What are the disadvantages of adding dueling, arena, or some kind of battleground mode?

Huggalump · October 2015

These three things are such obvious additions to a pvp focused MMO that it actually becomes curious that they aren't in ESO. Obviously ZoS knows that these are popular activities in MMOS and, in fact, there are some MMOS whose entire life is sustained by these instanced PVP options.

So is there a reason ZOS isn't adding them? For example, my best guess is that it would put more of a focus on class balance. Right now in world pvp and zergy pvp, balance isn't an issue. It's just the nature of battle that fights will not be even and you have to deal with it. Champion points lend hugely to this theory. Balance doesn't seem to be a concern. Life isn't fair and neither are ESO fights, so deal with it.

Is that it, or is there something else, or are these things actually coming sometime in the future? Personally, I would really enjoy instanced pvp, small scale pvp with my buddies.

DovresMalven · October 2015

The biggest one is everyone would become more aware of how imbalanced the classes are..

Kas · October 2015

DovresMalven wrote: »

The biggest one is everyone would become more aware of how imbalanced the classes are..

this. they'd have to start balancing for balance between classes and not for making several playstyles and builds viable. if you ask me, zos believes (i have no idea if they are right) that, in the long run, obfuscating balance by zergy or npc add situations makes the game more fun than 100% balanced classes.

what sounds negative, could also be said more positively: forcing the player to face many different situations leads to many builds having strengths in some of them and makes it less probable that there is the one go-to build to dominate everything.

mcurley · October 2015

DovresMalven wrote: »

The biggest one is everyone would become more aware of how imbalanced the classes are..

Would one class/build out perform every other class/build in every instance that could be implemented?

I think there would probably be one build that rocks 1v1 90% of the time but each build has a counter, right?

Also... wouldn't some builds be more effective in 2v2 than 1v1... or more effective in a 6v6 situation than a 2v2 situation?

I don't think we need perfect balance to have Arenas/Dueling.

Prodigy1971 · October 2015

This game is about rock, paper, scissors. Duelling would be insane and totally out of balance. Skill would be negligible.

Gern_Verkheart · October 2015

DovresMalven wrote: »

The biggest one is everyone would become more aware of how imbalanced the classes are..

This is an effective argument agianst them implementing 1v1, 2v2, etc type arenas (not necessarily one I agree with) but not really one that makes sense when used against them implementing "Battleground" type PvP instances. Those would be 10v10, (er I guess 12v12 since this is ESO) with NPC's and objectives to win that require more than just killing a lot of the other players. Like capture the flag or hold the points (little circles you have to stand in to capture, like how GW2's structured PvP works)

I think those kind of PvP modes could be very enjoyable with this game's class setup.

mcurley · October 2015

Prodigy1971 wrote: »

This game is about rock, paper, scissors. Duelling would be insane and totally out of balance. Skill would be negligible.

Diablo 2 dueling was about rock, paper, scissors too... skill was absolutely not negligible.

Prodigy1971 · October 2015

The next issue would be CPs... I have approx. 80 CPs and I wouldnt love to duel someone with 300+. And there are players with far more than that.

Otherwise... if someone doesnt want to use this feature... who cares. It would just show the most powerful class and everybody would reroll to fotm classes....

Soris · October 2015

This is no where near rock paper scissors game. I guess you never played a game like that where a mage kill warriors 100% of time and rogues kill mages and warriors kill rogues 100% of time...

There are just hard counters to some builds such as shield breaker and detect potions, but we surely know that set is out of balance currently and pots are nerfed too. Other than that, you can easily work around soft counters like a sorc uses his curse-deto combo instead projectiles or uses 1h/shield reflect against a dk with wings up, etc. I have dueled for over a year in this game and I've never faced with a build that completely locks out my build, counter my every move. There is no such a thing like that.

The only barrier behind arenas is the champion system itself and maybe recent nerfs to some classes. I'd die for arenas couple months ago, but for the current game, like if they say we're adding arenas tomorrow, that would be terrible idea.

Docmandu · October 2015

Huggalump wrote: »

These three things are such obvious additions to a pvp focused MMO that it actually becomes curious that they aren't in ESO. Obviously ZoS knows that these are popular activities in MMOS and, in fact, there are some MMOS whose entire life is sustained by these instanced PVP options.

May I then suggest you to go play those MMOs so ZOS can spend time on improving Cyrodiil and RvR content, instead of chasing your pipe dream. And us people that like this play style can enjoy a modern day MMO that provides this option (since there's only 2 to chose from, 3 if you include a 15 year old MMO)

Forestd16b14_ESO · October 2015

There is no reasons why ZOS hasn't add a PvP arena yet they just don't want it in cause they hate arenas for some reason.

PrinceRyzen · October 2015

Docmandu wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

These three things are such obvious additions to a pvp focused MMO that it actually becomes curious that they aren't in ESO. Obviously ZoS knows that these are popular activities in MMOS and, in fact, there are some MMOS whose entire life is sustained by these instanced PVP options.

May I then suggest you to go play those MMOs so ZOS can spend time on improving Cyrodiil and RvR content, instead of chasing your pipe dream. And us people that like this play style can enjoy a modern day MMO that provides this option (since there's only 2 to chose from, 3 if you include a 15 year old MMO)

I understand your concern but I believe this game has room for many different tastes as long as it's done right.

I just hope that if they do implement some small scale arena 1v1, 2v2, 4, 5... I just hope that it's done with a unique flair.

Cyrodiil is battling players to own an open world. IC is fighting to progress through PVE with stones on the line. I got hooked when I first set foot in Cyrodiils open world and saw how vastly different it was. Arena would also have to have meaning. KDR won't be enough

_adhyffbjjjf12 · October 2015

There are dozens of MMO that are battleground/arena orientated, why on earth would you want yet another one. There is also an opportunity cost involved, build arenas at the expensive of : more interesting and unique pvp/Pve e.g new factions/skill trees, morrowind, expanding on the objectives in cyro/ic, spellcafting, high quality housing, bounty hunting, the mystery of the dwarves. There's so much potential in the Ee universe ths can be explored before things like arenas and battlegrounds get dredged up again.

GreyHound501 · October 2015

Hmm I would love a areana betwewn alliances espically with the next dlc coming out I mean Orcs are more than likey to have one or two arenas in their homeland. But if they do add a arena I do hope they add ranjs like pvp has such as brawler,fighter,champion and such. Also I would love to watch fights have a spectators area for the arena so that I can watch my friends get pummel or pummel someone could even have betting :4

Shogunami · October 2015

I don't know if I can think of any disadvantages that would cause a problem. As things are looking right now PvP itself is kind of dead in this game and needs to be revitalized.

If they don't add "battlegrounds" or arenas they should at least implement a scaled down version of Cyrodiil with a couple of hundred players MAX in the entire campaign. Personally, I'd like to see some way of PvPing where I can meet and fight new players every day.

Hyssia · October 2015

Huggalump wrote: »

Right now in world pvp and zergy pvp, balance isn't an issue.

Stopped reading after this

KundaliniHero · October 2015

Shogunami wrote: »

I don't know if I can think of any disadvantages that would cause a problem. As things are looking right now PvP itself is kind of dead in this game and needs to be revitalized.

If they don't add "battlegrounds" or arenas they should at least implement a scaled down version of Cyrodiil with a couple of hundred players MAX in the entire campaign. Personally, I'd like to see some way of PvPing where I can meet and fight new players every day.

To this day I dont understand why Zos has thus far refused to incorporate a dueling system or even a Arena where you can do 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 with leader boards etc. seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to implement. I think ZOS was hoping that IC would add that extra dimension to PVP. The arena area on the right server specifically lets people conduct cross faction close quarters combat, although it has its lulls, i've found it to be pretty consistent action wise. Some night's we'll even conduct are own duels on the steps in front of the arena. I still think they should remove the door on the arena that would definitely help increase the action.

Overall though, the other areas of IC have kinda failed, its pretty much turned into a zerg or gank fest with very little inbetween. Due to the limited rewards of IC and the failure to incorporate the older armor sets (which are more effective imo) its become a factory for essentially buying mats because lets face it out side of the respective agility, willpower, endurance sets everything else is situational and mostly junk. Granted people have said good things about the phoenix set and the shieldbreaker set, but like I said: situational. What IC has done effectively is generate a long train of tears (nightblade cloak) and essentially completely isolated itself from Cyrodil as to make both completely separate entities with no synergy.

twistedmonk · October 2015

they demo's a 3v3v3 arena during beta, they removed it...GG

here's the thing...this is not a fair pvp system...its intentional that players are unequal by design therefore people who play a lot have advantages over those that do not.

if they wanted to make a competitive pvp game...they are doing it all wrong

Artis · October 2015

1. If they cared about not showing that classes are imbalanced, they wouldn't introduce a pve arena in Orsinium. People can and will compare points from those different class-specific leaderboards.
2. If they add battlegrounds/arenas, Cyrodiil will die and they don't want that. I mean, come on, participate in PvP where at least numbers are balanced and much less lag because there's less players? Please, give me two.