Racial class imalance from a Nord's perspective of course

Alucardo · October 2015

Zinaroth wrote: »

Noone asked for this?

Sorry, but did you not read the OP?

"they could easily have a 3 and 5 percent weapon damage bonus that would make sense"

BorrawinTheWarrior · October 2015

I can sorta agree with you. It would make sense for the Nords to have some sort of damage buff as a racial passive. BUT...I really can't complain about what they have. Nords make great tanks. Probably close to the best in the game.

Zinaroth · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Noone asked for this?

Sorry, but did you not read the OP?

"they could easily have a 3 and 5 percent weapon damage bonus that would make sense"

That was just a suggestion that has since been dismissed.

BorrawinTheWarrior wrote: »

I can sorta agree with you. It would make sense for the Nords to have some sort of damage buff as a racial passive. BUT...I really can't complain about what they have. Nords make great tanks. Probably close to the best in the game.

I have argued several times in this post that they really don't in the current iteration. Almost every single person who joins say this, but they couldn't be more wrong.

Kuroinu · October 2015

It'd be nice if during character creation we had a wide variety of racial passives to choose from and we just picked 4 of them depending on what we feel is best for our character. They would still have to be racial lore-abiding of course and perhaps a possible passive respec at a shrine in case later you change your mind on what you want this character to be. Each race would have to have a selection of offensive, defensive and perhaps some utility passives like movement speed or even something related to crafts.

OrphanHelgen · October 2015

As a dmg dealer myself, I usually in both pve and pvp like to buff myself up with the major armor and spell ressist buff.
As a nord you already have that dmg mitigrarion as pure passive so thats another thing you dont need to worry about as a DD. Might sound stupid sometimes, but I dont believe there will ever be room for pure glass cannons in eso, and the nord is a really nice race for a tanky dd. You also are not "stuck" with either magicka or stamina build

. Nord ftw m8, one of the best races out there, enjoy it.

hrothbern · October 2015

.

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

As a dmg dealer myself, I usually in both pve and pvp like to buff myself up with the major armor and spell ressist buff.
As a nord you already have that dmg mitigrarion as pure passive so thats another thing you dont need to worry about as a DD. Might sound stupid sometimes, but I dont believe there will ever be room for pure glass cannons in eso, and the nord is a really nice race for a tanky dd. You also are not "stuck" with either magicka or stamina build . Nord ftw m8, one of the best races out there, enjoy it.

"You also are not "stuck" with either magicka or stamina build "
yes to that ! Nord is versatile with the 6% damage mitigation. Can be profiled to DD and towards a tank. Kind of wholesome hybrid base.

That does however not conclude to that Nord has outstanding good racials !!!

If you do the full min-max math, there are better races for highly optimised and dedicated builds.

The nice thing of a Nord's versatility is that you can change your profile during playing the game. That is all the more important for a casual player, with limited play time, that can only keep up with one main character.
I took a Nord because I always play Nord in TES games.... and I am happy with the versatility. Played a couple of months as DD, as rogue and now tanky healer.

Nikkor · October 2015

Zinaroth wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Noone asked for this?

Sorry, but did you not read the OP?

"they could easily have a 3 and 5 percent weapon damage bonus that would make sense"

That was just a suggestion that has since been dismissed.

BorrawinTheWarrior wrote: »

I can sorta agree with you. It would make sense for the Nords to have some sort of damage buff as a racial passive. BUT...I really can't complain about what they have. Nords make great tanks. Probably close to the best in the game.

I have argued several times in this post that they really don't in the current iteration. Almost every single person who joins say this, but they couldn't be more wrong.

I am glad this has sparked some discussion honestly.

I want to ask everyone to really wipe the slates clean and tell me your thoughts on this part.

1. As far as I am concerned once you enter combat the 30 percent health regen bonus is not worth anything to me.

2. 6 percent damage mitigation = i have a dark elf night blade and i simply can't tell the difference. so take this too. I don't care for it.

cold resistance. not much I need to say here.

what you are left with is 9 percent max health.

what does the imperial have? 12 percent max health AND 10 percent max stamina. OR the same stamina and another 10 percent put into health via attribute points or whatever you want to use.

I am ignoring the returning health on melee to try and counter for the difference in the nord abilities that are also easier to argue merit.

i simply think a small amount of added weapon damage bonus in place of zero bonus to stam or magic regen and max stam/magica would be a totally balanced way to go. it might even make it mid to upper tier but bosmers imp's, reguards, dark elves would all still be on par or better.

Somewhere · October 2015

What I think is baffling is the fact that they changed Khajiit's Robust to also give stamina regen, but didn't apply the same changes to Orcs and Nords. Why not just be consistent and give it to the other two races as well? Sure they dropped the health regeneration by 10%, but I think, and I'm just going out on a limb here, I think 10% stamina regeneration is more helpful.

Honestly I'm with the people that we should just be able to pick from a pool of passives, or a pool of passives unique to each race that benefit all play styles. I mean I get people are like "no, lore", but back in Daggerfall no one had passives anyways except for Altmer's immunity to paralysis. Anyone could pick Adrenaline Rush or higher magicka or what have you. Further, where is the Altmer weakness to elements then? Why don't Orcs have Berserker Rage?? I just don't get it.

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

Everybody wants to be a cat... Because the cat's the only cat... Who knooows where it's at.

Everyone also wants to be Argonian because they can't swim fast like an Argonian to escape Slaughterfish

willymchilybily · October 2015

the problem with a thread "un-happy with racial passive, please change racial passive." is there is rarely the juxtaposed "happy with racial passive, please don't touch my racial passives"

i think 6% mitigation is a nice passive. For the right class and role. Also didnt robust get a stamina boost too or was it just khajitt robust?

but ultimately the OP joined on august the 10th. if you are unhappy about the race you chose that's ultimately down to you. The game lost its soft caps before you joined, there is no real excuse other than you chose a race, but now aren't happy and dont want to start over so just want the race to be "buffed" for what you want to do with it even at the detriment to others who may be perfectly happy and chose the race because they wanted those passives and actually did some research before making their choice.

BuggeX · October 2015

any Player without mitigation and just 60k Magicka/Stamina (exaggerated) will be roflstomped by any Player with some mitigation.

while you say 50% is easay achived as tanks, its not, it never was. (well 7/7 nirnhorned for spell res worked)

you still have to deal with Major/minior debuffs and Armor/Spell Penetration.
6% can attleast Counter one Major debuff

Junkogen · October 2015

Just be glad you're not an Argonian. Talk about useless passives...

Elektrakosh · October 2015

As my characters are Argonian, I agree wholeheartedly. Potion chugging? whoop de doo. Swimming? What is the point if there is no combat or being able to dive underwater?. Rapid mending is a joke.

The only thing I use is restoration staffs...and that is to keep my lizards alive!

Brrrofski · October 2015

Do nords still have frost resistance? If so, everyone is forgetting how useful that is...

LOL

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

Brrrofski wrote: »

Do nords still have frost resistance? If so, everyone is forgetting how useful that is...

LOL

Well Nords are the most resilient to gettin' "iced"!

Badum pish.

Brrrofski · October 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Do nords still have frost resistance? If so, everyone is forgetting how useful that is...

LOL

Well Nords are the most resilient to gettin' "iced"!

Badum pish.

"Cool" joke man

Zinaroth · October 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

any Player without mitigation and just 60k Magicka/Stamina (exaggerated) will be roflstomped by any Player with some mitigation.

while you say 50% is easay achived as tanks, its not, it never was. (well 7/7 nirnhorned for spell res worked)

you still have to deal with Major/minior debuffs and Armor/Spell Penetration.
6% can attleast Counter one Major debuff

The hard cap is achievable with 5/7 heavy armor legendary VR16 and a major defense buff. The tanks in my guild further confirmed last night that the Nord racial doesn't stack on top of it either. So you're contradicting what they're saying.

willymchilybily wrote: »

but ultimately the OP joined on august the 10th. if you are unhappy about the race you chose that's ultimately down to you. The game lost its soft caps before you joined, there is no real excuse other than you chose a race, but now aren't happy and dont want to start over so just want the race to be "buffed" for what you want to do with it even at the detriment to others who may be perfectly happy and chose the race because they wanted those passives and actually did some research before making their choice.

Yeah and I joined on the 9th of October if you are to believe forum join dates. That doesn't mean the Nord racial is fine as it is.

Junkogen wrote: »

Just be glad you're not an Argonian. Talk about useless passives...

There's a discussion thread on that aswell, feel free to join it.

Nikkor wrote: »

I am glad this has sparked some discussion honestly.

I carried the torch while you were absent.

BuggeX · October 2015

Zinaroth wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

any Player without mitigation and just 60k Magicka/Stamina (exaggerated) will be roflstomped by any Player with some mitigation.

while you say 50% is easay achived as tanks, its not, it never was. (well 7/7 nirnhorned for spell res worked)

you still have to deal with Major/minior debuffs and Armor/Spell Penetration.
6% can attleast Counter one Major debuff

The hard cap is achievable with 5/7 heavy armor legendary VR16 and a major defense buff. The tanks in my guild further confirmed last night that the Nord racial doesn't stack on top of it either. So you're contradicting what they're saying.

did they tyed with theoretical more than 50% mitigation without or with a debuff which lead them to heave less than 50%?

Darkeus · October 2015

nords cant be good dmg dealers... they are clumsy drunk and not that smart... so the racials are fine

)

Junkogen · October 2015

If you want the damage buff roll an Orc. At least you get 9% boost to health. Argonians only get a 6% health boost and then two other weak passives. Basically ZOS hates the Ebonheart Pact, but people loved Morrowind and Skyrim so that's why there's a population.

I do agree, though, that the racial system in this game is just as messed up as the Champion System in terms of needing attention and deterring people from playing. That's a big reason I don't play much at all anymore. They won't fix the imbalance. They just did those worthless tweaks to the racials, which still left Argonians at the bottom.

When will they actually balance them?

Xsorus · October 2015

I can't believe people are trying to argue Nords are comparable to the other races.... If you're going to tank..Both Imperial and Redguard are vastly superior to nord..There is no question....

If you're going to DPS, pretty much every single other race in the besides Argonian is going to be better..

Now you can do some weird Health Regen Builds with Nord (I run one, 3000 base health regen, 4500 with I drop below 60% health)

But even then....You can do better with so many other Races then Nord.

BuggeX · October 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Now you can do some weird Health Regen Builds with Nord (I run one, 3000 base health regen, 4500 with I drop below 60% health)

Now think about it with Major regen Buff from GDB and Emperorship = 9k healthregen, im sure you can push this even more.

Op as ***, nerf it Zos

Fizzlewizzle · October 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Now you can do some weird Health Regen Builds with Nord (I run one, 3000 base health regen, 4500 with I drop below 60% health)

Now think about it with Major regen Buff from GDB and Emperorship = 9k healthregen, im sure you can push this even more.

Op as ***, nerf it Zos

I highly doubt you can reach 9K. The 4.5K seems to be the max. (Counting emperor is a bit far stretched, as you can't count that in a normal build.)

Personally tested on an Argonian:
5/5 Orgnum's scales
2/2 Vampires Kiss.
2/2 Oblivion's Foe.
V15 Health regen drink.
Restoring Aura (Active and Passive).
V16 jewels with purple health regen bonus.
Steed Mundus stone.

Below 60% max health (for Orgnum's Scales bonus).

We made a suggestion in the argonian topic for a variety of the old Hist Skin skill, which would give argonians an increased health regen based on their % health remaining. Even in the best situation (with would mean when in execute range) they should only be able to reach around 6K health regen, and that's with the set-up written above.

newtinmpls · October 2015

Zheg wrote: »

For perspective, Argonians.
.

Daedra bless it - YES.

Why the dev's or someone has such a hate-on for them... I have no idea

Xsorus · October 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Now you can do some weird Health Regen Builds with Nord (I run one, 3000 base health regen, 4500 with I drop below 60% health)

Now think about it with Major regen Buff from GDB and Emperorship = 9k healthregen, im sure you can push this even more.

Op as ***, nerf it Zos

4500 is below 60% life with Coag up....You'd never get Emperorship though with the build simply because it lacks damage to kill anything past 1v1's...

Even then there other classes with higher damage (like sorcs) that you won't kill cause of lack of damage...Granted they won't kill you without help either.

Its really good at killing other DKs and Stamina Nightblades though.....

either way...soon as Race respec comes i'm respeccing out of Nord (and my argonian nightblade..yea i have the two worse races)

WaTeR-aBuSeR · October 2015

Racial passives work just fine in a single player game and this is where we run into issues in an MMO. Everyone wants to min/max their character, but also want to play the race they like the most. This is why I'd suggest creating a choice option for your racial passives which wouldn't really be racial at that point but would let players have what they want. Create a tier system ranking the passives based on how strong they are and let players choose one from tier 1, 2, and 3. This way if a player wants to be a wood elf tank they can. Does it fit the lore, not really but this isn't a single player rpg.

Edit: If a player wants to RP they could just select the passives that fit the lore. Instead we are forced to choose between the best character possible for what we want to do and playing the race we want. Lucky for me I like to heal and breton has always been my favorite which works. However, it sucks for those who want to be a race that naturally isn't as strong at a specific role although even in the real world there are outliers.

Cously · October 2015

It doesn't make sense Nords have reduced damage and two-handed weapons passive.

hrothbern · October 2015

Cously wrote: »

It doesn't make sense Nords have reduced damage and two-handed weapons passive.

what do you mean that Nords have the two-handed passive?

That passive does not give any strenght at all !!
is a traing passive and after you are lvl 50, like other "training" racials of races, there is no benefit at all.
Can be left away as well for all races.

dodgehopper_ESO · October 2015

I don't see why they couldn't give alternate Tank, Healer, and DPS passive choices for all the different races, if only to offer options for people. That being said I still feel Nord is a very versatile race. You're right, Nords don't get the 10% magicka and +4% magic damage of an Altmer. Then again Nords can soak a lot more damage than an Altmer can, which means when dropping points into the Nord you can afford to push damage more heavily, both in gear, attributes, and champion system. Min/Maxing has a place of course (mostly pve) but in PVP you are going to want mitigation, and truth be told every dps needs to hit certain Health/Mitigation quotas or fall flat on his face every time the enemy coughs. I for one actually really like Nord (and yes I use some).

Zinaroth · October 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

did they tyed with theoretical more than 50% mitigation without or with a debuff which lead them to heave less than 50%?

Sorry, could you rephrase that? Not sure I understand.