Re: Hacking - Should we add Personal Bank Logs and/or Sent Mail Box?

Cazzy · October 2015

I'd like to consider this poll as a serious discussion regarding hacking of player accounts.

Quite a few of you know now that my account (PS4, EU) was hacked and everything I had every saved, won, found, crafted and bought was stolen. Not only from my character's personal bank but all my alts too. I was cleared out of all green, blue, purple, orange items as well as maps, crafting mats (including dwemer frames, malachite shards and daedra hearts) and had all my 30,000 gold taken.

Bethesda Softworks have passed this on to an investigation team to hopefully find the person.

What I would like to see in the future is a bank log, much like what the guild's have, or even a Sent Mail box. I feel this would be easier to track some hackers and prevent future accounts being compromised.

ZoS have been brilliant so far and hopefully I will continue to have a positive experience with them while they investigate.

(Sidenote: Having been mugged and assaulted in real life I can honestly say there are parallels in experience and emotion. I'm writing an article about it to submit to some magazines and would like to hear any suggestions you may have to preventing the hackers and consequences you feel justify the crime. Thanks!)

Cazzy · October 2015

Yes

I'm really hoping for feedback and more responses

This isn't just about my experience, nor just another post complaining about bugs. This is for the safety of accounts

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

No

While I sympathize with your unfortunate experiences, I don't foresee this being the answer. I believe ZOS can see more than we can so one side is that this idea exists at a higher level.

Regarding being hacked...and having been hacked in another game not on console I've found that being hacked is the wrong term. I don't know your situation so I'm only speculating here but I believe it more accurately stated as mismanagement.

In a lot of cases (with what I do during the day) and my gaming habits we as humans often times sign up for things and use log-ins for things in many different places. People close to us as well as complete strangers can typically guess and access our gaming log in info because honestly on Xbox Live and PSN we have given out 50% of the login info many times.

The guessing of a password isn't necessarily a result of being hacked. Maybe it's just that we've filled out too many beta apps, signed up for too many website accounts, etc.

Once a person begins using multiple sites and forums and then utilize signatures it's pretty basic to guess someone's password, log in when you're offline cause they can see if you're online or offline on PSN....clean you out and log off.

It happened to me on WoW and I later realized my hotmail account somehow was being accessed in another country.
This is over 6 years ago so technology definitely allows for more useful info finding but just google your commonly used username or look on Twitter, Facebook, gaming sites and forums

Think of how many opportunities you've signed up for using the same info and/or who are ppl close to you that may have access as there is a level of trust.

I'm not saying someone didn't hack you specifically but only suggesting to be mindful so it doesn't happen to you again but hopefully for anyone reading this...maybe it offers insight to behaviors they may exhibit which could make them a target

And as always...don't buy gold, don't sale virtual items outside the games and be careful about signing up or being required to log into third party sites for games you play. lol guild sites which is exactly how I was compromised in WoW which later compromised my email and then they started after other personal info.

If you have other suspicions don't hesitate to look into indetity theft services provided by a reputable insurance carrier.
Your life matters.

Happy gaming

Edit: AND don't advertise yourself as a target in signatures anywhere...again things if you've been compromised will continue after you sending emails, real mail, and even phone calls or send gaming friend and guild invites.

Makkir · October 2015

Don't buy gold

Cazzy · October 2015

Yes

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

While I sympathize with your unfortunate experiences, I don't foresee this being the answer. I believe ZOS can see more than we can so one side is that this idea exists at a higher level.

Regarding being hacked...and having been hacked in another game not on console I've found that being hacked is the wrong term. I don't know your situation so I'm only speculating here but I believe it more accurately stated as mismanagement.

In a lot of cases (with what I do during the day) and my gaming habits we as humans often times sign up for things and use log-ins for things in many different places. People close to us as well as complete strangers can typically guess and access our gaming log in info because honestly on Xbox Live and PSN we have given out 50% of the login info many times.

The guessing of a password isn't necessarily a result of being hacked. Maybe it's just that we've filled out too many beta apps, signed up for too many website accounts, etc.

Once a person begins using multiple sites and forums and then utilize signatures it's pretty basic to guess someone's password, log in when you're offline cause they can see if you're online or offline on PSN....clean you out and log off.

It happened to me on WoW and I later realized my hotmail account somehow was being accessed in another country.
This is over 6 years ago so technology definitely allows for more useful info finding but just google your commonly used username or look on Twitter, Facebook, gaming sites and forums

Think of how many opportunities you've signed up for using the same info and/or who are ppl close to you that may have access as there is a level of trust.

I'm not saying someone didn't hack you specifically but only suggesting to be mindful so it doesn't happen to you again but hopefully for anyone reading this...maybe it offers insight to behaviors they may exhibit which could make them a target

And as always...don't buy gold, don't sale virtual items outside the games and be careful about signing up or being required to log into third party sites for games you play. lol guild sites which is exactly how I was compromised in WoW which later compromised my email and then they started after other personal info.

If you have other suspicions don't hesitate to look into indetity theft services provided by a reputable insurance carrier.
Your life matters.

Happy gaming

Yeah that makes a lot of sense although I'm still waiting to see what the investigation team find out. I do use different passwords for a lot of things and I'm pretty stumped how my ESO account was accessed and stolen from tbh. Considering I'm on console I thought it would be more difficult to achieve.

Also, to clarify I don't buy anything other than Crowns using real money. Everything I bought in-game was via character gold through a guild merchant or blacksmith

Normally I'd hold my hands up if I think I've done something iffy or something unsafe, but I'm very careful not to. Life experience have made me very cautious. Whoever did this did so because they knew what they're doing and I happened to be there at the time. That's my belief, anyway

Tandor · October 2015

No

I think it would be an unwarranted over-reaction to what would appear to be an extremely rare occurrence judging by the few reports of compromised accounts on this forum since the game was launched. I sympathise with anyone whose account is compromised through no fault of their own, but I see no evidence of widespread account fraud necessitating remedial measures such as that proposed by the OP.

Incidentally, I know nothing about consoles, but do they not have anything like the account protection system that the PC version offers in this game whereby logging in on an unrecognised computer results in the account being locked out until an emailed code has been entered? I'm sure that has played an important role in relation to account security for the PC players and perhaps some additional security protection is required for the console players if the existing arrangements are inadequate, although the OP's case does seem to be an isolated one.

Cazzy · October 2015

Yes

Tandor wrote: »

I think it would be an unwarranted over-reaction to what would appear to be an extremely rare occurrence judging by the few reports of compromised accounts on this forum since the game was launched. I sympathise with anyone whose account is compromised through no fault of their own, but I see no evidence of widespread account fraud necessitating remedial measures such as that proposed by the OP.

Can I ask if you believe there are negative consequences to having a log or Sent Mail Box?

Tandor · October 2015

No

Cazzy wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I think it would be an unwarranted over-reaction to what would appear to be an extremely rare occurrence judging by the few reports of compromised accounts on this forum since the game was launched. I sympathise with anyone whose account is compromised through no fault of their own, but I see no evidence of widespread account fraud necessitating remedial measures such as that proposed by the OP.

Can I ask if you believe there are negative consequences to having a log or Sent Mail Box?

Diversion of developer resources and potential slowing down of game performance are possible adverse consequences. Any such information would have to be stored server-side to avoid exploits and that would create quite a lot of additional data transfer between player and server. I can see a wholly separate case for having a sent mail box purely for practical reasons, but I doubt there'd be a lot of demand for a bank log - although I could be wrong. Also, I'm unclear without clarification from ZOS (which they're unlikely to give as it relates to their security measures which they'd understandably rather not disclose) whether all bank interaction is already covered at their end by their data logs.

Cazzy · October 2015

Yes

Tandor wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I think it would be an unwarranted over-reaction to what would appear to be an extremely rare occurrence judging by the few reports of compromised accounts on this forum since the game was launched. I sympathise with anyone whose account is compromised through no fault of their own, but I see no evidence of widespread account fraud necessitating remedial measures such as that proposed by the OP.

Can I ask if you believe there are negative consequences to having a log or Sent Mail Box?

Diversion of developer resources and potential slowing down of game performance are possible adverse consequences. I can see a wholly separate case for having a sent mail box purely for practical reasons, but I doubt there'd be a lot of demand for a bank log - although I could be wrong. Also, I'm unclear without clarification from ZOS (which they're unlikely to give as it relates to their security measures which they'd understandably rather not disclose) whether all bank interaction is already covered at their end by their data logs.

I wonder the exact same thing

I was asked to provide a list of my missing items which made me think they had no way to find out. I could be wrong though.

I also see your point about diverting resources better spent to fixing other issues. I definitely agree that other things take priority right now

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

No

They can see more than we can but just to be safe they have to be careful not to give out any info and work with what you can give them. If you felt they couldn't see anything unless you told them...that's the point.

Just you writing this thread could give a criminal missing details in order to compromise an account. For us...less is best as if you had this, once they logged in they would see every detail of your habits and now see who and how you interact with others. Now instead of one account they have many more to go after and can do so without you knowing cause then they'd mimic you.

Less is best in this scenario

Tandor · October 2015

No

Cazzy wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I think it would be an unwarranted over-reaction to what would appear to be an extremely rare occurrence judging by the few reports of compromised accounts on this forum since the game was launched. I sympathise with anyone whose account is compromised through no fault of their own, but I see no evidence of widespread account fraud necessitating remedial measures such as that proposed by the OP.

Can I ask if you believe there are negative consequences to having a log or Sent Mail Box?

Diversion of developer resources and potential slowing down of game performance are possible adverse consequences. I can see a wholly separate case for having a sent mail box purely for practical reasons, but I doubt there'd be a lot of demand for a bank log - although I could be wrong. Also, I'm unclear without clarification from ZOS (which they're unlikely to give as it relates to their security measures which they'd understandably rather not disclose) whether all bank interaction is already covered at their end by their data logs.

I wonder the exact same thing I was asked to provide a list of my missing items which made me think they had no way to find out. I could be wrong though.

I also see your point about diverting resources better spent to fixing other issues. I definitely agree that other things take priority right now

Apologies for having edited my last post while you were replying to it.

While it's possible that ZOS asked you for a list of items taken because they didn't have that information in their logs, it's also possible they were seeking to establish which items in their log you had lost (as only some were taken seemingly), as well as making sure your claim was a genuine one and that you weren't claiming for the loss of stuff you never had according to their records! In all such circumstances, the first question to any claimant will undoubtedly be "what have you lost?".

Cazzy · October 2015

Yes

Tandor wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I think it would be an unwarranted over-reaction to what would appear to be an extremely rare occurrence judging by the few reports of compromised accounts on this forum since the game was launched. I sympathise with anyone whose account is compromised through no fault of their own, but I see no evidence of widespread account fraud necessitating remedial measures such as that proposed by the OP.

Can I ask if you believe there are negative consequences to having a log or Sent Mail Box?

Diversion of developer resources and potential slowing down of game performance are possible adverse consequences. I can see a wholly separate case for having a sent mail box purely for practical reasons, but I doubt there'd be a lot of demand for a bank log - although I could be wrong. Also, I'm unclear without clarification from ZOS (which they're unlikely to give as it relates to their security measures which they'd understandably rather not disclose) whether all bank interaction is already covered at their end by their data logs.

I wonder the exact same thing I was asked to provide a list of my missing items which made me think they had no way to find out. I could be wrong though.

I also see your point about diverting resources better spent to fixing other issues. I definitely agree that other things take priority right now

Apologies for having edited my last post while you were replying to it.

While it's possible that ZOS asked you for a list of items taken because they didn't have that information in their logs, it's also possible they were seeking to establish which items in their log you had lost (as only some were taken seemingly), as well as making sure your claim was a genuine one and that you weren't claiming for the loss of stuff you never had according to their records! In all such circumstances, the first question to any claimant will undoubtedly be "what have you lost?".

That's true

It's why I'd like a way to know what was in there without having to simply remember

I may start making a list from now on. All valuables and where they're kept

Maybe that's a better solution.

@NewBlacksmurf, I hadn't considered that

I've just been too eager to fight back. You're right, though.

Elf_Boy · October 2015

Yes

I suspect ZOS already has logs to use.

Us having such a log is no deterrent or remedy for theft.

I voted yes because I like the idea of having more information available and it would be helpful if I were trying to remember what I did with something.

PinoZino · October 2015

No

No need for.

A- ZOS has probably already a kind of log system
B- It doesn't prevent account hacking
C- Your account wasn't hacked. You probably just used an easy to guess password and asked for it.

Cazzy · October 2015

Yes

PinoZino wrote: »

No need for.

A- ZOS has probably already a kind of log system
B- It doesn't prevent account hacking
C- Your account wasn't hacked. You probably just used an easy to guess password and asked for it.

I asked for it?! How dare you

I didn't use an easy to use password. Don't assume.

PinoZino · October 2015

No

Cazzy wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

No need for.

A- ZOS has probably already a kind of log system
B- It doesn't prevent account hacking
C- Your account wasn't hacked. You probably just used an easy to guess password and asked for it.

I asked for it?! How dare you I didn't use an easy to use password. Don't assume.

Then they can't guess your password.
You can't have both worlds.

Or do you suggest that someone hacked your complete computer? In that case, I wouldn't worry about losing some virtual gold and stuff but more important things.

Cazzy · October 2015

Yes

Nobody knows how it was accessed. It's still being investigated. I am not to blame for this. I didn't chose a "123" password and I didn't invite someone in to steal everything. But somehow it has happened. If they found my password then there was a way they did it. I am not an expert and neither are you. Target the person who did it not the victim.

PinoZino · October 2015

No

Cazzy wrote: »

Nobody knows how it was accessed. It's still being investigated. I am not to blame for this. I didn't chose a "123" password and I didn't invite someone in to steal everything. But somehow it has happened. If they found my password then there was a way they did it. I am not an expert and neither are you. Target the person who did it not the victim.

Once again, if you didn't use a '123' password - and I believe you - then they can't have access to your account, unless your computer was hacked. Another possibility is that someone else just used your computer - but odds are low they would start ESO, go to your bank and steal your stuff.

Anyway they have to mail your stuff and gold to another mail address, so there would be definitely a trace.

More likely is that your account wasn't hacked at all. Some other people testified that stuff suddenly disappeared from their bank inventory.

Elf_Boy · October 2015

Yes

PinoZino wrote: »

No need for.

A- ZOS has probably already a kind of log system
B- It doesn't prevent account hacking
C- Your account wasn't hacked. You probably just used an easy to guess password and asked for it.

Blaming the victim in ESO of a, bug, hack, or random fluctuation the universe, is no more an ethical or the right thing to do then to blame any victim of any crime in the real world. Sadly all too common.

There are some good articles out in the web, wiki and other places. I do not want to link them due to strong (nsfw) language and content/examples.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Re: Hacking - Should we add Personal Bank Logs and/or Sent Mail Box?

Re: Hacking - Should we add Personal Bank Logs and/or Sent Mail Box? 26 votes