Dude, I've been in several PvP dueling guilds, and I can't think of anyone that can beat me today. I'm a Nord Nightblade.

Sorry if I'm coming off as cocky (I know it definitely sounds like it), but I want to clarify to you that Nords do not suck. As a Nord I can dish out a great deal of damage while at the same time be a pain in the rear to kill.

Salmonoid wrote: »

Nikkor wrote: »

the 6 percent damage mitigation is ok.

Um, that's the strongest Tanking passive in the game man. Nords OP tanks.

The 6% damage mitigation for a tank is useless since they so easily obtain the max cap at 50% without it. I have said this several times and people still comment on here saying Nord make the best tanks. It is simply not true.

Sure it's good for PvP if you're not build as a tank, but you won't convince me we're better off than races rocking 10% rescource pools or some other great ***.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I'm still baffled why Nord is bad. I play a Nord on a couple of characters and I'm familiar with the trait. I can recall when they were garbage, but they are not any longer. How can you possibly say 6% damage reduction (BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE) and 9% Max Health is bad? Unlike an Imperial which is relying upon his stamina pool to stay alive a little longer, the Nord just sucks it up like a champ. The Nord takes a hammer to the face and laughs it off with a cask full of mead, because that's how they roll. Why do I say the Nord is probably alright? The answer is that a Nord by merit of being so tanky can keep laying down aggressive pressure without having to fire off as many defensive powers. In my comparison of Nord vs. Imperial I'd like to also point out that the 30% bonus to health regen is always on, and is significantly more powerful than Red Diamond, even if both parties are in melee.

Look I realize you want the Nord to be a more aggressive race, but that's not really what they are. They're a tanking race, just like Argonians. The reason I think Nord is still good, even on a DPS character at least in a pvp environment is that 6% damage reduction is hard to not pay attention to, since that is over and above the normal SR/Armor based damage reduction. Nords are Tanky. Tanks need help, if that's your concern I agree with you. The Imperial City patch was a big kick in the teeth to TRUE TANKS. This game really needs to consider making what I would consider a proper Warrior build a little better, and I iterate this in the following discussion:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2332392#Comment_2332392

Anyway, I'm not knocking your concerns, I just feel Argonians and Khajiit need love before any other race.

6% damage reduction won't matter a whole lot in the sense you're saying it will, but ofc it makes a difference.

I don't really want them to be an agressive race, I just want them to be better than they currently are, because I don't think they're on par. If that means buffing them to be better tanks then changes towards that.

I am not going to comment on Khajiit but Argonians definately need some love aswell.

Nikkor wrote: »

I think everyone can agree there are a few classes that have gotten the short end of the stick. I think all races can do just fine but.

it pains me to look at an imperial, wood elf, or dark elf passives next to my Nord DPS

If I want to tank I'm good to go kind of. The 9 percent health is good. the 6 percent damage mitigation is ok. the health recovery is ok.

But why for the life of me is there not some sort of attacking passive for the mighty nord? Lets say they don't get the max stamina or health or boosted recovery.

they could easily have a 3 and 5 percent weapon damage bonus that would make sense

I like my nord hard2kill !

Zinaroth wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Negative.

An Orc would make a decent alternative, but if the orc and nords were built identical and exchanged attacks evenly the nord would win from survivability alone; making the nord a better choice.

Imperial; in PvE they're about on par, in PvP the Nord wins. Sure you have slightly more health and a decent amount more stamina but the damage mitigation actually balance one another out. However where the Nord wins is with the Health Regeneration. With the nerfs to heals and damage in Cyrodill health regen has actually become quite powerful, and because of this Nord wins in PvP, in PvE they're even.

Redguard; your resource management would be excellent; however you'll be a glass cannon unless you dedicated a decent amount of attribute points or glyphs into health and damage mitigation; which in the end makes them about the same; however it's a lot more difficult increasing your physical resistance and spell resistance by 3900, than it is for a nord to increase their stamina by 10%.

So you see, a Nord is an excellent choice for any circumstance. All you need to worry about is your stamina resource, but you'll have the damage mitigation of a tank while wearing the armor of a stamina DPS.

By the way, my cousin is an excellent player as well; and he's an Imperial. However as soon as a race change is available; he's going Nord.

The Nord would never be on par with an Imperial in PvE since they Imperial has a bigger stamina pool. They would be better stamina DPS and better tanks.

Like I said earlier I can see how Nords make decent choises in PvP, but this game isn't only PvP.

I am looking at Nord in PvE and thinking; what do I have that makes my class excel?
And the answer is; nothing really.

As a DPS I don't need to stack defenses, but need to compete, and as a Nord I have a smaller rescource pool. As a tank I would be better off with a bigger rescource pool aswell.

Also: You can't say "Negative" when I tell you a Nord has nothing to do with your damage output, that is pretty obvious.

Damage isn't the only important factor with having a powerful character. You need good damage output, resource management, and survivability. Nords have the best survivability, Bosmer have the best resource management, Orcs have the best damage output for melee users.

Essentially what it comes down to is whatever your race does well in; just focus on the other aspects. In the end I've been told I'm one of the best DPSer people have seen (These are not my words), and I'm really good at 1vX in PvP. Granted this is heavily dependent on player skill and a solid build, but me being a Nord has definitely not gimped me in any way.

Zinaroth wrote: »

Salmonoid wrote: »

Nikkor wrote: »

the 6 percent damage mitigation is ok.

Um, that's the strongest Tanking passive in the game man. Nords OP tanks.

The 6% damage mitigation for a tank is useless since they so easily obtain the max cap at 50% without it. I have said this several times and people still comment on here saying Nord make the best tanks. It is simply not true.

Sure it's good for PvP if you're not build as a tank, but you won't convince me we're better off than races rocking 10% rescource pools or some other great ***.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I'm still baffled why Nord is bad. I play a Nord on a couple of characters and I'm familiar with the trait. I can recall when they were garbage, but they are not any longer. How can you possibly say 6% damage reduction (BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE) and 9% Max Health is bad? Unlike an Imperial which is relying upon his stamina pool to stay alive a little longer, the Nord just sucks it up like a champ. The Nord takes a hammer to the face and laughs it off with a cask full of mead, because that's how they roll. Why do I say the Nord is probably alright? The answer is that a Nord by merit of being so tanky can keep laying down aggressive pressure without having to fire off as many defensive powers. In my comparison of Nord vs. Imperial I'd like to also point out that the 30% bonus to health regen is always on, and is significantly more powerful than Red Diamond, even if both parties are in melee.

Look I realize you want the Nord to be a more aggressive race, but that's not really what they are. They're a tanking race, just like Argonians. The reason I think Nord is still good, even on a DPS character at least in a pvp environment is that 6% damage reduction is hard to not pay attention to, since that is over and above the normal SR/Armor based damage reduction. Nords are Tanky. Tanks need help, if that's your concern I agree with you. The Imperial City patch was a big kick in the teeth to TRUE TANKS. This game really needs to consider making what I would consider a proper Warrior build a little better, and I iterate this in the following discussion:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2332392#Comment_2332392

Anyway, I'm not knocking your concerns, I just feel Argonians and Khajiit need love before any other race.

6% damage reduction won't matter a whole lot in the sense you're saying it will, but ofc it makes a difference.

I don't really want them to be an agressive race, I just want them to be better than they currently are, because I don't think they're on par. If that means buffing them to be better tanks then changes towards that.

I am not going to comment on Khajiit but Argonians definately need some love aswell.

I think this is why you're struggling so much to understand. You can achieve a maximum of 50% damage mitigation from armor/spell resist, but you can certainly mitigate more than 50% in total. Our good long-time exploiting friend that's played a sorc on NA until the IC patch has already proven that. Mist form alone mitigates 75% dmg, and from your wording it seems you think you can only ever achieve 50% mitigation from all sources. My understanding is that the nord racial will stack on top of the 50% dmg mitigation cap you can achieve solely from armor and spell resist, just like champion passives, Cyrodiils light, mist form, undeath, empowering sweep, nova, veil, remembrance, etc.

That's why people keep telling you it's good for tanking. Even if somehow it gets factored into the 50% that comes from your gear alone, that will free a nord up to use divine and infused traits rather than nirn/reinforced to hit the max armor and spell resist caps.

Hodor huh?

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I know talk is cheap so here's some evidence to back up my claims

<YOUTUBE VIDEOS>

Trust me man, being a Nord is not a handicap

I appreciate you being a really good PvPers and I appreciate your points.
These are ALL PvP scenarios though.
I don't agree Nords have the best survivability because it is so much more than just health and mitigating damage.
My experience and knowledge tells me more rescources provides more survivability, more so in PvP than in PvE.

Zheg wrote: »

I think this is why you're struggling so much to understand. You can achieve a maximum of 50% damage mitigation from armor/spell resist, but you can certainly mitigate more than 50% in total. Our good long-time exploiting friend that's played a sorc on NA until the IC patch has already proven that. Mist form alone mitigates 75% dmg, and from your wording it seems you think you can only ever achieve 50% mitigation from all sources. My understanding is that the nord racial will stack on top of the 50% dmg mitigation cap you can achieve solely from armor and spell resist, just like champion passives, Cyrodiils light, mist form, undeath, empowering sweep, nova, veil, remembrance, etc.

That's why people keep telling you it's good for tanking. Even if somehow it gets factored into the 50% that comes from your gear alone, that will free a nord up to use divine and infused traits rather than nirn/reinforced to hit the max armor and spell resist caps.

Hodor huh?

50% damage mitigation from statistics, passives, racials, whatever.
On top of that comes particular skills, like Mist Form, Remembrance, Nova, Veil etc.

Nord racial will not stack on top of the achieveable cap.
This has been tested.

So Hodor, yeah.
Also I am not struggling to understand anything.

Please don't condescend me, that is out of place.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO wrote: »

They should do away with racial passives and instead have a passive pool to pick from.

I agree completely

Khajiit did not get racial meow passive this Makes Khajiit angry. Khajiit will shred your sofas,Chew your cables. Break all your nice things in house and plot how to kill you in your sleep. The only solution is to give Khajiit Meow Emote NOW !!! Nords get mead and snow in game.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

@Zheg made my point quite well. EVERYONE has to build for some mitigation in this game. The great thing about Nord is you have a huge chunk of mitigation built in, which means you can put more investment from sets, gear champion etc toward aggressive builds if that's your desire. It means you don't need to build in as much mitigation as someone who is an altmer, for example.

DPSers in PvE doesn't need to build for mitigation past making sure they have 17k health, neither do healers. Only tanks need to build for defense, and the racial doesn't stack past the 50% cap which is easily achieved by tanks.

xaraan wrote: »

I don't think every race needs to have the same bonuses for dps or defense

I agree.

xaraan wrote: »

with the health bonus, you can afford to put more points into magicka or stamina and still get a decent amount of health, which can give you more dps)

This is true but any race with a stamina/magicka passive will always be able to achieve more DPS theoretically.

xaraan wrote: »

Damage mitigation is useful in any build

Not for min/maxing in PvE if you're a DPS or Healer, atleast not from racials.

xaraan wrote: »

you do more dps alive than dead

That is given but that doesn't mean that 6% damage reduction is as good as another passive because it is defense you don't need in high end competetive PvE.

xaraan wrote: »

Also, racial bonuses don't count to caps, so the mitigation will always be useful, even if you are 'capped' with gear.

This is not true. It has been tested and the 6% reduction does not help past the cap.

xaraan wrote: »

Health regen isn't going to replace healing, but can make a bigger difference than some think and can be worth building toward in the right builds.

Sure but those builds have no place and are not needed for competetive high end PvE.

xaraan wrote: »

But tbh, they def don't need a weapon bonus passive (especially with stamina/weapon builds already out of balance).

Agree that they don't need more offense, not going to comment on stamina builds in general.

It's pretty obvious ZOS wanted Nord to be the sturdiest of the races, I am fine with that. But then they should give them some racial passives that actually accomplishes that in a better way than those we have now. That is all I am saying. Currently the Nord racials does not make you a sturdier tank if you're builds right, and for DPSers and Healers it's an unwanted bonus compared to so many other things.

I would be pretty happy if Nords made the best tanks based on their racials, but that is not necisarily the case atm, sadly.

Zheg wrote: »

As I said in my previous post, even if it gets factored into the 50%, that allows a nord tank to reach 50% and still run a light armor piece or 2 and get all of the passives that come from it. Wearing gold 7/7 heavy, with major and minor resist buffs still leave plenty of room to hit the cap. Other races have to invest into more mitigation, nords can reach 44% and then focus resources/regen. What's so difficult to understand?

7/7 gold heavy armor with major and minor resist buffs will leave you over the cap, especially if you run tank specific gear sets.

I understand where you're coming from. But from a theoretical standpoint it is not on par with other racials beneficial for tanking.

If ZOS truely wants the Nord to be the "tanky" race then they should excel at it, and not compete with other races who are clearly aimed more at DPS. Those races can pull off tanking just as well easily, while at the same time be able to min/max as magicka or stamina DPS, or healer if they're Templars.

lol give them a damage bonus on top of max health, a whopping 30% health regen in combat, damage mitigation and watch everyone roll a Nord. I'd drop my Imperial in a heart beat.