Dear Zenimax it is time you move Thaumaturge.

NinjaApacHe · October 2015

I think this is been a mistake you made: !Thaumaturge:Mighty=TheApprentice:TheRitual). Therefore Thaumaturge should me moved to The Apprentice Champion tree as at 30 points in this tree we got "Spell Precision" (+12% spell crit), like physical damagers get, in the Ritual tree, "Perfect Strike". It is time you adjust this. Thank you!

His Crayness · October 2015

This is 100% true.

The placement of Thaum makes no sense at all

You are so much better off if you are elemental based.

SleepyTroll · October 2015

What should they trade it with?

Brrrofski · October 2015

It sits well for nightblades where it is. They use a mix of physical and magic damage.

Annoying for my sorc though. I put points into it for frags/curse/mines. But that 30 point passive is useless.

Cinnamon_Spider · October 2015

The exploiter passive from that tree is good for Sorcerers and Templars.

Mantic0r3 · October 2015

thaumaturge contains poison which is only dealt by stamina dds, as soon as it would be moved the other side of the fence would start arguing.

also pure magic dmg is pretty much 50:50 between magicka and stamina dps

Springt-Über-Zwerge · October 2015

As a Templar I would love to see that I hate having to put 100 points into a tree where I get no useful passive and with the next update Templars can't even get the last passive from the apprentice because the CPs are capped to 501 ...

AlnilamE · October 2015

I actually think having these stars/passives distributed in a way that is NOT optimized is a good thing.

You need to make choices that way.

PBpsy · October 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

I actually think having these stars/passives distributed in a way that is NOT optimized is a good thing.

You need to make choices that way.

Good. So can we move Mighty to the Atronach for you know balance, choice and ****s and giggles ?

Scyantific · October 2015

I agree that it was a bad placement, but then again magicka users get shafted overall because they have to deal with 2 types of damage for magic whereas stamina users only have to really worry about physical damage.

Elloa · October 2015

Well, I'm not really annoyed to see it there. There is Stamina build that can enjoy the bonus for poison damage. Or even Magical damage.
Now its true that for Magika user, the passive of the Ritual are not interesting.

NinjaApacHe · October 2015

I do not know a stamina player who puts points in Thaumaturge. Thaumaturge is for magicka users, period.

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

What difference does it make where it is? It's not like it's hurting anything for it to be where it is, or where anything is where it is for that matter.

olsborg · October 2015

The whole cp system needs a revamp, the passives, the threes...everything. It needs a complete revamp.

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

olsborg wrote: »

The whole cp system needs a revamp, the passives, the threes...everything. It needs a complete revamp.

You shouldn't stray off topic like that. This thread is about Thaumaturge, not the Champion System in general.

DerpyShadowz · October 2015

Brrrofski wrote: »

It sits well for nightblades where it is. They use a mix of physical and magic damage.

Annoying for my sorc though. I put points into it for frags/curse/mines. But that 30 point passive is useless.

Its just as annoying for Magicka NB having to put 100 points in to a tree where nothing else benefits us, So i disagree that it sits well for NB, only for some really weird niche pvp stamina builds perhaps, but otherwise no.

Master_Kas · October 2015

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

I do not know a stamina player who puts points in Thaumaturge. Thaumaturge is for magicka users, period.

I put points into it on my stam nb, because it increases the damage on Soul harvest, soul tether, bats and disease/poison.

Just sayin'

Edit: My mighty is maxed out, that's why ^^

willymchilybily · October 2015

its good where it is for poisons, eg bow, it does more than just magical damage so should not be considered from only one perspective.

Also isnt it where it is to intentionally to limit magicka dps buffing.

pretty much you are asking for a buff to magicka dps. NB and Templar and 2/3rds of Sorc abilities. I dont like the sound of making crystal frags more powerful whilst boosting crit chance on a sorc running crit surge. Sounds like a way reset the current balance

Brrrofski · October 2015

I Highlander l wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

It sits well for nightblades where it is. They use a mix of physical and magic damage.

Annoying for my sorc though. I put points into it for frags/curse/mines. But that 30 point passive is useless.

Its just as annoying for Magicka NB having to put 100 points in to a tree where nothing else benefits us, So i disagree that it sits well for NB, only for some really weird niche pvp stamina builds perhaps, but otherwise no.

Ok, for stamina nightblades then.

Poison for bow users.

Magica damage for ultimates like soul tether, soul hafvest, dawnbreaker and a few other things like grim focus.

Dualrifle · October 2015

What about stamina NB. Some class skill even though it scaled from Wd and stam it still giving magic damage, for example killer blade, power extraction. Even the crit chance were calculated from weapon crit.

Suggestions :
1. Remove magic dam from thaum, increase poison / disease bonus. Change NB skill damage to poison.
2. I think we better go with option 1... I have no other idea..

lolo_01b16_ESO · October 2015

The 75 and 120 cp passive of the ritual is usefull for every dps, so you should be happy that you can spend points there without wasting them on a useless perk.

PBpsy wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

I actually think having these stars/passives distributed in a way that is NOT optimized is a good thing.

You need to make choices that way.

Good. So can we move Mighty to the Atronach for you know balance, choice and ****s and giggles ?

Actually I'd like that. Then I could get the "set enemy of balance when you roll dodge" passive on my stamblade without wasting my cp in a perk that only buffs my light attacks.

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

I do not know a stamina player who puts points in Thaumaturge. Thaumaturge is for magicka users, period.

My stamina templar and stamina NB get more use from Thaumaturge than my magicka dk. And a stamina sorc and stamina dk would need points in elemental expert to buff their ultimates + dots.

Xantaria · October 2015

Scyantific wrote: »

I agree that it was a bad placement, but then again magicka users get shafted overall because they have to deal with 2 types of damage for magic whereas stamina users only have to really worry about physical damage.

Wrong.

I as a Stamina DK have Magic Damage (Trap Beast / Camouflaged Hunter), Poison Damage (Poison Injection), Fire Damage (Unstable Flame, Standard of Might, Scorched Earth, Flames of Oblivion) and Physical Damage (Everything Else). I'm actively utilizing all those damage types in my build.

In addition to that a lot of Set bonuses deal non-physical damage. Think about that as well.

Kaspar · October 2015

I think it's not too badly placed since it allows you to put points into a tree that heavy Magicka users might otherwise dismiss thereby missing the weapon critical passive which is useful when using physical attacks even though physical attacks are not their main source of DPS. As a Magicka based Templar in heavy I do like getting into the fray and crushing some skulls with dual sharpened maces from time to time and having the weapon critical passive as a by-product of increasing Magicka damage is a bonus.

danno8 · October 2015

Magicka Templars suffer the most from this with 11/12 of our damage skills using magic damage, this one is a no brainer to take all the way to 100.

What's annoying about this is that most stamina builds have 3 super good stars in that tree, all lined up with the crit passive. That's the problem. It just seems unbalanced.

PBpsy · October 2015

willymchilybily wrote: »

its good where it is for poisons, eg bow, it does more than just magical damage so should not be considered from only one perspective.

Also isnt it where it is to intentionally to limit magicka dps buffing.

pretty much you are asking for a buff to magicka dps. NB and Templar and 2/3rds of Sorc abilities. I dont like the sound of making crystal frags more powerful whilst boosting crit chance on a sorc running crit surge. Sounds like a way reset the current balance

The problem has nothing to do with Magicka dps. Most non dk magicka dps will go Elfborn/Spell erosion until they unlocked spell precision then mostly Thaumaturge until they cap.Those sorc with CF do have plenty in Thaumaturge.The problem is that this delays Foresight and Arcane well to something like CP 700.Those things are hardly OP. People are bothered by that mainly and the fact that a stam based only needs 360 to get their first CP120 passives.

The other problem is that after you use those 100CP in the ritual the only useful unlock for magicka requires you to put 20 points into something useless if you want it.

I would actual not mind the location if the Ritual had one more star that had some magicka benefit and Opportunist gave bonus to both Physical and magical on interrupt.

Lava_Croft · October 2015

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

I do not know a stamina player who puts points in Thaumaturge. Thaumaturge is for magicka users, period.

Any Stamina user wanting to up his Poison damage will invest in Thaumaturge. @DeanTheCat is one of them.

Detector · October 2015

Thaumaturge give poison-damage too - it's actual for NB-stamina-builds or some stamina-sets (for example - viper). And all ultimate-abilities use magic damage - it's actual for all (we do not have ultimate-abilities with physical damage). So why ZOS must move Thaumaturge?

PBpsy · October 2015

Detector wrote: »

Thaumaturge give poison-damage too - it's actual for NB-stamina-builds or some stamina-sets (for example - viper). And all ultimate-abilities use magic damage - it's actual for all (we do not have ultimate-abilities with physical damage). So why ZOS must move Thaumaturge?

If it's alright where it is at for magicka, why wouldn't it be just peachy for stam to use it from the Apprentice or Atronach.? Let's face it the numbers that use that for poison are far less than those that use it for poison.

AhPook_Is_Here · October 2015

I like where it is at, for reasons only my magicka NB knows.

WaTeR-aBuSeR · October 2015

The champion system was designed to have a little something for every one in each tree. If this ability was where you want it what happens in the long run is a time where you spend 100s of points in a tree and get nothing but the bonuses. This was before the cap though and I'd assume they wanted everyone to be able to get each endline unlock without feeling they spent points in something they don't use. If your all magic spending 120 points in all physical stuff would suck now wouldn't it. Plus you would feel like you weren't getting anything from the points you earned.

NinjaApacHe · October 2015

Ok, let's put it this way: when you max up your Mighty you put points in other kind of damage (talking to stamina players). If you are not doing this it means you are balancing your dps with the result of not having a great burst concentrated damage. Go around and see the builds of the various theorycrafter like Deltia or Sypherk. You will discover that the first rule for stamina is to max up Mighty, then you can put points in other passives. For Magicka users you are forced to spend 30 points in The Apprentice tree to get Spell precision, then you have to put the rest in Thaumaturge. If you have tons of champion points to spend you really do not care about this, but if you are a starter this is very important. Do you want to balance stuff? Then, as someone wrote, move Mighty to the Apprentice.