Racial class imalance from a Nord's perspective of course

Nikkor · October 2015

I think everyone can agree there are a few classes that have gotten the short end of the stick. I think all races can do just fine but.

it pains me to look at an imperial, wood elf, or dark elf passives next to my Nord DPS

If I want to tank I'm good to go kind of. The 9 percent health is good. the 6 percent damage mitigation is ok. the health recovery is ok.

But why for the life of me is there not some sort of attacking passive for the mighty nord? Lets say they don't get the max stamina or health or boosted recovery.

they could easily have a 3 and 5 percent weapon damage bonus that would make sense

Zheg · October 2015

The damage mitigation is one of the best racials in the game. You make excellent tanks, and regardless of what you run - in pvp that flat 6% damage mitigation on top of the absurd base 50% mitigation is a godsend.

Sounds like you want the nord to be a dps race, but honestly, they're in very good shape. You won't be able to hit the min/max PVE numbers, but ZOS has changed racials/the meta so many times you'll never be able to pick a racial and say with confidence that you'll still have the best combo 2 months later.

For perspective, Argonians.

For more perspective, I rolled a khajiit sorc at launch back when there were softcaps and the racial had + crit damage. That changed like a month later, and my first character was severely gimped in terms of options.

Sorry, I know you want high dps racials, but nord is in a very good place right now imo.

dodgehopper_ESO · October 2015

Actually Nord is pretty awesome, and make great Tanks and Healers in particular. I'd even go so far as to say they're more tanky than an Imperial that everyone talks about. They're definitely tougher than Imperial, and they dont' hit as hard as an Imperial. Its a fair trade. The species with tails are the ones that have it the worst I think.

Zinaroth · October 2015

Zheg wrote: »

The damage mitigation is one of the best racials in the game. You make excellent tanks, and regardless of what you run - in pvp that flat 6% damage mitigation on top of the absurd base 50% mitigation is a godsend.

Sorry, I know you want high dps racials, but nord is in a very good place right now imo.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Actually Nord is pretty awesome, and make great Tanks and Healers in particular. I'd even go so far as to say they're more tanky than an Imperial that everyone talks about. They're definitely tougher than Imperial, and they dont' hit as hard as an Imperial. Its a fair trade. The species with tails are the ones that have it the worst I think.

You guys are very misinformed. 6% damage reduction is SHITE compared to extra rescource management when it comes to tanking. Every class that has some kind of rescource management in the form of more stamina/magicka or stamina/magicka regeneration makes better tanks than the Nord.

Also; Nord are good healers? What are you basing that on?

With the current meta in the game health and health regen are worth very little, even for tanks. You're better off with a racial rocking rescources.

This is just even more true when we look past the tanking role.

I play a Nord, luckily I can pull it off as a healer. If I had chosen any other class I would have had to reroll because of performance. The reason I can pull it off as healer is because it's rather easy to push out enough healing in this game if you know what you're doing. Doesn't mean Nords are good healers. Any race with anything magicka related would make a better healer.

Fact is, Nords are just as useless as Argonians. Anyone who say otherwise are misinformed and simply don't play at a high enough level to realize it. Sorry guys, don't mean to be an asinine ***, but that is common knowledge among high profile PvPers and PvEers.

Hope I didn't offend anyone, that was not my intent.

Darkeus · October 2015

remove the 6% dmg reduction and add 4% more wep dmg and 4% dmg reduction. and thats it.

BuggeX · October 2015

mimimmimim

if you want to min/max, reroll with a other race and stop flaming the forums

BuggeX · October 2015

Zinaroth wrote: »

Fact is, Nords are just as useless as Argonians. Anyone who say otherwise are misinformed and simply don't play at a high enough level to realize it. Sorry guys, don't mean to be an asinine ***, but that is common knowledge among high profile PvPers and PvEers.

and this is just pullshit, like saying CP = 1winbuttom.

dont listend to much on streamer "TOP" noobs

Zinaroth · October 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

mimimmimim

if you want to min/max, reroll with a other race and stop flaming the forums

Sure, can I have my achievements, research and alliance rank transfered since it isn't account wide?

Thanks for tuning in with your constructive input.

BuggeX · October 2015

Zinaroth wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

mimimmimim

if you want to min/max, reroll with a other race and stop flaming the forums

Sure, can I have my achievements, research and alliance rank transfered since it isn't account wide?

Thanks for tuning in with your constructive input.

so wath next? anybody want Classchange? and Alliance Change? wath else?

if they start with somthing, it will get worse and worse

AshTal · October 2015

Some races just suck outright
Argonian's - they can't even get the same health bonus as the Nords we get 6% and they get 9% and in my view cold resist is better than poison. Personally though I would take imperial 12% over both.
Healing received is a bit naff unless your a healer, and in Cyrodil it is nerfed to crap.
Lastly heal 6% when drinking a potion is just a joke.

Argonian's were told the Dev team knew their racials were utter s**t in the open beta, we got promised they would be improved and with the removal of the soft cap they got even worse. We are still waiting on better racials.

Zinaroth · October 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Fact is, Nords are just as useless as Argonians. Anyone who say otherwise are misinformed and simply don't play at a high enough level to realize it. Sorry guys, don't mean to be an asinine ***, but that is common knowledge among high profile PvPers and PvEers.

and this is just pullshit, like saying CP = 1winbuttom.

dont listend to much on streamer "TOP" noobs

Who says I got this from a streamer? You do realize I am in Hodor right? You do realize we have top end PvPers in Hodor right?

BuggeX wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

mimimmimim

if you want to min/max, reroll with a other race and stop flaming the forums

Sure, can I have my achievements, research and alliance rank transfered since it isn't account wide?

Thanks for tuning in with your constructive input.

so wath next? anybody want Classchange? and Alliance Change? wath else?

if they start with somthing, it will get worse and worse

I don't support class change but alliance change and race change should be a thing in this game yes.

If you have nothing more to add regarding what this topic really is about this discussion of ours is over though.

BuggeX wrote: »

stop flaming the forums

... To you too.

Teargrants · October 2015

I miss the good old days, back when Nords passive made them take 6%more damage. It really increased my immershuns, showing us all what macho man beasts they are. I for one believe we need to bring those glory days back.

Zinaroth · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

I miss the good old days, back when Nords passive made them take 6%more damage. It really increased my immershuns, showing us all what macho man beasts they are. I for one believe we need to bring those glory days back.

Those were the days, and I remember when posts were made on the forums back then people also claimed that Nords were QQing until it got fixed and all the disbelievers went awful silent.

Kind of relatable to the current situation, wouldn't you think?

hrothbern · October 2015

Nikkor wrote: »

I think everyone can agree there are a few classes that have gotten the short end of the stick. I think all races can do just fine but.
it pains me to look at an imperial, wood elf, or dark elf passives next to my Nord DPS
If I want to tank I'm good to go kind of. The 9 percent health is good. the 6 percent damage mitigation is ok. the health recovery is ok.

A Nord is hardy and rugged.
Jumps fearless into melee combat. A natural tanky berserker.

This 6% damage mitigation enables to be fearless. In Math words: you can profile your build towards more Spell/Weapon Damage on a solid base, if DPS is your desire. Although a fearless tanky warrior, almost invulnerable for Spells and with a lot of health, is the true nature of a Nord IMO. So typical tank or tanky healer.

My preference for the racials is:
1. the 6% damage mitigation
2. the 9% health pool (which really shines if you invest in health stat, NOT in damage)
3. the almost meaningless additional health regeneration (BTW to be nerfed in the PTS Orsinium: the base health regeneration, and therefore also the Nord racial)

For a glass canon DPS there are much better races. Take one of them ..... if DPS is what counts.

BuggeX · October 2015

define top end pvpers.

Setting up a 30+ Man Zerg and following a crown is not Topend.

Racials syns Change much when played with the right class.

Dunmmer may sux for a NB, but rocks on DK.

While Nord doesnt have syns for Templer, it has some for the DK.

Khajiit is strong on NBs but weak on DKs.

And then it also Change how you Play

Dunmer is a class race, it works perfect with DKs Magicka or Stamina (beside for PVP and the Need of WB)

Altmer is a Magicka Race, it sux on Stamina but works on any Magicka Class you want

Nord has some good Syns with Skills, for PVP and PVE.
Turn Undead sounds weak and ***, but since most pvpers are battswarm spamers with stealtornado, it rocks.
12% dmgreduction + 6% from Nord = 18%

and we can go even Feature, chocking Talons

Zinaroth · October 2015

hrothbern wrote: »

Nikkor wrote: »

I think everyone can agree there are a few classes that have gotten the short end of the stick. I think all races can do just fine but.
it pains me to look at an imperial, wood elf, or dark elf passives next to my Nord DPS
If I want to tank I'm good to go kind of. The 9 percent health is good. the 6 percent damage mitigation is ok. the health recovery is ok.

A Nord is hardy and rugged.
Jumps fearless into melee combat. A natural tanky berserker.

This 6% damage mitigation enables to be fearless. In Math words: you can profile your build towards more Spell/Weapon Damage on a solid base, if DPS is your desire. Although a fearless tanky berserker is the true nature of a Nord IMO.

My preference for the racials is:
1. the 6% damage mitigation
2. the 9% health pool (which really shines if you invest in health stat, NOT in damage)
3. the almost meaningless additional health regeneration (BTW to be nerfed in the PTS Orsinium: the base health regeneration, and therefore also the Nord racial)

A tank only needs around 25-28k health, everything past that is a waste, but I can agree that the health bonus isn't useless. The 6% damage reduction CAN be nice but it's still very inferior to many other the other tier 3 racials. What is this about base health regeneration being nerfed? Don't remember seeing that before? But the health regen passive is almost worthless. However the Orcs already has this as their tier 1 passive, but much better tier 2 and tier 3 passives and I think the Orc racials are pretty nice.

hrothbern · October 2015

Zinaroth wrote: »

A tank only needs around 25-28k health, everything past that is a waste, but I can agree that the health bonus isn't useless. The 6% damage reduction CAN be nice but it's still very inferior to many other the other tier 3 racials. What is this about base health regeneration being nerfed? Don't remember seeing that before? But the health regen passive is almost worthless. However the Orcs already has this as their tier 1 passive, but much better tier 2 and tier 3 passives and I think the Orc racials are pretty nice.

From the PTS patch notes 2.2.1:
Battle Leveling
Battle leveled player characters will now have more weapon and spell damage, and less health regeneration.
So... the HA passive Constitution and the Nord Racial Robust, both %increases on that nerfed Health regeneration, have less value.

yeahhhh..... another weakening of Heavy Armor and a weakening of the Nord !!!!

hrothbern · October 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

define top end pvpers.
Nord has some good Syns with Skills, for PVP and PVE.
Turn Undead sounds weak and ***, but since most pvpers are battswarm spamers with stealtornado, it rocks.
12% dmgreduction + 6% from Nord = 18%

@BuggeX,
The way you put it, the 12% and 6% add up to 18%...
So not 100%-(88%*94%)= 100%-82.7%=17.3%

?

BuggeX · October 2015

hrothbern wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

define top end pvpers.
Nord has some good Syns with Skills, for PVP and PVE.
Turn Undead sounds weak and ***, but since most pvpers are battswarm spamers with stealtornado, it rocks.
12% dmgreduction + 6% from Nord = 18%

@BuggeX,
The way you put it, the 12% and 6% add up to 18%...
So not 100%-(88%*94%)= 100%-82.7%=17.3%
?

no the value is lower than 18%. was to lazy to do actually math

Brasseurfb16_ESO · October 2015

Zinaroth wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Fact is, Nords are just as useless as Argonians. Anyone who say otherwise are misinformed and simply don't play at a high enough level to realize it. Sorry guys, don't mean to be an asinine ***, but that is common knowledge among high profile PvPers and PvEers.

and this is just pullshit, like saying CP = 1winbuttom.

dont listend to much on streamer "TOP" noobs

Who says I got this from a streamer? You do realize I am in Hodor right? You do realize we have top end PvPers in Hodor right?

BuggeX wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

mimimmimim

if you want to min/max, reroll with a other race and stop flaming the forums

Sure, can I have my achievements, research and alliance rank transfered since it isn't account wide?

Thanks for tuning in with your constructive input.

so wath next? anybody want Classchange? and Alliance Change? wath else?

if they start with somthing, it will get worse and worse

I don't support class change but alliance change and race change should be a thing in this game yes.

If you have nothing more to add regarding what this topic really is about this discussion of ours is over though.

BuggeX wrote: »

stop flaming the forums

... To you too.

Asmael · October 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

define top end pvpers.

Setting up a 30+ Man Zerg and following a crown is not Topend.

Racials syns Change much when played with the right class.

Dunmmer may sux for a NB, but rocks on DK.

While Nord doesnt have syns for Templer, it has some for the DK.

Khajiit is strong on NBs but weak on DKs.

And then it also Change how you Play

Dunmer is a class race, it works perfect with DKs Magicka or Stamina (beside for PVP and the Need of WB)

Altmer is a Magicka Race, it sux on Stamina but works on any Magicka Class you want

Nord has some good Syns with Skills, for PVP and PVE.
Turn Undead sounds weak and ***, but since most pvpers are battswarm spamers with stealtornado, it rocks.
12% dmgreduction + 6% from Nord = 18%

and we can go even Feature, chocking Talons

WHERE ARE THE ARGONIANS HERE?!

TELL ME!

...

No seriously tho, I'm running with 3 argonians, but 1 is a crafter, another a zombies grinder, and the last one a magicka templar that takes approximately 30 minutes to kill someone AFK thanks to the Battle spirit.

I can get closer to the Imperial City than you by swimming tho. Quite OP.

No matter the build / class / playstyle, I always see something better than my lizards. Talk about depressing, since it's my favorite race lore-wise.

Baragorath · October 2015

Nikkor wrote: »

they could easily have a 3 and 5 percent weapon damage bonus that would make sense

Agree @Nikkor.

@ZOS we are proud Nords not Trolls to have health recovery but we have strenght which should boost our weapon damage.

Darkeus · October 2015

all bulky races should have stronger wep atks and def, and all slim races should have fast atks and speed.

BuggeX · October 2015

Asmael wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

define top end pvpers.

Setting up a 30+ Man Zerg and following a crown is not Topend.

Racials syns Change much when played with the right class.

Dunmmer may sux for a NB, but rocks on DK.

While Nord doesnt have syns for Templer, it has some for the DK.

Khajiit is strong on NBs but weak on DKs.

And then it also Change how you Play

Dunmer is a class race, it works perfect with DKs Magicka or Stamina (beside for PVP and the Need of WB)

Altmer is a Magicka Race, it sux on Stamina but works on any Magicka Class you want

Nord has some good Syns with Skills, for PVP and PVE.
Turn Undead sounds weak and ***, but since most pvpers are battswarm spamers with stealtornado, it rocks.
12% dmgreduction + 6% from Nord = 18%

and we can go even Feature, chocking Talons

WHERE ARE THE ARGONIANS HERE?!

TELL ME!

...

No seriously tho, I'm running with 3 argonians, but 1 is a crafter, another a zombies grinder, and the last one a magicka templar that takes approximately 30 minutes to kill someone AFK thanks to the Battle spirit.

I can get closer to the Imperial City than you by swimming tho. Quite OP.

No matter the build / class / playstyle, I always see something better than my lizards. Talk about depressing, since it's my favorite race lore-wise.

you dont die that easy to poision arrows

G0ku · October 2015

imo they should just change to health reg passives for all races to max health, problem solved

And if I compare the dps of my argonian DK to that of my dunmer DK... I promise you the difference is quite a bit in that case. Anyway right now my dunmer is tanking and my argonian is stamina dps´ing. Just because your neighbour got a new lamborghini doesn´t make your porsche slow. Come back here if your race prevents you from finishing anything in this game.

Zinaroth · October 2015

G0ku wrote: »

Just because your neighbour got a new lamborghini doesn´t make your porsche slow. Come back here if your race prevents you from finishing anything in this game.

Brrrofski · October 2015

Zinaroth wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

mimimmimim

if you want to min/max, reroll with a other race and stop flaming the forums

Sure, can I have my achievements, research and alliance rank transfered since it isn't account wide?

Thanks for tuning in with your constructive input.

Well it was your bad choice on the first place to be fair...

Zheg · October 2015

Zinaroth wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Fact is, Nords are just as useless as Argonians. Anyone who say otherwise are misinformed and simply don't play at a high enough level to realize it. Sorry guys, don't mean to be an asinine ***, but that is common knowledge among high profile PvPers and PvEers.

and this is just pullshit, like saying CP = 1winbuttom.

dont listend to much on streamer "TOP" noobs

Who says I got this from a streamer? You do realize I am in Hodor right? You do realize we have top end PvPers in Hodor right?

BuggeX wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

mimimmimim

if you want to min/max, reroll with a other race and stop flaming the forums

Sure, can I have my achievements, research and alliance rank transfered since it isn't account wide?

Thanks for tuning in with your constructive input.

so wath next? anybody want Classchange? and Alliance Change? wath else?

if they start with somthing, it will get worse and worse

I don't support class change but alliance change and race change should be a thing in this game yes.

If you have nothing more to add regarding what this topic really is about this discussion of ours is over though.

BuggeX wrote: »

stop flaming the forums

... To you too.

The very fact that you feel the need to name drop the guild you're in as some attempt to prove you have more insight the rest, just proves the opposite. And while there may be top end PvPers in Hodor, if you interpret 6% dmg mitigation in the current pvp meta as useless, then you clearly are not one of them.

You can achieve the needed resource management for tanking quite easily through sets/builds regardless of your race, but the only set that provides a flat damage mitigation is cyrodiil's light and no tank would run that for obvious reasons. So, basically, nords get a unique racial that's actually useful and can still achieve the same necessary resource management as pretty much every other race, but you want more.

Whether nords should be a physical dps race or a tank race is debatable, what is not debatable is that nords excel as a tank race for pve, and for pretty much whatever you want to do in pvp (outside of magicka stacking sorcs that rely exclusively on shields).

A 6% weapon damage racial would NOT equate to a 6% flat damage boost racial. If another race had a flat 6% dmg increase in pvp, everyone would obviously see that as OP. And yet a racial that flat out mitigates 6% of damage is somehow bad. Smh.

vegeta0585b14_ESO · October 2015

Let's be real here. In the end it doesn't matter. Argonians have big sexy tails and thus win the race war.

templesus · October 2015

Swim speed
Enough said
You cant complain

Zinaroth · October 2015

Brrrofski wrote: »

Well it was your bad choice on the first place to be fair...

I created my character on launch day. Back then there was caps for stats. Back then Nord wasn't a bad racial.
Back then the game was different from now...

Zheg wrote: »

The very fact that you feel the need to name drop the guild you're in as some attempt to prove you have more insight the rest, just proves the opposite. And while there may be top end PvPers in Hodor, if you interpret 6% dmg mitigation in the current pvp meta as useless, then you clearly are not one of them.

You can achieve the needed resource management for tanking quite easily through sets/builds regardless of your race, but the only set that provides a flat damage mitigation is cyrodiil's light and no tank would run that for obvious reasons. So, basically, nords get a unique racial that's actually useful and can still achieve the same necessary resource management as pretty much every other race, but you want more.

Whether nords should be a physical dps race or a tank race is debatable, what is not debatable is that nords excel as a tank race for pve, and for pretty much whatever you want to do in pvp (outside of magicka stacking sorcs that rely exclusively on shields).

A 6% weapon damage racial would NOT equate to a 6% flat damage boost racial. If another race had a flat 6% dmg increase in pvp, everyone would obviously see that as OP. And yet a racial that flat out mitigates 6% of damage is somehow bad. Smh.

I was just reminding Bugge that he isn't speaking to some forum troll that has no clue, since he seemed to think that was the case. Sometimes he needs to be reminded that he isn't the only knowledgable person in this game.

As a tank you easily cap damage mitigation, rendering the tier 3 racial useless. Earlier in the thread I did say that the 6% reduced damage can be useful, so don't know why you're now saying I claimed it to be useless. But it is useless for tanks in PvE. Someone else brought up that the Nords are the best race for tanking, which isn't true. You get way further with more rescources and better rescource management.

Besides this topic isn't on whether or not you can make the Nord race work, you obviously can, I have, and many others, it's on whether or not it's on par with the other races, and it isn't, along with our egg brethren.

If the idea for ZOS was that Nords should be a "tanking race", then with the new statistics meta that emerged with 1.6 they should have given us magicka/stamina regeneration passives and a tier 3 talent that enhances block or something like that. I respect that the races are different and that some excel at some roles more than others, but currently the Nord doesn't excel at any role, not even tanking. Tanking might be the role best suited for them when looking at their racials, but as I said before, any race with rescource management passives will be better suited for the job.