[Tanksets][Endgame] Armor Master vs. Twice Born Star

Iduyenn · September 2015

Hello everyone

I am about to craft new gear.
I know, the difference is not big from v14 to v16. And besides the min-maxing, i would like to wear Imperial Daedric style

Now i am a dedicated Tank and love to tank everything from Daily (mostly) to Trials etc.
I have every class on imperial and v16. (Yes... Imperial Sorcerer too).
But my main is the Dragonknight.

Until now, i tanked with Footsoldier and Twice Born star. That was awsome.. no problems... enough ressources nearly always at the armor and spellresistance cap.
I hate histbark... and i decided to let it slide for now... so dont recommend me this

.

I am nearly ripped appart between V16 Twice Born Star and Armor Master.

The Armor Master: If you are above 40k health, you get a good bonus of health. Healthwise It will outrun Twice born Star > 40k health.
BUT: You have to slot another abbility (on both bars... and perhaps even structured entropy. That is a lot of space... and as a DK you want your Hardend Armor anyway... Its a must.

With the Twice born Star, i have a lot of ressources and the choice to use 1 additional Mundusstone.

So here is the Dilemma... what do you think about it? Is Armor Master a must? Even, if i cap my resistances?

Would love to hear some feedback, before i begin crafting... The materials are so expensive... i dont want to craft multiple sets.

Thnx very much

----
My Setup right now:

Head: Boss set (Engine guradian or Molag Kena or...). Light armor
Shoulder: Boss set- Medium armor
Chest (heavy): Twice Born Star: Nirnhoned
Pants (heavy): Twice Born Star: Reinforced
Waist (heavy): Footsoldier
Hand (heavy): Footsoldier
Feet (heavy): Armor Master: Reinforced
Ring 1: Footsoldier
Ring 2: Footsoldier
Neckless: Footsoldier
Weapon 1: Sword- Twice Born Star- Defending
Weapon 2: Shield- Twice Born Star- Reinforced

I can get more offensive with Elfbane, Healer set.

or

I craft the Armor Master set and wear either willpower/elfbane or Healer/Warlock.

Emma_Overload · September 2015

Iduyenn wrote: »

Hello everyone

I am about to craft new gear.
I know, the difference is not big from v14 to v16. And besides the min-maxing, i would like to wear Imperial Daedric style

Now i am a dedicated Tank and love to tank everything from Daily (mostly) to Trials etc.
I have every class on imperial and v16. (Yes... Imperial Sorcerer too).
But my main is the Dragonknight.

Until now, i tanked with Footsoldier and Twice Born star. That was awsome.. no problems... enough ressources nearly always at the armor and spellresistance cap.
I hate histbark... and i decided to let it slide for now... so dont recommend me this .

I am nearly ripped appart between V16 Twice Born Star and Armor Master.

The Armor Master: If you are above 40k health, you get a good bonus of health. Healthwise It will outrun Twice born Star > 40k health.
BUT: You have to slot another abbility (on both bars... and perhaps even structured entropy. That is a lot of space... and as a DK you want your Hardend Armor anyway... Its a must.

With the Twice born Star, i have a lot of ressources and the choice to use 1 additional Mundusstone.

So here is the Dilemma... what do you think about it? Is Armor Master a must? Even, if i cap my resistances?

Would love to hear some feedback, before i begin crafting... The materials are so expensive... i dont want to craft multiple sets.

Thnx very much

----
My Setup right now:

Head: Boss set (Engine guradian or Molag Kena or...). Light armor
Shoulder: Boss set- Medium armor
Chest (heavy): Twice Born Star: Nirnhoned
Pants (heavy): Twice Born Star: Reinforced
Waist (heavy): Footsoldier
Hand (heavy): Footsoldier
Feet (heavy): Armor Master: Reinforced
Ring 1: Footsoldier
Ring 2: Footsoldier
Neckless: Footsoldier
Weapon 1: Sword- Twice Born Star- Defending
Weapon 2: Shield- Twice Born Star- Reinforced

I can get more offensive with Elfbane, Healer set.

or

I craft the Armor Master set and wear either willpower/elfbane or Healer/Warlock.

Your current set up only makes sense if the Feet are TBS, not Armor Master.

Flaminir · September 2015

I've been mulling over what to do with my tank too... she's V14, but will be 16 soon.

Thinking Engine Guardian for head/shoulders... to give extra resource regen.. especially stamina.

Then Armor master, as this will make up for the loss of resistance from dropping my normal bloodspawn.

To proc armor master I'd use Evasion.... as this buff is now part of histbark (But only while actually blocking), but by using the skill I gain the dodge chance even when not blocking which all of a sudden is now quite important.

Probably the new jewellery mini set as the stats are good, and then a decent 2 piece crafted sword & board to make up whatever stats I'm lacking in.

Iduyenn · September 2015

@Emma_Eunjung Yeha its a typo. I mean Twice Born. Thnx.

I will go with the new tristat glyphs... but apart from that... need more input ^^

Iduyenn · September 2015

Ok... i could use Medium Armor/Heavy Armor Skill instead of my Dragonarmor.
But you have to cast the spell every 12 seconds.

And for me... i have the feeling, that i lack of ressources after that.

Right now i have 30k life 30k stamina and 19k Magicka. (Not wearing Enginge Guardian atm).

Flaminir wrote: »

[...] Then Armor master, as this will make up for the loss of resistance from dropping my normal bloodspawn.

To proc armor master I'd use Evasion.... as this buff is now part of histbark (But only while actually blocking), but by using the skill I gain the dodge chance even when not blocking which all of a sudden is now quite important.

Probably the new jewellery mini set as the stats are good, and then a decent 2 piece crafted sword & board to make up whatever stats I'm lacking in.

Its just... with Twice Born, you get so much Stamina, Magicka and Health and one additional Mundus stone, wich you can take into Armor or even more health.

I would love to wear the armor Master. But how can i make up for the lost ressources? I mean... ppl expect from me to make dmg on the sideway.
Besides... i think its another playstile... you will aim for more than 40k health.
The problem is, where do i get the ressources to pull with chains, do magicka dmg etc.

This would not be a problem. I have to think about this, because some ppl here in the forums think, that permablock and "tanky" Tanks are bad players...

So now its time to give some good advise... before i have to pay a ridiculous material price...

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

I feel like twice born star is a better all around set and can give extreme flexibility, but armor master is a more tanking dedicated set. The armor skill cost is not that bad, and the 5 piece stacks with immovable or annulment better than evasion. Remember armor master is not providing a major or minor fortification buff so when you pop a armor skill like immovable it will combine the set increases, the five piece bonus resistance increase and the major you get from immovable. With all that said you should be well over 30k resistance.

Iduyenn · September 2015

So... i will have to craft both ;(

Its just... i need the engine guardian helmet... dont have it yet (destroyed it).

Colosso-monstro · September 2015

Iduyenn wrote: »

Ok... i could use Medium Armor/Heavy Armor Skill instead of my Dragonarmor.
But you have to cast the spell every 12 seconds.

And for me... i have the feeling, that i lack of ressources after that.

Right now i have 30k life 30k stamina and 19k Magicka. (Not wearing Enginge Guardian atm).

Flaminir wrote: »

[...] Then Armor master, as this will make up for the loss of resistance from dropping my normal bloodspawn.

To proc armor master I'd use Evasion.... as this buff is now part of histbark (But only while actually blocking), but by using the skill I gain the dodge chance even when not blocking which all of a sudden is now quite important.

Probably the new jewellery mini set as the stats are good, and then a decent 2 piece crafted sword & board to make up whatever stats I'm lacking in.

Its just... with Twice Born, you get so much Stamina, Magicka and Health and one additional Mundus stone, wich you can take into Armor or even more health.

I would love to wear the armor Master. But how can i make up for the lost ressources? I mean... ppl expect from me to make dmg on the sideway.
Besides... i think its another playstile... you will aim for more than 40k health.
The problem is, where do i get the ressources to pull with chains, do magicka dmg etc.

This would not be a problem. I have to think about this, because some ppl here in the forums think, that permablock and "tanky" Tanks are bad players...

So now its time to give some good advise... before i have to pay a ridiculous material price...

You have 30k health and stamina and 19k magicka?

Zsymon · September 2015

I don't think any tank has the stamina to spare to cast an Armor skill every 10 seconds just to get the extra resistance from Armor Master, because while Shuffle already costs quite a bit, Immovable is completely out of the question.

I guess you could try keeping it up with Harness Magicka instead, that costs magicka. With 19K magicka you could cast that every 10 seconds to keep the set bonuses.

actosh · September 2015

I think ill go for TWice Born Star.
Always wanted to use it, but never did. As Mundus i think ill go for Serpent and Atronarch.
Sustain is nice, since i dont block 24/7 and for pvp it offers a bit of sustain. Just a bit unsure for the Monster Sets, but ill think i stick with blood spawn like i always did. Most reliable Set for me and it procs pretty often.
Or ill take 1 Molag Kena, and 1 Bloodspawn, would be weapon dmg and stam reg. Unsure

cmackay2010rwb17_ESO · October 2015

Your all talking about casting an armor skill while wearing armor master set every 10-12 seconds like you don't know the duration of the skill increases (Unstoppable) to 20 seconds (when wearing full heavy)

hydrocynus · October 2015

Yes but the effect from armour Master only lasts for 10 of the 20 seconds so if you want it up all the time you need to hit out every 10 seconds. I don't think it should be used that way. I think it should be used in periods when you are not blocking in order to add mitigation while restoring stamina. That's why I like evasion over the others.

Bloodspawn vs Engine Guardian: If you use Armour Master set then bloodspawn is just a waste so use engine guardian to boost resources. If you use twice born star use bloodspawn as you have so much resources the engine guardian set is a waste and you can do with the extra mitigation.

usmcjdking · October 2015

My Templar tank went Engine Guardian, Enduranace and....drum roll......

ASHEN GRIP. Who gives a *** when you are breathing fire on everything?

leandro.800ub17_ESO · October 2015

I have tested many sets for tanking and a must have is footman now you can use that with seduce or host bark or twice or armor master its up to you

Winterpsy · October 2015

I considered the AM , but felt the armor skills slotted is too much of a sacrifice, not only because they'd cover two slots, but also because of the cost of most of the armor skills, devouring stamina.

I went with Black Rose myself, and tbh, and have no complains.

hydrocynus · October 2015

That's what I am taking about!

hydrocynus · October 2015

usmcjdking wrote: »

My Templar tank went Engine Guardian, Enduranace and....drum roll......

ASHEN GRIP. Who gives a *** when you are breathing fire on everything?

(Lol forgot to quote)

That's what I'm talking about!

ThatNeonZebraAgain · October 2015

To get the most out of Armor Master, you have to be willing to use an armor ability. In this case, the medium armor dodge ability is probably your best choice, and it shouldn't cost all that much given how much stamina you have and since you (I'm assuming) probably also have stamina cost reduction Champion passives. Keeping up buffs is the name of the game for tanks, especially for us NB tanks who have to keep up a minimum of 3 timed buffs (Siphoning Attacks, a Shadow ability, and Mirage, and also usually Sap Essence) while taunting, blocking, dodging, etc. If you don't want to use a costly armor ability, however, then look elsewhere for sets. I would also recommend Lamae and Whitestrake as viable options (DKs tend to prefer Whitestrake since they have a good class self-heal already).

Also, 40k health is completely overkill. Maybe when Trials become relevant again in several months that might change, but for now you can easily get by with 25k health as long as you have your physical and spell resist values near the 33.1k cap. I currently run with 28.9k health (31k with Structured Entropy slotted for tough boss fights), but will likely respec attribute points to get it down to 26-27k so I can squeeze more into other stats. As long as your healer is alive and you have decent physical/spell resist, you aren't going to die, so that extra health will never be used. So, having less health means you can put more into other resources for better sustain and damage/utility. For this reason, a unique defensive, self-proccing 5pc bonus such as the damage shield from Whitestrake set would be more useful than the extra health afforded by a bonus like 5pc Armor Master.

Flaminir · October 2015

Has anybody tried going for a slightly different approach to normal..... and using a regen set?

Because what we're basically after as tanks are two things.... resistances and regen.

I was thinking that many are now using Engine Guardian for regen... but thats RNG which I'm not so keen on as regen is a tanks lifeblood.

So flip that... and have a regen set, like Willows path for example... lots of regen for all stats, plus another 15%... and as this stacks with everything else then happy days!

Then combine with stuff like Blood Spawn for extra resistances.... good allocation of CP, V16 gear/enchants / spell resist or armor mundus....

Wondering if this may be a better bet than going down the routes of a resistance set like AM/Hist W'strakes etc. Always useful & active set of bonuses rather than stuff that has to be proc'ed/activated.

Personofsecrets · October 2015

@ZOS_RichLambert , if this player has 5 pieces of armor master and then swaps bars to another armor master sword+board, then will the lose the health buff from Armor Master for the bar swap frames which, consequentially, causes them to essentially take damage when switching bars?

I was talking about this not so long ago and will continue to bring this issue up to you. We shouldn't be losing any buffs just because we switch bars. You want tanking to become more than just holding block? If so, then don't incentivize us to do even less as tanks by staying on a single bar so that we don't lose our health by switching bars.

It is silly that we even have to talk about this issue.

Entropy, Master Sword, Dark Vigor, Shield Enchantments, any set bonuses that we are getting from our weapon and shield, and a bunch of other passive effects get this silly penalty.

Erock25 · October 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

Has anybody tried going for a slightly different approach to normal..... and using a regen set?

Because what we're basically after as tanks are two things.... resistances and regen.

I was thinking that many are now using Engine Guardian for regen... but thats RNG which I'm not so keen on as regen is a tanks lifeblood.

So flip that... and have a regen set, like Willows path for example... lots of regen for all stats, plus another 15%... and as this stacks with everything else then happy days!

Then combine with stuff like Blood Spawn for extra resistances.... good allocation of CP, V16 gear/enchants / spell resist or armor mundus....

Wondering if this may be a better bet than going down the routes of a resistance set like AM/Hist W'strakes etc. Always useful & active set of bonuses rather than stuff that has to be proc'ed/activated.

I'm using Willows Path for my Khajit Sorc Tank and it works very well IMO. It synergizes well with my specific character because Khajit has health regen and stam regen bonuses, Sorc gets health regen and stam regen bonuses from Daedric Protection passive, and Sorc takes advantage of higher magicka regen so I can use Dark Deal more often to manage my stamina if I end up blocking too much and I also rely on a 10k Hardened Ward to soak up some damage and Boundless Storm for the buffs.

usmcjdking · October 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

Has anybody tried going for a slightly different approach to normal..... and using a regen set?

Because what we're basically after as tanks are two things.... resistances and regen.

I was thinking that many are now using Engine Guardian for regen... but thats RNG which I'm not so keen on as regen is a tanks lifeblood.

So flip that... and have a regen set, like Willows path for example... lots of regen for all stats, plus another 15%... and as this stacks with everything else then happy days!

Then combine with stuff like Blood Spawn for extra resistances.... good allocation of CP, V16 gear/enchants / spell resist or armor mundus....

Wondering if this may be a better bet than going down the routes of a resistance set like AM/Hist W'strakes etc. Always useful & active set of bonuses rather than stuff that has to be proc'ed/activated.

I used to rock Orgnum's before going full YOLO V16 Ashen Grip.

When Orgnum's activated my base regen would spike up to 3100 and get further amplified by Radiant Aura. Very powerful set, especially in PVP. Not advised with new one shot mechanics though.

VoiDGhOs7 · October 2015

I'm using 5 pieces AM combined with 2x Bloodspawn,3x Endurance and 2x Willpower and its working pretty good.The SR is 33.5k and AR is 30.5k with Bloodspawn proc if I also slot and use any armor ability SR/AR go can reach up to 39k and 37k fully buffed.

My stats stats are 21.5k Mag/28k Health/23.5k Stam using the Tower mundus stone and I have 265 CP.

I wasn't sure at start if I should go for AM or Histbark but since no more perma block (unless you're a NB using Siphoning Attacks+Caltrops) it's kinda pointless using Histbark if stamina doesnt regen.

My advice is if you want to do a bit more dmg as tank AM is not for you because the set is designed for pure tank specs,but you can use the 2 pieces monster sets as Nerien'eth or Valkyn(not as good as used to be) do to some dmg.
Engine guardian is the best in slot for sustain by using it youll probably wont have any resource issues.

In the end is up to you which gear you're going to use and youll need to tweak your stats here and there to balance youre stats.