Time to talk about vamp penalties...again...

LegacyDM · October 2015

Seriously though. The penalties for being a vampire are still way to harsh for the reward.

1. Stages 2-4. Your health regenerates a whopping 25,50,75% slower! Although, your Vampirism abilities cost 20,40,60% less health to cast. This is fairly dumb considering We only get 2 skills. Drain essence and mist form. Really? We all know the problems with mist form, and drain essence is meh. Hardly anyone uses this skill cause it's a 3 sec channel that locks you in place. So, I gotta be bogged down with feeding every 30 min to stay in stage 1 for this crap? Might as well just remove the stage penalties. Most people who use mist form aren't hurting for resources to the point they need to be in stages 2-4. These skills don't justify the penalties.

2. Extra fighters guild and fire damage. 25% fire damage and fighter guild undead damage for what? Just because I can sneak a little faster? I can go in stealth a tiny bit faster at night? How is this valuable in pvp or pve? With all the counters to sneak this is way over the top. Not to mention trying to do a trial as a vamp is just painful and I want to whack my head against the wall. In pvp people are wrecking vamps with dawn beaker of smiling, camo hunter, silver bolts, and fire skills. also I have to give up slots for fire resistance?

3. Vampire slot for extra regen. Really? The whole reason to take vamp is for regen and now I have to give up a slot for an extra whopping 10% regen? Whoppie.

I'm not sure what you are thinking Zos but these penalties are whacked for what we get. Maybe if we had the speed boosts fom days of old. I don't want to point out Wherewolf and am in no way calling for a nerf but they get a ton more skills and get crazy stamina regen passive. The new meta is to be a stamina Wherewolf build. Either tone down the vamp penalties or give us something meaningful to actually compensate for such harsh penalties.

So really it comes down to harsh penalties for lackluster skills, lackluster sneak bonus, and lackluster regens that werewolves get passively. Only good skill we get is an ultimate but I have to give up the mighty meteor. The game has come a long way since launch and the penalties may have sounded good back then under a different meta. Times have changed and it's time to seriously revamp the vamp.

Discuss

Prabooo · October 2015

agreed, cheers (drinks blood from a cup)

SleepyTroll · October 2015

Are you serious the 25% damage from fire is hardly noticeable now.
"The whole reason to take vamp is for regen and now I have to give up a slot for an extra whopping 10% regen? Whoppie."
This is why its like that now....
there's even freaking Vampire tanks now.

Gerardopg · October 2015

The biggest issue I see is that a werewolf can slot and ultimate and get all the regen, ok yeah you have to sacrifice and ultimate but if you don't want to slot the ultimate you take it out and you don't have any problem yeah you lose the regen but you don't have any down side, as a vampire if you take out an ability you still have all the downsides less health recovery, extra fire damage, extra fighters guild damage and everything in exchange for nothing really just go faster when you can sneak, it would be very cool that we have the option like the werewolf we take out the ability and loss the passives but we loss the penalties to

PhatGrimReaper · October 2015

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

1. Stages 2-4. Your health regenerates a whopping 25,50,75% slower! Although, your Vampirism abilities cost 20,40,60% less health to cast.

20,40,60%..... is it still that high on console? It's only like 21/24% reduction on PC and it's still worth it.

What gets me is that the fire damage & health regen thing is always active, but the Werewolves weakness is only in Werewolf form, yet both have to have an ability slotted to receive the regen buff.

Zsymon · October 2015

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

What gets me is that the fire damage & health regen thing is always active, but the Werewolves weakness is only in Werewolf form, yet both have to have an ability slotted to receive the regen buff.

Except Werewolves get no passives at all without an ultimate slotted, and vampires get additional passives beside the regen, that are active always. I.e. increased damage resistance and increased stealth speed.

Especially since the increased damage resistance stacks on top of Battle Spirit.

Jura23 · October 2015

I play a vampire since I entered Reaper!s March and I don't feel like I need a buff in this area. Only fix the mist, that would be nice. The rest you just gotta deal with it. My health regen is almost nonexistent, so I say whatever and I focus on other stats.

If you OP feel like it's not worth being a vampire, just don't be.

bowmanz607 · October 2015

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Seriously though. The penalties for being a vampire are still way to harsh for the reward.

1. Stages 2-4. Your health regenerates a whopping 25,50,75% slower! Although, your Vampirism abilities cost 20,40,60% less health to cast. This is fairly dumb considering We only get 2 skills. Drain essence and mist form. Really? We all know the problems with mist form, and drain essence is meh. Hardly anyone uses this skill cause it's a 3 sec channel that locks you in place. So, I gotta be bogged down with feeding every 30 min to stay in stage 1 for this crap? Might as well just remove the stage penalties. Most people who use mist form aren't hurting for resources to the point they need to be in stages 2-4. These skills don't justify the penalties.

2. Extra fighters guild and fire damage. 25% fire damage and fighter guild undead damage for what? Just because I can sneak a little faster? I can go in stealth a tiny bit faster at night? How is this valuable in pvp or pve? With all the counters to sneak this is way over the top. Not to mention trying to do a trial as a vamp is just painful and I want to whack my head against the wall. In pvp people are wrecking vamps with dawn beaker of smiling, camo hunter, silver bolts, and fire skills. also I have to give up slots for fire resistance?

3. Vampire slot for extra regen. Really? The whole reason to take vamp is for regen and now I have to give up a slot for an extra whopping 10% regen? Whoppie.

I'm not sure what you are thinking Zos but these penalties are whacked for what we get. Maybe if we had the speed boosts fom days of old. I don't want to point out Wherewolf and am in no way calling for a nerf but they get a ton more skills and get crazy stamina regen passive. The new meta is to be a stamina Wherewolf build. Either tone down the vamp penalties or give us something meaningful to actually compensate for such harsh penalties.

So really it comes down to harsh penalties for lackluster skills, lackluster sneak bonus, and lackluster regens that werewolves get passively. Only good skill we get is an ultimate but I have to give up the mighty meteor. The game has come a long way since launch and the penalties may have sounded good back then under a different meta. Times have changed and it's time to seriously revamp the vamp.

Discuss

I disagree and think it is perfect. The 25% damage to fire makes sense. One because historically and lore wise vampires are weak against fire. This is true about vampires across different lore in general. Also, you can mitigate that damage with champ points and glyphs.

Sure you loose health regen, but health regen is not really a good stat anyway. Also, you really trade it off for the increased damage mitigation under 50% health. Not to mention the. Umber of HoT you can use as a substitute for health recovery.

Ofcourse f8ght Era guild abilites hurt vamps. Not only does the fighters guild have a long history of fighting vamps which would lead to the development 9f skills to f8ght them, but let's be real...fighters guild abilites are really the only solid counter to vampiers. Ppl only slot them so much now because of ic. Also, because so many ppl want to be vamps.

As for the slotting an ability thing. Yes that makes since. One most ppl who are vamps already use at least on skill. This is usually the ultimate or mist. So you only really need to slot one of those abilities on your front bar. Since yoh will be on that bar for 90% 9f a fight, you only need that buff on your main bar. Without slotting the abilities you still get the sneak buff and the damage reduction buff, so it is not like you get nothing for a vamp. It simply just gives added incentive to use the vamp skills. Let's be honest bat swarm is pretty legit anyway. You say a whopping 10% but that can be a lot. As a stam build I have 2400 stam recovery. So that means that about 200 of that is from being a vamp. That gives me more stam regen then a glyph or the mundus stone. Not to mention my magika recovery is at 1300 so about 125 of that is from vamp passive. Those are not trivial stats and once stacked with champ points and racial passives gives a strong boost to recovery.

You seem to be making the passives seem trivial, but they are not. You cant just be a vamp with no draw backs. That was the issue with WW.

Alucardo · October 2015

So basically what you're saying is you want to be OP as balls with little to no downsides? I see. You do realise Vampirism is a choice and you can cure it at any time if you don't like the disadvantages that come with the amazing bats and passives you're receiving?

Birdovic · October 2015

I'm a vampire since last year June and I can tell you it was hard at the beginning, but even back then I managed trials as vampire and did DSA even without having the chance of putting CP into Fire Resistance and without using fire res glyphs.

Now with only 25% fire dmg instead of 40% and the 50% battle spirit instead 20% I barely notice this weakness anymore at all, same as the health regen. I never even looked at this stat, it was never useful and I never missed it, maybe because I always been vamp and got used to it I don't know.

You should center your build around vampirism and its abilities to make best use of it, and put CP to ease those (almost nonexistent) downsides, else you still can cure it.

What I still consider dangerous is silver bolt, dawnbreaker is not much of an issue either.

Comparing WW to Vampire: I think single vampires are more dangerous than a WW without his "Pack", therefore I think it's okay when a vampire gets this "permanent downside" while WW only gets it while transformed(which is limited in time, too!), as its most effective as group/pack and designed for group play (just look at the morphs).

Lord-Otto · October 2015

I agree with Josh that vampires right now are not worth it (still holding onto my vamps because of GLOWING RED EYEZ!!!).
Here's my take:

1. Fire weakness
The decrease in fire weakness was absolutely necessary. There was no valid reason to begin with for it being that high. Maybe that was justified way back in the beginning days, but not anymore. 40% could never be mitigated fully and lead to frequent oneshots by bosses in PvE, frequent sustained damage from certain PvP builds and occasional oneshots from Meteors and Coldharbour artillery. No matter how powerful you are, unless you can rise from the grave, that power matters little if you get oneshot right away.
I feel the 25% weakness is almost acceptable now. You barely get oneshot by bosses (or incredibly powerful mob abilities), and I figure an abundancy of champion points helps mitigating even that. CH artillery has been fixed (thank god!) and more sustained damage from fire builds in the current meta is acceptable. Really, fire magicka DKs have become rather rare, it's acceptable. I still wish there was a separation or extra perk for fire resistance in the champion point trees. Because as my elemental resistance climbs, I know it does the same for non-vamps, so when I confront a non-vamp with fire, that one WILL hit harder. CPs really only mitigate PvE somewhat. Can't afford to lose sustain or burst on a jewelry glyph for 5% less specialized damage, not worth it.
A weakness stays a weakness, no matter how much you mitigate. So, we need a strength to make it worth it, right? And where is that strength? I'll get to this point in part 3.

2. Fighters Guild
And here is the big problem!
There is no mitigating this weakness. People could slot FG abilities, especially the Dawnbreaker, and hit you very hard. But actually, they don't have to. Slayer gives you a permanent 10% bonus on vamps, not even considering the additional ulti gain. For what reason again can you hit me 10% harder? For the mist form which is outshined by streak and cloak and helpless against roots/snares? Or the awesome drain which doesn't do damage, doesn't heal and surely doesn't give you maneuverability? If we got an additional bar just for vampire abilities, I would be fine with that. Like the sorc's Overload: pop Bat Swarm (without ulti cost), gain access to your three vamp skills, use 'em. Using bats cancels that bar, obviously. But right now? No space for those abilities. Devouring Swarm in PvE, yes. Helps with resurrecting people. But I could do without it. My ulti is better spent on class ultimates. If Bat Swarm was significantly cheaper, much like Incapacitating Strike, then okay. But right now, I rather save ulti for Meteor or Overload/Atronach (DK and Sorc, respectively).
Honestly, we only get faster sneak for this tremendous weakness. And that does not help in a fight AT ALL! As it stands, vampires get a significant short end of the stick here. No question.

3. Regeneration
So, the only thing that could help define our playstyles is the additional regen we get from the passives. But let's look at health first.
We get significantly less health regen. Feeding helps, but that is impossible in PvP. Effectively, being a vamp is a disadvantage for tanks in PvE. A hassle, at least. In PvP, I think the additional resistance at low health helps with executions and is definitely compensating for the health regen loss. You get to execute status faster, but are also more resistant to it, it's okay. Balanced, IMO.
But, we still need a strength for our fire weakness, right? Now, 10% more regen on stamina and magicka used to be a nice deal... until ZOS had the great idea to force us into slotting TWO vamp abilities. So, let me get this straight: we are supposed to pay with two slots, 25% more fire weakness and Fighters Guild suspectibility for 10% more regen? And it's not even 10%, as the calculation is odd. It's more like 7%. AND one of those is probably neglectable or is anyone actually running a magicka/stamina hybrid?
I see no reason for this, it's arbitrary. As everyone knows, we always need to deal with our weaknesses, but are not always granted our strengths. And if we want our strengths, how ever slight they are, we shall pay two slots for them. That is ridiculous! We can live and afford and deal with the two points above (and already are at a disadvantage there), but we can't magically pull out two slots off our handbags. I gain 60 points of magicka regen, for example. That just is NOTHING! For all I have to pay for it, it is just unacceptable. I'm WAY better off ignoring Supernatural Recovery and using my slots on useful abilities.

Conclusion
So why am I a vampire? We look cool. Team Edaward. Is it objectively worth it? Nope. Does being a vampire interestingly affect my playstyle? Nope. Just makes me weaker, that's it. I'm not a bat of prey, I don't sneak up on beautiful young elven throats, I don't darken the sky or strike at night. I just have pale skin and glowing eyes. So far, being a vampire is absolutely not what ZOS intended, an interesting, specialized way of playing. It needs to be fixed.

caperon · October 2015

I would like to know the % of vampires in the game. Just looking cyrodiil and the plague they are tells me that vampirism weakness are a JOKE compared to the benefits. Fire weakness should have stayed at 40%, it didn't stop anyone to be vampire, with 25% I'm thinking (tank) in go vampire too.

Chibs · October 2015

You vampires are mad because you have penalties. The undeath passive is beast the Ultimate is pretty good too and mist form is great as well. To have those good abilities there must be penalties. Don't be mad because being a vampire isn't a purely bonus thing.

Chrlynsch · October 2015

Vampire should probably have some new skills added, and current skills fixed

1: Mist is now immune to snares & roots

2: Drains heal is horrible, use it in pvp I dare you... increase heal by 300% based on enemy health bar more health the enemy has the greater heal you get back. (I drink your milkshake)

3: Create an illusion

4.

5. Summon gargoyle
-gargoyle heals you for % damage done
-gargoyle scales: cover your skin in stone increased spell resistance and Armor

FriedEggSandwich · October 2015

Invis-bats is probably the best pvp ultimate in the game. Who cares about health regen in combat when everyone in cyro spams rapid regen, healing springs, vigor? The only thing that makes me weary about being a vamp is the increased fire damage and undaunted passives, but sorcs have shields so this probably doesn't even affect them. Vamps have it good in pvp atm.

Lord-Otto · October 2015

We vampires are mad because we have no bonuses. Under the current circumstances, I would be happy with vampirism doing those:
1. make your skin pale and eyes glowing
2. nothing
Would be way better. You sure haven't been onshot by CH ballistaes/trebuchets over and over again, I can tell. The ultimate is good, but there are way better ones, period. Mist Form won't save you and you surely are not causing damage with it. Undeath is good, but we pay with health regen and 10% more damage taken.

As to why we see many vamps in PvP, I can't say precisely. A bit of coolness factor, a bit of misinformation and sticking to the old ways, a bit of clever use of the abilities (nightblade + Clouding Swarm), and whatnot. Numbers would be interesting for sure.

bowmanz607 · October 2015

Chibs wrote: »

You vampires are mad because you have penalties. The undeath passive is beast the Ultimate is pretty good too and mist form is great as well. To have those good abilities there must be penalties. Don't be mad because being a vampire isn't a purely bonus thing.

I am a vamp and think where vampires sit right now is a great balance. i think most decent players feel the same way. imo.

jasonburkart90 · October 2015

I just recently switched back to vamp and love it especially clouding swarm in pvp. I just wish they would change the undead passive back to the when health is below 50% increase damage mitigation up to 50% dependent on health.

a.skelton92 · October 2015

I got to admit, I hated them at first but I am tempted to make a vampire now. Since I watched 'Dracula Untold' last night, I really want to make one. Kind of like a vampire lord type thing. A DK reflective scales and dragon leap etc look more like massive bat wings to me. Would be awesome! Flying about the battle field one second and surrounded by bats the next.. Ahh, yes. That'd be the dream for sure..Too bad I do not have a clue how to become one..

Warhammer universe vampire count: Vlad von Carstein, in red armour etc would be sick!! Sorry I know this does not add anything to the discussion but I just may do it!

Alucardo · October 2015

Just so you know, I had camo hunter proc on a vamp sorc with shield breaker today after a few silver leashes. He went from 30% health to a blue burning pile of dust on the ground.
You know what? I LIKED IT.

caperon · October 2015

Lord-Otto wrote: »

As to why we see many vamps in PvP, I can't say precisely. A bit of coolness factor, a bit of misinformation and sticking to the old ways, a bit of clever use of the abilities (nightblade + Clouding Swarm), and whatnot. Numbers would be interesting for sure.

I think it's easier. Vampires are *** OP for PVP. Improved sneaking speed? OP. More regen? OP Bats? OP. 33% extra mitigation when low life? OP

25% increased fire damage? JOKE when you have CP system, enchantments, battle spirit. No health regen? JOKE penalty for a JOKE stat. Be affected by fighters guild skills? The only real downside, but requires your enemy use that skills in a game were you have 10 slots.

No way you are 1 shoted by a fire trebuchet nowdays. Im not vampire, i sit at 25k life and 15k spell resist and when im hit i have more than 10k life left to have plenty of time to purgue or heal. But if you pretend go around with 20k life in cyro, no spell resist, not have any healing or puegue skill, and not use red CP in elemental resistances, then its another history.

LBxFinalDeath · October 2015

Passively?

Werewolves are FORCED to use the Ultimate on both bars if we want the regen.

So we have an insanely high costing ultimate and we are forced to use it if we want the stam buff.

At least Vampires have the get out of jail free card known as elusive mist which they can slot for their regen buffs without taking up an ultimate slot.

Werewolf has it MUCH worse than Vampires imo, they need to cut the Ult cost down to 150 or something....like 200 for normal werewolf and 150 or 100 for Pack Leader/Berserker morph

You get so many more positives for being a Vampire than a WW, the only good thing is WW's don't take more damage from anything 24/7 but thats not that much of a big deal anymore due to the fire dmg to vampires nerf.

So yeah....you guys become tanks when lower than 33% HP, you get stam AND magicka regen with the ability to slot useful skills (dat mist doe) that don't take up an ultimate slot while Werewolfies HAVE to slot the high cost ultimate that most of the time won't be usable when you actually need it...unless you go out of your way to get it.

Werewolves also only have one viable role in PvP which typically forces group play (trying to do anything other than tank while beating the enemy down as quickly as possible ends badly since you become public enemy number 1 always when you transform, you know those 30 reds and yellows that were fighting each other? Yeah they are gonna make a truce and go after you a solo player..while Vampires can quite literally fit any role with little difficulty.)

Jura23 · October 2015

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Passively?

Werewolves are FORCED to use the Ultimate on both bars if we want the regen.

So we have an insanely high costing ultimate and we are forced to use it if we want the stam buff.

At least Vampires have the get out of jail free card known as elusive mist which they can slot for their regen buffs without taking up an ultimate slot.

Werewolf has it MUCH worse than Vampires imo, they need to cut the Ult cost down to 150 or something....like 200 for normal werewolf and 150 or 100 for Pack Leader/Berserker morph

You get so many more positives for being a Vampire than a WW, the only good thing is WW's don't take more damage from anything 24/7 but thats not that much of a big deal anymore due to the fire dmg to vampires nerf.

So yeah....you guys become tanks when lower than 33% HP, you get stam AND magicka regen with the ability to slot useful skills (dat mist doe) that don't take up an ultimate slot while Werewolfies HAVE to slot the high cost ultimate that most of the time won't be usable when you actually need it...unless you go out of your way to get it.

Werewolves also only have one viable role in PvP which typically forces group play (trying to do anything other than tank while beating the enemy down as quickly as possible ends badly since you become public enemy number 1 always when you transform, you know those 30 reds and yellows that were fighting each other? Yeah they are gonna make a truce and go after you a solo player..while Vampires can quite literally fit any role with little difficulty.)

I was always wondering why ppl complain about having to slot the ww ultimate. Isn't transforming to monster the point of being a werewolf?

LBxFinalDeath · October 2015

Its less "we don't wanna go werewolf" and more... "we want to go werewolf but we die of old age waiting for the ultimate to build"

If that makes sense.

It just annoys me that Vampires have so many good things going for them and yet they still think they have it worse off than werewolves when they have useful skills they can slot for magicka and stamina regen opposed to having to use a high cost ultimate for just stamina regen.

Lord-Otto · October 2015

caperon wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

As to why we see many vamps in PvP, I can't say precisely. A bit of coolness factor, a bit of misinformation and sticking to the old ways, a bit of clever use of the abilities (nightblade + Clouding Swarm), and whatnot. Numbers would be interesting for sure.

I think it's easier. Vampires are *** OP for PVP. Improved sneaking speed? OP. More regen? OP Bats? OP. 33% extra mitigation when low life? OP

25% increased fire damage? JOKE when you have CP system, enchantments, battle spirit. No health regen? JOKE penalty for a JOKE stat. Be affected by fighters guild skills? The only real downside, but requires your enemy use that skills in a game were you have 10 slots.

No way you are 1 shoted by a fire trebuchet nowdays. Im not vampire, i sit at 25k life and 15k spell resist and when im hit i have more than 10k life left to have plenty of time to purgue or heal. But if you pretend go around with 20k life in cyro, no spell resist, not have any healing or puegue skill, and not use red CP in elemental resistances, then its another history.

I like how you dodged everything I said earlier... x'D
Alright, especially for you, my special little cookie:

Sneaking speed is not OP. When's the last time you dealt more damage because you could sneak faster into that crwod of enemies? xD
60 points more regen in my primary stat. OP as hell. [/sarcasm]
Bats. Discussable. It never kills, as it's a DoT. Healing has been cut. Clouding? I was under the same impression, until I got repeatedly telport striked by Nightblades over and over again while I had it active. OP, my wonderfully formed backside! xD
Extra mitigation is good, yes. For zero health regeneration? Kinda balanced here. Even with healers around, some free health periodically surely is a great thing.

CPs affect your enemy as well. 10% more resistance to elements for my vamp sorc against a non-vamp DK with same CP means that I will get hit around 15% harder by my enemy, wheras he/she will be hit 10 lighter. Difference stays at 25% percent. CP mitigation is situational.
And do you even know how many enchants with the corresponding increase in sustain/burst you had to sacrifice for a situational mitigation? More than you actually could!
No, I don't get onshot anymore. But it happened frequently pre-Imp, with the 40% weakness.

LBxFinalDeath · October 2015

I don't see why Vampires are the only ones with the sneaking speed buff tbh, you'd think werewolves would get it since "Ultimate Hunters"

But....ya' know oh well...can't have anything outside of a high cost ultimate and things that only work when transformed while everything else you have doesn't work.

Still though Vampires have it worse off....right?

Jura23 · October 2015

Lord-Otto wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

As to why we see many vamps in PvP, I can't say precisely. A bit of coolness factor, a bit of misinformation and sticking to the old ways, a bit of clever use of the abilities (nightblade + Clouding Swarm), and whatnot. Numbers would be interesting for sure.

I think it's easier. Vampires are *** OP for PVP. Improved sneaking speed? OP. More regen? OP Bats? OP. 33% extra mitigation when low life? OP

25% increased fire damage? JOKE when you have CP system, enchantments, battle spirit. No health regen? JOKE penalty for a JOKE stat. Be affected by fighters guild skills? The only real downside, but requires your enemy use that skills in a game were you have 10 slots.

No way you are 1 shoted by a fire trebuchet nowdays. Im not vampire, i sit at 25k life and 15k spell resist and when im hit i have more than 10k life left to have plenty of time to purgue or heal. But if you pretend go around with 20k life in cyro, no spell resist, not have any healing or puegue skill, and not use red CP in elemental resistances, then its another history.

I like how you dodged everything I said earlier... x'D
Alright, especially for you, my special little cookie:

Sneaking speed is not OP. When's the last time you dealt more damage because you could sneak faster into that crwod of enemies? xD
60 points more regen in my primary stat. OP as hell. [/sarcasm]
Bats. Discussable. It never kills, as it's a DoT. Healing has been cut. Clouding? I was under the same impression, until I got repeatedly telport striked by Nightblades over and over again while I had it active. OP, my wonderfully formed backside! xD
Extra mitigation is good, yes. For zero health regeneration? Kinda balanced here. Even with healers around, some free health periodically surely is a great thing.

CPs affect your enemy as well. 10% more resistance to elements for my vamp sorc against a non-vamp DK with same CP means that I will get hit around 15% harder by my enemy, wheras he/she will be hit 10 lighter. Difference stays at 25% percent. CP mitigation is situational.
And do you even know how many enchants with the corresponding increase in sustain/burst you had to sacrifice for a situational mitigation? More than you actually could!
No, I don't get onshot anymore. But it happened frequently pre-Imp, with the 40% weakness.

Sneaking faster helps me a lot, not during the fight but right before it when I'm setting up my situation from which I attack. It's extreme advantage which DOES affect the outcome uf that fight.

bowmanz607 · October 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

As to why we see many vamps in PvP, I can't say precisely. A bit of coolness factor, a bit of misinformation and sticking to the old ways, a bit of clever use of the abilities (nightblade + Clouding Swarm), and whatnot. Numbers would be interesting for sure.

I think it's easier. Vampires are *** OP for PVP. Improved sneaking speed? OP. More regen? OP Bats? OP. 33% extra mitigation when low life? OP

25% increased fire damage? JOKE when you have CP system, enchantments, battle spirit. No health regen? JOKE penalty for a JOKE stat. Be affected by fighters guild skills? The only real downside, but requires your enemy use that skills in a game were you have 10 slots.

No way you are 1 shoted by a fire trebuchet nowdays. Im not vampire, i sit at 25k life and 15k spell resist and when im hit i have more than 10k life left to have plenty of time to purgue or heal. But if you pretend go around with 20k life in cyro, no spell resist, not have any healing or puegue skill, and not use red CP in elemental resistances, then its another history.

I like how you dodged everything I said earlier... x'D
Alright, especially for you, my special little cookie:

Sneaking speed is not OP. When's the last time you dealt more damage because you could sneak faster into that crwod of enemies? xD
60 points more regen in my primary stat. OP as hell. [/sarcasm]
Bats. Discussable. It never kills, as it's a DoT. Healing has been cut. Clouding? I was under the same impression, until I got repeatedly telport striked by Nightblades over and over again while I had it active. OP, my wonderfully formed backside! xD
Extra mitigation is good, yes. For zero health regeneration? Kinda balanced here. Even with healers around, some free health periodically surely is a great thing.

CPs affect your enemy as well. 10% more resistance to elements for my vamp sorc against a non-vamp DK with same CP means that I will get hit around 15% harder by my enemy, wheras he/she will be hit 10 lighter. Difference stays at 25% percent. CP mitigation is situational.
And do you even know how many enchants with the corresponding increase in sustain/burst you had to sacrifice for a situational mitigation? More than you actually could!
No, I don't get onshot anymore. But it happened frequently pre-Imp, with the 40% weakness.

Sneaking faster helps me a lot, not during the fight but right before it when I'm setting up my situation from which I attack. It's extreme advantage which DOES affect the outcome uf that fight.

omg vampires are fast and sneaky!? who knew!

...come one now

bowmanz607 · October 2015

Lord-Otto wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

As to why we see many vamps in PvP, I can't say precisely. A bit of coolness factor, a bit of misinformation and sticking to the old ways, a bit of clever use of the abilities (nightblade + Clouding Swarm), and whatnot. Numbers would be interesting for sure.

I think it's easier. Vampires are *** OP for PVP. Improved sneaking speed? OP. More regen? OP Bats? OP. 33% extra mitigation when low life? OP

25% increased fire damage? JOKE when you have CP system, enchantments, battle spirit. No health regen? JOKE penalty for a JOKE stat. Be affected by fighters guild skills? The only real downside, but requires your enemy use that skills in a game were you have 10 slots.

No way you are 1 shoted by a fire trebuchet nowdays. Im not vampire, i sit at 25k life and 15k spell resist and when im hit i have more than 10k life left to have plenty of time to purgue or heal. But if you pretend go around with 20k life in cyro, no spell resist, not have any healing or puegue skill, and not use red CP in elemental resistances, then its another history.

I like how you dodged everything I said earlier... x'D
Alright, especially for you, my special little cookie:

Sneaking speed is not OP. When's the last time you dealt more damage because you could sneak faster into that crwod of enemies? xD
60 points more regen in my primary stat. OP as hell. [/sarcasm]
Bats. Discussable. It never kills, as it's a DoT. Healing has been cut. Clouding? I was under the same impression, until I got repeatedly telport striked by Nightblades over and over again while I had it active. OP, my wonderfully formed backside! xD
Extra mitigation is good, yes. For zero health regeneration? Kinda balanced here. Even with healers around, some free health periodically surely is a great thing.

CPs affect your enemy as well. 10% more resistance to elements for my vamp sorc against a non-vamp DK with same CP means that I will get hit around 15% harder by my enemy, wheras he/she will be hit 10 lighter. Difference stays at 25% percent. CP mitigation is situational.
And do you even know how many enchants with the corresponding increase in sustain/burst you had to sacrifice for a situational mitigation? More than you actually could!
No, I don't get onshot anymore. But it happened frequently pre-Imp, with the 40% weakness.

i would at that even when you have say 10% mitigation in elemental as a vamp, a person who uses elemental attacks will likley but points into increaseing their elemental damage. so say they put in 10% in raising elemental damage, now your still sitting at 25% mitigation from that player.

Birdovic · October 2015

Lord-Otto wrote: »

We vampires are mad because we have no bonuses. Under the current circumstances, I would be happy with vampirism doing those:
1. make your skin pale and eyes glowing
2. nothing
Would be way better. You sure haven't been onshot by CH ballistaes/trebuchets over and over again, I can tell. The ultimate is good, but there are way better ones, period. Mist Form won't save you and you surely are not causing damage with it. Undeath is good, but we pay with health regen and 10% more damage taken.

As to why we see many vamps in PvP, I can't say precisely. A bit of coolness factor, a bit of misinformation and sticking to the old ways, a bit of clever use of the abilities (nightblade + Clouding Swarm), and whatnot. Numbers would be interesting for sure.

Woah woah woah, stop talking for every vampire out there, including me. Its your opinion and your experience.

Im absolutely fine as vampire and I think the balance of Disadvantage/Advantage is fine,too , the fire resistance is no big deal and im not getting oneshot by CH siege stuff.
For the skills: Ultimate is not the best but definetly can help in different situations, mistform is a great lifesaver(the best i'd say)and only the drain ability needs to be redone, its just absolutely useless. Passives are great, too. Undeath can save you, the reduced health regen isnt even noticed(well I never missed it) and faster sneaking can also be a lifesaver, higher Stamregen/Magickaregen sure why not? The biggest downside still remains Fighters Guild silver bolt and the 10% dmg increase against undead, aside that I think I can survive a lot easier as Vampire than before I became one.

Sneaking speed is not OP. When's the last time you dealt more damage because you could sneak faster into that crwod of enemies? xD

Who would ever sneak into a crowd of enemies.

Bats. Discussable. It never kills, as it's a DoT. Healing has been cut. Clouding? I was under the same impression, until I got repeatedly telport striked by Nightblades over and over again while I had it active. OP, my wonderfully formed backside! xD

Clouding easily helps me killing off/confusing/spreading out a whole crowd when combined with fitting skills. Sure, its not as crazy as it used to be in the beginning, but well timed its still devastating.

@LBxFinalDeath
For WW: I dont see a reason why you would complain about slotting the WW morph^^
I mean you want to transform right? I think the 300 ult cost is okay, as WW is intended to be used as a group, and here you got to wait for everyone to be ready to transform. Solo WW is definetly not worth it since the attacked enemy can just outplay your WW form time frame if not overpowered(by a group of WW's) and take you out while you transform back to human form.
The 15% less stam regeneration is manageable I'd say, instead you could put some CP into stamreg if you dont want to transform anyway. The problem here is people were used to 15% extra stam for being a WW without even using it and not having any disadvantage.
I see this 15% stamreg as a little Bonus, not the main feature of the ult.

timidobserver · October 2015

Camo hunter is a good enough reason for me not to be a vamp. I would tolerate all of the other weaknesses.