Ishammael wrote: »

I know others will vehemently disagree, but I think the dynamic ult DK from the 1.5 era was also a huge zerg-busting tool. Stack on crown? OK I'll zerg dive and bats bats bats. Spread out? I'm f*ked.

I just Play a DK and this since the Alpha,
and also roflstopmped Zergs alone,

but cmon, this was the most broken *** ever made in Teso,

I want a challange if i fight more ppls, not just to face roll a Keyboard anything pointed to a ulti.


You guys just want a solution for zergs, so do i.
But we Need to find Problem itself which cause to lead to zerg.

Ishammael wrote: »

Here are my overall suggestions:
1. Uncap AoE completely
2. Dynamic Ult
3. HP ratio back to 1.5:1:1
4. Barrier nerfed to 6 targets
5. Prox det scales from basically 0 dmg against 1 player to current dmg against 10+.

you know wath this will lead to?

a bombzerg with 20+ DKs Batswarm through Cyrodiil and nothing can stop them.


The aoe Cap itself is neither the Problem nor the Solution for zerging.
It may be a fix for some Players so they can stomp zergs with a small Group.
But its not a fix for the majority of the playerbase, cause they will still not be able to go 10v24

Its like @Rylana allready said, removing the aoe cap will lead that strong bombzergs, dont know the guilds she mentioned cause im on EU, but also there are strong bombgroups, will be even stronger and roflstomb even bigger Zergs.

There are just a few bombzergs which you can beat atm just with outnummbering.
Abraxus(DC) Zergs and Karishas(EP) Zerg, if you remove the aoe cap, you take one Thing away why this Groups can be beaten.

The AOE mitigation from the cap is a good think in pvp.

The removal of the aoe cap will also lead that Battswarmin Emperor DKs will be aigan in a Godmode, not even the mention Bombzerg are able to beat them down

Ehhhh...

I know it's been said before, but people don't wanna know what a good guild is gonna do with uncapped AOE. It's not like we haven't played that game before.

What people don't get about running a raid is that a good one is better than the sum of it's parts. It's not 24 players, it's 24 players with builds designed to compliment each other, playing in such a way to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. That's not something you're going to code around without bringing in some absolutely ridiculous levels of individual damage/CC. Really, that's why your 4-man isn't wrecking a raid. We're doing exactly what you do but on a larger scale, and we have more players to assign to specialty roles. If we want a healer with 6k regen to only hit Cleanse, we can have that, if we want a NB with 50k stam hitting rapids every second cast, we can have that too.

A small man doesn't have the luxury of specialty roles or glass cannons or tanks. I been there, did it for ages. You have to be tanky, but you have to hit hard because no one is picking up your slack. Your healer can't be throwing out max high burst heals and also spec for high dps, sacrifices have to be made. Sacrifices a larger group does not and will never have to make.

In the end, EVERY SINGLE META this game has gone through has seen elite guilds adapt and use it to wreck face. Pre-aoe cap, aoe cap, etc. etc. Right now, just about the only thing that kills a good raid (aside from another good raid) is enough bodies being thrown at them that they can't cut through them fast enough before the sheer weight of it begins dropping people. Giving me capless aoe isn't going to make my raid squishier, it's going to make us hit much harder and take away one of our main weaknesses.

I think people have this image in their mind of their 4 man going in on a raid and dropping bodies, kiting off, rinse and repeat, beating the slow, cumbersome zerg with superior tactics and smarts. In reality those good raids are made up of players just as good as the small mans attacking them... there's just more of them and you can't put 4 good players against 24 good players and expect the 4 to win.

I'm all for improvements to the game, but AOE cap removal seems like a big step sideways for me. I'm all for it, I think it will relieve lag and all that jazz, but people who think it's going to change how raids play are mistaken. Stacking tight on crown these days isn't so much for damage reduction as it is all the other htings that make a raid tick. When two groups bomb each other one usually just MELTS, the aoe cap means nothing, people die FAST. Being close to crown allows for tighter maneuvers with a larger group, allows for aoe heals/purges to hit the group, allows for shields and barriers to hit the full group, allows for stacking in ground damage reduction ultis, AND THE NUMBER ONE thing it does is allows the raid to focus its damage into a white hot ball of death. That's the big one, and the reason why I think it's a poorly conceived idea.

Post AOE cap will be much like the old days of no AOE cap were: sure a group's a lil squishier, but they still have 8 templars, and their min-maxed dps is going to uttelry annihilate anything that comes close to them.

Frawr wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ehhhh...

I know it's been said before, but people don't wanna know what a good guild is gonna do with uncapped AOE. It's not like we haven't played that game before.

What people don't get about running a raid is that a good one is better than the sum of it's parts. It's not 24 players, it's 24 players with builds designed to compliment each other, playing in such a way to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. That's not something you're going to code around without bringing in some absolutely ridiculous levels of individual damage/CC. Really, that's why your 4-man isn't wrecking a raid. We're doing exactly what you do but on a larger scale, and we have more players to assign to specialty roles. If we want a healer with 6k regen to only hit Cleanse, we can have that, if we want a NB with 50k stam hitting rapids every second cast, we can have that too.

A small man doesn't have the luxury of specialty roles or glass cannons or tanks. I been there, did it for ages. You have to be tanky, but you have to hit hard because no one is picking up your slack. Your healer can't be throwing out max high burst heals and also spec for high dps, sacrifices have to be made. Sacrifices a larger group does not and will never have to make.

In the end, EVERY SINGLE META this game has gone through has seen elite guilds adapt and use it to wreck face. Pre-aoe cap, aoe cap, etc. etc. Right now, just about the only thing that kills a good raid (aside from another good raid) is enough bodies being thrown at them that they can't cut through them fast enough before the sheer weight of it begins dropping people. Giving me capless aoe isn't going to make my raid squishier, it's going to make us hit much harder and take away one of our main weaknesses.

I think people have this image in their mind of their 4 man going in on a raid and dropping bodies, kiting off, rinse and repeat, beating the slow, cumbersome zerg with superior tactics and smarts. In reality those good raids are made up of players just as good as the small mans attacking them... there's just more of them and you can't put 4 good players against 24 good players and expect the 4 to win.

I'm all for improvements to the game, but AOE cap removal seems like a big step sideways for me. I'm all for it, I think it will relieve lag and all that jazz, but people who think it's going to change how raids play are mistaken. Stacking tight on crown these days isn't so much for damage reduction as it is all the other htings that make a raid tick. When two groups bomb each other one usually just MELTS, the aoe cap means nothing, people die FAST. Being close to crown allows for tighter maneuvers with a larger group, allows for aoe heals/purges to hit the group, allows for shields and barriers to hit the full group, allows for stacking in ground damage reduction ultis, AND THE NUMBER ONE thing it does is allows the raid to focus its damage into a white hot ball of death. That's the big one, and the reason why I think it's a poorly conceived idea.

Post AOE cap will be much like the old days of no AOE cap were: sure a group's a lil squishier, but they still have 8 templars, and their min-maxed dps is going to uttelry annihilate anything that comes close to them.

A 24 man organised train is very different to a zerg.

Of course the 24 man train will be hard to kill when it is active, however, a carefully planned and timed assault by a smaller group could easily wipe a bigger organised group. But only is aoe caps were removed.

I also agree with above post that you might very well see 20 man batman squads. These would be very effective vs zerg.

I guess that the counter to this would be to use area cc and damage reductions to slow them and steel tornado to kill them. Again though, it comes down to timing.

The game was designed, from the start, to have spammable abilities. The game works fine like this as a single player game but suffers as an MMO.

Ultimately, removing the caps will help better players and hinder worse players (probably the reason that they exist in the first place).

So I don't know what is the best course of action.

I still prefer to have the aoe batswarm and cc spam game than this castrated version of it that currently exists.

When people say zerg these days they usually mean a 24 man guild raid.

I still don't see how AOE caps are going to allow a small group to wipe us anymore than they can now. If a small group has the DPS to break through 6 barriers and 8+ healers than either my group is REALLY bad or the damage in this game is so insane that it's literally an FPS.

Just remember, if you can do it, I can do it. If your four man can bomb my group and do that much damage, i can have a heat zone of 12 meters around my raid you won't be able to touch without being disintegrated, and I mean that sincerely.

I'm fine with AOE caps going, I just think people have the wrong idea about why they should go and what will happen. Good guilds adapt, always. The meta has gone from hellfire dps, to tanky, to sustain, and huge DPS again, and all over. VE itself has had multiple transitions, from being extremely glass cannon to more tanky and back again, we've done the spectrum. So has every other good guild. AOE caps being lifted, in my opinion, are going to make it easier for elite small mans to wipe baddies. And yet, everyone will still complain about the 24-man zerg rolling over them, because in the end you just made those guilds hit a lot harder and that's about it.

Satiar wrote: »

Ehhhh...

I know it's been said before, but people don't wanna know what a good guild is gonna do with uncapped AOE. It's not like we haven't played that game before.

What people don't get about running a raid is that a good one is better than the sum of it's parts. It's not 24 players, it's 24 players with builds designed to compliment each other, playing in such a way to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. That's not something you're going to code around without bringing in some absolutely ridiculous levels of individual damage/CC. Really, that's why your 4-man isn't wrecking a raid. We're doing exactly what you do but on a larger scale, and we have more players to assign to specialty roles. If we want a healer with 6k regen to only hit Cleanse, we can have that, if we want a NB with 50k stam hitting rapids every second cast, we can have that too.

A small man doesn't have the luxury of specialty roles or glass cannons or tanks. I been there, did it for ages. You have to be tanky, but you have to hit hard because no one is picking up your slack. Your healer can't be throwing out max high burst heals and also spec for high dps, sacrifices have to be made. Sacrifices a larger group does not and will never have to make.

In the end, EVERY SINGLE META this game has gone through has seen elite guilds adapt and use it to wreck face. Pre-aoe cap, aoe cap, etc. etc. Right now, just about the only thing that kills a good raid (aside from another good raid) is enough bodies being thrown at them that they can't cut through them fast enough before the sheer weight of it begins dropping people. Giving me capless aoe isn't going to make my raid squishier, it's going to make us hit much harder and take away one of our main weaknesses.

I think people have this image in their mind of their 4 man going in on a raid and dropping bodies, kiting off, rinse and repeat, beating the slow, cumbersome zerg with superior tactics and smarts. In reality those good raids are made up of players just as good as the small mans attacking them... there's just more of them and you can't put 4 good players against 24 good players and expect the 4 to win.

I'm all for improvements to the game, but AOE cap removal seems like a big step sideways for me. I'm all for it, I think it will relieve lag and all that jazz, but people who think it's going to change how raids play are mistaken. Stacking tight on crown these days isn't so much for damage reduction as it is all the other htings that make a raid tick. When two groups bomb each other one usually just MELTS, the aoe cap means nothing, people die FAST. Being close to crown allows for tighter maneuvers with a larger group, allows for aoe heals/purges to hit the group, allows for shields and barriers to hit the full group, allows for stacking in ground damage reduction ultis, AND THE NUMBER ONE thing it does is allows the raid to focus its damage into a white hot ball of death. That's the big one, and the reason why I think it's a poorly conceived idea.

Post AOE cap will be much like the old days of no AOE cap were: sure a group's a lil squishier, but they still have 8 templars, and their min-maxed dps is going to uttelry annihilate anything that comes close to them.

QFT and nail meet head.

Too many people have this idea stuck in their head that people in Haxus, VE, GoS, Rage, and the multitude of others past and present cant fight outside of their balltrain.

I hate to say it so bluntly folks, but just because you run small doesnt mean youre better players. Chances are even I may very well be better than some of you in duels, 2v2, 4v4 and the like (all things I did before I ever joined GoS)

This story repeats for quite a lot of my brothers and sisters in Guild of Shadows. We are all solid players working at a common goal now. So please, stop insulting our in game abilities by using "zerg" in the derogatory to say we are "bad", I assure you we are not.

Then again a lot of people have short memories, like a couple months back when a eight man GoS elite group mopped the floor with some of the better small mans out there, and even dropped MBF in an open field fight outside of Sej in what was a pretty damn fun little skirmish, deaths on both sides.

I take it as a personal insult because I know that a lot of it is wishful thinking, excuses, and hopes and dreams talking versus facts. Just because I run a full glass spec with prox det and negate in a bomb group most of the time doesnt mean I cant whip your ass 1v1 or even 1vX, because I have.

I have long wished for 4v4 or similar arena style gameplay, because in my past games that has been where I performed the best. Id reckon that here id do much the same.

Solution

• Keep caps where they have them for player skill based AOE
• Have no cap on Seige AOE
• Turn all siege damage to Irresistible except against Siege Shields
• Give all purge abilities a scaling 50% cost like Bolt Escape

Job done

BuggeX wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Solution

• Keep caps where they have them for player skill based AOE
• Have no cap on Seige AOE
• Turn all siege damage to Irresistible
• Give Purge a scaling 50% cost like Bolt Escape

Job done

give any class a classpurge to then

coalugating blood for DK
empowered ward for sorc

OK I've revised my initial post - cheers for the suggestion.

Couldn't disagree more with what nonsense he is talking about at 59m.
"Group of 4 used to wipe raids of 20" Well why on earth should you be able to do equal damage to unlimited number of targets? Why should one steel tornado hit twenty targets with equal damage? That's what he is doing in his videos mostly. Magicka detonations up, enter a group of people, start spamming aoe.

Katinas wrote: »

Well why on earth should you be able to do equal damage to unlimited number of targets? Why should one steel tornado hit twenty targets with equal damage?

If you think those are ridiculous viewpoints, then rationale discussion is impossible.

Big groups already have the advantage of many players, they dont need help from in-game mechanics.

AOE caps are a great idea but they work in the wrong direction.

Damage AOE caps: increase damage by 25% if you deal damage to more than 6 enemies.
Healing AOE caps: decrease healing by 25% if you heal more than 12 allies.

Problem solved.

Ishammael wrote: »

Why should they not? Why should any group above 6 get artificial damage mitigation?

Why should someone be able to kill an infinite amount of enemies, if given an opportunity, with an aoe ability? AOE cap is the best thing that came to this game and what he is speaking should be reversed 100% to make a point of what a terrible idea would it be to remove them.

Satiar wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ehhhh...

I know it's been said before, but people don't wanna know what a good guild is gonna do with uncapped AOE. It's not like we haven't played that game before.

What people don't get about running a raid is that a good one is better than the sum of it's parts. It's not 24 players, it's 24 players with builds designed to compliment each other, playing in such a way to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. That's not something you're going to code around without bringing in some absolutely ridiculous levels of individual damage/CC. Really, that's why your 4-man isn't wrecking a raid. We're doing exactly what you do but on a larger scale, and we have more players to assign to specialty roles. If we want a healer with 6k regen to only hit Cleanse, we can have that, if we want a NB with 50k stam hitting rapids every second cast, we can have that too.

A small man doesn't have the luxury of specialty roles or glass cannons or tanks. I been there, did it for ages. You have to be tanky, but you have to hit hard because no one is picking up your slack. Your healer can't be throwing out max high burst heals and also spec for high dps, sacrifices have to be made. Sacrifices a larger group does not and will never have to make.

In the end, EVERY SINGLE META this game has gone through has seen elite guilds adapt and use it to wreck face. Pre-aoe cap, aoe cap, etc. etc. Right now, just about the only thing that kills a good raid (aside from another good raid) is enough bodies being thrown at them that they can't cut through them fast enough before the sheer weight of it begins dropping people. Giving me capless aoe isn't going to make my raid squishier, it's going to make us hit much harder and take away one of our main weaknesses.

I think people have this image in their mind of their 4 man going in on a raid and dropping bodies, kiting off, rinse and repeat, beating the slow, cumbersome zerg with superior tactics and smarts. In reality those good raids are made up of players just as good as the small mans attacking them... there's just more of them and you can't put 4 good players against 24 good players and expect the 4 to win.

I'm all for improvements to the game, but AOE cap removal seems like a big step sideways for me. I'm all for it, I think it will relieve lag and all that jazz, but people who think it's going to change how raids play are mistaken. Stacking tight on crown these days isn't so much for damage reduction as it is all the other htings that make a raid tick. When two groups bomb each other one usually just MELTS, the aoe cap means nothing, people die FAST. Being close to crown allows for tighter maneuvers with a larger group, allows for aoe heals/purges to hit the group, allows for shields and barriers to hit the full group, allows for stacking in ground damage reduction ultis, AND THE NUMBER ONE thing it does is allows the raid to focus its damage into a white hot ball of death. That's the big one, and the reason why I think it's a poorly conceived idea.

Post AOE cap will be much like the old days of no AOE cap were: sure a group's a lil squishier, but they still have 8 templars, and their min-maxed dps is going to uttelry annihilate anything that comes close to them.

A 24 man organised train is very different to a zerg.

Of course the 24 man train will be hard to kill when it is active, however, a carefully planned and timed assault by a smaller group could easily wipe a bigger organised group. But only is aoe caps were removed.

I also agree with above post that you might very well see 20 man batman squads. These would be very effective vs zerg.

I guess that the counter to this would be to use area cc and damage reductions to slow them and steel tornado to kill them. Again though, it comes down to timing.

The game was designed, from the start, to have spammable abilities. The game works fine like this as a single player game but suffers as an MMO.

Ultimately, removing the caps will help better players and hinder worse players (probably the reason that they exist in the first place).

So I don't know what is the best course of action.

I still prefer to have the aoe batswarm and cc spam game than this castrated version of it that currently exists.

When people say zerg these days they usually mean a 24 man guild raid.

I still don't see how AOE caps are going to allow a small group to wipe us anymore than they can now. If a small group has the DPS to break through 6 barriers and 8+ healers than either my group is REALLY bad or the damage in this game is so insane that it's literally an FPS.

Just remember, if you can do it, I can do it. If your four man can bomb my group and do that much damage, i can have a heat zone of 12 meters around my raid you won't be able to touch without being disintegrated, and I mean that sincerely.

I'm fine with AOE caps going, I just think people have the wrong idea about why they should go and what will happen. Good guilds adapt, always. The meta has gone from hellfire dps, to tanky, to sustain, and huge DPS again, and all over. VE itself has had multiple transitions, from being extremely glass cannon to more tanky and back again, we've done the spectrum. So has every other good guild. AOE caps being lifted, in my opinion, are going to make it easier for elite small mans to wipe baddies. And yet, everyone will still complain about the 24-man zerg rolling over them, because in the end you just made those guilds hit a lot harder and that's about it.

@Satiar @Rylana You both are in these large groups and proposing removing AOE caps will just make you guys *that much stronger*. Against groups of equal or larger sizes with less organization - it should. To say I dont realize this or something is ridiculous.

You both demean the efforts of small groups as much as you say you feel demeaned in your style of play. Nowhere do I say "players in these large groups have no talent." Again and again I have to say - yes, there are very good players in these groups, some of the best Ive fought in the game. And yet @Rylana continues to go on about 'glory days'. Do you forget you used to run in 20+ man groups @Rylana and die to my 4 man? Are you in denial? @Satiar Do you not remember countless battles of Hijinx 20+ groups dying to my 4 man? These things happened. We lost a lot of fights too. But we had a chance to win them just as well. But somehow, after having AOE caps for a majority of the game, these things either escape you or you have forcibly deleted them from your memory and you want to argue in favor of "dont change anything because were only going to do more damage to your group". Sorry - in the cases of the smaller groups we run, you wont do more damage, it will be the same exact amount were already taking.

You interpret removing caps as were going to meet you in open field 4v24 and take you on in a battle. Youd have to be pretty low quality skill for this to ever play out. The reality is your groups died in the past being taken at choke points or flanked while engaging another battle. If we did that in today's PVP system, youre one barrier away from voiding our flank entirely.

AOE caps arent the only thing to address, they are the first step in actually making things even despite the size of your group. Barrier, purge, ult gen are 3 pretty focused subjects that should go hand in hand. But the most glaring issue of them all is AOE caps.

You said @Satiar like 'yea sure maybe this will help performance or something' in passing like performance hasnt been something that has haunted Cyrodiil. When youre running in your ball group and youre lagging together, its not that bad. When youre not in one of those groups trying to fight people on the edges of 2 ball groups clashing, poor performance gets you killed really quick - and it is incredibly frustrating. Frustrating enough that youd rather not take part in the mess and you end up doing something else. Many players decide to opt out altogether, and many dont have a voice here because theyre not longer playing.

If your arguments for AOE caps are going to continue revolving around player egos, fear of making larger skilled groups stronger, or 1vX players wanting to solo zergs - please stop posting. Im tired of having to follow up rebuttals for this garbage. Do me a favor and explain why AOE caps are good for mass PvP - tell me why AOE caps are good in a direct sense. It is good because it handicaps you from being able to kill 40-50+ players? Im sure thats your experience in TS guys. "Good fight guys but those AOE caps should keep us from winning this one guys, for balance!" It all really lends itself well to the performance of Cyro and engaging and interesting PvP as well doesnt it? Basically the current AOE cap translates to if you are outnumbered at a certain point, you shouldnt bother showing up. This happens on a lot of campaigns with skewed population. You literally cant even put up a fight, so there is no point doing so, and you go somewhere else.

This is not a 1 change fix all proposal. It is the first and best step to change. If you have another issue that is more relevant to this issue of balance, Id love to hear it. The only one even close to it is static vs dynamic ult gen.

@Rylana Come in TS, and stop posting on the forums. Im honestly tired of reading your posts. Theyre disgusting.

BuggeX wrote: »

do you rly think ist "healthy" for the game to just bomb a blob of 20 Player to oblivion with 4?

While we speak about pvp yes, the cap is also affecting pve right now.
That is wath you all forgett, no matter wath you Change to combat or skills, pve will suffer.

And this should be the last think Zos should do.

So Zos have to rework, rethink, redo Cyro/IC itself, give Players more objectivs, Goals, is the way to go.

and dont come up with zos could just do it with battlespirit, we both know zos will not.......

Yes its been mentioned before. You would simply buff resistance on trash mobs where AOE is used already to mitigate it - or raise their health limit.

And is it "healthy" for 4 people to bomb 20? Is it healthy that 4 couldnt engage the 20 not because they are grossly outnumbered, but because artificial mitigators are going to be the most deciding factor in whether we can get through them while smart healing will focus those who need it the most? Realistically 4 people going against a lot of the named guilds of 20 people will result in the 4 people dying, same as it does today. What it means is things are equal, instead of stacked in favor of the group - leaving out the fact that theyre already outnumbered to begin with. Is that healthy? Yes. Is it healthy how it is now? No.

BuggeX wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

do you rly think ist "healthy" for the game to just bomb a blob of 20 Player to oblivion with 4?

While we speak about pvp yes, the cap is also affecting pve right now.
That is wath you all forgett, no matter wath you Change to combat or skills, pve will suffer.

And this should be the last think Zos should do.

So Zos have to rework, rethink, redo Cyro/IC itself, give Players more objectivs, Goals, is the way to go.

and dont come up with zos could just do it with battlespirit, we both know zos will not.......

Yes its been mentioned before. You would simply buff resistance on trash mobs where AOE is used already to mitigate it - or raise their health limit.

and exactly there is you Problem,

not anyone has the skills we do, or some other strong Players.
Most Players in Eso have allready Problem to fight 5 Mobs in Upper Carg, not to mention a Group in IC.
And you will just buff them to remove the cap?
This will cause wath i mention above, the Problem with the market

you have to rething somthing

Dont have to rethink anything - this is really only relevant to end game content like trials. Most other stuff isnt an issue. If you fight 5 mobs in upper crag youre not affected by AOE caps.

Its like youre going out of your way to find reasons not to make this happen - moving these figures is an easy change actually. Im proposing simplified solutions, not overly complex ones. Thats asking for trouble from design perspective.

Katinas wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Why should they not? Why should any group above 6 get artificial damage mitigation?

Why should someone be able to kill an infinite amount of enemies, if given an opportunity, with an aoe ability? AOE cap is the best thing that came to this game and what he is speaking should be reversed 100% to make a point of what a terrible idea would it be to remove them.

You need to provide some examples, numbers, or something to back up claims of "terrible idea" and "best thing that came to this game". Fengrush, me, and others have provided ours.

How do you argue that 50% dmg mitigation over 6 players and 75% dmg mitigation over 24 players is good for this game?

FENGRUSH wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

do you rly think ist "healthy" for the game to just bomb a blob of 20 Player to oblivion with 4?

While we speak about pvp yes, the cap is also affecting pve right now.
That is wath you all forgett, no matter wath you Change to combat or skills, pve will suffer.

And this should be the last think Zos should do.

So Zos have to rework, rethink, redo Cyro/IC itself, give Players more objectivs, Goals, is the way to go.

and dont come up with zos could just do it with battlespirit, we both know zos will not.......

Yes its been mentioned before. You would simply buff resistance on trash mobs where AOE is used already to mitigate it - or raise their health limit.

and exactly there is you Problem,

not anyone has the skills we do, or some other strong Players.
Most Players in Eso have allready Problem to fight 5 Mobs in Upper Carg, not to mention a Group in IC.
And you will just buff them to remove the cap?
This will cause wath i mention above, the Problem with the market

you have to rething somthing

Dont have to rethink anything - this is really only relevant to end game content like trials. Most other stuff isnt an issue. If you fight 5 mobs in upper crag youre not affected by AOE caps.

Its like youre going out of your way to find reasons not to make this happen - moving these figures is an easy change actually. Im proposing simplified solutions, not overly complex ones. Thats asking for trouble from design perspective.

His example was five mobs in upper crag, i.e. totally moot.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Katinas wrote: »

Well why on earth should you be able to do equal damage to unlimited number of targets? Why should one steel tornado hit twenty targets with equal damage?

If you think those are ridiculous viewpoints, then rationale discussion is impossible.

I am beginning to think that rational discussion is indeed impossible.