, by pure nature of their class skill lines. Templars of any flavor can heal and throw down mitigations/shards/repentance. Nightblades can stealth/reset. throw down veil, offheal very well with saps and funnels, and have the best CCs in the game. Sorcs are mobile cannons with arguably the best survival mechanics (movement and shields).
What does a DK in your group bring? What is their role now? Stand there, get CCed, blobbed, no self heals, take it up the ass and die?
pretty much.
That's not what anyone is asking for? You must not be listening, because I could cite several posts where people complain about the lack of mobility/escape. There are loads of people asking for it, and in this very thread. In the "We Are ESO" podcast, 3/4 of the panelists wanted some sort of DK escape.
And I think you're MASSIVELY underrating Stam DKs. They give me more trouble than any other build 1v1. They can mitigate tons of damage and still hit me very hard. Fossilize and leap are great 1v1.
In group, Stam DKs can still spin just as well as anyone, have an incredibly useful CC against groups (shouldnt be block able though), and have by far the best AOE ultimate in the game.
DK could use some love, but rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated.
You realize the title of this thread is Rise and Fall of the MAGICKA DK correct?
So dont be telling me anything about Stam DKs and their viability (which I am aware of, and did note) in the same paragraph as justifying how the DK skill lines need no adjustment whatsoever.
Currently if youre not a Stamina build, you have no place full stop. Even Stam DKs fall short of Stamblades and Stamplars in respective departments.
Also, 1v1 is NICHE. So what if you can 1v1 with a build? This is a group game, you need to be able to bring something to your GROUP. With a magicka or hybrid specced dk you wont be doing much of anything past sponging heals and flailing at opponents doing less damage than any other class. That is the problem.
Do you have reading comprehension problems? I never said DKs need no adjustments whatsoever. Keep fighting that straw man, he doesn't fight back that well.
I agree with a lot of people that magicka DKs could use a buff, but they're not nearly as relatively weak now as they were once relatively strong. Part of that is nerfs, part of that is the CP system bias towards Stam, part of it is the block change, and part of it is the LA mitigation changes. They got hurt more by universal combat changes than specific class based changes.
If you didn't want me to talk about Stam DKs you shouldn't have brought them up. I have more problems with Stam DKs on my Stamblade than any other class. They can mitigate so much, and still deal very good damage, along with a great CC and single target ultimate.
Do you disagree that DKs have the best AoE damage ultimate? Does that not help group play?
There is nothing intrinsic about a stam DK that mitigates damage. They simply choose heavy armor because other wise they are dead in seconds: no cloak, no shield and streak, no spam heal. Ergo: heavy armor, which is not unique to DK.
It's reputation. People think that a DK they come across in Cyrodiil is "tanky" because it is a DK, not because the player or other aspects of their build.
This is just untrue. "There is nothing intrinsic about a stam DK that mitigates damage"? Do two passives count as intrinsic? Do you not know that there is a DK passive that provides block mitigation? Or one for spell resist?
The fact that you're citing heavy armor shows that you don't understand that people are using MEDIUM armor for Stam DK's, still getting 75% mitigation on top of DK passive and CP mitigation, allowing for a good mix of mitigation and damage. Those are the DK's I'm talking about, the ones who can mitigate a bunch of my damage, and then unleash two wrecking blows and a leap and burst me down before I can even break CC. You don't need to be in heavy armor to have good block mitigation, because the DK passive and the CP system allow you to be effective without it.RadioheadSh0t wrote: »I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.
They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).
Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.
NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.
That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.
They do need to revert the most form change, though.
Hmm, let's examine a few things here that you said.
1. The classes you listed, sorc and nightblade can both tank damage, sorcs via just shields have been able to face tank far better then dks since 1.6... Nightblade a have access to the sap tank build and are incredibly hard to kill when running it. This is to go a long with their actual mobility as well.
2. Let's examine your nb point first, you can get harness magicka and healing ward as a magical nightblade, which also covers heals, you can also go 1hd shield if you want a viable reflect. This is of course completely ignoring dark cloaks ability to flat out dodge single target attacks... As a stamina nightblade you have access to vigor which completely outclasses gdb from dks in every way, as magicka you have sap and funnel health which again, will vastly out heal gdb right now.
3. Sorcs, you have then 1hd shield if you want reflect, or bolt escape for just absorbing spells, magicka you have healing ward which works great with your own class shield, and lack of melee skills is pointless as you'll be using the same attack dks use in melee, wrecking blow.. If you are stamina based you have vigor of course..
In otherwords, whatever weakness you think nightblades and sorcs have were removed long ago from this game. I play a nightblade... I know you are completely off your rocker when you talk about dks having an advantage over them.
1. NB's can't tank damage, sap tanks are no longer viable like they once were. Sorcs shields? Hello shield-breaker, the worst effing thing ZOS has ever done. One cheeseball item set basically ruined an entire class.
2. "You can get harness magicka and healing ward as a magical nightblade" and you can use those skills with a magicka DK as well, whats your point? 1hS reflect is not "viable," I think its one of the most overrated skills in the game. "Stamina nightblade has access to vigor" and so does DK, so once again, whats your point? All you did was point out non-class abilities in comparing to classes, which is to say you made no point at all. (And for the record, I agree that GDB could use a buff).
3. 1hS reflect is garbage, like I said before. The only reflect worth a damn in the game is a DK class skill, even if people incorrectly, IMO, QQ about its nerf. If you're not running Destro/Resto as a Sorc, you're doing it all wrong IMHO. Did you just mention Ball of Lightning? You know that skill got nerfed into the ground right? Bolt has been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed, shields have been nerfed and the implemented a cheeseball item set to counter them, LA mitigation nerf hit sorcs the hardest as a class. "magicka you have healing ward" once again not a class skill. Lack of melee skills is not pointless for Sorcs, its an obvious deficiency of the class, just like lack of range and mobility is a deficiency in the DK class. THAT is balance. "If you are stamina based you have vigor of course" Jesus, stop using non-class based skills to compare classes, its terrible to read, that's the fourth time you've done it.
"In otherwords, whatever weakness you think nightblades and sorcs have were removed long ago from this game."
Then where is my NB heal or shield? Where is my Sorc melee attack or heal? These classes still have weaknesses, which is fine, but so should DK's (lack of range and mobility).
If you haven't run into the ultra-tough stam DK's in cyrodiil 1v1, either you're not 1vXing enough or you've been lucky. My "Super OP unstoppable Stamblade" has immense trouble with them. Even with 4k+ WD they mitigate a ton, and then deal out 10k WB's and Leaps. There aren't a ton of them out there, because a lot of people aren't creative enough to think outside the box, but a good stam DK is incredibly difficult to take down 1v1.
Edited by RadioheadSh0t on October 16, 2015 5:56AMAldonius Direnni - Vet Altmer Sorc (AD)
Tyrus Telvanni - Vet Dunmer DK (AD)
Al Donius Bundy - Vet Imperial NB (AD)
Aldonius Brutus - Vet Orc DK (DC)0 -
AlcastClass Representative
There are a lot of things different with Stam dk to stam templar...
But the main advantage for stamina DK against Stamina Templ is the burst damage from the leap. What else is so much more significant?
Fossilize with Stun and when you break free you are rooted
_____________________________________________________________
AND the most important "Resource Management" with Helping Hands Passive + Battle Roar + Molten Armaments which I consider the most OP of all 4 classes for stamina based.
_____________________________________________________________
That is also why I can run a full weap/stam build with my DK due to those 3 small things whereas with other classes that is NOWHERE close possible.
I'm waiting for you to post a duel against a Magicka DK. The outcome would be even more hilarious than any of your current videos to date.
My stam DK build cannot kill perma Blocking Magicka Dks. Unless they are too slow breaking free of Fossilize.
Well if i might adjust the build a bit then yes, but who cares, usually I am just ignoring those permablockers.
I played a bit Magicka DK now, it seems solid its just the mobility that sucks balls.Edited by Alcast on October 16, 2015 9:06AMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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_Chaos✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There are a lot of things different with Stam dk to stam templar...
But the main advantage for stamina DK against Stamina Templ is the burst damage from the leap. What else is so much more significant?
Fossilize with Stun and when you break free you are rooted
_____________________________________________________________
AND the most important "Resource Management" with Helping Hands Passive + Battle Roar + Molten Armaments which I consider the most OP of all 4 classes for stamina based.
_____________________________________________________________
That is also why I can run a full weap/stam build with my DK due to those 3 small things whereas with other classes that is NOWHERE close possible.
I'm waiting for you to post a duel against a Magicka DK. The outcome would be even more hilarious than any of your current videos to date.
My stam DK build cannot kill perma Blocking Magicka Dks. Unless they are too slow breaking free of Fossilize.
Well if i might adjust the build a bit then yes, but who cares, usually I am just ignoring those permablockers.
I played a bit Magicka DK now, it seems solid its just the mobility that sucks balls.
Magicka DK permablocking... I'm confused'Chaos1 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
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There are a lot of things different with Stam dk to stam templar...
But the main advantage for stamina DK against Stamina Templ is the burst damage from the leap. What else is so much more significant?
Fossilize with Stun and when you break free you are rooted
_____________________________________________________________
AND the most important "Resource Management" with Helping Hands Passive + Battle Roar + Molten Armaments which I consider the most OP of all 4 classes for stamina based.
_____________________________________________________________
That is also why I can run a full weap/stam build with my DK due to those 3 small things whereas with other classes that is NOWHERE close possible.
I'm waiting for you to post a duel against a Magicka DK. The outcome would be even more hilarious than any of your current videos to date.
I played a bit Magicka DK now, it seems solid its just the mobility that sucks balls.
Well you see that is really the thing. You agree with us you just don't know it yet. You're in a nuke build and you're satisfied with your nuke damage, but you recognize that you don't have the mobility of the other classes to protect yourself and be generally viable and competitive in a nuke build. So what's the next logical step in your build? Replace the lack of mobility with defense and or healing. The result of which will be byebye nuke build hello fun noodle coupled with highly penetrated armor and greatly nerfed healing.
The magicka version of our class just cannot strap on + damage with no concerns over sustain and survival.Edited by Armitas on October 16, 2015 12:51PMRetired.
Nord mDK1 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
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There are a lot of things different with Stam dk to stam templar...
But the main advantage for stamina DK against Stamina Templ is the burst damage from the leap. What else is so much more significant?
Fossilize with Stun and when you break free you are rooted
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AND the most important "Resource Management" with Helping Hands Passive + Battle Roar + Molten Armaments which I consider the most OP of all 4 classes for stamina based.
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That is also why I can run a full weap/stam build with my DK due to those 3 small things whereas with other classes that is NOWHERE close possible.
I'm waiting for you to post a duel against a Magicka DK. The outcome would be even more hilarious than any of your current videos to date.
I played a bit Magicka DK now, it seems solid its just the mobility that sucks balls.
Well you see that is really the thing. You agree with us you just don't know it yet. You're in a nuke build and you're satisfied with your nuke damage, but you recognize that you don't have the mobility of the other classes to protect yourself and be generally viable and competitive in a nuke build. So what's the next logical step in your build? Replace the lack of mobility with defense and or healing. The result of which will be byebye nuke build hello fun noodle.
The magicka version of our class just cannot strap on + damage with no concerns over sustain and survival.
wich all other classes suffer too...
none the less i do agree that magica dk´s need an upgrade to dragon blood to match the cost of rally+vigor but aswell the healing out put too as no stamina user is not using both.
on the other side as i said in this thread dks mobility is balanced in regards of its awesome tank ability so if you insist in mobility you have to sacrifice tank ability wich means e.g. one of the reflective scales morphs to be change into an mobility tool wich boils down to either be more tanky or have the ability to avoid dmg in general - both is not possible as it would be highly unbalanced...spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
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Our class has 0 basic recovery or cost reduction. All it has is a twice nerfed battle roar and a highly inefficient stam return. The classes I refer too have that in their passives and through skills. That is what I mean when I say we can't just strap on damage with no concern to sustain. As a DK if you want any recovery or cost reduction you have to get it from gear, which is the same place you get your damage from. If you can get your recovery naturally through your class you can leave more room for damage from gear.
wich all other classes suffer too...
In regards to survival we rely on healing and generic defense. Armor is still very highly penetrated and healing is greatly nerfed, and nerfed again by disease. Mobility however, as a means of survival is still intact and resides in the class rather than the gear. To get any survival from armor or healing it will require heavy sacrifice to damage because once again we have to acquire it from the same place we get our damage...gear.
In the end, no matter how you tweak your magicka DK build your survival, your damage, and your sustain share the same limited resource, gear.Edited by Armitas on October 16, 2015 1:59PMRetired.
Nord mDK1 -
AlcastClass Representative
There are a lot of things different with Stam dk to stam templar...
But the main advantage for stamina DK against Stamina Templ is the burst damage from the leap. What else is so much more significant?
Fossilize with Stun and when you break free you are rooted
_____________________________________________________________
AND the most important "Resource Management" with Helping Hands Passive + Battle Roar + Molten Armaments which I consider the most OP of all 4 classes for stamina based.
_____________________________________________________________
That is also why I can run a full weap/stam build with my DK due to those 3 small things whereas with other classes that is NOWHERE close possible.
I'm waiting for you to post a duel against a Magicka DK. The outcome would be even more hilarious than any of your current videos to date.
I played a bit Magicka DK now, it seems solid its just the mobility that sucks balls.
Well you see that is really the thing. You agree with us you just don't know it yet. You're in a nuke build and you're satisfied with your nuke damage, but you recognize that you don't have the mobility of the other classes to protect yourself and be generally viable and competitive in a nuke build. So what's the next logical step in your build? Replace the lack of mobility with defense and or healing. The result of which will be byebye nuke build hello fun noodle coupled with highly penetrated armor and greatly nerfed healing.
The magicka version of our class just cannot strap on + damage with no concerns over sustain and survival.
Well if you run solo you must have a Restostaff equiped anyway.
Atm I run Destro/Resto and it works fine. If I only had Magicka Det, would make burst a bit easier again. But in general had no issues killing ppl.
I could upload some video stuff, but way too much fun killing ppl with my Stam Burstbuild lol >.>Edited by Alcast on October 16, 2015 2:04PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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